Hi DJLLAV

My name is Patorak,  and I'd like to welcome you to the Renderosity community!  

Cheers,
Patorak

Hi DJ, Welcome and thank you for stopping by :)
I'm glad this whole thing is turning into a friendly interaction between the communities. :)

Hello Patorak and Connie, thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I too am glad that the thread on 3D buzz has allowed an introduction to each respective site. To argue over a tool is pointless and defeats the real things that matter--the artist and his/her love for what they do!

Stop by over at 3d Buzz and give Jason and the guys a hello! They love to see new works of art over there. I think Jason has actually had a few pieces of art from Renderosity on the 3D buzz daily news in the past. I would love to see more of what you guys do! I am very impressed by the quality I have seen here, as I myself probably could not attain it! Right now I am taking Buzz's XNA 101 extreme class, so it keeps me busy. But, I do hope to get into more 3D based art very soon. I will definatly be coming back for some tips and advice!

Hi DJLLAV

Thanks for the invite.  I'll stop by later tonight.  I agree about the tools.  BTW checkout Renderosity's  developers forum and the thread Plain Jane ( back on track ) for my latest WIP.  

You know,  the most fun I ever had in art was with an 8 pack of jumbo crayons and my parents living room walls.

Cheers,
Patorak

Quote -
You know,  the most fun I ever had in art was with an 8 pack of jumbo crayons and my parents living room walls.

Oh, LOL, you did too?  Too cute! 
Walls were never safe around me, till I moved into my own place, then I started hanging newsprint or canvas on the wall, rather then bare walls.
Desks however are still not very safe around me, neither are monitor frames. I still have my box of crayons :D

Welcome to the site, DJLLAV.

And I agree with your remarks in regards to 3D tools, and their use.

Connie,  LOL!

Hey XENOPHONZ

How's it going?

It's goin' great, patorak. :biggrin:  If I can just get my lighting in line, then it'll be going even better...........

I'd really like to see a 'pro' version of Poser for animators. Both hair and cloth are almost up to snuff; add some form of softbody dynamic and improve the rigging scheme, and at least 12 of us would be in heaven..... :D

i am nearly in heaven, also.

I've put a lot of time into investigating taking Poser content out to Motion builder, Vue, Carrera, Max, XSI, trueSpace, etc., for power animation tools, lighting and render....it does not look good.
http://www.turbosquid.com/Forum/Index.cfm/stgAct/PostList/intThreadID/19974

Late last year I gave Carrera a real professional ride...dynamic hair and cloth do not translate, and speed of render -- once you build realism back in to Carrerra -- is not the big deal people make it out to be. During this last week I got a Poser scene to upload into POSE-Ray/POV-Ray, including dynamic hair. The render of the hair was abysmal, time wise, and no one is working in soft shadows in POV-Ray. 

I'd LOVE to stay in Poser for animation and render.  Hey E-F at least give us tangents with handles and some form of "stick in place" for feet and hands better than parenting.

Alternatively, something REALLY GOOD for in-out, like FBX Export out of poser into MotionBuilder (perhaps they could be convinced to resume publication of their 5.0 version or a reduced-set of the current, for, say, $500) and then back into Poser. MotionBuilder would not need to be asked to tackle dynamic hair and cloth, just facial expression and body movement, then back to poser for hair and cloth sim, render (hey can we get VRay in poser?).

Hey dale, i am not one of the 12 professionals yet....but my vids will be coming to the surface over the rest of this year....and you'll have to raise the number to 13.

:::::: Opera :::::

What are you lighting?

Just some scenes in P7.  I'm experimenting.  The experience is a mixture of elation and frustration.  The goal is to get past the frustration part.

I'm still on P6.  How do you like P7?

In a short phrase: I wouldn't go back to P6.  I like P7 a lot.  I apologize for not going into more detail, but I'm kind of distracted at the moment.  Between LW 9.2, P7 and some other matters I'm (once again) wishing that there were 48 hours in each day.

So to put it bluntly: I can do more in P7 than I could do before in P6.  And that pretty much sums it up.  Perhaps we can discuss the in's & out's in more detail later.....I'd like to.

Sounds good.

Quote - Hey dale, i am not one of the 12 professionals yet....but my vids will be coming to the surface over the rest of this year....and you'll have to raise the number to 13.

