Hi all,

Mike 3 has this god-awful stick-insect like physique, with a long skinny neck and armpits that almost disappear through the shoulders (not quite as bad as V3, though, her ragdoll arms and macaroni shoulders drive me crazy).

Just wondering if anyone has had any success making M3 look more normal ? ... any recommendations for any products that have improved this.

Also V3 for that matter .....

regards,
Andrew

I'd add my gripes - he has those strange shoulder-armpit areas which don't look natural.  Any way to adjust the look of it without compromising the posing abilitiy, would be welcome.  I use M3 quite a bit, you see.

I'm not completely sure, but I believe someone posted a solution involving using one of the deltoid morphs negatively to deal with the shoulders ... hmmm ... let me check ... Aahh ... well I found an old post of mine mentioning that there is a shoulder fix morph included in Capsces Brom morph set for M3. And here is the other. Kamilche mentions in a post about applying muscularity to M3, then setting the Deltoid morph to somewhere between -.5 and -1. Of course, these don't help with the armpit issue or the neck issues. I actually don't use him much for those reasons. He just looks odd to me.

Thanks, folks.

While everyone is raving about Apollo (and deservedly so), and David and Hiro have quite a few fans as well (including me) .... I've never heard anyone rave on about M3 ....
Anyway, I see it as a challenge to be able to fix up something like this, so that's why I raised this thread.

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=37293&vendor=18682

I found Michael 3 Reborn by Khrys a step in the right direction and use those morphs regularly.  Nice price and excellent support too!

Thanks Kalypso, that looks pretty good ! ..... You are right, he doesnt bulk up well either. His "muscular" morphs look almost comical.

I've always thought that M3 was two evolutionary steps backward with regard to life-like, physiology/musculature. I think M2, although not as complex as the Universal Binaries--mesh and morph-wise--still has no peer when it comes to full body realism for the Poser male figure. David fixes some of M3's problems--like his ridiculous, taffy-neck, but D3 has issues all his own. Let's hope Mike 4 will show some of M2's original artistry and design. Just my two cents...

I've always been amazed at the support from Daz and content venders for this piece of ___  model. The #1 worst model that DAZ has ever made.

                                            JMO

There is no mention of M4 anywhere that I can find, anyone sure Daz is gonna create him?
Myself and cherokee69 were two of the people that spoke up when M3 was released, stating emphatically "how bad he sucks", of course we were shot down, called trolls, and everyone just Loved this new figure, Glad to see people are finally agreeing  after quite some time.  What I did was take every free morph i could get my hands on (thanks treckiegirl and others) and every add on morph pack at every store, combine them with m3's morphs, now he looks pretty good.
Ya know many folks here will praise daz, no matter how bad something is, why didn't people speak up when m3 was first released, it's a little late now.

dirk, what specifically have you done (in terms of applying 3rd party morphs etc) to improve M3 ?

BM...

;-) at dirk

I ain't disputing that the M3 figure works nice, but I've had the most weird arm-shoulder looks from the guy.....

www.genjyosanzo.net/HNY06/KD3DFeb07.html

( Mild male artistic nudity)

oh he defintely has arm and shoulder issues, actually he has a lot of issues, poor guy probably needs counseling :)

Attached Link: Seth

I ask because I have this guy that might be a step to what you are looking for.**

Or you could just get Apollo who will be available for free soon...

Quote - this is a very quick render, as with most figures, depending on the pose, you need to turn down the deltoids per example, inject all m3 body morphs, then grab treckie girls free morph here, combining the 2 will give some great results alone, then another example is if you have the freak export as a morph target the head morphs, then apply to m3, gives him a more masculine head and face, please remember this is a quickie render, he can look even better

@ dirk5027 -I like the look of this guy ! But is this with just all M3/trekkiegirls morphs or are the freak head morphs added in this pic as well ?

PapaBlueMarlin:  Very much looking forward to Apollo's release, yeah.

I actually love M3.   I find, most of his "problems" to be a matter of the texture on the figure, which is the same problem with Jessi 6.   Its actually amazing when you shade a texture with the right musculature or different lightenss and saturation, how beautiful these characters are.   M3 tends to look like "rubber", with any of the standard textures.  (jessi looks like an alien, but take her texture off and just color her flesh toned and she's gorgeous).

