Is it just me, or is the Free Stuff area out of control?

It seems to me with the growing popularity of CGShare, a lot of people are rendering pictures of props, pasting them to planes and uploading. That these items are frequently uploaded as "Poser ready props" seems misleading to me as the assumption is that they are actually meshes, not pictures. Further, where are they getting these props that they render? I'm starting to get a strong sense of deja vu when I see the "new" version.

I don't like to complain about free stuff, being respectful of the time, effort and generosity of the contributor... But, I'm starting to lose a sense that any time, effort or generosity is being expended here. And I don't much appreciate the attempt to get me to generate views for something that the contributor really didn't put much effort into creating.

Hmm. Calls for a new category, "billboards". Billboards are quite useful for midrange and background objects, I've used them on a regular basis when I still rendered in Poser.
But they're definitely not 3D objects.

svdl...I quite agree as I do Free Stuff every day but don't use Poser myself. I as well will put forward that suggestion. There have been a couple of new catagories that have been suggested that might help in this regard. That's about the only thing these objects are good for[mid distance clutter] but as Billboards a lot more folks would know what they are and be able to use them in other apps.

They should be going under 2D>original clipart or 2D>Tubes and nozzles.

If you spot one in Poser please let me know and I'll move it.

Cheers.

perhaps the sharecg users get a small amount of cash every time members here go to one of their pages, even if said persons don't click on any of the ads. hence there would a strong incentive to dump sharecg quickies in freestuff, or even the same quickie with minor changes. not that I'm complaining about the sharecg freestuff providers, mind you. however, it's a big help if it's truthfully labelled a 2d item, as it allows me to ignore it and look for actual 3d items.

I don't want to complain about freebies... but I can't help but feel that the Free Stuff section is being abused in order to generate Share CG hits. If I wanted to be really nasty about it, I'd call it spam.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing an upload cap on freebies. It would not hurt those that are creating "legitimate" freebies, and it might get the others to at least bundle some of their similar items into zip files.

Read up on how to make money at the site. I have also seen the same thing posted again. So are reposting the samething again to bump there download to the top of the freestuff page so it is seen more and also clicked on more.

How do I earn the most money with my ShareCG uploads?

Here are some tips that seem to help our most succesful uploaders:

• Link to your uploads from other websites, blogs, forums, your website, or wherever.
• Make them great. The highest rated uploads get the most views.
• Upload stuff that lots of people want.
• Upload lots of stuff.
• Write clear descriptions, incorporating all keywords associated with your upload that someone might search for.
• Categorize correctly.
• Don't post something that is inappropriate, infringes copyright, or is spam. This could lead to a suspension of your account.

More at http://www.sharecg.com/learn_more.php?PSID=2900e0e633c806dd27db170e1a460570

Quote - So are reposting the samething again to bump there download to the top of the freestuff page so it is seen more and also clicked on more.

If you are seeing reposts of the identical item for the identical programs posted here at Rendo freestuff, let me know via IM/Sitemail and I'll take care of that.

I do know that some freestuff providers post identical items, but for different programs..like one for Poser, and one for Bryce in their respective formats. If you are seeing something different, let me know ;)

Yes it maybe that I see some of the same things and it is the same but one is for bryce and then your see the same thing again and it is for Vue, Poser, Daz etc.

Karen--

The item I suspect is a recent plant posting, it in the Poser -> Poser Ready Props -> Backgrounds and Environments category. I'm sorry, but since I suspect a shareCG submission, I'm just not willing to generate a view just to investigate.

It was in fact this package that generated my question in the Copyright forum and I gotta say, I'm still reeling from that answer.

Quote - I don't want to complain about freebies... but I can't help but feel that the Free Stuff section is being abused in order to generate Share CG hits. If I wanted to be really nasty about it, I'd call it spam.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing an upload cap on freebies. It would not hurt those that are creating "legitimate" freebies, and it might get the others to at least bundle some of their similar items into zip files.

I have to agree, reluctantly, with Tammarion's suggestion of a cap. It is spam. And it seems as if it would be detrimental to the marketplace.

Where does it stop? If I see a tree prop, for instance, in the marketplace that would be perfect in the background of an image I'm working on, instead of buying the prop, can I go to the free stuff forum and request someone render it for me in a format that preserves the alpha channel? What if I see a new hairstyle-- could you render that for me with no figure and a plane down the middle so I just get a frontal shot?  Thanks, I'll composite it into my image...

