Just wanted everyone to know or at least everyone who was planning on upgrading to vista and that it will not support OpenGL.

I plan on waiting until at least SP2 before moving over to Vista.  It's still pretty buggy and neither Poser nor Vue will work with it as it is right now.

I saw an article today that recommended not upgrading, but only using vista on a new machine that comes with it already installed. the price seems to range from $99 u.s. to $400 or more, for various versions.

XP64 works fine, no plans to change anyway for a year at least.

I've been using XP 64 for about a year with an Nvidea Quadro 3450 which is Open GL.  Works good.  Already running the 64 bit version of Vue on it, although Vue 6 is still only pre-release.  Also using the 64 bit version of Cinema 4D R10, but sadly that product has an export problem for now so I have to use the 32 bit version for exports.  Poser 6 is also running ok under it.  

Vista is definitely something to wait a while for, just do a google search on it and problems on the screen fill up fast.  There are several versions of Vista, each with their own price.  Go to www.windowsvista.com and you will find a lot of information from Microsoft about its features, editions, etc.  But don't go for the hype yet, Microsoft always makes things look better than they really are, espeically on new things.  Waiting for SP 1 or 2 sounds like a prudent move.

I have Xp with SR2. Poser 7 and everything works fine, so why upgrade????

Hasta la Vista, baby.

No plans on upgrading to lack-o-support hell and DRM-nightmare for some years.  Will wait for SCOTUS rulings beforehand....

Why make Bill G even richer????

I read that Micro$oft also plans on charging a fee PER MONTH, for virus protection! So even when you pay for it, you'll still be paying for it, month after month after month...

I lost this ETA, but will courageous try again:

If you are using WMP 10 and you get a notificaltion of a puny update (less than a meg, less than a minute), run for your life screaming!  Actually, it's an update to install WMP 11!.  It is horrid and has the most uber-Draconian DRM.  I have not been able to run it since being ensnared and fear loss of files - there are reports that it deletes 'non-DRM compliant' files (mp3 and wmv, etc.).  Uninstalling it is also not easy.  Some note that you can only go back to WMP 9 and can't get back to 10.  What a crock.  Heed....

Thanks! I was tempted to update WMP10.

IMO DRM can take a FF at itself. I don't care if anybody downloads my gallery images and uses them for anything they want, despite the time and effort I put into them.

After they've got their first $million, do they think they're going to starve?

As Johnny Rocco said in Key Largo, "Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more!"

Sorry
Within 2 years you will have to upgrade as with 98 before microsoft realesed buger code in so many of last updates for 98 which made it so unstable.
So faulty code in updates for xp will be realesed forcing people to upgrade to vista, as already more people around world having xp problems, ever from the realese of i.e 7.
Talking to various hackers who agreed with me if you going to put vista on with xp, use xp only for your children to access internet, as when xp came out with a lot of it's spyware intact.
Millions of people around the world ended up with child pic's on thier system, lot's of pedo hacker's used xp spyware to get them on computer's.
So 1 chap i instaled 98 with full security so his children could access net while he and his wife used xp, put it this way thank's to gates and yank goverment having fun with xp.
Talking 1 policeman over here who was into catching pedo's he said they nabed 1 family's computer but found out they did not download the pic's it was a hacker who did it.
Why do you think microsoft were forced to close thier loopholes,, so thank's to bonzo bush wanting to spy on peep's computers vista has nice spyware built in.
FOR god's sake if you going to use a vista, xp combo machine do not do not do not let your children use vista to access internet, keep them with xp.
Remember bonzo bush gave himself powers that he can order us mail opened even stuff arriving into yank land, he can order a mail truck stoped and every letter and parcel opened on his orders with his new power's, so just imagine what he and gates have got upto with vista.

I wonder who in his right mind would even want Vista? I really thought slavery had been banned in the US, seems like Microsoft wants the whole world to be their slaves and only do what they want them to do.

It's finally becoming clear..... Bill Gates wants to rule the world and Windows is his main weapon to do so.

Just why would a hacker bother to put pics on someone else's computer, for fun?, and then wait for a policeman to "come across" the pics? without any leads?
Loopy!
Do a .jpg/mpg/avi search of your pc and look for anything that shouldn't be there.
Never found anything I didn't download myself.

