Is it done via calculations or is there actually somone responsible for doing it?

We get a little old lady called Gladys to put a blindfold on then stick a pin in a printout of member names.

Just kidding! :m_laugh:

It's all done by calculations. I don't know the exact logarithms.

Whats an art chart?

John

If you comment on all of my images, give me 5-star ratings and favorite me and all my images, and get all your friends to do the same, I'll tell ya :P

LMAO ConnieKat

Vulcans...who else would measure them to 5 digits?...;)

In theory the art charts is a good thing, but alas it's all about friendship.
Can I please have some more friends so I can get to the top?!!

Yes, I've always wondered about the social aspect of Renderosity. The are obviously cliques of friends who support each others' work, but how are these friendships established? Is there a huge amount of IM-ing going on, that I'm not party too? Or are they friends in real life? Or is it all the result of posting a "Great image!!!" comment on every image posted? Somebody's got to be in loop. Please tell us how it works. -Alan

There is what I call the "hug club" here at renderosity. A collection of cliques, whereby someone of said club posts a picture - despite it being good or not - ultimately gets an overwhelming response of: "great job, hugs" etc...ad infinatum from other members of the hug club.
Take a look at the art charts - there are pictures that deserve to be up there and there are pictures without any artistic merit what so ever. And before people get their panties in a bind - I am not talking about topic - I am talking about technique and skill.
Further to that, I've rarely, if ever seen any creative criticism advised.
If you see a picture with a title with a dedication to such and such person - that's a hug club.
Another way people do it - is by posting a comment on your picture - just so long as you do if for their picture. I've been IM by people telling me that they've commented on my picture and could I please do so for them.
There people that pump out multple pictures per week - the sum comments or favorites is tallied and inevitably gets said artist on the favorite artist board.
At the end of the day - the cream always rises to the top. If your artowork is good you'll get noticed and if it should be your choice. Paid work.
...and let the flaming begin...lol...

I think these "hug clubs" start when people add artists to their favourite lists.
You are then ebotted each time a new pic is put up and some feel compelled to make a comment. People, being as they are, like to make nice comments.
I would say that the art chart correlates closely to the number of people you have on your favourites list.
Beats me how anybody can judge art anyway. Technique or skill  maybe, but not the artistic quality of the piece itself.

In my opinion, you can make some real friends here. I messed up my knee jumping off my horse and I was stunned by the support I got from folks I talked to here. You meet people with similar interests just like in non-PC life. The bottom line is we are not making money from this - so why worry about the art charts? PS. KAREN RATES US, LOL! (Just kidding)

Does Gladys accept Euro bucks to make her choice??? ;)

No, but I have heard that Gladys is partial to chocolate.

Here is the best way to call upon Gladys's spirit.

1. Place a chocolate bar (the bigger the better) on your desk.
2. Upload your render to the gallery.
3. Spin around on your chair 3 times saying "Gladys! Gladys! Gladys!"
4. Eat the chocolate.

(Make sure you perform step 3 before step 4, or nausea may occur.)

Now - if you didn't make the art charts, at least you still enjoyed the chocolate, right?
:lol:

:tt2:

I guess you've never see my desk, chocolate's already here but not for Gladys... ;)

Damn, i thought forum moderators were moderate, but seeing you hurting Gladys integrity like that is frightenning...
LOL

Quote - Yes, I've always wondered about the social aspect of Renderosity. The are obviously cliques of friends who support each others' work, but how are these friendships established? Is there a huge amount of IM-ing going on, that I'm not party too? Or are they friends in real life? Or is it all the result of posting a "Great image!!!" comment on every image posted? Somebody's got to be in loop. Please tell us how it works. -Alan

Well, there are people whom are better at social interactions, and those whom are not as good. Those whom are better at it tend to be able to push their images into more of a spotlight. The more their imagfes get see, if they are somwehat decent, they will become more popular.
Also, people with better social skills can sometimes come up with an image which in spite of it's technical shortfallings may appeal to wider audiences.

There's a strong 'social' and even marketing aspect to art, it's not all about skill and technique. That's the craft component.  