I can't say that everything posted by these individuals are billboards, not meshes, but having been burned once, I'm just not willing to "reward" them with a hit to investigate. I wil send you the one I know is not a mesh.

I'd submit the following.

1: Not a single one of the freestuff providers had to upload anything for some to fill their greedy little runtimes with in the first place.

2: No one is forcing anyone else to come to Renderosity in the first place, let along, go into the freestuff area. So if someone does'nt like whats in it, don't go there.

3: It's about as egotistical and arrogant as one can get, to question the generosity , and effort of anyone that is giving something away to everyone for free.  Sort of like the person who's starving who goes to the soup kitchen  to keep from starving to death, and then gripes because the soup kitchen didn't feed them cordon bleu.

Quote -
Yeah, we can't have any freestuff items daring to compete with similiar items found in the storefront can we. After all God forbid someone that is GENEROUS enough to be giving their work away for free, make a little pocket change for their efforts.

That is not what this is about.

I would love for actual creators to be able to upload as many items as they wish. That they earn a little money from it is GREAT! If I ever create anything again, I'll probably use ShareCG.

But if your version of "creation" is load someone else's work, click render. I've got an issue with that.

So, consider this, you've spent weeks creating a mesh. You upload it to free stuff -- here, or somewhere else. You even put it on ShareCG. No problem.

Someone else comes along, pops your mesh into Poser, Vue, Bryce (whatever), renders, then uploads their billboard to ShareCG. You still have no problem with this?

No because my liscence gives the end user certain rights, one of wich is the right to do whatever they want with their renders.

Wich is pretty standard in poserdom.

Saying that is wrong, is like saying it's wrong if someone makes a poster of a N.V.I.T.W.S. and then turns around and sells that poster.

With that I've said my piece on this subject for now. (Got to go for now).

Quote - No because my liscence gives the end user certain rights, one of wich is the right to do whatever they want with their renders.

Wich is pretty standard in poserdom.

Saying that is wrong, is like saying it's wrong if someone makes a poster of a N.V.I.T.W.S. and then turns around and sells that poster.

With that I've said my piece on this subject for now. (Got to go for now).

Sorry you had to run...

But I disagree. No one upload NVITWS, no one sells them-- because by their very nature they are a composition.

Some effort at creation took place. It is now their work, good, bad or indifferent.

To just render a prop as a billboard, takes no creation. To upload it to a freestuff area is to provide it as a resource for other people using 3D applications. A resource that is now in direct competition with the original prop-- be it commercial or free.

As for licensing... I've seen any number of them that forbid you to use their item in a manner that lets someon extract your product from the resulting render. It used to be just textures, but apparently needs to include meshes as well.

Ok I'm the debates over. I'm back.

Kalon I obviously don't understand what your position is then. It seems to me that you are saying that somehow people are extracting the original mesh from a render and then redistributing that mesh?

Or are you saying that people are taking a mesh, making a render and then redistributing the render.

If its the latter, and is wrong as you are saying, then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem. 

Because everytime one of us looks at the gallery, we are downloading every render we look at onto our machine. And thus technically that render is being redistributed to us.

For free by the way.

I believe the point is, there has recently been a rash of uploads of the same freebie(s) with only slight variations between the uploads. If it were something being sold in the Marketplace, the merchant would have bundled it into a single package (ie. a texture package for a clothing item). When I'm browsing the Marketplace, I see one product comprising all the variations the merchant is offering. I don't have to view (and potentially purchase) a dozen separate product entries that are essentially the same thing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm grateful for the content freebie-makers provide. It's the method of delivery I take issue with. When I go into the Free Stuff section, I'd rather not see an entire screen-full of variations of one provider's product. They are drowning out the other providers - and that isn't right either.

I just dont see how it could be drowning out another providers content...

If you have one provider who has a whole page of say.. different models, that takes up the whole page.. and then you have another provider who has a whole page of say..textures of various colors..that also will take up the whole page....

By all rights, the model provider should have to bundle all his/her models together just as the texture provider would...to keep from taking over the whole page..

We have a huge amount of freestuff going up everyday...no matter who has items on the front page, nor how many,  it will move off by the following day. ;)

I myself have bundled a few, but the majority I do not...I usually make a texture or whatever, upload it, and then get on with my day..I dont have the time to sit all day and create a whole set...if I did, and they all went together for all intents and purposes, I might consider bundling them..but I have no issue with those who dont...

