i'm wondering what advice people have about starting a gallery at deviant art?  is it a good idea?  and if i do, should i watermark my works there?  i've recently prepared all my chosen gallery pics, so i do have watermarked versions for all of them. 

and are there any other sites people would suggest posting on?  i'd love some suggestions.

The only other gallery I post to is on my own site. However, due to the increase in art theft - no matter where you post your art work - i suggest you watermark it. And be careful of posting to sites like Myspace - I've heard that anything you post there becomes public property so to speak.

I've been a long time member (with no gallery) at Deviant Art and recently I was about to start a gallery.  This led tot he reading of their TOS.  They claim rights to whatever you post for their own promotional and publication.

If they decide they want to sell mouse pads with your pic on it, they have that covered in their TOS.

At least this was my understanding.  I say avoid them like the plague or only upload low rez pics.

In the end, if you do cool, good stuff, you'll eventually see it stolen and posted elsewhere, no matter where you post (I've found stuff of mine that was only ever posted and Renderosity).  That's one thing.  The real thing I have issue with is someone trying to make money off of what I do.  If I can't, then sure as hell no one else should!!

I don't know the technicalities of MySpace, but again, easy to steal from.

In the end, though, the real question is why do you want to post?  If you want to gather interest in your work or hopefully attract clients, then MySpace and Deviant Art are almost required!

Still, if you do, watermark and lowrez it!

(This is my advice, I am not a lawyer or trained professional, but I could play one on TV if the money was good, the director was patient and I didn't have to wear a funny costume.)

I know I'm wrong about this, but I'd love to know how. Most of the stuff I find there is hand-drawn stuff, of varying quality, a lot of it done on notbook paper..;). I've never been able to search on artist name, so I havent' found much poser stuff (in fact none at all). But with 15 million (their number) pictures, you'd think there'd be a little more ability to find things..I'm sure there's good stuff there, I just can't find it.

I must confess I go to other art sites and find...the same pictures I find here!..;) so there's no important reason (other than the ones previously stated) not to. Do what feels right. There'll always be a pixel lit in the window here for you..;)

@pakled...

I totally agree if you were referring to Deviant Art.
I've never been able to figure out how to navigate that site!
I've had a membership there for several years and I could count the number of times I've actually visited it without even removing my shoes!

thanks for all of the responses.  i read the t.o.s. at deviant art for other reasons last night, and i definitely didn't like the following section

Quote - License To Use Artist Materials. As and when Artist Materials are uploaded to the deviantART Site(s), Artist grants to deviantART a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to do the following things during the Term:... the right to sublicense to any other person or company any of the licensed rights in the Artist Materials, or any part of them, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

i don't believe that this is found in most of the common poser sites (at least, not the ones whose t.o.s. materials i viewed last night).  i know myspace has similar terms.  and personally, while lots of the rights i can see them needing to automatically make thumbnails, to make backups, and other aspects that are basically integral to running a site, i don't see any need for them to be able to sublicense all those rights to another entity. 

but you would suggest watermarking work posted here?  i admit i thought about it, since i already knew this was a  theft hotspot.  but i also don't want to seem presumptuous, and many artists more talented than i don't watermark their work here.  in fact, that includes some who are also denizens of cgsociety and contributors to exotique 2.    so let's turn it around, who has a watermarked works and who doesn't?  and why?

i just want to add that i'm not rabid on this topic.  i understand that the web is a data distribution medium, not a broadcast one.  but as much as i know how fluid information flow is now, i don't want to lose attribution.  i very strongly believe in credit where credit is due, and if people are going to use my work without my name it better be a paid job.

I don't watermark my pics and I've found them stolen.  Yet, I still don't watermark.

Why?

Hmmm...

Well, I've been meaning to do a little signature thing and when I find something I like that doesn't detract, I will probably apply it to all my works.

In the end, what I post here I post for people to enjoy.  I am very particular about a lot of things in my pics, I'll spend hours just doing colour balance in many cases.  I don't want to go and ruin that with a gaudy watermark.

On the other hand, if someone re-posts a pic of mine on another site, I'm not really out any money, so I'm not overly protective.  I'd like credit and that is why I'm designing a signature.  Still, I haven't had a lot of time lately to create any art, let alone design a sig that I like.

If I was running a pay site where I was posting pics that people had to pay a membership to see (like a comic or an adult site), then I would vehemently go after those who stole my pics.