I mean, I can make a perfect image of the most beautifully crafted, I dunno, toilet seat, but if noone is interested in seeing it (or it lacks the charisma), then it's not going to make it.  Also, what may happen to someone with poor social skills it that even if they produce technically great and very appealing images, people may get put off by their behavior, and snub their artwork.

Conniekat8 - so basically your saying that despite a technically great image - if the person lacks the "social skills" (as you put it) - posters will act in a childlike manner and snub it because they don't like the person?!
WTF?
And don't confuse the marketing aspect of art to "kissing ass"

Quote - Conniekat8 - so basically your saying that despite a technically great image - if the person lacks the "social skills" (as you put it) - posters will act in a childlike manner and snub it because they don't like the person?! > Quote -  

You tell me, if someone pisses you off with something, or gets on your nerves in some way, are you able to step back, put that aside and give them credit for something that they do well?

Before you jump the gun and say YES, let me tell you that in basic human nature something like that is extremely difficult to do, and most people aren't very good at doing it. In spite of what they may 'say' of themselves.

I mean, look at your own comment, talking about 'kissing ass'. You're already prejudiced against what you consider kissing ass. For one, kissing ass is not an objective factual analisys of someone's behavior, but a highly emotional, subjective and prejudicial remark.

Now, let's suppose one of the 'kiss asses' happens to be able to produce a good technical image, and something with relatively decent mass appeal.

Seeing enough of human behavior in action (just watch people around you), I'm not inclined to believe that you would be able to set your emotional impressions of the person aside, and acknowledge the 'kiss-asses' good work.  
If you could, you'd extremely talented when it comes to social interactions, and not likely to use terms such as 'kiss ass' but be able to analyze behavior on both sides at little more depth, with little less personal value judgement attached. 

You confuse me though, on one hand, you complain about people behaving in a child like manner, and on the other hand you yourself use rather childis terms. This is where many people go wrong, they expect that everyone will behave properly, but for themselves take loberties to cross boundaries of proper behavior when they are emotionally charged for one reason or the other. Guess what, most people are like that.

Sure, most of us are taught that it's 'wrong' and will rather cut our own noses off then to admit that we have often behaved against what we know is appropriate or proper, and come up with all kinds of explanations about being angry, provoked or justified. But, the fact of life it that it's rather normal to be entangled in ones emotion's and relatively fequently cross the line of what is proper. You me, everyone else. It's normal. It varies in degrees from one person to another, but it is present in everyone whom fall under some general definition of 'normal person'.
What is 'right' is seldom attained, it's more of a paradigm to strive for, then something most people achieve at all times.

What is considered Art, what we like and dislike in other people and things they produce, is very susceptible to what I described above. I don't know if you hear od it before, often you'l catch comments where many of succesful artists are fequently praised for their understanding of human psyche. There's a lot of little crossovers between the two.

Whoa... 

Way to simplified. And not my experience at all. I have commented on images, because I genuinely liked them. Only to find one of two things occur... you get the thank you pm and you generally get a visit to the last image you submitted with a complimentary post. Tit for Tat. 

To break it down as people with a lack of social skills-- who have pissed people off are not getting views or comments disregards the vast majority of people who post to the galleries, belong to no clique and don't participate in the forums. In an Art Gallery, it might be nice if people got noticed for the quality and content of their artwork. (Yes, I'm deluded, but don't disturb me, I like my delusions)

I tend to think of the phenomenon as postcard art. People post and it's like they've sent out a postcard to their personal network of friends. Which is fine, I suppose. Just wish they find a different venue. Doesn't chat work now?

true about tit for tat. I don't think there are any deliberate cliques that are formed, but a normal group dynamic does occur.
People start liking some peoples expressions and images more then the others, sometimes they put them on your list of favorites...
I've done one or more of the following on a number of occasions:

-randomly look at the latest gallery posts, and comment on things that catch my eye (not always due to quality, but various reasons)

-Look at gallery posts for specific application or genre

-Look through artists I've favorited and see if they have anything I've missed.

