I've purchased a few items from the store and download freestuff items that I'm shocked at the poly counts. I'm not going to mention any particular items but instead want to make a general plea to modellers to try your best to reduce polygon counts when possible, especially purchased items. There are times you need large amounts of polygons (like on curved surfaces etc..) but most of the time the multi poly smoothed surfaces I've seen could have been done with 1/4 the polygons with the same effects, some with just 2 triangles. Cylinder sections with 64 to 128 cap sections and sides, boxes with 128 to 256 faces across each face etc.. and these are small items on a much larger model. Now I know Poser likes hi poly surfaces for vertex lighting and shadow effects but there's a point where this becomes way unproductive. Some items obviously have way too many polys for what they are. Putting 4000 polygons on a tassle for a hat does no good what so ever. One item I grabbed a while ago was a valve handle (no larger than a human chest) yet it had so many polygons for the donut-handle part that my poser sat for several minutes loading it. 4000 polygons means 3 vertex coords (3 floats at 4 bytes each), 3 texture coords (again 3 floats at 4 byutes each) and three normals for each vertex (3x4). That 12+12+12=36 bytes per vertex. If poser uses one normal per face then you can drop 8 bytes. 36*4000=144000 bytes for that one item. Now I'm sure poser is using shared vertex tables and such so that cuts down on the poly count but if these are all unique vertices that's 144k of memory right there. Imagine that's one handle on a much larger machine. Our its four stands of hair on a wig. When modelling just ask yourself how important is the surface and whether a low poly version would work better. This will help a lot of user out there with slower machines and machines with less memory. Thanks

Heh, I have one of those slower machines and know exactly what you're talking about ;-)

Or at least give the option of a high or low model. That way everyone is happy. 8^) Marque

I generally agree, but there is the other extreme of the "shovelware" that pops up all too frequently.

:-) I'm smiling because up until now. I was the only person complaining about this. ScottA

Agreed Mikes I've seen some crappy stuff at the store. Usually the low poly stuff is evident by their thumbnails. What I hate are the surprise packages you download that look good but have 5 bizillion polygons.

Not a modeller but I agree on some of the chocking system things .. though I do like the millenium folk

Have actually seen stuff that was more than vicki and mike put together out there though for something fairly simple

Yeah yeah yeah, my models are too damned detailed :-P Anthony

I am sure you all have valid points. I try to keep my poly count low; but I doubt there low enough for games. Ultimatly you I do what needs to be done to get a good luck. One thing to consider is dazz won't accept models that have straight edges that have not been beveled or co-plannered both will increase the polly count. (This is due to the way poser handles edges, it can give it a unatural black). Have you informed the brokers they should try to lower their poly count? I would hope if some one had an issue with one of my products that they purchased they one bring it to my attention. So far only good responces :) You could always email the broker before you buy asking what the poly count is. If you saw to models of the same subject one looked twice as good as the other; but the other looked o.k. and included on thumbnail the polycount which was low. The price was a little more on low polycount model say 20% more. Which would you buy? Thanks Deimos. P.S. I must say one of my concerns is that I have 192 megs of Ram I suspect not every one has that much. That is why I am so happy that I have 3 Beta Testers minimum test usually test my stuff then the good folk at renderosity Beta test it as well.

To see what I mean about co-plannar and beveled vs straigh edges please look at this links. http://www.daz3d.com/pages/broker/brokerreq(pict).html

What is a good poly count for a conforming outfit? I try to keep mine under 50,000 for the entire outfit. Is that too much? I run 512mg of ram so it is hard for me to tell how much is too much. I have quite a few beta testers though and they have never told me the outfits choked their systems. Please let me know how much is too much and I will see if I can stay within that budget. Thanks Styxx

Well, I don't know if someone already had problems with my little models (I don't even know if someone used them, loll), but if it's the case I would also really appreciate to know it :) (I also run a quiet big computer - Athlon 1.2GH, 1Go ram, GeForce Ultra - so it's difficult for me to know :) J-L

I would shoot for under 25,000 for an entire outfit - clothing, shoes, accessories and everything but the figure and hair. Vickie is something like 26,000, her clothing should be less than that. Big polygon counts don't = good models, a lot of the time it = sloppy modeling, in particular using NURBs, I don't use them for that reason, I know PhilC doesn't either, as well. Sharp edges in Poser shouldn't be made with high poly counts, they should be made with a set of 3 edges close to each other, on the break of the edge. I learned a lot about edges and how Poser treats corners when I built the bicycle at DAZ, I think this model is detailed down to a rediculess level (there are rivets in the chain links, and the screws have slots, and the springs really coil), it got up to 30,000 polygons, the biggest I've ever had, but it could have been a lot bigger if I hadn't watched it.

For the two models I've done I tried to follow Daz's guidelines which are try to keep it under 30,000 polys. My thought was that if someone, like myself, is going to pay for an item they don't want 200 polys and a cheesy texture that is going to clash with the lighting effect on the figure. The glint on the barrel of the gun should match the highlights on the manical smile :-)) How about putting the polygon count(s) for the model(s) in the product description in the Store? A lot of other model sellers, like viewpoint, do that and you can choose between high and low polys depending on your needs. Texture sizes would also be nice.

I have also complained about NURBS derived models. The quick and dirty methods of conversion look to generate triangles and lots of them where sharp bends occur. Poser likes quads better than triangles. Poser can not easily smooth a triangle (if it can at all). A quad can flex. If I understand it, NURBS are great if they are used in a program that can render them also. (A lot of detail, small file size, ease of shapeing) But it takes a lot of skill and a lot of editing to get them converted to Obj and be something that is practical to use. Most of the time it may be easier to start in vertex and stay there.

The right NURBS program can do some great things. But if the user does not know how to export corectly, there can be probs.(I see this a lot) Rhino Can export a poly model with simlpe planes and sharp edges, it also takes advantage of triangles and quads. If you just stick with the default settings, your mesh will be too complex in areas that don't need it. But if you go into the advanced settings, you have a ton of control. Also, it's a good idea to Weld the mesh before export, As Poser tends to open up the mesh at the seams. Just my .002 :)

My opinion is that part of the skill is making efficient files.

Yep!