The opposite holds true aswell, if I find someone selling what I am giving away for free, I would also make a pretty big fuss.

As it is, I'm not too concerned.  Right now the worst that could happen is some talentless idiot tries to claim credit for my work.  In the end he/she will be exposed and I will not have lost or gained anything.

they will definitely steal anything ya post at deviant, no matter how good or bad it is. one of my pals has only posted one lo-res image there, and it's already on at least one other site. they gave him credit, so it's not as bad as the rest of 'em, who will steal yer images, erase the sigs, then say they did 'em.

mmm.  i already have a signature on my works.   that was one of the things i tasked myself before posting here.  as well as a logo for watermarking.  when i get home, i'll post a watermarked version and see what you think.  i can say that the reason i haven't actually used any of my watermarked versions is it does rankle to spend all that time on an image then smack a big watermark on it (and if it's not big, it's not effective).  i take a lot longer than average, i think.  hmmmmm.  you know what might be even better to add?  a copyright and date mark.  because i think i'm more worried that someone higher profile will use an idea and then my work will be seen as the derivative one.  i've actually had that happen when i did awful work that wasn't even very public some years ago, when i was a grad student.  i'm not upset about it, but if i start using my gallery as a portfolio (not the one here, but on the site i'm in the process of building), i want it known that my work isn't just derivative. 

Congrats on the new site cobalt - its a rather interesting endevour I must admit. With all this talk of watermarking images - I add this question:

Are there any free programs out there for watermarking or photoshop plug-ins?

Quote - I know I'm wrong about this, but I'd love to know how. Most of the stuff I find there is hand-drawn stuff, of varying quality, a lot of it done on notbook paper..;). I've never been able to search on artist name, so I havent' found much poser stuff (in fact none at all). But with 15 million (their number) pictures, you'd think there'd be a little more ability to find things..I'm sure there's good stuff there, I just can't find it.

Click on browse just above where the images are displayed, there's a button called Categories click on it, on the drop down menu that appears, click on Digital Art then on 3-Dimensional Art and finally on Characters not all is Poser, but there's lots in there...  And if once you're in Characters if you select**  Females**, there's even more Poser renders in there, go figure...  ;)

Actually, the terms on MySpace are amongst the best anywhere on the net with regard to respecting the original copyright holder.

Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.

1. MySpace.com does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the MySpace Services. After posting your Content to the MySpace Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the MySpace Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the MySpace Services.
2. Without this license, MySpace.com would be unable to provide the MySpace Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, MySpace.com would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, MySpace.com could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to MySpace.com is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to MySpace.com), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that MySpace.com is not required to pay you for the use on the MySpace Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that MySpace.com is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the MySpace Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the MySpace Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the MySpace Services. The license does not grant MySpace.com the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant MySpace.com the right to distribute your Content outside of the MySpace Services.

This does not mean that your work won't be stolen by MySpace users. At least the MySpace terms don't allow them to steal it. I've looked at a lot of terms of service and this is one of the few that outright acknowledges the rights of the copyright holder.

Speaking of watermarks.. I belong to another forum where soem people are lauded for their ability to seamlessly remove watermarks from photos (not renders) in order to better share all those "GettyImages"-splattered pics of celebrities.

So is that ok? No, I guess it's not.

Have I downloaded some of those "cleaned" pictures? Sure I have. The main thing is that I use them for my own personal pleasure (around 5600 pictures of ...er.. that subject) and I'm not selling them or distributing them. But I do hate watermarks. They're annoying on photos and IMO They totally destroy an otherwise beautiful render if a huge sig is placed across it afterwards.

It's tricky though. I fully understand the reason for wanting to protect your hard work. But by doing so, you're effectively destroying the same work. It's a catch 22 I guess :(

As for the Getty Images.. if I could subscribe to pictures of ONE actor only, I wouldn't mind paying for it.. but since I can't...

I've never liked watermarks; they turn an otherwise beautiful picture into a background for the artists' name. A signature doesn't hurt, but having a name go from one border to the other just turns me off the whole thing.

There are programs out there that can encode additional information into jpg files. You can even hide one picture another (according to the article I read). I think there's a way to encode your name in the picture as data, rather than slapping 'eat at Joes' across it...sigh..;) Good way to find the sneak-theives who take credit where it's not due.

