Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids, who probably don't even admire the hard work of 3d ?? Why not make it more realistic like a movie with elaborate stories and dramatic stuff, but for adults. just alike a real life PG13, or R movie. That's one thing.. the next is why they do all this cartoony comical animation of characters, which is not even funny.. perhaps only for kids. But seriously , when i've seen it , the comical stuff is pretty cheesy. Back to my main point.. why waste all your 3d effort and money to make a money for kids, who don't even admire the 3d work.. and don't yet understand it? For example lots of 3 year olds, and 4 year olds watch it. I betcha a Poser made low budget project would be just as fun and entertaining for kids. They do this alot now. Big 3d high quality film productions, but cheesy comical.. and for kids who might not even care about High textured, photorealistic characters. They gotta start putting their hard 3d work for people who are going to admire it.

I just seen it tonight, I did not think it was that cheesy. I went 4 adults and all liked it.  The funny thing is only me and one the other in our group was looking at the textures,lighting,effects and so forth.  I'd rate it a B+ to A -.

Why? It makes money for them and that is what counts in the biz. They have made a third movie out figures that they already have and did not have to spend as much work or money on the next two.

Kids don't care how it is made. Hell most adults don't give a rats a$$ how it was made. They go to see the story and have fun not anal-ize on the how.

As for cheesy comic, that sells at every age. I have not seen this one, I'll wait until it's on HBO or what ever movie channel it comes out on. But I have seen most others and I don't think that the comedy is cheesy, I even catch lines that only someone as old as me would catch the joke and only if you were aware of the situation that the joke referred to, quite often the 60's and 70's.

Also, what you might think is cheesy, others might think clever. Have you ever watched Kaena: The Prophecy. You might get what your looking for with that one.

***...but the whole animation and story is too Kiddy,, why?? 
*** Cuz it's a kids movie maybe!!!  The big companies (Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks...) are all mainly catering to child audiences...  the fact that grown ups enjoy them (non CGI types like us) is mainly due to the "grown up" popular culture references and music etc that usually goes over the heads of the younger viewers (remember Will Smiths character in Shark Tale yelling "You had me at hello" to Renee Zelweiger's character?).  Folks like us enjoy them for usually the 3D first (myself, maybe others here) and the aforesaid reasons.  Something like Shrek is most likely aimed at the youth consumers so they can get Mom & Dad to buy them the Shrek 3rd video game and Shrek 3rd Operation game and Shrek 3rd Cadilac Escalade etc...  Then considering something like Ergo Proxy (current fave anime) and Samurai Champloo & Cowboy Bebop (see my avatar baby?  YEAH!!) are aimed at older youth to adult audiences.  

The Shreks & Toy Storys and Finding Nemos are always gonna be cheezy and kiddy cuz that's what 99.9% of kids like!  And that's gonna make a lotta dough for the movie studios!

And on a side not...  Why oh why tebop do you start a potentially controversial flame bait-y thread every week!!!  I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've been noticing a trend in your posts in the last while...  that's just me!

Gerard

Oh and to add...  me and my 8 year old daughter went to Shrek the 3rd today and both enjoyed it for our own reasons!

Gerard

ooooh, I'm so jealous, I don't get to see it till tomorrow! 

Ok i guess bann my posts. I don't know what i can post or not.. It was related to poser because i asked why not use Poser and make it cheaper instead of going for big budget when kids are not gonna care abot the graphics so much? .. That's why i put it in poser forum. ok i have to accept.. go ahead and bann me. it's ok. i'll find another hobby :( bye bye everyone

tebop...  I wasn't trying to drive you away with my question...   I was curious as this post, your "not so good artists" post and a few other always seemed to turn into flame fests.  I suppose I'm just wondering if you're trying to be inflamatory on purpose or if you weren't aware of the way your posts can be perceived by some (myself only as I cannot speak for anyone but myself).

I apologise if you feel slighted by my question.

Gerard

cause  they tried and they flopped 

Final Fantasy anyone LOL< (I BTW Loved the FF feature)

Reboot was the one that got me to notice computer animation. The comedy was slapstick and a lot was aimed at adults. And there is a company that has made a name for themselfs creating low budget movies. They do the Hotwheels and Barbie and to many to name movies. MainFrame. Check them out if you have a chance.