As long as providers are not uploading the exact same item to bump it to the top, I have no problems

Maybe the site can keep a log of who and what gets uploaded and how many are uploaded.
Then that could help out in finding if they are doing the same thing again. Some many take away there uploads and then just upload them again to push them to the top so more see them and click on them. I have seen this a couple times but seems like now after the CGShare site stared being used your seeing this happening more. 
I can see upload taken away and put back up if it is to change the download site but can't you just edit your upload to change the download link.

Maybe the site can keep a log of who and what gets uploaded and how many are uploaded.
Then that could help out in finding if they are doing the same thing again. Some many take away there uploads and then just upload them again to push them to the top so more see them and click on them. I have seen this a couple times but seems like now after the CGShare site stared being used your seeing this happening more. 
I can see upload taken away and put back up if it is to change the download site but can't you just edit your upload to change the download link.

We had a problem with freestuff providers abusing the system this way a couple of years ago but to my knowledge it hasn't happened since.

I personally approve about 95% of the Poser uploads and I have a rather extraordinary memory, so I generally spot stuff like this very quickly.

Also, we do limit releases per day by the same provider (5 max per day.)

I haven't noticed anyone doing this Hewee...Is there anything specific you have seen? Shoot me an IM if you have and I'll check it out.

As for keeping logs...if you are talking about manually checking those logs.....yuck :tt2:

Maybe somewhere down the line we might be able to impliment something like that automatically, but it would, Im sure..be on the low end of the 'to do' list if at all..

Yes, you can edit the link..but I would hope providers wouldn't do something like that :(

Quote - Ok I'm the debates over. I'm back.

Kalon I obviously don't understand what your position is then. It seems to me that you are saying that somehow people are extracting the original mesh from a render and then redistributing that mesh?

Or are you saying that people are taking a mesh, making a render and then redistributing the render.

If its the latter, and is wrong as you are saying, then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem. 

Because everytime one of us looks at the gallery, we are downloading every render we look at onto our machine. And thus technically that render is being redistributed to us.

For free by the way.

Sorry about the delayed response, storms knocked out my electricity....

Yes, I am saying the latter. And all the examples you keep pitching back to me have one major, and I do mean major difference-- some creative work has been done to them. That is what supposed to happen. It becomes part of a composition of the artist's work. But to take an item, render it with neutral lighting in issolation to provide an artists resource of something you did not create is wrong. And it may suit the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

And before you start comparing apples and oranges again, take a look at the EULA of X-frog products. They specialize in creating billboards of meshes that they own and created. Their EULA is rather strict, because they recognize that this is a very dangerous copyright area.

And it is a competitive product. Using the actual mesh will cast the correct shadows, allow better interaction with other components in your image and not limit the angle in which the item can be shown. However, on the other hand, using a billboard is light on system resources and will allow you to use twenty trees, versus one actual mesh tree.

If you are arguing that the tools are available to extract an item from any composition and use it in your work ... you're right. But that doesn't make doing so right. And if you are using that as justification, then when I shop in the marketplace, I should just download the promotional image, fire up photoshop and extract the item that caught my attention. All the money I could have saved if I had only known... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that billboards are a bad thing. If you photograph a plant, create a mask and slap it on a plane, I have no problem with you uploading 40 billboards a day. If you create a mesh, render it in isolation and upload 40 billboards a day, no problem. But if you are taking someone elses mesh, rendering it in isolation and uploading as an artist resource you created that's highly problematic.

Quote - I haven't noticed anyone doing this Hewee...Is there anything specific you have seen? Shoot me an IM if you have and I'll check it out.

As for keeping logs...if you are talking about manually checking those logs.....yuck :tt2:

Maybe somewhere down the line we might be able to impliment something like that automatically, but it would, Im sure..be on the low end of the 'to do' list if at all..

Yes, you can edit the link..but I would hope providers wouldn't do something like that :(

Boy that would be hard because your have to go back tru the freestuff and look and you know how much time that would take. Plus if uploads were taken down from this site and later uploaded to bump them to the top your still only see the one copy posted here.

Oh I see what you are getting at Kalon. 

They aren't taking the actual .obj mesh like you find in the geometries folders.... and then rendering it and pasting it onto something else.

They're just cutting the final rendered mesh out of something then pasting it onto something else.

Like taking the alien in my gallery, and then cutting it out from the background and pasting it onto something else. Then redistributing it. 

Right?