:::::: Opera :::::

The 'Poser 12' is a joke of years. If you look at threads from years agone, it seemed like out of all the Poserverse, no matter where you looked....there were only 12 animators. Or 12 people who even knew you -could- animate with Poser. Or 12 people who knew how to find the dopesheet and timeline. Never mind knowing about interpolation, spline editing, etc. And there will never be more than the Poser 12!! Yet it is a tesseracting field containing an infinity of users, Borg like in its ability to assimilate.....! Either that or its like 12 timesharing condos..... :P

I my 'other' world...educating loan officers....we call it churn.

In yet another world, I once wrote a management program for a mortuary. I called it "bodies in, bodies out."

:: og ::

:Exits Lurk mode:
Forgive me but why this inane emotional attachment to  compiled electronic
Compute Data sets?? and this insistence on vehemently defending them
against the "unfair" attacks of the "elitists"

This devotion to a  peice of man made "technology" borders on evangelical worship
Boastful users of MAX, Maya XSI et al ,are NOT your Enemy
you enemy is...... TIME.

We are All Dying at some point in the future so by default the human being is losing!
with each passing moment spent  repeating these tedious  arguments
is a moment missed forever moment you werent setting up a scene creating some textures
editing an animation etc  or..... (Shocker) getting some fresh spring AIR!!

I frankly believe that if we  could  miraculously remove/ ban  ALL "3D character Software"
Except Poser...

the Poser "community" would assuredly and quickly divide into various Sects and go at war with itself the "Possette" lovers VS the Vicky lovers  etc
in fact we see that nonsense in existence already.
which indicates this issue is never truly about which "Computer data set" ( Software) is better.
 but is inevitably about the  rapacious need of the ego gratification of winning Arguments.

: re enters Lurk mode shaking his head ruefully:

thank you for sharing

Hmm, 12 people animate in Poser?

I animate in Poser  so that makes 13. ;)

Full movies not just short ones with music and talking figures.

Besides all those other programs are Modelling programs they're not just animating. I dont think they should count.

Poser poses characters, lets me make walk cycles & talking figures & does more for the animator than a modelling program in my opinion. I just want to animate not model.

Look at the closeup of the corner of the door. Look in the corners of the carved panel. See how the grain switches direction and how the panel is partially miter jointed as well as the full miter joint on the door frame.

I also improved the fillet - look at the edge and corners of the table, and the little box in front of James. The corners are now spheres.

Simply AMAZING :)))

gotta love those rounded edges (when wanted) right on BB!

Would you say a set made of such props will take AO and normal shadows well in the cracks and such? It looks to be true from that render.

I bet once you get this thing recreating straight and true boards and grain, with control of verticle and horizantal, that it will be relatively easy to back-build various noise and knots and dings, etc.

Really linking this.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - > Quote - Hey dale, i am not one of the 12 professionals yet....but my vids will be coming to the surface over the rest of this year....and you'll have to raise the number to 13.

:::::: Opera :::::

The 'Poser 12' is a joke of years. If you look at threads from years agone, it seemed like out of all the Poserverse, no matter where you looked....there were only 12 animators. Or 12 people who even knew you -could- animate with Poser. Or 12 people who knew how to find the dopesheet and timeline. Never mind knowing about interpolation, spline editing, etc. And there will never be more than the Poser 12!! Yet it is a tesseracting field containing an infinity of users, Borg like in its ability to assimilate.....! Either that or its like 12 timesharing condos..... :P

What I want to know is this: who do you have to assassinate in order to free up one of the allotted twelve slots?  So that you can then assume their High Office?

I'm not so sure that I'd want to occupy one of those slots.  Because once there, then you'd have to constantly be looking over your shoulder for the assassins who'd be after your slot among the 12.

Think we'll have to erect a  statue for you in the Poser Hall of Fame Bagginsbill !

Why don't we have a Poser Hall of Fame?  These exceptional people  who over the years make Poser extend itself way beyond the neato little program it would otherwise remain.

A gigantic Hurrah for yu all !!

I thought I replied but it doesn't seem to be here. If I duplicate my answer, please forgive.

AO works with displacement cutouts, but it's not needed. The image was done without AO. There is IBL without shadows and two infinites with shadows.

I do a few trickes in the shader faking AO because I know where the cutouts are. I darken those places. And for the most part, they work just fine using the straight up Diffuse calculation.

I'm making the shader have multiple modes - you choose how you want. No raytracing? No problem - I'll fake the AO. See the wall panels - they are fake beveled - no geometry. The floor boards have real bevels. You can't really tell the difference.