-Lot of time I favorited artists not because of their work, but because of some interaction (advice, conversation) in the forum or in the gallery, and wanted to remember to keep an eye on their progress.

-Look at galleries of people whom participate in the forum, out of curiosity, and noticing images that maybe wouldn't catch my eye in the gallery alone.

-Made a gallery comment because I felt amiable towards a person, and wanted to give them encouragement for improvements I've seen, (as opposed to being awed with their abilities)

-There are people, although they can be counted on fingers of one hand, whom I dislike for specific personal reasons, and I don't look at their work. 

-There are certain genre that I'm very interested in, and others that I never look at. There's a number of people like that, so there could be an amazingly superb image in a genre that doesn't hold my interest, and it will never get the attention it's technical excellence deserves.

-I almost never rate images. I find 1-5 too constraining, and never know what to put, so I don't rate.

-In a crowd of some 3000+ artists, many times there are people whose art I would have never noticed had they not commented on my image. I'm not much into thank you notes or returning the favor of making a contrived nice comment as a matter of social norm, but I often do take a peak at their gallery, and depending on if or what catches my eye, I do make comments. Sometimes one, sometimes more, depending on the effect of what I see there has on me.

-WIth so many images being uploaded daily, it's hard to see all of them, and objectivelly pick out the best. Often it's a very subjective process. Personally, of the 'favorite images' on the art charts, lot of them don't end up being my favorites. It appears that my tastes are very seldom mainstream.

-I tend to not comment as much on image using very recognizeable popular props and figures - Alice being one example. Not because I don't like it, or that they're not good or deservig, but because I've seen so many, I'm on Alice overload... Byut yet I LOVE Aery souls work, and use it as one of personal standards I'd like to work up to.

-Sometimes I examine other people's favorite artists or images. I've discovered many of 'gems' that way, as opposed to random daily gallery browsing.

Those are just few of a number or personal reasons, habits and preferences that come into play when looking at and commenting on galleries. Whether conscious or not, it does affect most people. Looking at it from the outside, it can appear cliquish. For those whose art is really good, but for one or anopther reason doesn't get noticed, it can be frustrating and look contrived or fixed.

Now, to adress the 'lack of social skills' again, since it seems that the way it came across is perhaps not quite the way I intended it:
The way I see it, people whom lack social skills, find tit for tat tiresome, feel bashful or embarrased, or whatever the reason may be, or at the extremes by pissing people off (on a grand scale) end up limiting their chances of their work being noticed to only random gallery browsers.

As far as the quality of the artwork, I'm wondering how many people are qualified to judge it very objectively (I know for me, there's a lot of subjectivity involved - as I described above). How much can really be seen from the thumbnail? vs. how many people go and open every image to examine it. I've seen both, where the tumbnail was better then the picture, or where a great picture ended up having an uninviting thumbnail.

I agree with you on one point, it WOULD be nice if people got noticed for the quality and content of their artwork. Perhaps I'm too much of a cynic. I think the world just doesn't work that way, and rendo is just another small segment of it. I don't see it as a bad thing though, to me, it's just reality.

I thought we agreed that you were not to disturb my delusions...

All right, with them strongly back in place. No deliberate cliques, you say?

I see an image, like it and comment. I receive the tit for tat complimentary comment. I put 2 and 2 together and miraculously come up with 4. I favorite this artist. The next time they post, I post a complimentary comment.... guess what? Not only will I in all likelihood get another complimentary post... I'll probably be favorited as well. I see another image by a different artist, again I post, the cycle repeats. There is now an unofficial clique of the three of us. As I'm commenting on the images of my new bffs the odds are I'll see the same names posting over and over on all of their images. If I just reach out and touch a few of them, I'll be tapped right into the same network. And if I want to make the connection even quicker, I'll dedicate my image to them

Seems like a clique to me... In fact, it seems like a deliberate clique to me, but then I have a touch of the cynic as well. :tt2:

ahh, gotcha!

