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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 18 10:25 pm)



Subject: A Name Too Far


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XENOPHONZ ( ) posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 7:16 PM

The movie that you are thinking of was called The Patriot.  I recall the controversy -- at least the controversy which obtained in the British press -- over that movie.  The film wasn't particularly controversial over here: at least not from the standpoint of the Brits being depicted as war criminals.  But the movie was controversial over here due to the fact that Mel Gibson's character's young sons -- both of them boys -- were shown shooting and killing in time of war........which isn't a politically correct thing to depict these days.  Even though boys 12 and under fighting in that war actually happened at the time.........but it's a big no-no in the current politically correct era.

I can't speak in fine detail about other aspects of the movie, due to the fact that I've only seen snatches of it on TV.  But I do recall that the English didn't like the movie back when it came out.  I also recall that English papers, columnists, etc. pointed out that Mel had a habit of starring in movies which tended to portray the English in a bad light -- such as Braveheart.  At the time, The Patriot was considered to be adding insult to injury.

Of course, since that time Mel has successfully managed to portray himself in a bad light --------

The Revolutionary War American general to whom you refer was Francis Marion (Marion was his last name, not his first).  He was given the appellation of the Swamp Fox by an English general who was complaining about the effectiveness of Marion's tactics against the British.

Whether or not the real Francis Marion was a hero depends upon which side of the fence you are sitting on, I suppose.  😉  But he is widely regarded as a hero in my home state.  Many places in those localities are proudly named after him.

http://www.americanrevwar.homestead.com/files/MARION.HTM

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Morgano ( ) posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 7:48 PM

Marion had precious little to do with ejecting the British from the Thirteen Colonies, but a lot more to do with plunging the United States into civil war several decades after his death.   Nathan Bedford Forrest  was a natural successor to Marion.   I like the United States;  I don't share the moronic anti-Americanism that proliferates in Europe these days and I think that the ACW was a tragic event.   Thanks to Marion and his like, it was probably also an inevitable one.


XENOPHONZ ( ) posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 9:57 PM · edited Mon, 18 June 2007 at 10:00 PM

Oh.....there's lots to be said about the American Civil War -- among other things: that England and other European powers at the time tended to favor the Confederacy -- to which they paid at least lip service.  And covertly supplied & traded with.

The history of the American Civil War is long and complicated.  Far more so than I have anything like the time to get into now.

There were fine men around in those days -- on both sides.  Men who had a sense of personal honor and duty which is utterly incomprehensible to the early 21st century mind.  There were also vile men on both sides.  People are human, and evil happens.

A sense of history can provide a perspective on things: like where we are going today.  I, for one, find our current direction to be a compass bearing that isn't good.  And the so-called 'answers' which some are offering to solve the deep & serious problems which surround us will be about as effective as Douglas'es (Lincoln's debate opponent) belief that the Union could continue on forever half-slave, and half-free.

Most Americans aren't particularly bothered by the rampant anti-Americanism which is so commonly found on display in today's Europe.  It's not a subject that most people over here meditate on as they go about their daily American lives.  In fact: it never even enters their minds.  About like statistics for the average annual rainfall levels in Lyons.

Interesting that the French (of all people) have just elected a pro-American leader.

Frankly, I'm not nearly so bothered by European anti-Americanism as I am by the rise of European anti-semitism...........which is an issue that's always been bubbling under the surface over there: and occasionally erupting.  I fear another such eruption.

.......a sense of history.

BTW -- I happen to be an admirer of English history, English traditions, and of the English nation.

Perhaps we'll talk about the Civil War sometime.  The English Civil War or The American Civil War -- or both.  Take your pick.

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Conniekat8 ( ) posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 11:01 PM

Quote - Nope, numbers won't help unless you get into 8 or 9 digits.  
Most of the "memorable" numbers like 1234 or 999 are
already trademarked!

 

I suppose 666 is also taken? ;)  How about Miss 69?

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Jumpstartme2 ( ) posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 11:52 PM

7 of 9 is also gone... :laugh:

~Jani

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Realmling ( ) posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 9:10 AM

Quote -
BTW - I understand that the name Rachel means "wild goat".  The name Deborah means "a bee".

 

Hey Xeno, where'd you find that one on Rachel.......because I've only ever found my name described as an ewe or a female lamb (don't ask me why the one name book had to spell it out completely)

I'd much rather be a wild goat.....I've just never seen that one before. =)

Course, my mother named me that after she read the Daphne duMaurier book...which is an interesting character to share a name with.

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


XENOPHONZ ( ) posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 9:51 AM · edited Tue, 19 June 2007 at 9:53 AM

Well.......I think that there's a tendency in modern-day 'baby-naming' books to tone down or to soften the original meaning of certain names.  For example, some sources will tell you that "Tristan" derives from "tryst" -- i.e. the character of a great lover.  Well......at it's root, that's simply not true.