Quote - Why don't we have a Poser Hall of Fame?  These exceptional people  who over the years make Poser extend itself way beyond the neato little program it would otherwise remain.

Yes......let's erect statues!  All of them standing in the T-position, and with blank stares on their faces!  It would be a badge of honor!

(bald heads, too......)

Very cool so you can have this type of prop work right if you have raytrace on or not. Terrif.

There are currently 50 parameters - and more to come.

 BoardLength = 72
 BoardWidth = 6
 BoardOffset = 0
 BoardOffsetVariation = 0
 
 RingsPerInch = 5

 GrainVariation = 5
 GrainJitter = 0

 CoreAxis = 1

 WoodColor1 = IColor(197, 136, 45)
 WoodColor2 = IColor(230, 174, 94)
 WoodColorBias = .5
 RandomDarken = .1

 StainColor = IColor(150, 83, 38)
 StainStrength = .7
 StainOpacity = .1

 StainSpan = 0
 StainSpanInterval = 20
 StainSpanIntervalVariation = 20
 StainSpanMin = .3
 StainSpanMax = .7
 StainSpanTransition = 2

 StainMottle = 0
 StainMottleSize = 50
 StainMottleBias = .5

 Bevel = 0
 FakeBevel = 0
 Gap = 0
 Miter = 0
 Butt = 0
 Fillet = .1
 Chamfer = 0
 ChamferColor = None

 Panels = 0
 PanelContour = None
 PanelTop = 0
 Panel2Top = None
 Panel3Top = None
 PanelBottom = 0
 PanelLeft = 0
 PanelRight = 0
 PanelOpacity = None

 Reflect = .25

 Seed = 1

 X = U
 Y = V
 Scale = 968.992188
 XScale = 100
 YScale = 100
 InchesPerX = 10.3200005
 InchesPerY = 10.3200005

Attached Link: LAVA planet

A search of the history here will show that indeed it was I
who asked Steve cooper (formerly of curious labs)
about  any new animation features in poser-5  during the
the now infamous pre release poser-5  hype that frenzied these forums years ago

It was during that time that I first  said "any new features for me and the other 11 poser users who actually animate??"

from then on some people began  jokingly referring to me as
the founding member of "the 12 animators"

not using poser much at all these days  as  interposer Pro/Cinema4D has made the
the need to spend time in poser somewhat moot
 I am more into effects,compositing and DVD production

like in this simple walk test animation render in DAZ studio
and Composited in Autodesk Combustion for OSX 

Nice little .mov there, Wolf! What's the learning curve on C4D like? And you do realize that you are going to have to watch out for Xeno from now on.... :P Besides, just think of the legend you spawned.... The Poser 12; CG's Dirty Dozen. Or looked at another way.....it's all his fault....

You know what is sad? People fighting over art!!!!!!!!!!!! You know some of these people who use these High end programs. Not all but some I wonder if they can even draw? I grew up in a house hold where art was fun. I am into many variations of art. I play guitar, paint, draw, sculpt,and am recently into the 3d art realm. I want my children to grow up loving art. Fighting over whos app is better or who is better because "I made an original character" Is not the way to teach new people to this community!!! If you can afford the big high end programs great!!! Good for you!!! If you make money doing this stuff I say bravo you have a gift and are being blessed in your talents!!! For me I live in a highstress enviornment right now called War!!!! I enjoy using poser  wich I am very new too to release my stress and get over the fact that I am missing my 3 children all under the age of 5 grow up!!! I don't have the time or money to buy and learn programs like 3d max and stuff but im doing with what I have and can!!! With the little time that is afforded to me in life right now!!! Bash me all you want to because im a poser poser!! Please critique my work!!! I want to learn and learn how to become better!! Now if you are bashing to symply be a J*%$ @$$ I don't even care to know you! I enjoy art and I think it is great and should be very rewarding to those who are talented enough and kind enough to put there models out for free and see them used in many many differant ways!!!  I thank those out there for it!!! I have seen some pretty rediculous so callled art out there make people lots of money just because that person made a name for themselves and decided to do somthing sick like smear crap on a canvas!!!! You know what if it is pleaseing to them and someone else then who is anyone to say other wise!!!

Well, people don't realize how lucky they are to have all these computer programs. When I was in school, it was all done by hand. PCs were not even a twinkle in Bill Gates eye, LOL!

i love this multi-threaded thread! 'Yes we can hold three conversations at once.'