I would never use M3 for a total nude, unless i painted hair long enough to cover the shoulders.  I find his body ultimately morphable, great six pack abs, and I seem to be able to "meat him up" just fine.  His shoulders tho, twist like rubber bands.

Here is an image I've done with M3.  Granted, he is fully clothed, but the "beef" underneath is plainly there, he hardly looks stick like (IMHO could be wrong! LOL)

He's beautiful! If I may be allowed to say a man is beautiful.

Raven - Those shoulders are right on the money, good job.

M3's problems go beyond just a texturing solution. If you're interested in posing him with his arms at his sides, or hands on hips, or no higher than shoulder level, he's the guy for you. If however, you raise his arms above his head, you can see where DAZ dropped the ball. In addition to the glaring, aforementioned shoulder problem (which DAZ addressed in a specific "shoulder fix" morph for M2), M3's taffy lats, stretch and bulge like a flying squirrel. And his pecs...please. He's never taken well to muscle morphs either. The result is usually a lumpy, bumpy mess. (Kudos to TrekkieGirl et. al. for attempting to fix what DAZ never bothered to do. Actually DAZ did attempt to patch Mike 3: they named it "David.") I agree with Niles about the cottage industry that's grown around this terrible figure. Mike 3 just looks like a rushed-job answer to all the questions about a male counter-part to V3. Although there's been no mention of M4 yet, the usual pattern that precedes the dawn of a new figure--DAZ's free M3/David figure giveaways--gives one hope. End of whining...

I agree, its not just a texturing solution .... and its not just the armpit/shoulder issue, there are also vrey similar problems at the knees.

BTW, nice work raven.

Attached Link: P6 James Expression Morphs

I rated M2 as the best Poser male base figure, and M3 near the buttom.   
channingg and raven show great results with some workaround methods here, but a good base human figure should look human by default  (instead of M3's default rubber looks in the shoulders and armpits -- his mesh needs to be corrected!  ).

Lately, I find that of all Poser base figures, P6 James can produce the most realistic facial expressions.   And with the Face Room functions, you can also easily produce a great variety of different characters with P6 James.    So when clothed, P6 James is my No.1 choice for creating male characters (Miki and V4 tie as my No.1 for female character creation for the same reason).   
I just wish there were more outfits created for P6 James.

 the deltoid is made up of 3 "HEADS"
FRONT LATERAL AND REAR!! (See attached pic)

This is where even the much heralded Apollo Max Fall sway short
his shoulders are one big single smooth "cap' like the sawed of top of a human skull implanted under the skin .

M3 is the cruelists of jokes  when is comes to muscular anatomy

But Alas the poser market is dominated by V-x fantasy crap for females

and svelt,  semi-androgenous euro fem-boys from Rivendale being fobbed of as men.

with very little in the way of options for rugged or hyper musculine males.

its good to have good old M2  still around

LONG LIVE DAZ MIKE2!!!!!!!!!!

always been a fan of your m2 creation, wishful thinking from me is that daz would make an m4 based on m2, more options for the face and so on

I've gotten nice results from using the M3 Revisited Cr2 (Raven mentioned above) and loading him up with all the David 3 morphs, then morphing in the body into a more substantial looking male. 

I have to agree with Wolf also though, sometimes Mike 2 is the man.

3/5/07

"then grab treckie girls free morph here"

Does someone have a link to these morphs?

Thanks,

LMK

LOL. Wolf, I couldn't have said it better myself. M2 is also the only figure that attempts accurate triceps--not an easy task--the muscle group is complex, as the three heads flex differently at different upper arm positions. David has a suggestion of tri's, Mike 3--don't get me started, and Apollo...well he's an A-for-effort attempt, by a very talented hobbyist, to create accurate male physiology. I applaud Anton's hard work, but Apollo is a bit of a cartoon.

I might send DAZ3D a message, refering this thread for them to consider -- I hope M4 will be built combining the nice features of M2 and David, with more facial expression morph channels and improvement on the eyes.

Just for fun, I'm putting up my rankings on the Poser male figures here:

Poser Male Figure Physique-wise (for anatomically correct morphs):

#1--M2  ;    #2--David  ;   #3--Hiro realistic ;   #4--???

Feel free to add your rankings here.

.

