It's ok. I read it. I'm bowing out. :)

Instead of coming here to browse the Poser freebie links

I'll just go to the freebie forum instead lol.

Sorry I just got back from a long day of meetings.

Speaking of, I may be missing something. Stacey did you have your meeting?  What was the decision regarding compromise? I am not sure I am follwing how what you posted differs from the original policy. They are all links to freestuff or the freestuff forum only.

Just to be clear. And I am only referring to the Poser forum. Yes or no. 

1. All freebie posts in the Poser forum must be to Renderosity freestuff only items or Renderosity Freestuff forum only. Not Daz. Not CP. Not my site. etc.

2. Freebie posts may be made by admirers (Arcadia)only but not by the creator (me).

Right?

Edit: Ps: thansk for the freestuff header. After so long it is deeply appreciated and a relief.

Quote - Sorry I just got back from a long day of meetings.

Speaking of, I may be missing something. Stacey did you have your meeting?  What was the decision regarding compromise? I am not sure I am follwing how what you posted differs from the original policy. They are all links to freestuff or the freestuff forum only.

Just to be clear. And I am only referring to the Poser forum. Yes or no. 

1. All freebie posts in the Poser forum must be to Renderosity freestuff only items or Renderosity Freestuff forum only. Not Daz. Not CP. Not my site. etc.

2. Freebie posts may be made by admirers (Arcadia)only but not by the creator (me).

Right?

Edit: Ps: thansk for the freestuff header. After so long it is deeply appreciated and a relief.

1)  If you are the freestuff provider and are announcing/advertising a freebie item you have, then the Freestuff forum. If someone in the Poser forum is asking for something you have or another freestuff provider has, you can post the link here regardless of where its offered.

2)  Not necessarily, read my answer to #1.  The difference will be if you are announcing or advertising it for download. Does that make sense?

You're welcome on the categories. Have you peeked in the Freestuff forum? I think we have someone announcing a freebie for the Apollo character already:)

Let me know if I need to clarify further

Regarding your response to 2. What is the difference between announcing and "advertising" a freebie? Is there a difference?

So unless someone specifically asks for Apollo or a free male figure I cannot mention him in the Poser forum or anything new for him. Correct?

Is it time for kitty pictures now?  Here's Oreo.  :)

Announcing and advertising is the same IMO.. I just meant you know if you came in and started a thread saying "New freebie item for blah" that would need to go in the Freestuff forum if you are the freestuff provider.

Its the same concept of the thought process you would use regarding a product for sale and when to post it in the Product Showcase.

I'm not saying you can't mention it or anything new but as far as posting the link saying come get this free item that would go in the Freestuff forum.

Three last questions. I will use Arcadia as an example because she posts so much.

1. Can she or any member post a thread called "New freebie or item at Daz..." 

2. Can I or any member say, new item at Anton's site as long as no link is included?

3. can tutorial links still be posted or do those fall under something similar?

I'll be honest with you Renderosity, this whole nonsense is unbecoming.

I've seen many upheavals since I've joined and had kind of wrote them off as disgrunteled members. However, the fact remains I see this time and time again and I'm seeing a pattern from you all.
It kind of reminds me of the old customer service adage, and quite frankly I think your customer service is becoming archaic. You are like the big 3 american auto makers. You refuse to adapt and are becoming overrun. I don't think you quite realize the impact that your decisions will have upon you. And the decisions that you are making a stand on...are not worth fighting for.

An wise old sage once said, "Choose your battles wisely."
You are not.

A few sites have been making bad decisions that they wont back down on recently, this seems bad to me, too.

Giving in to popular opinion is not always a bad thing.

I also have my reservations about this. 

I like finding Poser freebies and info in the Poser forum.... why the need to overcomplicate things?  It should tell you something If you've got to take this long to explain it and people still don't get it.

Well I must say that as a freebie provider, I am glad they decided to have a Freebie Forum, even more so now that we can announce our freebies in there without uploading them to the freestuff area. I have seen too many negative posts in this forum about the freebie alerts when it came from the freebie creator. I for one never felt free to announce my freebies in here since Anton and I don't remember who else started a "war" on these posts. I know they said it was a prank afterwards but at the time it seemed real to me and since then well...

And apart from that, I am sure I read somewhere in this forum messages asking to get a freebie forum. I guess nobody can make everybody happy.

This time, I am part of those who are happy with this decision.

What you are mistakenly referring to is an April Fool's thread from 2006, which I already mentioned in this thread in passing.