Easy. Someone used and unprotected computer as an echo point, so the wanted data was first downloaded there, then sent onward....meaning that a simple IP trace like many law enforcement agencies do would lead to the the first computer. And anything you download to your hard drives is still there; deleting it doesn't remove it, just the access reference. Even overwriting it doesn't mean it can't be reconstructed with the correct software. And very few people are capable of NSA level data wiping. Sounds like they got very lucky and the cops found the bot that the hacker used to make the system a zombie as well....

Quote -
Just why would a hacker bother to put pics on someone else's computer, for fun?, and then wait for a policeman to "come across" the pics? without any leads?
Loopy!
Do a .jpg/mpg/avi search of your pc and look for anything that shouldn't be there.
Never found anything I didn't download myself.

  Never under estimate the sheer skill an boredom of hackers. Windows Vista - like others have said is going to be one giant piece of spyware. There are NEWS article (not just hearsay stories) where a member of Macrogreed oops I mean Microsoft's higher ups told Gates in a letter that he lost sight of the company's original goals and that he has put a price on customer security. Mainly for the way is starts shutting down (without notice) critical security related processes if unregistered. Which means (in theory) if someone went out an bought a new pc with Vista that wasn't hooked to the net - figured they didn't need to register it and at a later date did conect to the web - they'd be ... well you know what.

Microsoft has lost sight of its goals. However, its a giant ... and we've yet to find the giant killer. IF we could get a Linux version of poser ... perhaps we could tell good ole Bill where to go.

As for 'having' to upgrade to Vista....why? So M$ refuses to 'support' XP after 2010 (they posture....but they said the same about 98, NT4, Win2k, etc...and the user base was still large enough to force them to extend); You find yourself with a stable system, it's insane to allow upgrades that could undo it. I still use 98SE and Win2K and could care less about 'support' (which isn't all that grand to begin with). Vista's DRM scheme is intrusive, draconian, and already rendered worthless (do a websearch on Muslix64; this kidlet has -already- cracked both blu-ray and HD-DVD encryption schemes). It interferes with programs doing their jobs.It doesn't matter what M$ wants; we are the consumers, and a simple refusal to blindly sheeple along with their plans is all we have to do to get the message across.

Being "hacked" is very nearly always not a case of real hacking, as in an outside person targeting your computer more or less at random and specifically banging on your machine until they get control of it.  It always turns out to be an unsuspecting user opened one of those cute little attachments that make animated sheep or smiley faces or whatever jump around on your screen - in the mean time, the cute little .exe installs a not-so-cute little remote console server on your machine and notifies the originator (most likely a marginally skilled thirteen year old weenie who got his tools off of a kewlio website and doesn't really understand how they work).

Said weenie gets home from school, logs onto your machine via his cute little trapdoor, and does random things to your computer.  It isn't hacking, it's just pathetic.  NO AMOUNT of operating system security can really protect you from yourself if you don't take little time to learn how to keep your machine secure.  If you are running any filesharing junk and hosting stuff for download off of your personal PC at home, you are basically advertising your machine as a target for bored 13 year old weenies.

If you have the most incredibly uber secure operating system in the world, and you are a fully permissioned adminstrator, you can very easily circumvent your own security, which is 99% of the time how "hacking" happens.  Serious hackers don't waste their time deleting your precious 2gb of lesbian porn on your home PC.

Someone tell me some good news.
I don't want my children to grow up in a world like this.
The words "revolution" or "Jihad" (fighting injustice and oppression) comes to mind.
Perhaps we don't really need computers at all, (says as he spends his 6th hour on his PC)

Bla bla bla bla end of world bla bla bill G .. bla bla bla... hackers more Bla bla ... etc etc ..
Do what i did ..GET a MAC..
End of windows story... and cheaper :}

I have Vista RC2 (not even final!) and it runs great, so does V6Infinite.

Just your graphics drivers. If you're using nvidia ones, get the new Forceware X betas. If you're using AMD/ATi, why even complain? Catalyst is stable and awesome.