Attached Link: http://trekkiegrrrl.dk/

look for the menu on the left and click characters

And my rankings on the 

Poser male Realistic Facial Expressions & Morphs:

#1--P6 James  ;   #2--Koji  ;   #2--G2 Kelvin (tie)  ;   

#4--David  ;   #4--G2 James (tie)  ;   #4--G2 Koji (tie)

#7--M3  ;  #7--Freak (tie)  

#9--???

.

*Mike 3--don't get me started, and Apollo...well he's an A-for-effort attempt, by a very talented hobbyist, to create accurate male physiology. I applaud Anton's hard work, but Apollo is a bit of a cartoon.

Thanks for saying that i said that before and got slammed for it

I might send DAZ3D a message, refering this thread for them to consider 

Go for it, anything that would help get a new USABLE male figure

James is one of the best looking male figures, but the lack of options for the face and body, leaves him out in the cold, that's a shame too, hindsights muscle morphs did help, but he still needs more options and the funny thing is so many people make muscle morphs BUT so many of them don't affect the forearm, they stay skinny, many time also the same goes for the neck
And Simon, poor guy is just odd looking

I forgot to put M2 in the Expression ranking.

So my new ranking for the 

Poser male Realistic Facial Expressions & Morphs:

#1--P6 James  ;   #2--Koji  ;   #2--G2 Kelvin (tie)  ;   

#4--David  ;   #4--G2 James (tie)  ;   #4--G2 Koji (tie)

#7--M3  ;   #7--M2 (tie) ;   #7--Freak (tie)

#10--???

BTW, you can quickly create a variety of distinct characters (face morphs) with P6 James, when combined with the random face feature in the P6 Face Room.

.

Quote - I've gotten nice results from using the M3 Revisited Cr2 (Raven mentioned above) and loading him up with all the David 3 morphs, then morphing in the body into a more substantial looking male. 

I have to agree with Wolf also though, sometimes Mike 2 is the man.

I've gotten some wierd results from injecting some of the David face morphs. I was initially turned off of M3 Revisited because, to my mind, the preview picture made the face look very wierd, with enormous jaw muscled.

Though I can work with just about every figure to come down the pike (with a few exceptions), I do find the whole male genre completely lacking.  They either look good if you make a stick thin waif of a bishonen, or, a huge muscle bound man.   Sadly, neither of those do anything for me.  I'd give just about anything for a "normal" physique!

Contrary to the popular, i do find the right texture makes a WHOLE lot of difference, but I can't argue the failings, (shoulder, expressions......... people, lets agree, not exactly realistic private male anatomy either).  Luckily I don't do a whole lot of nudes, however, it would be really nice to have a shoulder that shows a bone structure underneath and the seperate (and intricate!) musculature of that part of the body.

Rikishi is kind of chubby-big-cute.  And there are several older man character sets around, for the DAZ males.  There is one other non-hunky non-bishonen type original figure, but I forget what the name is.  Kind of a cave man guy.  I dunno... I prefer the male figures, but that is just my personal preference.  

infinity10, maybe you are thinking of Senya (looks like the fat kid from "King of the Hill")

got to run off for the day's schedule, but no not Senya -  by someone who recently offered some freebies in the  Poser forum, and his website has the updates for his figure.  Cute and cheeky little chap - the figure I mean.

There's an interesting point brought up here about face vs body realism. With the the birth of the Universal Binaries, facial morphs and textures took a major leap forward in that regard, while everything below the neck--as far as the male figure is concerned--lagged behind. Certainly the addition of more intricate and complex facial morphs (and textures), compared to body morphs for these figures makes that clear. That's great if your interest is in creating head or medium-shot portraits. Hell, even Apollo looks good in tight close-up. And you're right, 3DVim, James' facial capabilities are amazing. But it's about time DAZ let Mike's body catch up with his head.

LOL!  Actually, I think the "patched" M3 (for muscularity) was the Freak!

Channingg: how did you do the "unimesh morph transfer" to move D3's chest width morph to M3?  Do tell!

:-D

infinity10, maybe you mean JJ v2.0  then ?

Ah !  yes !  JJ

I looked at M3 Revisited at PoserPros but I don't get it... what exactly is the deal with it and why? :)

It was regrouped so that it can take David's, & V3's morphs. David