Back when I was a kid, 'anime' consisted of Tobor, Speed Racer and Johnny Cypher.  Although it wasn't called 'anime' back then.  In fact, I don't think that there was any specific name for the genre, at least in the US.  Perhaps "Japanese animation".

( (I still remember the old elementary school version of the Johnny Cypher theme song......."Johnny Cypher.....wears a diaper..........!"))

*How many of these movies do we really need?

*there's at least one more Shrek and Puss in Boots is getting his own feature....

There's a prehistoric monster
that came from outer space,
Created by the Martians
to destroy the human race.
The FBI is helpless.
It's twenty stories tall.
What can we do?
Who can we call?
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Faster than a rocket!
Quicker than a jet!
He's the mighty robot!
He's the one to get!
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Quick, call Tobor,
the mightiest robot in the land!
-Richard Ranke 1954

Quote - Or the only reason why ice cream is so popular is because a lot of companies manufacture ice cream.  So -- according to this line of reasoning -- if only more companies would produce brussel sprouts -- THEN brussel sprouts would suddenly drastically increase in popularity over chocolate and ice cream.

I never said it happens overnight, but it is the sort of cycle that you drift into and then it becomes self sustaining. To use your brussel sprout analogy, if they started hyping and pushing brussel sprouts everyday, you can bet they could sell them like chocolate. I mean if they can sell worthless people like Paris Hilton to the public, brussel sprouts are a much easier subject :)

Quote - But even granting all of that -- Disney is a much, much bigger company than either Playboy, Inc. or Larry Flynt's outfit.

Except that disney has not made a hit CG animated movie in decades. The only profit they have made from animation is by releasing Pixar movies and their theme parks. Which is why they recently handed large parts of their animation section to pixar hotshots to rebuild.

Also note i wasn't talking about porn here. Not being family friendly doesn't automatically make something pornographic you know. There are plenty of mature subjects you can tackle, without ever showing a boob or a butt. Look at Miyazaki's amazing animations like Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa to see brilliant examples. Or Iron giant or Grave of the Fireflies. They are anime, but none of them have any sexual content. Not even a kiss. But they deal with loss and war and love and pain. Subjects which you cant always share with kids, but which even non horny adults can enjoy.

Of course i don't really expect the hollywood which is making this:

(Clicky...)

...to change it's mind, but as long as we have our japanese brethren to produce whatever wonderful (and yes even perverted) stuff they want, we can at least have a wide variety to choose from.

you guys!   You made me try and google some stuff about anime ;)
I found what's written on wikipedia quite interesting.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Current_reception_in_the_United_States

Current reception in the United States

AnimeNation’s John Oppliger had this to say on the matter:

The support for anime among American anime fans is very strong. The availability of anime in America is truly impressive, especially within the anime fan community. Awareness of Japanese animation in America is at an all time high. However, mainstream acceptance of anime in America lags far behind the advances anime has made in other respects. A close examination of the support for anime on American television may provide a revealing and realistic gauge of the actual penetration of anime into America and American culture. Anime may seem like it's tremendously successful in America because its high profile, but the facts tell another story.

According to AC Nielsen, Pixar's The Incredibles sold 16 million copies on DVD in America last year. Shark Tale sold nearly 10 million copies. Even the DVD release of Bambi sold 6 million copies in 2005. In comparison, all four Inuyasha movies combined have sold just over 1 million copies in the past year and a half. Evidently, the success of anime in America is very relative. American anime fans are very devoted. Through underground means hardcore American fans now have access to brand new Japanese anime before even many Japanese residents do. America's anime fan community is influential because it's affluent, intelligent, and motivated; but it's not very large.[10]

—20px, 20px

Despite assessments like that, and its rare and limited release in American theaters, anime's legitimacy and respect in North America has grown well enough to garner major native artistic awards such as the Academy Award for Best Animated Feature in 2002 for Spirited Away by Hayao Miyazaki. Anime has a dedicated fan following in English speaking countries, particularly active on the internet, and at conventions regularly held throughout the US and UK.

Bck to my own commentary:
It appears that Anime doesn't have enough of a following to support a feature length movie release at regular box office. I'm sure if it did, they would have done it already.  Also, with lack of anime in theaters, of the interest is high, one would think that the DVD would be selling like hotcakes. Looks like they are not. 

:blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

Quote - I never said it happens overnight, but it is the sort of cycle that you drift into and then it becomes self sustaining. To use your brussel sprout analogy, if they started hyping and pushing brussel sprouts everyday, you can bet they could sell them like chocolate. I mean if they can sell worthless people like Paris Hilton to the public, brussel sprouts are a much easier subject :)

That bridge in Brooklyn is a really great deal.....!  It's a steal at the low, low price of $50,000.99!

No amount of advertising will sell grilled, chopped-up earthworms as a worthy high-protein substitute for beef.  It just ain't gonna happen.