I don't think your giving kids enough credit. I think if they saw a Poser rigged figure, they would say cheesy. My 8 year old nephew can sure pick a movie or TV show apart. They notice a lot more than you think.

I don't think poser would be very cheep when it came to production. You would need to post all the joints of every frame. You would need to have unique looking figures. whether you model them or modify canned figures.  There is the lighting and the materials and lets not forget the render times. It just makes money sence to use higher end apps that do more.

I'm a big CowboyBebop fan too. Still would like to have a Faye Valentine Character. I might make that my next project.

Attached Link: http://www.ergoproxydvd.com/

And about Bebop...  I've always been wanting to do some 3D Poser type stuff based on it but have never really got started on it...  Hmmm...  been wanting a new project...   BUT...  right now I'm hooked on Ergo Proxy...  gorgeous design from characters, colour & architectural types...   picked up the first 3 dvd's this week and can't wait for the next 3 in the next couple of months!!  I think it would be cool to do some Poser Ergo Proxy stuff too...  another Hmm...  need more time in life!!!

Gerard

Oh yeah, beryld...  do you remember the Sculder & Mully binomes???  Definately not kids stuff, yet on a kids show...  even way back then they were still catering to the kiddies and still giving some giggles to the grown ups!!  These companies must know what they're soing or something!!

Gerard

Yep, I was thinking that when I was posting. But there is something in every episode.

I get a kick out of Hack and Slash. Hockey. Blue and Red/ Leafs and Habs. A few Canadian references in the series. Now how many kids would have caught that. let alone, non Canadian adults.

Wish they would release the DVD's again.

You might as well ask, tebop, why people producing kids' films use such big name actors to star in them. I mean, for a fraction of the cost, you could get several lesser-known, lower-quality actors, and the kids wouldn't care, because they have so low expectations and criteria, right? They're only kids, after all - why should they care about the quality of someone's acting, or how much they commanded in fees to appear?

There are two driving factors in this: firstly, all major film companies (note the use of the word major here, mind) make sure their work is of a certain production quality. That's true whether it be live-action, traditional cel animation, 3d, whatever. And quality costs. You are never going to see a full-length professional production in your local multiplex that was conceived, animated and rendered in Poser, no matter what iteration or how advanced it gets. Why? Because just as Poser keeps advancing, so will all the higher-end apps, allowing for more to be done (besides, many of these studios use custom-built versions of software, allowing them to do stuff that no-one else can; it's another way of keeping your productions identifiable with your style).

Secondly... whilst it may be kids who put the bums on seats, it's adults who pay for the tickets and take their children. And adults want to sit through good quality films, not blocky, low quality animations thrown out by a couple of student in a weekend. The production quality has to be high in order to guarantee bums on seats.

Actually, I just thought of a third point, as well. Why do you assume that kids won't notice the quality of a productio like Shrek? Sure, they might not know all the technical terms for the lighting, modeling, rigging, and so forth: but they still know the difference betwen quality and crap. I have two kids of my own, and believe me, if something isn't up to snuff, they let me know about it. So suggesting that, just because your target audience is in a lower age bracket, you can somehow dial down your production values and skimp on money and quality, is completely off-beam. In fact, I'd say it's often the other way round - kids tend to be an even more demanding audience than adults, because they're less forgiving of what's put in front of them.

jonthecelt

tebop,  Er, becuse IT IS for kids? It's not intended for adults as far as I know. I don't see what the appeal would be for an adult. And something that extreme can not be made with Poser or any normal 3D app. That type of animation is done by the studio with far more than just a home computer running Poser on it. I'm fascinated by animation but not that kind. It's really not my type of movie anyway. I liked Ice Age better. :)

And it's summertime, kids will be out of school & the studios need to makeup for their loss with the crud they turnout all year so the kids movies are money makers for them. Whether they are poorly made or not, a family will go see it because it's better than what they turned out all year.

Hollywood can't do it on real movies anymore, so they make comic book movies & kids movies to make up for it during the summer. They have lost money this past year with all their flops. A cartoon will makeup for the losses much quicker than another clunker. They save all the good movies for this time of year because they know the parents will take their kids to go see it.