And talking of DRM- if you don't touch it, it won't touch you. So much for FUD (oh wait, this is R'osity. :D)

Man I love all of the conspiracy therorists who run rampant spreading crap rumors, spy ware inserted into XP when it shipped, buggy updates to force you to upgrade, blah blah blah.  The basic facts are this, Vista is an overpriced eye candy with no major benefits, period.  If you are looking to play the latest Directx 10 games, then yes you will be forced to go to Vista as Directx 10 will only be issued with Vista.  If you are looking for a preyty desktop, go to Vista or Mac.  If you have to much money on your hands, go to Vista or better yet send it to me.  If your operating system works the way you want it to and see no foreseeable reason to change before 2010, then do like the rest of us are doing, place the tip of your thumb on the tip of your nose and wiggle your fingers vigorously at Bill Gates.  If you are actually curious as to what problems you may come up against if you do go to Vista, do some research, do not come to Renederosity for answers as you will get the most assinign answers you can find, mine included.

I find it very interesting how everyone is already slating Vista, saying 'XP works fine, so I won't upgrade!'

Well, I have to say - XP is the best, most stable operating system I've used so far, so I can't argue with anyone who says they won't upgrade to a 'buggy', needless OS designed to line the pockets of Bill Gates.

However, don't forget we all said the same about Windows XP when I came out!!!

How wrong we were!

Apart from the security.  That was naff.

With a name like Vista, you'd think they would have paid
some attention to the parts of the system that provide,
well, a vista.......

Quote - Bla bla bla bla end of world bla bla bill G .. bla bla bla... hackers more Bla bla ... etc etc ..
Do what i did ..GET a MAC..
End of windows story... and cheaper :}

Actually MACs have had security loop holes for years. And now that the newer models run a windows platform as well - they are just as much a target as a regular ole PC.

Back to the original thread (OpenGL on Vista), I've been reading a lot about Vista to try and decide if we want to upgrade our work PCs (we aren't for now) and OGL was an issue for us. Now in my rather limited knowledge, what I understand is that Vista does support OGL but under Direct X which greatly slows down performance. But most graphics apps use OGL from the video card not from the OS. While some (all?) apps may need to update the OGL part of thier apps, video card OGL should be about the same under Vista as XP. I have no idea how this effects Poser. This is just the impression I got and subject to correction:-) Best; Dan

I've no intention of switching to Vista at any time, unless absolutely forced to. I'm still using win2k on a laptop, and it works perfectly. XP pro is okay on my desktop. I just feel really sorry for all the punters out there who swallow the MS propaganda, and pay good money swapping out xp for vista only to find there's no advantage and possibly many disadvantages in doing so.

I don't think there is any compelling reason today to upgrade to Vista. I don't think anyone besides MS thinks there is. Most people will move to Vista in one of the following ways:

• The biggie: You buy a new PC and Vista comes on it. End of story. Manufacturers will shortly stop shipping XP systems, if they haven't already.
• You want to buy a cool new WiMax / USB3 / SuperSATA peripheral, but your XP system won't support it. This alone might not make you move, but it will elevate the justification for moving that much more in your mind.
• Your favorite application (Not Poser! Heaven forbid!) discontinues support for Windows XP, or comes out in two versions, one that supports added functionality but runs under Vista and one that is limited but will run under XP. I predict that this will be common with 64-bit apps and that many of them will skip over XP64 support and make the jump directly from 32-bit to Vista-only 64-bit.
• Somebody will come up with some excellent new piece of software that you love but that only runs under Vista. Or maybe you'll start to see dozens of cool, useful shareware/freeware apps that you like but that will only work under Vista.

The net effect of these will be the same - the Vista upgrade will start to seem more worthwhile, more people will start to get it, and eventually it will become the norm. The developers and the system builders are already there. The masses won't be far behind.

Bash MS if you like, but they're in a bit of a pickle. They make the lion's share of their money off Windows & Office. Linux is already nipping at Windows' heels, and smart devices are taking on more of the work that you used to need a desktop for. Services like Google Docs & Spreadsheets are just going to keep getting better, keep eating into their Office cash pile, and MS can only compete by matching their competitor's strategy and price structure, which makes them an also-ran rather than a market leader. They're concentrating their efforts in areas they think will be tough for competitors to match, and trying their best to grab hold of additional revenue streams before the one that sustains them turns from a river into a creek.

All I know is it went on sale last night and there was no big push to get it. Turn out was very low as opposed to a new video game system. I just built a brand new dual core machine with all the bells and whistles and it is more than Vista ready. However, I'm running Winxp SP2 and if I did want to change OS I'd go to XP pro before Vista. It was the same for me with Win98 I didn't  upgrade until I bought a new PC with it installed.

My opinion is to watch and wait before we go saying the sky is falling.