As for Paris Hilton -- a certain sector of the public always has an insatiable appetite for watching people self-destruct.  The fascination with Paris Hilton is a phenomenon not too far removed from a crowd of people gathering under someone on top of a skyscraper roof and yelling "jump!  jump!  jump! -- but be sure to set yourself on fire first!!!!!!" Humans can be like that.  Personally, I don't find Paris Hilton to be attractive: even on the purely physical level.  But some people do -- and watching a pretty woman destroy herself is even more fun than watching an al qaeda beheading video on the internet.

Quote - Except that disney has not made a hit CG animated movie in decades. The only profit they have made from animation is by releasing Pixar movies and their theme parks. Which is why they recently handed large parts of their animation section to pixar hotshots to rebuild.

I don't recall Larry Flynt making any hit CG movies, either.  Disney's got other problems beyond just their movie divisions.........between internal company politics and some not-so-family-friendly policies that they've instituted in recent years, they've managed to seriously hurt themselves.  Plus they've made some truly awful movies, to boot -- which hasn't helped matters any.  But they are still known for what they are primarily known for by most of the public.  And partnering with Pixar or not -- Disney is still a much larger company than Playboy.

Quote - Also note i wasn't talking about porn here. Not being family friendly doesn't automatically make something pornographic you know. There are plenty of mature subjects you can tackle, without ever showing a boob or a butt. Look at Miyazaki's amazing animations like Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa to see brilliant examples. Or Iron giant or Grave of the Fireflies. They are anime, but none of them have any sexual content. Not even a kiss. But they deal with loss and war and love and pain. Subjects which you cant always share with kids, but which even non horny adults can enjoy.

I wasn't impling that you were necessarily talking about porn -- but I was.  And in doing so, I was pointing out some of the reasons as to why 'adult' fare doesn't fare so well at the box office as compared to 'kiddy' fare.

As for adult-themed but non-sexual CG animated features -- while it's true that there is a certain segment of the market to whom such movies appeal, it's also true that this market segment represents a solid minority.  And while it's also true that the anime minority isn't as 'minor' as it was 20-some-odd years ago -- it's still not precisely mainstream in the US.  But who knows?  Maybe anime will become mainstream in another decade or two.  After all -- Japanese steak houses are quite popular.  Even though the food served there isn't authentically Japanese.  So perhaps we'll eventually see movies like The Spirits Within making a megahit.  But those types of movies don't do that now.

Quote - Of course i don't really expect the hollywood which is making this:

(Clicky...)

...to change it's mind, but as long as we have our japanese brethren to produce whatever wonderful (and yes even perverted) stuff they want, we can at least have a wide variety to choose from.

Oh, good.  I'll need to be sure to go camp out in line to see this one as soon as it opens.  But in the meantime, I'll keep myself entertained reading tabloid articles about Paris Hilton.

(Yeeech)

Thanks for the article quote, Connie.  I see that we're thinking alike.

Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

Saying that CG houses are following a trend by all the 'cute animal' films coming out doesn't really work, either. In live-actionfilm, it's relatively  easy to spot a trend, find a script, get it greenlit, into production, edited and out in the cinemas within a comparatively short space of time - short enough to take advantage of a trend within the cinema-going public. For an animated efautre, whether it be cel- or CG-animation, the lead-in time is so much more, with production timelines of several years, that it's impossible to pick up a trend and knock out a movie in time to take advantage of it. So the current focus on penguin characters in animation, from Madagascar to Happy Feet to Surf's Up are just a zeitgeist of some kind. Either that, or the inter-studio network is so riddled with corporate espionage that everyone is plundering everyone else's ideas during production - which isn't really that likely now, is it? 

jonthecelt

But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.
Now, if you can figure out how to do THAT, you may have just gotten yourself a get rich quick scheme! Well, actually a really solid plan, not just some shady scheme!
The next one would be how to make teenagers do their chores...

Quote - you guys!   You made me try and google some stuff about anime ;)
I found what's written on wikipedia quite interesting.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Current_reception_in_the_United_States

Current reception in the United States

AnimeNation’s John Oppliger had this to say on the matter:

......

According to AC Nielsen, Pixar's The Incredibles sold 16 million copies on DVD in America last year. Shark Tale sold nearly 10 million copies. Even the DVD release of Bambi sold 6 million copies in 2005. In comparison, ALL Four Inuyasha movies COMBINED have sold just over 1 million copies in the past year and a half. Evidently, the success of anime in America is very relative. American anime fans are very devoted. Through underground means hardcore American fans now have access to brand new Japanese anime before even many Japanese residents do. America's anime fan community is influential because it's affluent, intelligent, and motivated; but it's not very large.[10]

—20px, 20px

Hmmm, numbers there look a bit Sqewed perhaps....?
Just a thought, but if Bambi sold 6 MILLION in just 2005 and the anime flick took 4 "combined" to just hit a mere 1 million in a year PLUS 6 more months....I think people still like good old fashion cartooning with skilled artists over the chop-sockie cut-n-paste bubble eyed anime.

hmmm, 6 million in just one single year...many many years AFTER its release -or- just a mere 1 million in a year and a half on its first year of release....If you ask me it anime still has a LONG LONG time to prove it can come anywhere near good old American cartooning.

