Hi,I just found out how poor this system is.! I just checked the sea/undersea genre...
 Max made an excellent image..     http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1482684  
 ...with 32 ratings,yet this image,that should be in the top 100 ratings has been excluded because someone rated it less than 5.
 Seems to me that we are all loosing out when work of this callibre does not get to what I believe is a showcase for the best of Bryce for the the whole of Renderosity!
  Thanks for the image Max!
Cheers! Jed.

I never pay attention to ratings. I usually turn them off (or at least as soon as I see that I forgot to!).

That's a fantastic image.

Around here you have to flash tit and give the image some crap title like "Waiting  for her dream lover" to make top 100. Vacant looks and bad textures help as well. And don't forget to list the 30 people that actually made every item in the image that you are claiming as YOUR artwork. 

If anyone ever figures out how some renders get dozens of comments and perfect ratings, while excellent work like this doesn't, let me know, ok? All right everyone.. march to the link, comment, and rate! One of the all-time best Bryce images, IMHO.

Attached Link: Poser people and their people rant - a Draculaz Editorial

And I went and commented and rated the image Scanmead, I don't think it will do any good at this point in time since someone possibly viewing the image as a prop instead of art gave it a bad rating because it didn't have giant breasts and nipples got to it already.  But I gave it a good rating anyway.  It deserves it.

Quote - Around here you have to flash tit and give the image some crap title like "Waiting  for her dream lover" to make top 100. Vacant looks and bad textures help as well. And don't forget to list the 30 people that actually made every item in the image that you are claiming as YOUR artwork. 

My apologies to Jedswindells and Max (and any others chasing a rating score)  I quit allowing ratings on my images about a year ago and quit rating images I viewed at the same time. 

I'm not sure but this may cause the overall rating of  someone's image to slip.  Hopefully a "no rating" would not effect the average.

Why do I not rate stuff anymore?  Well anyone who has been around here long enough will know that "art" is often subjective.  I will comment If I am inclined but I don't feel my opinions are educated enough to "rate/judge" someone else's work. 

I commented on that particular image and I also think it is impeccable and amazing... but I didn't rate it.  I left that box unchecked.

I'm glad I read this thread - I may have never discovered Max's work otherwise. Awesome images. Yes it's a shame that work of this standard doesn't get as much recognition as the many naked female images do:(  Good thread jed!

I just took a look a the top 100. Most are Poser and most contain nudity. Hey, sex sells, especially to the 18 to 34 year old crowd. (No offense to the younger Bryce artists, you're more sopisticated and talented than those Barbie pushers)

If you post ratings and comments to dozens of artists it's a given that they'll post comments and ratings back. Pretty much a no brainer. I noticed one artist (I won't mention his name) who was in the top 100 and has been caught red handed stealing other peoples work and claiming it as his own. This guy comments constantly. He needs approval and status even if it means ripping off the work of others.

Me, I make art for me, not for anyone else. If other people enjoy it and take the time to comment, thank you. And yes I enjoy it when someone says they like my work. Hey, who doesn't :)

I enjoy Bryce art because I see imagination, style, excellence and technical expertise that is mostly lacking in the Poser galleries. Yes, I know there are some really good Poser artists but they seem to be in the minority.  I guess I've see too many derivative, vacant eyed 'Naked Vicky In The Temple With A Sword' T&A poses.

Maybe the Top 100 should be renamed "The Top Poseur's" instead.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a rant about Poser, but after seeing the Top 100 I just had to vent.

Everything today is about ratings; TV shows, politics, cars and soap. Everbody wants to be Number One. Today we seem to want to rate everything.

And if you think about it, who cares if you're top rated at Rendo? If you're more concerned about your rating than your work than you should be in advertising or on TV 'cause you sure as hell aren't creating anything of lasting value.Your art has just been reduced to a transitory numerical value.

As far as I'm concerned, screw the ratings, screw the Top 100, just create art you enjoy. That's what I'm going to do.

End of other rant.

Jacques

constantly.

i remember this image, i rated it some time ago, and it still looks awesome.

The old "hot 20" system may have been highly flawed, but at least it meant that the pure poserholics could pat each other on the back in their own section, whereas nowadays there is only the one section to show the highest rated images.

I saw Max's image a while back. Knocked my socks off. :)
Just a stunning piece of work,

gad..I just look at everything..;) I've gotten ratings in the past, recently those that show up are 5 and 4.5, and honestly folks, I'm not that good..;) But if it makes them feel good..;)

Good art doesn't need a ratings system. You're the toughest critic you'll ever face, so if it's good enough for you....

just went back and rechecked, and yes, I saw it, and yes, I liked it.