Considering that people in here tend to use the term clique with pretty negative connotations, when a clique is mentioned, I think of it as a group that is excluding all others, and is not open to new members and heavily biased towards the insiders. I don't think this type of clique formation happens here on rendo, or if it does, it's on a very small scale, not enough to affect art charts.

However, there's another definition of clique... (for my own benefit of not mungling it up, I'll borrow websters definition: group held together by common interests, views, or purposes) This type of clique is not a negative thing. By that definition all of rendo is one big clique, and each gallery and each forum etc etc is a small clique in itself. What makes it not negative is that I don't see activites of people deliberately trying to excluse one or another individual or subgroup. Heck, by the second definition, even the critique group is a form of a clique, and guess what, those too bashful to join in will suffer in small ways by missing out on good feedback. Not because we don't want them, or because we're bad or are deliberately excluding them... They'll miss out just because we are unaware of their desire to join, or their existance, till they speak up!

This is just what I'm getting at, people with lesser social skills whom arent as good and put themselves out less then your average joe do tend to suffer lesser exposure. This is normal in any social group, and not something that is easy to rectify by rules and regulations. Also, what is normal occurence is that people whom don't socialize as much feel excluded.

The difference is that they are not excluded because someone wants them out. Their lesser exposure (I think calling it exclusion is too strong of a term for what I have in mind), is a result of their behavior within the group. It's not the groups fault, so to say, and in that case I don't think it's objective to label this kind of a group dynamic with a term carrying negative connotations.

The difference is also how one would go about correcting the situation. When there's no premeditation within the group, it's near impossible to create a set of rules and regulations etc to get the group to behave a certain way (as it's overall behavior os a result of number of individuals). 
To try and improve standing of an individual, one will get better result if they educate or train  the individual that is falling behind, in how to promote themselves and make themselves more visible and likeable. 

With cliques (in it's negative meaning of the term) which are deliberately exclusive of other subgroups, this is usually a result of strong conflicting interests or a few charismatic individuals whom have charmed the rest of the participants. To remedy that, highly dysfunctional type of a clique, one would advise to dismantle the clique and remove the 'leaders'. Now, I think I said this already, I really don't believe this kind of a cliqueish dynamic exists on rendo.

Now, as for the same names posting over and over again, I believe as a result of some social behaviors that can happen, for some creatures of habit and safety. That too is rather normal.
For me personally, when it gets to artsy stuff, I get bored of the same thing, and even if I am close friends with someone, if they stagnate, I get little bored and branch out. My particular personality (at least as I see it) is not conducive to creating long standing cliques (normal, positive ones).   
As for the negative kinds of cliques.... muaaaahahaha, better watch out! ;)

Anyway, that's my semi-educated understanding of it all.

(okay, now I lost track of all I was saying, getting tired, close to the end of the day... time to stop rambling and send) LOL

oh, I just remembered, I'm in a big trouble for bad cliquish behavior, I dedicated an image to 'all of rendo'
[kitty runs and hides under the bed]

I'd love to have y'all as friends, but I'm too opinionated and keep pissing people off left and right. I fall in that no good social skills category.

It tickles me to see a Central European using 'y'all..;) but hey, I'm about as Southern as you can get..;)
I have to agree with her points, though. I tend to have my favorites, but I just look at what I like...

You can be opinionated with me.  Have a deal with all my good friends - Im blatantly honest them and they do the same with me.   I have trouble not just telling the truth - so it has to be that way.  Needless to say, my friend pool is pretty slim - most folks just dont work that way.

I hate to be got...

So let me just say this about that. I'm making this up as I go along so bear with me.

You work at a company that produces widgets, it's an office job. In theory, everyone stays productive company stays profitable, everyone keeps job. You're bored with your work, and begin to goof off, a couple of co-workers join you. The three of you are having a great time. Going to work has become fun. Others begin to notice and they want to have fun too. Sure, why not... You're not exclusionary, after all you all have the same interest --fun! United Widget Producers production suffers, there are pay cuts and layoffs and soon you have no job. Dang, that's NO fun!