I have been having problems with Xp SR2 since Sunday and it's a FRESH INSTALL!!!!!! The firewall stopped working and can't be configured and the automatic updates keep installing the same thing over and over. So....... I donwloaded free ZoneAlarm firewall and enabled "High security stealth mode" which works pretty good. IP address sites can find Comcast Michigan, but no further. I also turned off automatic updates, which I was stupid enough to leave on in the first place. People who trust Microsoft are the same type of people that trusted Hitler. LOL!

I myself tend to skip a generation.  I started with DOS, then when I abolutely had to,
went to Windows 3.1.  (skipped 3.0).  Then when I absolutely had to I went to
Windows 98 (skipped 95).  Then when I absolutely had to went to Windows XP Pro.
(skipped NT, ME, 2000, et al).  So what ever comes after Vista is the one I
guess I will install.

Attached Link: http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/3ca0e305-6118-43be-9d5a-7820f7da66e41033.mspx

"Windows Vista provides the same support as Windows XP for OpenGL, which allows video card manufactures to provide an installable client driver (ICD) for OpenGL that provides hardware-accelerated support; note that newer versions of such ICDs are required to fully support Windows Vista. If no ICD is installed, the system will fall back to the OpenGL v1.1 software layer in most cases."

Sometimes it's easier to look up the facts than spend a lot of time discussing misinformation.

Quote - I myself tend to skip a generation.  I started with DOS, then when I abolutely had to,
went to Windows 3.1.  (skipped 3.0).  Then when I absolutely had to I went to
Windows 98 (skipped 95).  Then when I absolutely had to went to Windows XP Pro.
(skipped NT, ME, 2000, et al).  So what ever comes after Vista is the one I
guess I will install.

You will probably have to wait a long time. MS has gone to about a five-year cycle on OS development, so whatever comes after Vista won't be until about 2011 or so.

Quote - I have been having problems with Xp SR2 since Sunday and it's a FRESH INSTALL!!!!!! The firewall stopped working and can't be configured and the automatic updates keep installing the same thing over and over. So....... I donwloaded free ZoneAlarm firewall and enabled "High security stealth mode" which works pretty good. IP address sites can find Comcast Michigan, but no further. I also turned off automatic updates, which I was stupid enough to leave on in the first place. People who trust Microsoft are the same type of people that trusted Hitler. LOL!

I invoke Godwin's Law.

I turned off those blasted automatic updates a long time ago as I don't want MS to just install anything it darn well pleases without me knowing about it.

From what I've read so far, the only advantage that Vista seems to have over XP is that they're redesigning the UI or something. I don't care about that at all, and disable all the cute UI animations and effects. I want power, not stuff to take away my power.

I've also read somewhere that Vista is a sort of "in-between" release, very much like W2K easing user transition from Win98 to WinXP. Supposedly whatever comes after Vista is the sh*t. Also, if Vista uses the same code base as W2K (as XP32 does) then there's even less incentive to upgrade.

I still use Windows 2000 and I like it because it's streamlined (read: less fluffy features) and I have been seriously considering going Linux.

Err... Vista uses Server 03 code. They tried XP- oops I mean spaghetti, it wasn't good.

That's the reason Vista doesn't look to be much but is a blessing when used for long terms- OS itself never crashed ever since my November install.

I second the "skip a generation", or wait and see policy.
Did it with Poser and Windows.
Let the guinea pigs sort out the problems and then change over to a "real" release if you want..
Can't believe that such buggy software can be released to the paying public. Hook, line and sinker.

Just FYI.... XP 64 -also- uses Server 2003 as its codebase, so you -do- have a choice on 64 bit windows apps at the moment. And since hardware companies are not going to be writing Vista drivers for your old hardware, that is no longer an excuse to use if you want to upgrade to 64 bits. Save your old drivers and learn to dual or multiboot (and all you have to do is take a little care with your system, build it right, and clean out the registry, and you can have a pretty stable system regardless. Hell's bells, my DOS box is running a 3 year old build of 98lite and hasn't BSODed in all that time. My current XP Pro install hasn't BSODed or gotten unstable since the first Nvidia driver update....the one that horked the PCI-E timing. Vista is no guarantee of stability, and with the driver revocation and code level DRM crapola, I would not be surprised that a serious trend of instability emerges once the thing actually gets out into the real world, not the carefully controlled world of corporate and beta testing. And I do know of at least 2 corporate level testers who have been unable to get the bloody thing to even =install=...my bet is firmware issues with the DVD drives they use. They aren't brand new and shiny and don't know what DRM is; they just read data off discs). Tom's Hardware has weighed in with some benchmarks...and the OpenGL performance is abysmal. OpenGL was intended to be a speed up; forcing it to run through DX10 is just M$'s latest attempt to kill off a standard that they do not own. And considering all the games that use OpenGl, and the professional graphics applications, this is simply unacceptable.