Quote - cause  they tried and they flopped 

Final Fantasy anyone LOL< (I BTW Loved the FF feature)

That was bad scriptwriting, not bad CG.....

Anyone remember planetary traveller?

If'n you want adult 3D fare, here's a couple suggestions,
Immortel, A French movie based on a Heavy Metal series (combo of Live action and Lightwave)
Renaissance, A French movie done in very cool black and white, software Maya
ReBoot, Canadain,seriously adult if you look behind the subtext
Delta State, Canadian French colab... rotoscoped but definately worh the look
Final Fantasy, spirits within, a very good first effort all things considered (except for the kiss which looked l;ike two volkswagens colliding)
Advent Children, Final Fantasy, really not for kiddlioes
Casshern, not fully computer gen but serious eye candy
and hey, you can always look into the Animation Section here at Rendo....not to mention that other site which deals with naughty bits.
there's a whole world out there that creates quality work, Hollywood isn't the only game in town.
and hey, do what a lot of us do.... create your own!

Shrek became a huge pop culture icon, bringing in millions of bucks... why NOt give o=it the "A list:" treatment? Seen any of the disney "direct to video" cheapies they vcrank out? God awful, and poor money makers compared with big blockbusters like Shrek that appeal to many different audiences on different levels. Shrek I and II are two of my favorite movies in the last few years.. they got the storys right, and the animation was spectacular.. that's why I can watch them over and over again.

Want to see a more "poser" like cgi movie? See Happily Never After...second string voice acting, second string cgi, second string storytelling.. I REALLY wanted to love that movie, but it just missed on almost all levels, and as a result, bombed at the box office.

There was a Red Riding hood cgio movie in the last year or so that also was done on the cheap, but had slightly better story telling, but also bombed.

Final Fantasy was beautiful, but the story appealed to almost no one, and it killed off the studio. I was really impressed with the new TMNT movie.. pretty damned good visuals, and storyline.. though the turtles voice acting bothered me for some reason on a few levels.

Only real "win" in cgi last year for me was Monster House... I really liked what they did with that. Barnyard was VERY Ho Hum, and Over the Hedge and ice Age II were just marginally better.

Give me Reboot: the Movie any old day, compared to some of these Shrek and Toy Story wannabes.

Tebop: We've all seen this before...if all your posts are all argumentive,and you are getting nothing but frustration from the forums,  you are "in" them too deep! Take a month sabbatical, go outside and ejoy life, and springtime, and come back refreshed, and more positive.

When you come right down to it a 3D movie made in Poser CANNOT be done without a million rendering computer farms all going at once. It's impossible & would take a lifetime to finish. Hollywood can take up to 4 years to make a animated movie just think how long it would take using something like Poser?

(MHO)

As a parent of a child who has made me watch Shreks (1 and 2) roughly 5000000000000000 times so far, I appreciate Shrek and the way they make it.  The CG gives me something to be interested in - the cheese keeps him interested.  

So far, I have actually liked them both alot and am REALLY looking forward to something new to watch with the 3rd.

I love all the animated movies - IMO nothing cheesy about them - I find them more entertaining than other junk that is out there atm.

amen, it's nigh impossible to find a movie these days without TA flying all about.  That's fine and dandy but when I get a chance to watch a movie it's usually with my kids.

In addition, if we go back many years to the original Walt Disney movies and catoons, kids then didn't realize what all went into that(I know I had no clue) - all the storyboards - all the hand drawing that was involved - the scripts etc etc.  Only as we mature do we learn to appreciate such talents :)

As a matter of fact - Happy Feet is my favorite movie right now - I think I've watched it at least 5x already.

My kids understand the 3D aspect.  And appreciate it.   ;)

A while back on tech tv there was an animation that starred a female character named Maya. Anyone remember that and if so do you know if it's available to view anywhere? Tried doing a search on G4 which is what they call it now, but only came up with references to the Maya program.
Thanks,
Marque

It's the start of the summer blockbusters. Turn off your brain for the next 4 months....

Quote - Have you ever watched Kaena: The Prophecy. You might get what your looking for with that one.