I think that's the issue. It's not that anyone can't join the clique. I've given the recipe in an earlier post. But most people, who have poured their heart into an image and really achieved something remarkable, only to have it completely ignored or overlooked are about as irritated as the Widget worker who keeps his nose to the grindstone while everyone else is at play and still gets laid off in the end.

So maybe the word I want isn't clique, at the moment I'm too lazy to look for a new one. But there must be a word for a group of people who bond together in activities that are counter-productive to the environment their in...

And no... I don't mean "human"! :rolleyes:

Quote - I'd love to have y'all as friends, but I'm too opinionated and keep pissing people off left and right. I fall in that no good social skills category.

Who's pissed off? Have you been in another thread too?

They don't call them "threads" because they're for shredding kitty... behave!

Quote - There is what I call the "hug club" here at renderosity. A collection of cliques, whereby someone of said club posts a picture - despite it being good or not - ultimately gets an overwhelming response of: "great job, hugs" etc...ad infinatum from other members of the hug club.
Take a look at the art charts - there are pictures that deserve to be up there and there are pictures without any artistic merit what so ever. And before people get their panties in a bind - I am not talking about topic - I am talking about technique and skill.
Further to that, I've rarely, if ever seen any creative criticism advised.
If you see a picture with a title with a dedication to such and such person - that's a hug club.
Another way people do it - is by posting a comment on your picture - just so long as you do if for their picture. I've been IM by people telling me that they've commented on my picture and could I please do so for them.
There people that pump out multple pictures per week - the sum comments or favorites is tallied and inevitably gets said artist on the favorite artist board.
At the end of the day - the cream always rises to the top. If your artowork is good you'll get noticed and if it should be your choice. Paid work.
...and let the flaming begin...lol...

That's the same thing that happened to the now defunct "Hot 20".
Looks like "Art Charts" has taken it's place instead.

Quote - I hate to be got...

So let me just say this about that. I'm making this up as I go along so bear with me.

You work at a company that produces widgets, it's an office job. In theory, everyone stays productive company stays profitable, everyone keeps job. You're bored with your work, and begin to goof off, a couple of co-workers join you. The three of you are having a great time. Going to work has become fun. Others begin to notice and they want to have fun too. Sure, why not... You're not exclusionary, after all you all have the same interest --fun! United Widget Producers production suffers, there are pay cuts and layoffs and soon you have no job. Dang, that's NO fun!

I think that's the issue. It's not that anyone can't join the clique. I've given the recipe in an earlier post. But most people, who have poured their heart into an image and really achieved something remarkable, only to have it completely ignored or overlooked are about as irritated as the Widget worker who keeps his nose to the grindstone while everyone else is at play and still gets laid off in the end.

So maybe the word I want isn't clique, at the moment I'm too lazy to look for a new one. But there must be a word for a group of people who bond together in activities that are counter-productive to the environment their in...

And no... I don't mean "human"! :rolleyes:

I agree with you to a point, to a point where working in a company it's a controlled setting where we are obligated to certain performance in exchange for pay.
Here, on rendo, it's a more unconstrained group. Sure, it would be nice if more people rose to the standard of mutually beneficial and community enhancing behavior. I think I addressed that earlier, it is something that I see as a nice thing to strive for, but not something thatI'll get upseot over or feel left out or slighted if it doesn't happen. Perhaps I'm under the impression that there's a hefty dose of self serving and comfort seeking in human nature, and that social responsibility comes in as a pretty distant second or third.

In an uncontrolled environment, such as rendo (as opposed to the workplace) most of the weight of being socially responsible is left up to people self policing. In my experience, self policing in large groups, especially those revolving around enjoyable passtime or hobbies is pretty ineffective. It's usually more effective in sports and professional circles, where the consequences to the individual are greater if they undermine the group.

Here, if/when people undermine the group, the effects are not immediately obvious, but are more of a slow erosion kind of an effect.
I do understand what you mean though, appealing to a level of social responsibility within the group. I'm extremely doubtful that it's something that can be successfully promoted here.  But then again, it would be beneficial to rendo top prove this cynic wrong :)

Quote - Who's pissed off? Have you been in another thread too?
They don't call them "threads" because they're for shredding kitty... behave!