Quote - Can't believe that such buggy software can be released to the paying public. Hook, line and sinker.

Try writing software for a living, working early mornings to late nights living on caffeine, meeting deadlines while juggling incomplete or late specifications from other companies, while trying to make your software do all the things that a technically naive user base expects it to do, where half of them are demanding features that conflict with the features that the other half are clamoring for.

After you do that, try doing it while there are people calling you greedy, avaricious, insensitive, offspring of unmarried canines. 

Better yet, build your own computer, and write your own damn operating system for it.

Whew... okay, that was a little bitter, wasn't it? Possibly that comes from me being in the middle of an overdue software project... I'll get back to my coffee and coding now.

Quote - > Quote - I myself tend to skip a generation.  I started with DOS, then when I abolutely had to,

went to Windows 3.1.  (skipped 3.0).  Then when I absolutely had to I went to
Windows 98 (skipped 95).  Then when I absolutely had to went to Windows XP Pro.
(skipped NT, ME, 2000, et al).  So what ever comes after Vista is the one I
guess I will install.

 

You will probably have to wait a long time. MS has gone to about a five-year cycle on OS development, so whatever comes after Vista won't be until about 2011 or so.

Quote - <<From what I've read so far, the only advantage that Vista seems to have over XP is that they're redesigning the UI or something. I don't care about that at all, and disable all the cute UI animations and effects. I want power, not stuff to take away my power.

I've also read somewhere that Vista is a sort of "in-between" release, very much like W2K easing user transition from Win98 to WinXP. Supposedly whatever comes after Vista is the sh*t. Also, if Vista uses the same code base as W2K (as XP32 does) then there's even less incentive to upgrade.>>

See, this is why I usually skip  a generation on Windows.  If it's just until 2011, I can wait.
That's not really much different than the time frame from Windows 3.1 to Windows 98
or Windows 98 to Windows XP.

(BTW, just to show that sometimes an old version is still good enough, I have a 386 computer
with Windows 3.11 installed on it that I use to run a milling machine at work.)

Yeah, Hawk' ol' buddy, I'm thinking I may be working a little too hard lately... perhaps I need to get hammered, instead of hammering out code. Worth thinkin' 'bout, huh? :biggrin:

Think about it, though. Microsoft has access to millions of PCs, and he could install anything on your computer. I'm sure they wouldn't. They just want to make more money, but I can imagine what Stephen King could do with this scenario..... Anyone read "Cell"?

Quote - Think about it, though. Microsoft has access to millions of PCs, and he could install anything on your computer. I'm sure they wouldn't. They just want to make more money, but I can imagine what Stephen King could do with this scenario..... Anyone read "Cell"?

In that same vein (pun intended) your physician has access to many, many types of hallucinatory, dependency-inducing, and just plain poisonous pharmaceuticals. I'm sure he wouldn't inject you with anything that will make you sicker and call it a "flu shot" just to make more money off of you and your health concerns. But you never know.

I admire anyone who can write programs and code because I'm one of those naive bloaks that has no idea what  most of this stuff means. My career was spent on breaking things LOL! Hardware, no problem I love building PCs and loading up the OS and other apps  is cake for me. However, if it's a software problem I'm FUBAR sometimes I wonder if I'm too damn dense. Big kudos to you programmer types!!

Quote - I admire anyone who can write programs and code because I'm one of those naive bloaks that has no idea what  most of this stuff means. My career was spent on breaking things LOL! Hardware, no problem I love building PCs and loading up the OS and other apps  is cake for me. However, if it's a software problem I'm FUBAR sometimes I wonder if I'm too damn dense. Big kudos to you programmer types!!