Please state your own opinion and leave me out of it. You don't need to mention me in your opinion on that year old thread that has nothing to do with this topic, other than people felt the same way, myslef included.

Thanks in advance for respecting my wishes. I appreciate it.

I'm sorry you took it as an insult or something. It had nothing to do with you personnally Anton. I was just stating that since that April Fool thing I've felt wary about announcing my freebies in this forum. I also said that you had explained it was a joke. I could not say it was someone else since it was you. But I repeat it was not a "rebuke"? (Not sure of the word in English.) And you see, that's probably why it seemed so real to me at the time... because it was in English (of course). ;o)

So again, I apologize if you felt I was blaming you or something. It was NOT my intention at all.

I think it's quite clear that the new policy has been chosen primarily because the Renderosity staff is concerned that some freestuff will contain trademark/copyright infringements (perhaps even violations of Renderosity Merchants' stuff). By requiring that all submitted items be "pre-approved" by the staff before a link can be supplied, the staff is hoping that it can prevent any link to such violations. And by restricting links to a specific forum, the staff is hoping that it will be easier to police for posting of links that haven't been "pre-approved".

But as someone has rightfully point out earlier, since the freestuff is hosted upon servers not controlled by Renderosity, then there is ultimately no control over the content of the freestuff. Violations can occur at any time, even after the "pre-approval", by whomever does control the freestuff server. In other words, this is not a very secure screening policy.

But the obvious question is, why should Renderosity be policing the content of servers it doesn't even control? A trademark/copyright violation upon such a server should have no legal bearing upon Renderosity. It's not like Renderosity is going to be sued because someone else violated the law. And there is even some precedence where site operators have not been held legally accountable for the content that DOES appear on their own sites when the operators haven't generated that content themselves. (For example, there has been a case where a web site operator was sued for some libel posted on its bulletin board from an anonymous member. The judge found that the site operators were not responsible for the content of that posting. So why then would a judge find a site operator liable for content that isn't even on his own server?)

And a more dangerous question one can ask is: Could Renderosity's pre-approval of freestuff imply any sort of guarantee that there is no copyright violation? Could someone who obtains some freestuff via a link upon Renderosity, and is sued for copyright violation due to use of that freestuff, now have a legal standing to say "This freestuff was supposed to be pre-approved by Renderosity staff to be assured of copyright compliance. They exhibited negligence in evaluating this freestuff. Therefore, I'm suing them for their negligence which caused me to mistakenly believe that the material was in compliance."? You have to be careful when you start to take on responsibility, particularly if you're taking on responsibility for that which you really do not have any control over. It may be better to let the public (ie, members) police instances of trademark/copyright violations by third parties, rather than accept responsibility for policing something that one isn't in a position to effectively police.

Of course, it would be a whole different ballgame if the freestuff really was being hosted by Renderosity servers.

Francemi,

sigh That was not my thread Francemi. I was in it as many were, except I knew it was a joke. I think it illustrated, as it was meant to, how important freebies are to the community and members. And it wasn't a war. It was the thread starter being beaten to a pulp by a mob, for jokinglysuggesting the same thing you are applauding here.

I would rather not get off -topic. I understand. No problem.

Quote - And apart from that, I am sure I read somewhere in this forum messages asking to get a freebie forum. I guess nobody can make everybody happy.

This time, I am part of those who are happy with this decision.

Meh? I don't think anyone is complaining about a new forum here... from everything I've read, it has more to do with new and interesting (to be charitable) rules applied to what can and cannot be posted in which forum. Not my site, not my rules, but it does make one wonder... /P

Thanks Anton, I'm glad you understand. I hate to hurt someone's feelings and when I do, it is always by "accident". ;o)

no problem. People remember things out of context all the time. Sorry you were under those impressions all this time.

Great news. So welcome Freestuff Forum :)

I'm unhappy with the new rules.

Not at least because I have to post anouncements for my free products to a forum called "Renderosity Freestuff". It's not Renderosities Freestuff, it's mine. Made by me, owed by me and I'm the one paying the bill for making it and paying for the traffic if it is downloaded.

It's time for me to look for a new "home".

I'm confused - any chance of admin clarifaction on a few things please ?

1. If it's a 'new' freebie do can still submit to the freestuff area like before ? 

2. We can only post the announcement of the new freebie in the freestuff forum - and NOT in any other forums.

3. If someone posts a message in say the Poser forum looking for something - are we still allowed to post a link to that freebie ?. Be it ours or someone elses.   