Come back in 20 or 30 years and tell me how the sales hold up, and does anyone even still remember them....can you go downtown and say one of the anime's characters name to the average Joe on the street and do they even know who your talking about....I think Shrek will live long and prosper just as Bambi and Thumper has endured the ages.....

just my take on the so-called "internet poll"
 

....oh, and did that poll that praises anime mention that The Indredibles only came out a couple years ago - and **Already hit 16 Million!??
**hmmm, (four 'combined' equal just 1 million in 1.5 years or  just one equal 16 million in 2 years) I think I'll invest in American CGI over anime any day

Quote - > Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

 

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

My son is so spoiled when it comes to eating out.   He loves Lobster, Crab and Steak.  When a friend brought over Filet Mignon for me to broil up, my son, eating his steak, claimed it couldn't be filet because it wasn't wrapped in bacon.  
I blame his grandparents for taking him so many places. :)    Brussel Sprouts he won't eat but broccoli and asparagus he will. 

There have been virtually all CG films made for adults: SKY CAPTAIN, SIN CITY, and 300.

Wouldn't you classify those moviies more as  computer special effects? They are done with real actors not mesh in front of blue / green screens and scaled sets. Not really in the same class as a Pixar CG film.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

 

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

 

My son is so spoiled when it comes to eating out.   He loves Lobster, Crab and Steak.  When a friend brought over Filet Mignon for me to broil up, my son, eating his steak, claimed it couldn't be filet because it wasn't wrapped in bacon.  
I blame his grandparents for taking him so many places. :)    Brussel Sprouts he won't eat but broccoli and asparagus he will. 

Ha ha ha.......your son has sophisticated tastes.  I only wanted hamburgers when I was a kid.  I didn't come to value steak more than hamburger until years later. 

Although I'll eat broccoli, asparagus, and brussel sprouts all three - no problem.

If it's food: I tend to like it.  I've never been able to understand children who put up a fuss at mealtime & who don't want to eat.  They used to have to lock up the cabinets to keep me out..........

You know, there is another reason to make good kids movies. Kids pick up parents reactions to things and have a tendency to follow suit. And if parents don't find the movie, too annoying they let their kids watch it over and over and then there is all the paraphernalia that goes with the kid's movies. How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing? And how many people would buy them if they did? So even if the adult's movie and the kid's movie match in the box office, the kid's movie will still make more money.

"How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing?"

Startrek, Starwars, Xmen, Most comic book superhero movies. Are they not geared more for the adult?  TV shows/movies Bevis and Butthead, Max Headroom,  Mr Bill, ATHF, which made big headline news not long ago. I'm in a hurry or I could name many more. All with the figures and promotional clothing and nik-naks.

I would argue that Star Trek, Star Wars, X-Men, and other comic book movies are aimed at both kids and adults. IF they were aimed purly at adults, they'd probably have more adult content in them (not necessarily rude stuff, just more complicated plots and mature content).  and while some of the more adult-themed stuff, such as Beavis and Butthead or Max Headroom, DO have figures and toys, I'm not sure you could argue that they sell in anything like the units that the kids' figures go for.

jonthecelt

Now, I would never say they would sell as many items. I was pointing out that they do make these things to sell to adults. But, then again, they do make sure that those othere movies do have enough adult content. Who do you think pays for it. LOL.

As for the Startrek and stuff. Not really kid shows, more teen and up shows. I remember watching the first episodes of Trek and as a kid, was more impressed with the sets and characters and the transporter than some of the story lines. It was when I was a little older that I payed more attention to those story lines and a certain someones over acting.LOL

I went to one of these scifi cons and was amazed at the % of adults young and old compared to the % of kids. I guess we all are kids deep down, if we let ourself be.

Wouldn't you classify those moviies more as computer special effects? They are done with real actors not mesh in front of blue / green screens and scaled sets. Not really in the same class as a Pixar CG film. If you watch all the CG work in something like 300, it's way more than just "computer special effects". They're doing things truly on the scale of Pixar, just utilizing them with real actors.

Quote - You know, there is another reason to make good kids movies. Kids pick up parents reactions to things and have a tendency to follow suit. And if parents don't find the movie, too annoying they let their kids watch it over and over and then there is all the paraphernalia that goes with the kid's movies. How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing? And how many people would buy them if they did? So even if the adult's movie and the kid's movie match in the box office, the kid's movie will still make more money.

I remember reading that they were selling rusty horseshoe nails at the screenings of 'The Passion.'
DPH

I was watching "Tripping the Rift" when it dawned on me.

What about " Tripping the Rift" complete cg. Complete adult. OK, so my box set finally got here. LOL.

"just utilizing them with real actors."

Right, still using real actors. When they start using all mesh then you can compare them to Pixar. Not counting voicing. That's how I see it anyways.