Not at all... being a programmer doesn't really require smarts so much as a willingness to lose your social skills while thinking like a machine, substituting coffee for food, and bashing your head into a wall periodically when someone says (for the two hundred sixty seventh time), "Yeah, I know that's what I said I wanted, but that isn't what I meant I wanted, you'll have to change it."

sigh

At least computers (hardware and software) are easier than raising kids. :biggrin:

I run XP Pro 64 bit and XP Pro 32 bit. 
I've tried Vista RC1, the 64 bit version. An abundance of graphical goodies, and I couldn't find anything. Made my PC feel like a Mac.

I'll probably upgrade my 64 bit workstations to WinXP 64 bit in the near future. Sleek, fast, no unnecessary junk. I want those CPU cycles for rendering! No Vista for me.

Security? No problem. Anyone trying to get into my home network first needs to pass the firewall in my broadband router (not easy), then it'll have to pass a locked down 2003 Server (also not easy), before he finally can enter my workstations. And I monitor those, I know each and every process that SHOULD run on the machine.

My log files show regular automated attacks over the years. None of them has ever gotten through. 

Support? Microsoft will continue to support WinXP for several years to come. Which is FAR better than ANY other software company I have ever dealt with. 
Poser 7 has been released - no more updates for Poser 6. Vue 6 has been released - no more updates for Vue 5. This is the usual update policy of almost all software companies.

DRM: No, I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Neither do the Microsoft engineers. They wouldn't have implemented it if they had not been forced to do so by the music and movies industry.
Linux does not have DRM. And if I read the signs right, new versions of Linux will be required to have the same DRM crap as Vista (and Mac OSX next version). By law. Legislature bought by the film and music industry.

Well, for Captain Jack. I was the first woman machine tool designer in Michigan, when we did NOT have PCs, at least not the kind they make nowdays. They were huge contraptions with tape drives and no GUIs. We  programmed things called "progrmable controllers" I can't believe it was over 25 years ago. PCs have come so far.

I go back to waiting in line to feed punch cards into a stack, then waiting in another room for someone to throw your output into a numbered bin. Fun, it was. That and "washing machine" disk drives, that could sometimes hold a whopping six megabytes of data. Those were definitely the days.

Although I hold Windows Vista "Home Premium" I stare with confusion and ask why? Why did MS have these 32-Bit DVD's/CD's on the shelf other than 64-Bit? It is Written on the DVD; "This Disk Contains 32-Bit Software only". And inside is info you can get the 64-Bit by going to MS website. There will be a cost. Now, with all that. hearing and reading that Windows-Vista is focused on newer computers. Isn't the new computers, or  majority of people who will purchase Vista will own 64-Bit PCs and Why 32-Bit? Confused and for some reason it doesn't seem right to pay to get the 64-Bit DVD (or CD's), also the waiting for the Package delivery. Their is some confusion here on Vista owning. "Home Basic" is what really confuses me about the choices. Only 2 features while others have way more features, and for the price. That Edition I feel that choice should be about $50. Well, low enough. Not fair, but that is not up to me to make that decision. So, I ended up with "Home Premium" to get these extra goodies. I haven't installed it yet. But waiting for the day when it is ok to.

I recall when I was using WinME, and everyone was chatting..."I will never own WinXP", and I was following em. Surpisenly, I was stund, and being left behind while other jump OS to XP, when they wrote they were not going to. Finding it was a stable system, than the resent ones. Reason I purchased my copy of Vista in the store, was due to stay with the times and the in the store freebies that comes with a new OS every time it hits the shelf on day one (I was given a cordless RangeBooter N Router: Model Dir-625). I also recall getting into arguements, about "You have to stay with technology, and that is the way it is. So, live with it!". I disliked it, but I had no choice to agree. Now, I am on the other side again. Where people are stating "will never get Vista!, and why would any one go out and do so?" And the arguement persist of the speed of technology, where now I agree "To live with it", and where the majority of others disagree. I am at a stand still. 

I never purchased P7 for a reason, yes, that it is better. Of course the next version of anything will be better than the resent versions. Windows Vista was about to be released when P7 hit the market, so the stability will be confusing. Poser 8 (if their will be a Poser 8), will have the stability to function nicely with Windows Vista and on older OS's like XP.  EF had the jump to market a new version before the new OS "Vista" hits the shelf. Was to soon after Poser 6 was released a year before. Got me off guard and didn't seem right to ignore poser 6 owners after the release of P7, when in fact P6 does have issues, and P7 should have been an update. So, who is the one being greedy here? Both I can see.