4. QC - are you now testing all items in BOTH the freestuff area and freestuff area. 
   Or just in one area ?

*Great news. So welcome Freestuff Forum :)
*Yeah... so now we'll all have to create new freebies to celebrate the new forum. ;o))

Quote - Three last questions. I will use Arcadia as an example because she posts so much.

1. Can she or any member post a thread called "New freebie or item at Daz..." 

2. Can I or any member say, new item at Anton's site as long as no link is included?

3. can tutorial links still be posted or do those fall under something similar?

1. Yes if she or any member isn't the provider and just saying Hey look at this, they can even post the link:)

2)  Any member could say that about your site and include the link. Let me think a minute of what you are saying about announcing your own new item with no link...  

1. No tutorials are fine as we don't have a specific announcement forum for those

Quote - I'm confused - any chance of admin clarifaction on a few things please ?

1. If it's a 'new' freebie do can still submit to the freestuff area like before ? 

2. We can only post the announcement of the new freebie in the freestuff forum - and NOT in any other forums.

3. If someone posts a message in say the Poser forum looking for something - are we still allowed to post a link to that freebie ?. Be it ours or someone elses.   

4. QC - are you now testing all items in BOTH the freestuff area and freestuff area. 
   Or just in one area ?

1.  Yes that all still works the same. The Freestuff Forum is just another place to get exposure, feedback, etc.

2.  If you are the freestuff provider then yes

3.  Yes

4.  Not sure I understand but I think you mean "both the Freestuff area and Freestuff Fourm"?  If so then the answer is no, we won't go through the same process as we do in the Freestuff area but we will make sure that the posted link in the Freestuff forum goes to the download and that its a site that is within our TOS guidelines.

Hope that helps:)

Quote - I'm unhappy with the new rules.

Not at least because I have to post anouncements for my free products to a forum called "Renderosity Freestuff". It's not Renderosities Freestuff, it's mine. Made by me, owed by me and I'm the one paying the bill for making it and paying for the traffic if it is downloaded.

It's time for me to look for a new "home".

The reason it was named the "Renderosity Freestuff" is because the intent was to highlight freestuff items from our Freestuff area here at Renderosity. I have taken the "Renderosity" out of the name since we made our decision yesterday to allow other links than to our Freestuff area:)

Question

1. We can only post the announcement of the new freebie in the freestuff forum - and NOT in any other forums.

Answer
2.  If you are the freestuff provider then yes*

erm. which achives what? since the link will still be posted by a 3rd party.
what is gained by not letting the freestuff provider post directly? I mean, lets say I post a freebie. I can't link to it in the poser forum, only the freebie forum. but I can ask, say, Joseph Blog to post it for me and thats ok.

sorry.. that one don't make any logical sense ;)

You did a great job with this Stacey and I thank you. ;o)

Quote - *
Question

1. We can only post the announcement of the new freebie in the freestuff forum - and NOT in any other forums.

Answer
2.  If you are the freestuff provider then yes*

erm. which achives what? since the link will still be posted by a 3rd party.
what is gained by not letting the freestuff provider post directly? I mean, lets say I post a freebie. I can't link to it in the poser forum, only the freebie forum. but I can ask, say, Joseph Blog to post it for me and thats ok.

sorry.. that one don't make any logical sense ;)

Yes you can do that I think. Sorry I didn't make that clear..I just mean that if you are the freestuff provider you need to post announcements in the Freestuff forum and if you WANT to link to that post in the freestuff forum in the Poser forum that is fine. I was referring to just announcing in this forum only and not using the Freestuff forum as intended.

aah now it makes sense lol

thanks Stacey

Good glad it makes sense to you cause I am way confused;)  j/k..

Feel free to use my earlier list of questions for the FAQ (with answers of course).

StacyG said:

Quote - I just mean that if you are the freestuff provider you need to post announcements in the Freestuff forum and if you WANT to link to that post in the freestuff forum in the Poser forum that is fine. I was referring to just announcing in this forum only and not using the Freestuff forum as intended.

This makes absolutely no sense. A freestuff "provider" can't post a link to his free stuff in the Poser Forum for example...but he can post a link to his free stuff in the Freestuff Forum, then he can post a link in the Poser Forum to the post in the Freestuff Forum that contains the link to his free stuff. 