Oh, sowwy, I didn't mean you.  I was hinting to my own history... and especially my participation in few unmoderated groups few years ago...  and few situations at work, in my yourger days.

Well, even now, when I walk into the office in the morning, and someone cheerfully says 'good morning' I'm more inclined to grumble off a hey, or try to be funny by saying, what's so good about it. It's never intended personally, but it's not exactly enderaing behavior.
I think I can be a female version of Mr. Darcy at times. LOL

As for the other comment you made, about groups of people engaging in less then constructive behaviors... I'll have to bug my honey to use his degree in psych and see if there is a term... I know hwat you mean, but I can't think of one. 
In my case, it has to do with comfort, there are times when I'll choose comfort over minor destructive behaviors (like eating a big piece of chocolate instead of making the art charts offering)
Conflict of interests? Comfort vs. Social interaction vs. community benefits vs. energy levels.... I dunno, between trying to do the right thing and keeping things in own life in balance I'm ready to pull my hair out  in confusion on daily basis. At some point I tell myself do something, even if it's wrong, just do something. Before I get shipped off to Overanalyzers Anonymous...
(LOL, Like stop rambling - NOW!)

Quote - So maybe the word I want isn't clique, at the moment I'm too lazy to look for a new one. But there must be a word for a group of people who bond together in activities that are counter-productive to the environment their in...

Locust?
Okay, so, I'm being waay too much of an existentialist cynic here. I do have moments where humans seem like locust upon the earth. That's when I have a jar of Nutella and indulge in negative thinking LOL.

Quote - You can be opinionated with me.  Have a deal with all my good friends - Im blatantly honest them and they do the same with me.   I have trouble not just telling the truth - so it has to be that way.  Needless to say, my friend pool is pretty slim - most folks just dont work that way.

LOL, I hear ya. I was noticing your sig line for a while now, didn't find a good spot to comment on it yet. ;)
Pool of friends... Mine would make a small hot tub look spacious. ;)

Quote -
I agree with you to a point, to a point where working in a company it's a controlled setting where we are obligated to certain performance in exchange for pay.
Here, on rendo, it's a more unconstrained group. Sure, it would be nice if more people rose to the standard of mutually beneficial and community enhancing behavior. I think I addressed that earlier, it is something that I see as a nice thing to strive for, but not something thatI'll get upseot over or feel left out or slighted if it doesn't happen. Perhaps I'm under the impression that there's a hefty dose of self serving and comfort seeking in human nature, and that social responsibility comes in as a pretty distant second or third.

In an uncontrolled environment, such as rendo (as opposed to the workplace) most of the weight of being socially responsible is left up to people self policing. In my experience, self policing in large groups, especially those revolving around enjoyable passtime or hobbies is pretty ineffective. It's usually more effective in sports and professional circles, where the consequences to the individual are greater if they undermine the group.

Here, if/when people undermine the group, the effects are not immediately obvious, but are more of a slow erosion kind of an effect.
I do understand what you mean though, appealing to a level of social responsibility within the group. I'm extremely doubtful that it's something that can be successfully promoted here.  But then again, it would be beneficial to rendo top prove this cynic wrong :)

Well, okay, if you take me literally. Could have made the same analogy to a Community Center where they play Bingo, but one group wants to gossip... same effect.

I'm not posting a solution, I'm not even posting a call for a solution. Perhaps I misinterpreted, but it seemed to me that people within this thread have made remarks to the effect of this being an "okay" behavior. The first step in any of the legion of 12 step programs is you have to acknowledge there's a problem...

In the end it's up to Renderosity as the owners of this community to either act and try to change the system before all the better, best and dedicated artists decamp; or do nothing and watch their numbers dwindle. IMHO as long as they keep providing any system that leads to competition in the galleries they are always going to have this problem as people will always scheme for a way to be on top without having to actually exert any real effort to achieve that level.

Karen1573: What is a "exact logarithms" in this context? 

I think you mean algorithms !!

Logarithms must be Gladys birth name... Weird though...

Oops, yes, sorry!