I'm with deadwarrior and pakled on this topic.  My art is to satisfy a personal need to create and express myself, if some other people get some pleasure from what I do whether it be on the computer or on canvas then thats a bonus for me.

Cheers
GG

Freaky; I have, quite independently of this thread, just scanned through the 100 top-rated images here.  I may be slightly out, but of 100 images, only two weren't made with Poser, both of them being photos by the very excellent Valerie Ducom.  Of the remaining 98, I think one or two were some kind of troll thingy, the other 96 were of females in various stages of undress with a range of weapons,and a distinct immunity to gravity and shadows.  Now, being a Poser user with a penchant for naked females myself, I'm not pointing any fingers, but surely there's room for something else?

Reminded me of an article in 3D World magazine a while back, called something like "CG - What's with all the chicks?".  Then I read this thread, seems I'm not the only one who  thinks there's something rotten in the state!

If I were to include ratings in a gallery system, I think I would do it based on each category of software. Like.. top 100 Bryce images, top 100 Poser images, etc. But not group them into one lump rating system. Not all software is made equally, like the fractals. There are some excellent fractal artists out there, but I would not expect them to rate highly in a push-Poser site. So if I would have a rating system, it would be divided based on software. Then a page could show the top 1 of each software the site supports. If anyone is interested in more detail, they should be able to drill down and see the top 10 or 20 or 100 or 1000 of a specific software.

Either that, or I wouldn't support ratings at all.

Thanks for your replies!...but my main worry is that this system can relegate popular and competent work to the bottom of the pile because the rating is not the perfect 5.0000.
 I am talking of the ratings for individual Bryce genre which used to be a good quick referrence to some of the best work!
 An image may be 'rated' by 30+ members and if just one rates below 5,this work will be superceded by any pic with a 5.0000 score rated by 1 or 2 folk.
  I use the top 100 ratings and top100 comments to(hopefully!)access some of the best Bryce work posted on this site....'cause I'm lazy.So I assume many other members do the same!
 Sorry to bore you all with this but I think a simple 'yes or no'rating system works best!
 Regards Jed.

Surely when they fixed the problem with the hot 20, they thought it out carefully. It would only make sense that if an image were rated 10 times that it should rank higher than an image that only received 2 ratings. Hasn't anyone had a statistics course, don't they know about weighting the statistics? Sheesh.
Well when the Hot 20 went away I never bothered to look at its replacement and I'm glad I didn't.

In a nut shell, best rated is niether the best art nor the best technically.  I agree the top 100 is just a self-serving list of those most successful at coraling the votes. When the very first top 100 was posted at r'osity about a year ago the same discussions occured.  Nothing has changed and probably never will because this site has it's roots in Poser.

Any recognition of  non-Poser art would probably have to be initiated here in the forums. It would take an active mod to set things running though.  Where is AS?

I rarely rate images, even if I comment. But when an image of that quality appears, there should be some way of drawing attention to it. There are so many images uploaded every day, it's hard to slog through them all, and things get lost in the sheer volume. CGTalk has a good, but somewhat biased way of doing it: a Choice Gallery. Work is submitted, and acceptance is based on the admins decision. The Poser Forum here has Staff Picks for each month spotlighting excellent renders. Other than splitting the "most viewed" and "highest rated" into 'Poser' and 'everything else', I'm stumped.

Wait a second.  We can rate images?! 

I very quickly discovered that ratings are pointless, so I just ignore them.   It seems that a rating of anything other than 5 stars is a kick in the teeth for the artist.  

Just a suggestion, but rather than rate work by number, rate them by the number of comments and views. If someone takes the time to look at my work and write a comment, it means more to me than a quick click of the ratings button. It means they liked what I created (or maybe not) ;D

Anyway, the more a work is seen seems to be a better indicator of its popularity than a number rating. It means your work stood out among many others, and someone liked it enough to click on the thumbnail and explore your work further.

Maybe they'll look at your gallery or add you as a favorite. But at least your work has caught their attention.

To me at least, that seems to be the best indicator of popularity: how many people see my work, not the number rating.

Like I said, it's just a suggestion.

Best,

Jacques

Who wants to be popular?   I think just post pictures as a way of showing people what you're up to.
Don't art charts work more like you suggested?   I'm not too sure, since I haven't looked since they were first introduced.

I DO!.....I DO!....I WANT TO BE VERY POPULAR! I know that all my V3s and V4s have light coming out of their nostrols, (somehow I don't think this is normal....but, hey....if you just ignore it....it still deserves a 5 rating and surely a fav too) and their zombie stares are sure evidence that I have no knowledge of how to change their expressions. Ok, Ok....I know too that the pose is as wooden as a board, and unnatural as hell....but just consider this....if you vote for me....why then I'll just hop right over to your gallery and vote for you too. That way we both can be in the top 100 every week. And to hell with talent and creativity and expertise....who needs any of that when you have lots and lots of friends who will vote for every piece of pathetic garbage that I post in my gallery. Just vote for me....so that I can be King of Crap!