There are certain implications in bagginsbill's project having to do with speed of render, not to mention flexibility of interior design. It would take some getting used to, perhaps a paradigm of 'painting virtual planks and texture with shader brush" or something like that. 

For wood, if you get grain with variety, easy tweaking of the stain, control of the bevel of every edge and reflection, and you can do this without much geometry and without lighting geometry, your render can be very fast, I'd bet. 

Add to that no real AO and perhaps raytrace not necessary, yet you get the requisite shadows and 'dirt' in corners and seams....I'd say this is a poweful interiors and set system that is through the envelope. I look forward to learning it and 'constructing' a set with it.

Note: on your May 23, 2007 3:31 pm post   [[I WISH THESE POSTS WERE NUMBERED]] note there is reflection on the two top surfaces, let you are saying there was no raytrace on. Looking forward to seeing how that figures in.

::::: Opera :::::

Croyoc, your words are heard. I would add for balance: Some of the responders reacted badly and showed 'modeler chauvanism' and disdain for me and for the Poser world. Most of the people reading and responding to my post at 3DBuzz retain flexibiltiy of mind, however. I cannot speak for the hundreds of lurkers.

Frankly, the best case we can make for Poser being a valuable 3D app for creating art is to continue to turn out better and better results.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - "Why don't we have a Poser Hall of Fame?  These exceptional people  who over the years make Poser extend itself way beyond the neato little program it would otherwise remain."
 

    Quote Xenophonz: "Yes......let's erect statues!  All of them standing in the T-position, and with blank stares on their faces!  It would be a badge of honor!

    (bald heads, too......)"
   
   
That would be too cruel    :) 
How about  Bagginsbill standing on a wooden pedestal with drapes of fabrics done in his mats and say one of  Ockham  playing py buttons like a mad pianist.  Ajax whipping tentacles or whatever around  and Dr Geep with his foot victoriously atop of NaySay guy.  DPHoadley could be poking his head out of a web of flattened mesh, Trekiegrrl sitting amidst a jumble of everyday bits - on-and-on.  I can think of a few funnies and quite a number of people in the Poser community who'd be fun to immortalize along with a list of their accomplishments and contributions.   SnowSultan a Z toon figure with a color code running down his sides...

So who would you add in the Poser Hall of Fame?

I would add face_off. Not just because his skin shaders are the best, but because he has been so helpful in the forums. Since he became a dad, he hasn't got time to participate (hasn't posted since December 17 last year) but his body of contributions in 815 posts is outstanding.

This is my 919th post - I'm planning a mindbending posting for my 1000th. :biggrin:

OG:

The render you refer to did use reflection. I didn't mean to say you don't ever need it - the only way to see the vase on the table is to use reflection. What I meant was that I will provide mechanisms to use an environment map instead for general scene ambience, and that I'll include a few purely procedural environment maps in the script.

cool

I've started a new thread for the Poser Hall of Fame as it - along with the discussion of bagginsbill's new wood shaders-  is getting buried under this subject title  and more people should see both :)

Chhers
Masha

Not the tool is important.What you do with it is.
You are right and they are right.
As someone here already said (MissNancy) you canot pretend to be an artist as long as your Poser renders are some crappy V3 big boobs renders or alike.and no , the 3DS/Maya users that just wrap other's textures on "their" models aren't artists either.
But are very good Poser/3D Studio Max/Maya/and others artists out there that make outstanding works.Those are the persons that suceeded to master the tools , no matter wich they are.And I bow in front of artists like bagginsbill here...
In conclusion , as long as you do only low level works with others models (even purchased) you have no right to call yourself an artist.You have to get out something that is your own and that is preponderent in the final artwork.
If you will look to my gallery , you will see the same crappy renders just like the other 95% Poser renders around here.And because of that , I don't have the pretention to call myself an artist.
But I have artworks at wich I am currently working that are comprised mostly of my work and very few to none of others (models and stuff).Also , I am working at my own line of organic models and when I will release it , I will make artworks comprised only of my own models (both organic and anorganic).Only then I can call myself an artist.And I will , proudly!
But until then more time will pass...
As for the starter of this thread , I think the work he/she posted on the first page is pretty good and he can call himself an artist by doing that type of artworks.If that is one of the artworks criticised as being made in Poser , then yes , I adhere to the opinon that it's unfair treatment.Anything else below that level...well , are just Poser crappy so called "artworks".
Just my opinion.

Best regards!