It's absolutely absurd. That simply increases the number of posts, taking up more space on the servers, creating more page requests...it's crazy...crazy I tell yah! Why not use the Freestuff Forum to discuss free stuff, get help from the makers, make suggestions for free stuff we'd like to have, talk about the way various providers come up with ideas, what their work flow is, how to package it, what goes in what folders, where to find compressors and decompressors...let them put links to their files in which ever forum the want.

Let's say, hypothetically, I'm a free stuff provider and I create a model in .obj format, that I primarily want to share with Carrara users as a token of thanks for members of that forum. Not that I wouldn't want to share with everyone, but let's say I don't mind if others find it but it's really meant for the members of the Carrara forum. Why shouldn't I be able to post a link to it in the Carrara forum? Under these rules I'd have to post my link in the Freestuff form then post a link to the post with the link in the Carrara forum...thereby making the model accessable to everyone...defeating my purpose.

I can think of plenty of reasons to allow linking to freestuff in any forum...but I can't think of any reasonable reason to require freestuff links to be limited the the Freestuff Forum.
 
This is even more absurd than not allowing nudity in thumbnails when there is a perfectly good functioning nudity filter. In all my years here, I thought I'd seen it all...but this whole freestuff linking thing just takes the cake.

tainted, The freestuff forum is there now for a reason and it should be used as such. The same applies with the Product Showcase as it has for sometime now.  Each forum is designed for specific type posts. BUT at the same time I don't want to take away the ability for providers to let a particuliar group know if they choose to by linking to their advertising post in the appropriate Freestuff forum. 

I know that not everyone is going to agree with everything but I feel we have made a good compromise here.

Quote - And one more for the road :-

Will links to or details of where to find off site products (i.e. things for sale) still be allowed anywhere outside the Products Showcase forum ?
If so, why are references to freebies under a more restricted regime ?

The Product Showcase guidelines work the same way as the Freestuff Forum guidelines. You can't advertise a product for sale anywhere but the Product Showcase. You can help a member by pointing them somewhere if it appears in a discussion thread in a particuliar forum. But the Product Showcase guidelines have been the same for quite some time and the Freestuff will follow the same.

nruddock

Your big long list of scenario questions are a bit confusing to me but also posted before some clarifications were made on Tuesday afternoon.

If you have more questions after reading from that point on, please let me know.

Thanks

Quote - Dang silly idea. 

Whats next - charging to upload freebies ?

Freestuff and freestuff makers should be encouraged and not hindered - as these are often the merchants of the future.

OMG don't give them any ideas!

Quote - I wish there was a forum and free stuff site out there with no ties to selling  whatsoever - it seems this buck pulls too many strings around here and it's just ultimately frustrating. 

http://www.sixus1media.com/links/index.php

Quote - nruddock
Your big long list of scenario questions are a bit confusing to me but also posted before some clarifications were made on Tuesday afternoon.
If you have more questions after reading from that point on, please let me know.

As I'm not likely to be posting anything freebie-like apart from Python scripts, I'll wing it for the time being, as linking in response to enquiries is back to being allowed.

Is everybody Done fighting .....

I swear its the last time i stick my neck out for something i think we can have fun with...

I got IM's with messages that i fu"n"ked up the freebee's here ..i got Private mail saying things to me thats totaly out of line....

I know R'o mentioned my name in one of the first messages about the Freebee forum..
But i have NO relation with this site other then any other member...

I was a bit proud that the forum came .. i think its a good thing that people can become a better modeler or make better textures etc etc with the feedback from the forum...

I hope you enjoy it ...

Chris 
PS
Im not gonna give names to nobody ...  i know who is who and that enough.

Stacey, currently the new Freestuff forum is invisible to all Renderosity members who have ever checked not to view all forums.

I had to go in and change my forum preferences to make it visible. I only had the Poser and showcase forums visible and FreeStuff forum was not an option. I didn't know it had been created yet until I followed a link the night I posted to it.

So basically the Freestuff forum is currently in a box inside a closed closet.

It might behoove the site to reset the forum visibility options so that this forum is visible by default for these people, and not invisible by default.

people are unlikely to reset a forum to visible that they don't know exists.

I can ask the programmers about this Anton, not sure if they can do that or not.  We have linked it in this forum's header and several others. Will be doing most all of them in the next little bit.