Oh no, that was a tough one. I had no idea what was going on. Had to be French. So gorgeous.

Ever see the animated series that was for a line of toys.... I think it was called Shadow Warriors, based on a toy line called Battle Planets? Long story arc, very epic, sometimes corny. All the characters were some unlikely combo of traits: military rock people, intelligent ice insects, fire skeletons(?), and courtly reptiles. There was a babe-bot from a water planet with a companion Vox.... I think the toys went straight to the discount bin, but the series was pretty good!

Maybe this was also from MainFrame? Looked sorta like ReBoot.

holly

Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids To make billions of dollars?

why waste all your 3d effort and money to make a money for kids, who don't even admire the 3d work.. and don't yet understand it?

yes your right. and we should keep those damn kids from seeing art galleries and hearing classical music until they are 20. keep it all for the adults thats what I say..

[/sarcasm mode : off]

Quote -

yes your right. and we should keep those damn kids from seeing art galleries and hearing classical music until they are 20. keep it all for the adults thats what I say..

[/sarcasm mode : off]

Dont' forget theatre, as well - can't have them exposed to any of the classics of literature, drama, film or televsion until they're of an age to appreciate it properly.. after all, it's only the technical expertise that counts, not the content or the entertainment or emotional content of such things that matters. No, keep them fed on dumb, stupid, zero-technique, zero-quality fodder until they're of a suitable age... and THEN we'll try and work out how the hell we're going to educate them into how to appreciate something they've never had any context for.

sheesh.

jonthecelt

Shrek is based on a children's book. The movies reflect that. Simple explanation really.

My kids are 11 and 13 and both of them love the Shrek movies, not only for the 'cheesy' storylines but for the 3d aspect as well. Don't forget, there are a LOT of Poser/3d users who are parents, so there are lots of kids out there who actually know all about 3d.

And you know, sometimes it's nice to sit back and watch a movie that's got a simple storyline, has no gratuitous sex scenes and has 'laugh out loud' jokes.

I LOVE kid movies and I'm really looking forward to seeing Shrek.  Sometimes it's nice just to sit back and enjoy the gentle things in life. 

Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids, who probably don't even admire the hard work of 3d ?? There is nothing preventing Hollywood and its international equivalents from doing precisely this. Personally, I'd like to see more films of this type also. However! Do kids have the same appreciation or understanding of the special effects work or hundreds of man hours that go into the costumes of a kid's movie like "Hook"? Probably not, but it doesn't prevent it from being made and enjoyed. Kids may never appreciate the singing talent that goes into a Disney film, either, that might otherwise be put to use on Broadway or in some other method, but it doesn't stop those talents from being applied in the Disney movie. A great deal of effort goes into a lot of movies that might not be appreciated for the sake or quality of the work involved by much of the audience, even if it's an audience of adults, so it what kind of work it is or what the target audience is never makes much of a difference to me in the end.

If it looks cheesy then maybe you should be wearing the 3D glasses while watching it? This version IS supposed to be in 3D. I saw the trailer for it. It looked good to me,  even without the wearing the 3D glasses so Im not understanding the cheesy part it's more campy than anything else.  It's that the idea behind it?

They actually had to decrease the realism on the first movie, intentionally. They had it too real and they didn't want that.

It's not just shrek, most CG movies of this sort are kid movies. Everything from pixar, disney, dreamworks and so on are all for kids, with some adult laughs thrown in for good measure. This is just how the western industry sees CG.

If you want more adult themes then there is always anime, which deals with much more varied stuff.

And we the audience get to enjopy both kinds of work, so it's all good...

Quote - ...If you want more adult themes then there is always anime, which deals with much more varied stuff./quote]

Don't forget Hentai.
DPH

I invoke rule 34 :p

Quote - I invoke rule 34 :p

"34. War is good for business."  ??

Rule 34

what rules are those? been on the net for years and never seen them lol

I work with the Rules of Acquisition...

I've never seen them numbered like that, though I've heard that statement going back well over a decade... probably longer than the places claiming to have created it (co-opted and popularized? sure, created? no) have existed at a guess.

I loved Final Fantasy. Graphics, animation AND story. But I agree it was definitely a bit too hard to understand for the big audience.