I believe he's talking about people making "tubes" (backgroundless images)  out of ready made props.  Basically opening Poser or Daz}|Studio, loading up a prop of a tree or a rock or a chair etc, and then redering it and saving it as a .png with a transparent alpha channel so that the image can be post worked into any image.

He's saying that allowing people to upload such items here is taking away sales from merchants selling those particular items. Basically why would someone buy the mesh when they can get their hands on a rendered image and then just work it into their image in post work.  Essentially why spend $5.00 on a lounge chair when you can get a picture of the same one that you can use in your post work, for free.

It's a good point that the poster is making, there's shed loads of them been added lately from the same person who incidentally doesn't have any info about themselves on their homepage here!!
That said, billboards are only any real use in medium to far distance, I use them a lot in Vue but for near camera stuff you need the full model!

It does seem to be just a few people who are doing almost a page of uploads on the one day which means that other people are rapidly (or more rapidly than usual) getting lost way back in the pages. Maybe you should have a daily limit per person?

Bea, we do, as stated in my last post.

From what I'm seeing in the last week or 2, some peeps are just doing very quick renders, offering them as backgrounds because they get some kind of monetory award from somewhere, that's my understanding anyway!
It's clearly undervaluing the meaning of the free stuff section IMO!

Quote - Bea, we do, as stated in my last post.

 
then how come one person has 27 uploads dated the 30th of June 13 on the 29th and more going back every day?

You'd have to address your question to the 2D mod - I only can speak for Poser.

So what you are saying is that you mods don't talk to each other and provide guidelines to cover all your areas? It seems a little bit strange to me. After all I would assume that you would all have the same nudity policies? So why not the same upload policies? Particularly as all the freeloads show in the same area. I don't think most people go into only look at one area unless they are doing a search for something in particular.

Mods cover their own areas. It's not appropriate for me to comment on 2D stuff.

but surely it is appropriate for you to contact them and at least point them in this direction? I say this because there are more than me asking the same question ")

I stopped getting ebots on this thread...

Quote - Oh I see what you are getting at Kalon. 

They aren't taking the actual .obj mesh like you find in the geometries folders.... and then rendering it and pasting it onto something else.

They're just cutting the final rendered mesh out of something then pasting it onto something else.

Like taking the alien in my gallery, and then cutting it out from the background and pasting it onto something else. Then redistributing it. 

Right?

@ Lord_Syphex

Frankly, I really don't know how they're doing it. Some of the items do look like they were cut from photographs or completed images, some may be actual renders (of a mesh they had in their possession).  The speed and sheer volume of their offerings might indicate the former.

@ Acadia

Quote - I believe he's talking about people making "tubes" (backgroundless images)  out of ready made props.  Basically opening Poser or Daz}|Studio, loading up a prop of a tree or a rock or a chair etc, and then redering it and saving it as a .png with a transparent alpha channel so that the image can be post worked into any image.

He's saying that allowing people to upload such items here is taking away sales from merchants selling those particular items. Basically why would someone buy the mesh when they can get their hands on a rendered image and then just work it into their image in post work.  Essentially why spend $5.00 on a lounge chair when you can get a picture of the same one that you can use in your post work, for free.

Yes, but they've gone one better, they place the .png on a plane prop, then categorize it as a poser ready prop. The unsuspecting user could believe they're downloading a mesh of the tree, rock whatever, when really all they're downloading is a png pasted to a square.-- Yeah, these billboards are only really good for distance shots.

If I need a tree to put in the background of my render and I'm debating buying Joe Bob's Fantastic Oak Tree -- price $5.00 and then I happen to visit free stuff and see Joe Bob's Fantasic Oak Tree -- price free.... ?

Oh, and I'm a she

*The unsuspecting user could believe they're downloading a mesh of the tree,
*That is nor strictly true. Anyone looking for a mesh objrct will look properly in that sub catagory[Poser>Mesh Objects] which is what I do when searching for a mesh in Poser that I can't find elsewhere. As a Free Stuff Mod I often in fact have re labelled items listed as Mesh Objects, to Poser Props when I look into the dl and see no mesh and a pz3 file and a .png. I agree they should properly be called Billboards but we don't have a catagory within Poser for that at the present. I'm not sure what the problem is really as it's simply a free dl, and a disappointment but really no loss as it is a free item. You don't want it, delete it from your system as I do.