Chris,

I am very very sorry to hear about the IM's you have received, that is really uncalled for and unecessary. The Freestuff forum is a good idea and it was suggested by NUMEROUS members not any one person.  Some people just don't like change and no matter what it is, they are going to buck because that is what they do. Next time someone IM's you saying stuff like that, point them in my direction and tell them that its all my fault for listening to members request:)  I'll be more than happy to have a word with someone acting like that. I am very disappointed to learn that some would do this.. very disappointed.

k

Reading this thread is like having an ice pick in each eye while sucking on a live cattle prod. My head hurts!!!!

Quote - tainted, The freestuff forum is there now for a reason and it should be used as such. The same applies with the Product Showcase as it has for sometime now.  Each forum is designed for specific type posts. BUT at the same time I don't want to take away the ability for providers to let a particuliar group know if they choose to by linking to their advertising post in the appropriate Freestuff forum. 

I know that not everyone is going to agree with everything but I feel we have made a good compromise here.

Problem is, it's the wrong reason...which is par for the course here. I rknow you believe you are doing something good for the community by limit linking to freestuff in the forums, but you really aren't. By and large a freestuff forum is a good idea for if it was being used in the ways I stated in my last post. But you've added another restriction with this linking thing. Seems Renderosity can't give anything without taking something away. 

Your compromose isn't really any compromise. It boggles my mind how you can treat freestuff the same way you treat products for sale. Linking to them in the forums does no harm, does not cause an uproar, and is not something anyone asked to have stopped. The freestuff forum is a grand idea...but restricting providers to linking to their freestuff only in that forum is asinine.

While I, for one, appreciate your willingness to compromise...somehow the compromises always seem to be in favor of what you (collective you) want, and we are left with agreeing to disagree. Many of us get very tired of the "take it or leave it" attitude around here...and many good, helpful, innovative members have made the decision to "leave it" as a result of that attitude in the past. We have lost much in the way of help, sharing, tutoring, and friendship as a result. It's done nothing but change this site from a dynamic, active center ...to a bland limbo.

You may be making a ton of money in your marketplace, but your community has suffered as a result.

I really don't see this model working.

Already people are posting their links in the free stuff forum with a referring link in the poser forum.

All this is going to do is increase people's post counts.

Just because something was made as a suggestion, doesn't mean it was a good one and had to be implemented. And just because it was implemented doesn' t mean that it can't be undone.  All it takes is the press of the "delete forum" button and it's back to the way it was.

If they are looking for ways to stop people coming here, why not just get rid of all the forums?

This only applies to the Poser Forum, right?

""The freestuff forum is a grand idea...but restricting providers to linking to their freestuff ** only** in that forum is asinine.""
Asinine was the exact word I thought of to describe this.  I only read this one forum.  Now I am forced to read two.  (Well forced if I want the same benefit I previously had with just the one).  And how does this reduce any forum clutter at all with 2 threads for every freebie now instead of one.

Half the time when I am on the board looking for some particular freebie I have poser - photoshop and god knows what else opened - now I get to open 2 or more browser windows too just for the same cause.

Quote - If they are looking for ways to stop people coming here, why not just get rid of all the forums?

Don't be silly. How would that pay the rent? What we are headed for is R'osity charging you for stuff others contribute. Oveheads, don't you know. And, and, well, ***It's Their Site, REMEMBER!!!

Enjoy.
M

Quote - ""The freestuff forum is a grand idea...but restricting providers to linking to their freestuff only in that forum is asinine.""
Asinine was the exact word I thought of to describe this.  I only read this one forum.  Now I am forced to read two.  (Well forced if I want the same benefit I previously had with just the one).  And how does this reduce any forum clutter at all with 2 threads for every freebie now instead of one.

TBH I have only been to the freebie forum a handful of times to see what it was all about and to look at the rational behind creating it and the  rules, so that I could post them in this thread. 

I only read 2 forums here on a regular basis.....Poser and Paint Shop Pro.  Four others I go to on an add needed basis:  Photoshop, HTML, and hardware  when I need to ask a question. And post in the Community Centre forum when I need to advise of some site issues.   I don't bother with the rest of the forums. I can see all of the forums I have displayed on my screen  without having to scroll. So far as freebie forums go, I don't even go to the ones at Poser Pros and Daz unless someone here mentions something specific that is available there.

As big of a supporter as I am of freebies and their creators, I have no use for a freebie forum. I'll just keep doing what I've been doing in the Poser forum because none of that is affected by the change.

But I agree with you.  All this freebie forum is doing is creating redundent posts....2 posts per  freebie now.

Too goofy!

Oh well, at least freebie creators double their chances for bumping up their post counts and maybe one day they will have more posts than me,  LOL