Giorgio

The reason why big-time movies are made kiddy-fied is a simple matter of cash.

Many people aren't aware of the fact that G-rated movies -- on the average -- make FAR more money than R-rated movies do.  And an NC-17 rating is the kiss of death, mass market-wise.  Sure, there are crowds who are attracted by such ratings, but the reality is that those 'crowds' represent a relatively small percentage of the market.

Surprising fact:  the first R-rated movie to ever break into the ranks of the top-20 money-making movies of all time was The Matrix Reloaded.

Hollywood has begun to figure this one out (dragged along kicking and screaming all of the way).  So.....one solution has been to give PG-13 ratings to movies which should actually have been rated R.  And thus 'fool' the public into going to see R-rated movies.

A G rating draws bigger crowds in the theaters.  A lot of people -- especially Hollywood types -- don't like to recognize that fact; and thus the movie moguls continue to turn out the type of material which causes their box-office reciepts to continue to plummet year-by-year.  The biggest crowds just don't find Hollywood-leftist politcal polemics (which should be categorized as fantasy) like An Inconvenient Truth to be attractive for entertainment purposes.  Why should people spend their hard-earned cash to go watch something that's boring and preachy?

Such movies are often touted by the press as great successes merely because they made more money than they cost to make.  While 'conveniently' overlooking the fact that they didn't make very much........in box-office terms.  No: the real crowds were going to see Shrek.

Sure -- you can feed a certain niche-market appeal with horror movies like Hostel 2.  But you'll never make Shrek-type money with movies like that.  You can only make Shrek-type money with movies like Shrek.  Which some people think rhymes with "Drek"..........and then you can get into an argument about the utter worthlessness of pop culture in general.

If the goal is to SELL -- then you give the people what they want.  Not what your ideology informs you that they should want.  That's a perception problem which a lot of people have trouble with.

There's lotsa major production companies which are perfectly capable of turning out R-rated and NC-17 - rated CG movies (used to be called "X-rated" -- the "NC-17" rating was developed to try to lessen the negative cash-flow impact of the "X").  And those companies would be perfectly happy to be creating those types of movies if they could make any money with them.

Well said, Xeno :), well said!

I've spent more money on Shrek and kiddie animated movies then on other cinematic 3D genres put together. $0 on anime. Very little on special effects in combat movies. Some on movies like Lord of the Rings and The 300.

Rule 34... Shrek... uh oh, Nooooo.... I need to quickly think of something else...  Boulder, that is a niice boulder...

Quote - If the goal is to SELL -- then you give the people what they want.  Not what your ideology informs you that they should want.  That's a perception problem which a lot of people have trouble with.

Unfortunately, some of it is pretty self fulfilling. Studios think that the audience wants kiddy G movies, so they produce them and promote them up the wazoo. People go see such movies because there isnt anything else on tap and they dont even realise you can have anything else. So of course the movie does well and the studios think the audience wants... and so on.

It is changing though as several hyped movies of this sort have flopped recently. Ant Bully was one big one that fell. Also polar express and that haunted house one. Happy feet got awards but it also barely did a profit. Flushed away, open season, also did mediocre business. The only one doing well consistently have been of course Pixar, but they produce the least kiddy fare of them all. Or if it is kiddy, the quality of their work makes up for it cause they rely more on deeply moving stories then snap talking animals doused in pop culture.

Also here's an interesting look at the whole thing... When you compare the largest online message boards:

Largest Online Boards

The largest one, a 7.5 million strong forum, is an anime themed board. There is nothing even close for all hollywood animated movies combined. Makes you wonder why some hollywood type isn't going after this market.

Why do we bother making anything at all for kids? They never appreciate any of it, especially the little ones, they are the worst! They should all just be locked in boxes, let then out only to go to school and to the bathroom (I aint cleaning those smelly boxes!)

Heck, ever seen a baby at Christmas? They toss out the toy and play with the box, so why put anything in the box at all? Perhaps we should just put the kid in the box and give it to the other kids, let them see what it’s like to be dissed first handed!