LOL vangogh! Good for you! You make an excellent point.

This thread has been about ratings. How to rate, what to rate, ways to rate, etc. Maybe the solution is simply to ignore the ratings entirely. Maybe the point is that there is no point.

A good image is a a good image. It needs no rating. Ratings should not be validations for an artist.

Damn, if you like it, the hell with everybody else!

Make your art for you. Be selfish about your art. It's yours, your work. Please yourself first. Don't cater to the Madding crowd.

So let's just let the ratings go the way of the wind. Comment if you like the work, pass if you don't.

Keep in mind a good image will attract the more discerning adult viewers. The T&A kids would never glance at at your work. (unless of course you you've got T&A in your metaballs). :D

Maybe the idea of ratings is a just a pointless exercise, a way to gauge our popularity, an ego boost. Does anyone here really need to be 'best rated'? Is it that important to you? Does it make you a better artist?

Care about your art. Do the best you can. Learn from others. Appreciate and comment on the work of others. Try new things. Fail gracefully. Remember: "Life's tough; get a helmet."

And most of all, don't think about ratings: you are not a pack of sausage. Let the ratings go.

You know there's an old Zen saying: "The way to do is to be".

I'll try to create the same way.

End of deep Zen ;D

jesus.. that's cgtalk material..

Damnit! Busted. :D 

Hrm... No Ratings Zone

Sure, why not? Just go for the comments and see what happens. Can't hurt.

I must be like the Velvet Underground..;) no one really bought their albums, but everyone who did started a band..;)  getting a lot more comments, views tend up and down depending on how much woman I put in..;)

"I'm geared toward the average, rather than the Exceptional" - Jethro Tull, Thick as a Brick..;)*

Your're showing your age Pakled, especially the Jon Anderson/Tull reference :)

"And I'm still thick as a brick." Cue the flute solo Jon.

Me too. Well at least I get the point. (still have the album too!)

Is that Jon Anderson from YES / Vangelis fame?

Unless your work is pro quality, how could you expect a rating of 5...or do people just give a 5 to anyone who is better than them, even if it's not that good? I rate on skill alone, that way, even if its a subject I don't like thier actual talent is still obvious and rate-able.

Reply to D_A_M: Yep, same guy. Love his work. Still have all the original YES albums; the ones with the Roger Dean covers.

PS: D_A_M, like Pakled, you're showing you age! :D
Next you'll be talking about Emerson, Lake and Palmer!

Maybe the Bryce Forum motto should be: "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. Come inside, Come inside".

The rest of you punk kids get off my damn lawn! (Fark reference) :)

Sorry TwistedBolt went OT there for a moment. Be back tomorrow.

It's 11PM-1300 here in LA, time to hit the rack.

Later

Actually wasn't that Ian Anderson in Tull?

i rate based on the cookies they give me...

Drac want a cookie?....I thought it was babies! I rate based on the intellectual stimulation I get....it's why I hardly ever give anything over a 1!

i only ask for babies when the work's orgasmic :D

I carfully balance between marketability, sales value, intellectual stimulation, emotional stimulation, spiritual stimulation, brand identity, artist personality, brand communication, product identity, color usage, composition, originality, artistic value, beauty, complexity, flaw-ratio, time, effort, technical skill, metaphorical content, coffee, matrix-inspired content, breastsize, nudity, realism, eroticism, software and hardware used, manhours, artist experience, brand experience, product experience, watermarks, watermark quality, post-work amount, post-work quality, post-work app used, mixed-media components, influence from other artworks, the quality of conceptualizing an idea, opinion or emotion into a festival of visual elements, the amount of sleep i had, the amount of alcohol i have in my blood, the mood i am in and the amount of cookie crums draculaz left behind.

Rayraz....I think you have restricted yourself way too much....how can you make a balanced decision on such a narrow list of criteria....you have just got to learn to take more things into concideration!

Incarnadine: Yeah you're right, it was Ian Anderson. D'oh!

Het Drac, here in LA we eat babies too. 'Course they're 18 or over.

Well that lowered the level of this conversation.

I expect a blistering attack from the ladies of this Forum for that remark.

I am girding my loins. ;)

Boy, have we gone off topic with thisThread!

@Deadwarrior: We are discussing POSER and RATINGS. The tone of the thread could NOT be lowered any further. 

Poser quality with some spectacular exceptions is usually so low it has to look up to watch snakes pass. And Ratings are just a way of see how many people have been fooled into thinking this pile of rubbish is better than that pile of rubbish. 

Returning to our regular scheduled program, on the rare occasions I rate a picture it is always to give a 5. These images are the ones that stop me in my tracks, and say wow.  They may not be original ideas, or even perfect technically, but something about them just............

You know what I mean.

Sorry if I offended you Cyba_Storm. Please accept my apologies. I knew I'd catch hell with that remark. A brief moment of recto-crainial inversion.

You're absolutly right, I strayed off topic. Point is taken and I'll keep to the program.

You're right; some Poser work is spectacular, but you sure have to do a bit of searching to find it. And I mean a lot of searching.

I was browsing 3DCommune and I noticed more inovative art there than here at Rendo. And I mean in all galleries, not just Bryce. I get a bigger 'Wow Factor' there than I do here. Has anyone else noticed the same thing, or is it just my personal perception?

@deadwarrior: I wasn't having a shot and no offence taken.  I'm all for people eating people or just licking the chocolate syrup off. My point was once you start talking about POSER the thread can't fall much further. 

I hate Poser with a passion. Not the program as such, but its dumbing down of a complete generation of artists. These people don't even realise the PROPS they are using have taken artists, days or even weeks of modelling time to create, texture and rig. They're just props. 

My favorites is probably half Poser images. There are people out there that can make the program sing. Brilliant artists creating work as good as anything on the net or in the real world. 
BUT, they are the exception. Most will never do more than load props, poses, textures, outfits and sets, and sit back and bask in their equally as talentless friends praise. 

OKAY, now I'm off topic. Put it down to much blood in  my Booze stream.

Thanks Cyba_Storm, you summed my feeling about Poser art in general. And no, you're not off topic.

You're right about the use of props and models. It's rare, if ever, that the Poser 'artists' give credit to the true skilled artists and model makers that populate their redundant, derivative Barbie world.

I don't have the skill/expertise to make decent models. I use the talents of other, more skilled artisans much the same way a film director uses the prop department to provide scenery for his or her film.

But dammit, I always try to give credit to the other artist that contributed to the overall work. Even down to the texture mats.

If I don't know, or can't find their name(s), I comment and ask that the identify themselves so that they get the credit they deserve.

I'm not a one man show when it comes to most 3D art.

I know that if my work is rated (if at all), it's either the result of a  collaborative effort with artist credit given, or a solo effort on my part. (all my Terragen/Fractal/Povray/Moray work is mine)

Maybe that's the real trouble with the rating structure; most images posted are not the result of one individual artist, but the result of of a number of different talents and skills combined into a cohesive whole. It's a ratings flaw that needs to addressed.

Sad thing is that many artist don't want to acknowledge the contributions of others. One of the Top 100 is a known plagerist and thief. He got nailed big time in another Forum. Even down to the URL where he stole the image and claimed it as his own. And there he is in the Top 100.

So much for 'The Top 100' artists. Artists? Crap!

Side Note: I'm suprised that someone from the Poser Forum hasn't popped in to give their opinion.

But than again, maybe I shouldn't be.

As I've said before: Screw the ratings. Let's just make stuff we like.

And if you like it, chances are others will too.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php

I am a heretic, in the Brysters definition of the word, because I use poser, or should I say I use poser models in my images. Sometimes I even render in poser, although most often it is bryce I use. I also use Photoshop, sometimes for prework, sometimes for postwork, so I guess really a lot of my art is mixed medium.

I am as causitc as most when it comes to bad poser "art", and unfortunately far too often it is the bad poser stuff which dominates in the Rend galleries. I haven't been making many images just lately, but my latest was in the poser gallery. It may or may not be good, but it certainly doesn't look anything like the stuff you have all been running down.

There are some good poser artists around......you just need to find them amongst all the crap.

If I find time I will hunt down a few of my favourites and post links.

Thank you very much chohole. You're absolutly right; there are some terrific Poser artists out there. It just seems though that the big bad chunks float to the top ;).

Please post some of your favorites. I think we all need to see some good Poser art just to keep a fair perspective.

Human nature demands that public majority sentiment will sink to the lowest common denominator.
"Mob Rules"

I always found richardson's to be pretty decent poser work

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1321766&member

Nowever here is one that pulls off a good image every so often, but like me she needs postwork to pull it off.

@ deadwarrior: Yah, the Roger Dean artworks are very nice. Great stuff over at his web site, especially under the topic Architecture. I'm only familiar with a few YES stuff... the most of Jon Anderson's work I'm familiar is what he does with Vangelis... I'm a Vangelis fan.