Rachel is a Hebrew name.  And of course, the most famous Rachel of them all is found in the pages of the Old Testament.  Back then, names weren't just sounds like they are today -- names were actually supposed to connote something of the individual's character.  In fact, an individual's name would sometimes change depending upon characteristics in that person which didn't become apparent until later in life.  They'd get a new name -- a name to reflect who they were.

I don't have any sources here in front of me.....but I've seen Rachel defined as "wild goat" in original Hebrew interpretations.  It was also meant to convey the essence of the Old Testament Rachel's personality and character........free-ranging and not quite tameable.  But beautiful at the same time.  Or at least that's the way that wild goats were thought of in those days.

There's much about ancient ways of looking at things & ancient attitudes that the modern mind doesn't quite grasp without study.

One of our greatest flaws today is that we generally consider ourselves to be superior to our ancestors.  In many cases: it's actually the other way around.

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XENOPHONZ ( ) posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 12:26 PM

OK -- out of curiosity I've done some checking.

I should add that some names, of course, have more than one root meaning or association.  Rachel does mean ewe -- or mother sheep -- which also connotes an aspect of Rachel's character.  Her sister's name, Leah, means "cow".  A character placid, plodding and peaceable.

"Rachel" at its base root can also mean "to journey" or "to migrate".

More properly, Jael or Yael means "wild she-goat".  But it can also mean "antelope".  I don't have the time right now to check deeply into this -- but I am suspecting that "Rachel" and "Yael" both derive from the same root.  That might be where I picked that meaning up years ago.

Many words have multiple levels of meaning or association.  For example: the word "simple" can mean several different things, depending upon the context.  Too bad that things aren't always simple..........😉

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AnAardvark ( ) posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 1:16 PM

Quote - Perhaps we'll talk about the Civil War sometime.  The English Civil War or The American Civil War -- or both.  Take your pick.

 

One effect of the American Civil War on the US mindset is that we try to force all our concepts of civil wars into that framework, just like we try to think of revolutions in terms of our own. But the American Revolution was really a colonial rebellion, as opposed to, say, the class-based French Revolution, and the American Civil War was really a geographically-based secession (similar to the Vendee in France), not religiously or ethnically-based as so many are.


vincebagna ( ) posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 2:17 PM

A lot of english or american names for girls are given to boys in France, the contrary too :)

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dphoadley ( ) posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 11:06 PM

My son's name is Moshe (Moses), and my religious name is Yehuda David.  Now, there isn't a feminine form for Moshe, but both Yehuda and David do have an accepted feminine form: Yehudite (Judith) and Davida. 
Just my two shekels worth.
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


Morgano ( ) posted Thu, 21 June 2007 at 1:35 AM

*A lot of english or american names for girls are given to boys in France, the contrary too :)
*Tristan is traditionally Cornish, with domains in Brittany (Bretagne), which derives its name, apparently, from all the British who piled in there at the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, at about the same time as the Angles were arriving on the east coast of Britain and rather high-handedly re-naming the place "Angle-land", by which they meant the whole island.   Mediaeval French poems about Tristan, therefore, distinguish between "Bretagne", south of the Channel, and "Engleterre", north of it, a distinction which which would probably have annoyed the socks off a manly British hero like Tristan.   The English, as far as I know, only started to refer to the island as "Britain"  when James VI of Scotland became James I of England and Wales in 1603.  In the meantime, the Celtic-language inhabitants of Cornwall had long ago been conquered by the Saxons of southern England and the English had frequently made common cause with the Bretons, the cousins of the Cornish,  against their common enemy, the French.   On the other hand, in 1066, William the Bastard , Duke of Normandy, had been able to deploy a fair number of Breton troops at Hastings, where the Saxon rule of England, established by Alfred and his successors, was extinguished.   Recent research, certainly pretty controversial, speculates that the Saxons did not arrive along with the Angles and after the departure of the Romans (the traditional assumption), but had been in Britain from before the Roman conquest.   That could explain why the Scots Gaelic ("Sasunnach") and Welsh ("Saesneg") words for "English" both refer to the Saxons, rather than to the Angles who were geographically closer to Scotland and Wales, but may have arrived many centuries later.

Still, Tristan's a bloke, however you look at it.. 


vincebagna ( ) posted Thu, 21 June 2007 at 2:03 AM

I'm from Brittany (where i live too), and here, some typically breton names are given the same to boys and girls, such as Gaël, Gwenaël, Haël... Other names like Gwendal from Gwendoline are the male version of "frenchier" girl names. But in Brittany, a lot of people consider this part of France as a standalone country. The breton language is still alive (a lot of children go to breton schools), and a large part of the elderly talk in breton. All the signals in town are written both in French and in Breton, in the official buildings as well.
There are a lot of typically breton names, some for boys, some for girls, but people like to give them as they looks pretty to them, no regarding to the gender they are for.

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