Now if Shrek, the donkey, and Princess Fiona got down for some hot and steamy threesomes; Now your talking about using 3D skills for something worth while! Perhaps if three little pigs and the gingerbread man had some real hankey panky going on with the witches and the ugly step sister - NOW WE'RE TALKING! And if the Big Bad Wolf did some real huffin and puffin and let Little Bo Peep do the blowin - NOW WE'RE TALKING!!

Personally I think Saturday morning is totally waisted on kids, they don't admire all the work that goes into those cartoons! Send them to work - Cartoon is MY Time!!!

(and NO, I aint jokeing either...)

Oh......nowhere did I say that EVERY G-rated movie is a roaring financial success.  Not all G-rated movies are created equal.  But what I did say was that in terms of overall earnings averages -- there's simply no comparison between G-rated fare and R-rated fare -- at least in terms of movies.

Quote - Unfortunately, some of it is pretty self fulfilling. Studios think that the audience wants kiddy G movies, so they produce them and promote them up the wazoo. People go see such movies because there isnt anything else on tap and they dont even realise you can have anything else. So of course the movie does well and the studios think the audience wants... and so on.

This represents the same sort of reasoning that one often sees put to use in those "how come people only want V4 stuff?" threads, where the specious claim is often made that the only reason why "V4 stuff" is so popular is because so many merchants make it.......which is like saying that the only reason why chocolate is so popular is because so many companies 'just happen' to manufacture chocolate.  Or the only reason why ice cream is so popular is because a lot of companies manufacture ice cream.  So -- according to this line of reasoning -- if only more companies would produce brussel sprouts -- THEN brussel sprouts would suddenly drastically increase in popularity over chocolate and ice cream.

Yeah, right.  And I've got a bridge in Brooklyn just waitin' to sell to ya..........

As for an anime board being popular......that's not in the least bit surprising.  Neither is the high volume of online adult-oriented traffic surprising in any way.  The reason?  It's because people much prefer to get their porn fix online -- where they at least have the illusion (and it is an illusion) of anonymity and privacy.  Likewise: a lot of people don't like to be seen walking into an NC-17 movie in a theater.  But they'll rent that same NC-17 movie on DVD from their local video store, and then watch it at home.  That's why certain movies do a lot better sales-wise on DVD than they do at the box office.  And that's why the old "adult movie grindhouses" are pretty much a thing of the past.

The largest market for adult stuff nowadays is online.  Not in movie theaters.

But even granting all of that -- Disney is a much, much bigger company than either Playboy, Inc. or Larry Flynt's outfit.

Quote - Also here's an interesting look at the whole thing... When you compare the largest online message boards:

Largest Online Boards

The largest one, a 7.5 million strong forum, is an anime themed board. There is nothing even close for all hollywood animated movies combined. Makes you wonder why some hollywood type isn't going after this market.

Online message board membership isn't really as massive a significator as one might expect. Heck, I have an account on Gaia... somewhere, since a friend of mine wanted to show me a thread there. I logged in all of that once and probably wouldn't ever be able to remember what user name it was under. Happens a lot on a lot of boards. It's also international so far as I know -- and 7.5 million accounts, while a big number for an internet message board, is a drop in the bucket for the US population not to mention world population. Disney has actually taken an interest in anime. They're the ones distributing Studio Ghibli's work in the US last I checked. It tends to be easier for US media companies to pick up successful Japanese titles and dub them (often badly), subtitle them, or just re-release them here than it is for them to develop something themselves that has a similar feel or mood and have it produced. I have a feeling that may change when the current crop of artists, writers, and animators that's likely in college now hits the job market; it's a substantially stronger influence now than it was even ten years ago, not to mention twenty. Twenty years ago, I used to know which stores on my coast carried anything related to anime. Now, there are more than that carrying anime and related merchandise in a 10 mile radius. Food for thought, you know?

And how to explain the non-stop production of CGI "cute animal" movies? Last year we had "On the Farm" (or whatever it was called), "The Wild" (by Disney), "Happy Feet", and this year we have "Surf's Up" (yet another movie with penguins). How many of these movies do we really need?
 
Or do the CG artists want to make animal movies to show off their skills? "Look, animated fur!" "Look, photo-realistic water!", "Look, realistic trees and grass". Who says we need a plot or a storyline? Everyone will be so amazed at the life-life animation that they won't care about the story.