I avoid stolen pictures by producing mediocre art..;) j/k..;)

@Lucie -yer a darlin'. Now if I could make it search on artist name..;)

From MySpace T.O.S.
"..you hereby grant to MySpace.com a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the MySpace Services."
" The license you grant to MySpace.com is... sublicensable (so that MySpace.com is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the MySpace Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the MySpace Services are global in reach)." 

the language has notably changed recently. this was a topic of discussion not long ago, and it's a lot different than it was then.  that said, the meaning is still the same.  they can modify, copy and distribute your work worldwide and sublicense that right to other entities.  and there's absolutely no mention of medium. it now says reasons for this right, but that's spin not actual clarification of terms.

personally, i'm not comfortable giving unfettered distribution, reproduction and display rights, along with the ability to sublicense those rights to anyone else they want, to an individual or company that has made billions in an industry renowned for treating artists badly.   i don't see how them explicitly stating you can subsequently use the content you post however you like is a good thing.  frankly, i think it assumes a position of power and lays the ground work for being able to revoke that right.  most sites don't say it because they don't have to: it's the whole point of the limited, non-exclusive license.

i definitely don't like watermarking my own work in general, though i rarely mind it in others.  actually, i think it kind of made a couple of my pieces stronger and more graphic.

so, are there any galleries people would suggest?  places where people have had good experiences, or places i might not have heard of here?  something outside of runtime dna, poserpros, and here?  oh, and is it worth it to start a non-erotic gallery at the site that speaks not its name?

Cobaltdream:  Don't forget to read the second paragraph of the MySpace terms. They explain what they mean by "use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the MySpace Services."

if by that you mean the first paragraph, (because the second doesn't deal with that at all but instead details what rules you must abide by), and you mean
"The services offered by MySpace.com ("Myspace.com" or "we") include the MySpace.com website (the "MySpace Website"), the MySpace.com Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by MySpace.com in connection with the MySpace Website (collectively, the "MySpace Services"). "
then that would easily include, for instance television broadcasts associated with MySpace.com, radio broadcasts, promotional materials, basically "any... content...connect[ed] with the MySpace Website."  that's anything.  and that's not including sublicensing, which has zero restrictions or definitions in that contract.  it states an intention, not defines parameters.

I was referring to paragraph 2, in the gagnonrich post, where the terms explain "without the right to modify Member Content, MySpace.com would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements..."

The last two sentences are also different from most website galleries.

The license terminates when the user leaves MySpace.
The license does not allow MySpace the right to sell or distribute content out of MySpace.
There's nothing saying MySpace can sublicense your work  Until MySpace owns TV and radio stations (Rupert Murdoch owns MySpace, but not the other way around), the license does not allow the speculated usage. Should that ever happen in the future, delete your membership and they no longer have the right for such usage.

If you can find an online gallery with better terms, post them here. From reading the terms posted in this message, the MySpace terms aren't bad compared to what else is out there. The Renderosity terms are good.

Here's devianart's terms (and there's much worse than this):
"deviantART does not claim ownership rights in Your Content. For the sole purpose of enabling us to make your Content available through the Service, you grant to deviantART a non-exclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce, distribute, re-format, store, prepare derivative works based on, and publicly display and perform Your Content. Please note that when you upload Content, you allow third parties to copy, distribute and display your Content."

i hate this new interface.  i just lost a 3rd post with this stupid wysiwyg editor.  and it's always kicking back errors.

first off, sublicensing is allowed.  i quoted it in my post, and it's right there in the original posting of terms.  and that doesn't mean they have to own another company.   all they have to do is subcontract with them- as it explicitly states. 

second, i just checked here, theartdoor, runtimedna, poserpros, daz and artzone.  none of them claim those rights on your work except daz, which says it has to credit you.  artzone mentions that members have to adhere to the dmca, and at least one explicitly says that it's against the law to download and distribute, etc. posted content.   none at all mention sublicensing.  the only two unclear ones i know of are  faeriewylde and cgportolios (yeah, right, like i could post there, snort).  i couldn't find their terms regarding posted works  at all.

third, by posting anything on the internet that isn't purely accessible to you, you "allow third parties to copy, distribute and display" whatever you posted or uploaded.    but i agree that the deviant art t.o.s. presents many potential problems, and won't post there.

but i didn't want to debate service terms.  i wanted to hear about galleries that weren't the big 4 or 5.  or even feedback on those galleries.   the only one i can think of off the top of my head is theartdoor, but i know there are others out there.