The problem isn't that it's free stuff, or even incorrectly-labelled free stuff. It's that it is being generated to create Share CG hits, and nothing more. The intent rather than the content. And the effect the trend is having on the legitimate freebie content creators. Check the threads in the forums at some of the other sites. It sounds as though some content creators are already questioning whether they should bother uploading here.

I'd say the game has changed, and Rendo needs to revisit their rules.

And I think you should have the same rules for all your free sections. If the Poser section only allows a maximum of 5 uploads a day then all the others should too.

Quote - The problem isn't that it's free stuff, or even incorrectly-labelled free stuff. It's that it is being generated to create Share CG hits, and nothing more. The intent rather than the content. And the effect the trend is having on the legitimate freebie content creators. Check the threads in the forums at some of the other sites. It sounds as though some content creators are already questioning whether they should bother uploading here.

I'd say the game has changed, and Rendo needs to revisit their rules.

I see the same thing. They are after Share CG hits. Go to there site and do a search. Or look under plugins. I seen it filled with just background images like your see here now in the freestuff. So you tell me what type of plug-in a background image is? You sure don't see background images listed other places under plug-ins.

It is Share CG hits they are after. It it like I can just upload all images I make to there site and why not make one a day so I can upload it the Share and then here so I get hits every day. 

I know it is still a free thing so is in the freestuff.

But I know sites don't like spammers and I don't think this site lets spammers post but when your just uploading so you can get Share CG hits and that is so you can make money is that not like spamming.

Quote - And I think you should have the same rules for all your free sections. If the Poser section only allows a maximum of 5 uploads a day then all the others should too.

 
Personally I think the limit should be an absolute cap for the user, regardless of which category they post in. And ideally on a 24-hour timer rather than a daily limit. Otherwise you'll have someone posting their cap at 11:59 for today, then waiting a minute or two to upload their cap for the next day.

I agree :) :)

"...then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem. "

And that very problem is that this and almost (?) every other Poser site out there has become a parody of itself.
These arguments, complaints and discussions get more and more bizarre with every passing month.

I hate to point this out but there has been an individual who has been posting to the Poser free stuff more than five a day ... so saying you have a limit is BULL!

**
There seriously needs to be a cap on this.

Karen....

could you please ask the mod of the 2D free stuff to stop in here and let us know if this "no cap" is going to continue? 21 new uploads by the same person today alone.**

We're discussing this now gang..hold tight ;)

I hate to point this out but there has been an individual who has been posting to the Poser free stuff more than five a day ... so saying you have a limit is BULL!

D.A.D.:

Just because some days I lose count doesn't mean there isn't a limit ;o)
But we'll request some kind of enhancement so that the system will prevent this happening.

I have been noticing some kind of change in the free area, but I've not been able to put my finger on it until this thread.  There does seem to be a huge increase in the number of "tube" type images and "poser ready props/backgrounds" being uploaded. It's become difficult to wade through if you are looking for real props for poser, bryce, vue or just genearl .obj type files.

Before someone tells me to view according to program IE: Poser, I'll say now that I  don't view free stuff according to "program" because many items can be used across programs if converted and filtering by program will cause me to miss out on a number of otherwise very good and useful freebies.

Thanks Jumpy and Karen. Will go back to being patient.

We host our free stuff over on ShareCG after moving our stuff from another server, because of  people telling us that they were having trouble downloading what we had available.

With that said, we do have to agree with the discussions going on here in this thread. We find it difficult at times to look for legitimate products when having to wade through postings of "plants".  However I don't think setting a freestuff cap is really the answer, but the suggestion of maybe adding a "billboard" catagory in place that is meant for non-rendered products is an interesting idea.

But again, having people place them into the 2D catagory, instead of Poser Ready Props would also suffice. Just our thoughts.

**liquidanime

But this still doesn't address the problem of having all the New Free Stuff page being similar items by the same uploader the way a 5 images per 24 period[24 hrs from when you uploaded] would. At very most you would have, depending on how many thumbnails you set in you prefs, 5 items in a  row or on a page by the same person and there would be some variety.**

I truly admire people who take the time and effort to produce free stuff for us all. But as has been said just lately its getting too much of the same stuff from the same people so other people aren't getting the chance to showcase their freestuff as much as they should be able to. I know things move off the front page but normally it doesn't happen as quickly as it is happening now.

Wait a minute the complaint supposedly was that someone was making tubes.

Oh I see, what they were doing is legal.

So now the complaint is, there's too much freestuff, in the freestuff area.

Question, how many of ya's making this complaint are merchants here?
:lol: