I was experimenting to solve some problems with the breast and tried to create two more body parts, rNipple and lNipple parented to the chest.
The preliminary results were amazing even I did only the joint parameters of xrot with the Rnipple and I am nothing skilled with joint parameters and deformers.
With only xrot, yrot and scales you can control the full dynamics of each breast and things that cannot be done with magnets.
There are two problems, the first one is that the existent breast morphs will not work anymore, problem that can be solved with some software for automatic morph conversion.
The second problem is tragic and sad, I cannot share my results!
As I am modifying an existent original figure geometry creating two new groups, due copyrights I cannot share the modifyed geometry neither any encoder will work because it doesn't store the modifications that I created. The only thing that I can share are the images created using a "new" Vicky.
Anyway is an excellent idea for the figure makers to be worked out  whith the creation of new figures.
No pictures to show yet, I need some weeks of work, maybe less, depending on the available time that I have.

Yes, this is how Apollo is rigged (pectoral bones) and how breasts are done in other examples I've seen (Meg included with C4D).  Works very well.  Since you can't sell it, maybe if you care to share, you can write a detailed tutorial and post that.
ps: I should have said so initially, very clever of you to come up with how to do it in Poser on a pre-existing figure, I don't think I've heard of anybody doing this as a retrofit

You don't have to assign any geometry to them, therefore you'd be able to distribute a file that contains only the nipple bones, along with instructions for adding them to existing CR2 files. The downside is that they're not as easy to select, but most users who are advanced enough to use such a thing should probably be able to figure it out.

couldn't you add a control handle much the way some conforming clothing is done, e.g. Hongyu's dresses?
Kawecki if it turns out you can sell this, I predict you will make quite a bit of money off of it.

A control handle for breast dynamic? Isn't it the dream of A LOT of men? héhé

Maybe I can be able to post a cr2 with joint parameters without any morphs, clothes do it!
The modification of the geometry file must be done by yourself and is very easy with a text editor.
What I've done until now as I didn't want to work with the whole figure, was to export the only the chest, with a text editor created two new groups, is easy, you have the nipple material, so half of the faces within the nipple material is the left and the other half is the right nipple, the remaining faces are the chest.
Then I imported this new chest, spanned the groups, parented the nipples to the chest and created a new figure, then deleted all and loaded the new chest figure.
Next was to setup the joint parameters, to find the center and orientation was easy, but the problem was with xrot (the only one that I tried).
Xrot affects the whole chest and not only one nipple, so I have to enable the spherical fallouts in the joint editor. It was an headache to find the location and size of the in and out spheres, I have never used before the fallouts, so I'm a novice. After an hour I achieved some usable even not perfect, it needs more work yet, and zrot was working.
I tested also yrot and zscale that have no joint setup work done, so it affected both nipples, even so with the working xrot and the not done yrot and zscale, my eyes were amazed of what can be achieved once all the joint data is properly set, too much work to be done yet.
I have worked only the the chest alone and remains some questions of what will happen when I add the new body parts with their respective joints to an existent cr2:
1- I used Vicky4 and as she is full of magnets the question is, will have the magnets any negative effects on the new figure?
2- The fallout zones of the other body parts as abdomen or the chest itself will have any negative effect on the new nipples?, have I to edit them too or are OK as it are?
3- This one I know, all the breast morphs will not work.

Quote - A control handle for breast dynamic? Isn't it the dream of A LOT of men? héhé

Imagine the use of "point at"

Quote - Imagine the use of "point at"

LOL :woot:

I suspect you could do this without actually modifying the geometry, allowing morphs to keep working.  V4's breast movement is all magnets anyway - the dials that look like morphs are actually ERC dials that move magnets - so if what you did broke breast movement, it may have broken all the magnets - I think you may have changed or removed the polygon group for the Chest, or whatever actor the breast movement magnets actagainst.  Or perhaps you changed or removed the ERC channel at work.  I'd bet you can work around that if you keep digging.

Quote - I suspect you could do this without actually modifying the geometry, allowing morphs to keep working.  V4's breast movement is all magnets anyway - the dials that look like morphs are actually ERC dials that move magnets

NO, I never was able to rotate down the nipple with magnets in any figure, rotate up works, but rotate down never.
This is what just I was trying to do when I did my discovering.
As I never was able to make a nipple point down with magnets, I took a different approach.
My idea was to export the chest, create a new figure with nipples, rotate down the nipple and then export the chest as a new morph target and what discovered was something much better than a morph target with the nipple pointing down.

Well what I'm getting at is, if you find a way to package and sell an add-on set of breast bones, you may have found a way to print money.

What you are describing is something like body handles! Sara was the first female and my nea p4 has too! What you can do not to modify original geometry is adding 2 spheres on the area of the nipples that will be named as nipple group! The setup will be the same as you have now!

Found an example of DAZ not having a problem with something like this being sold as a retrofit:
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=663 (look at the "What's Included and Features" list)

Kawecki if you do figure this out I think it will do quite well, given the popularity of V4.

Hello pitklad! Are you back or just visiting! I hope things have been good for you.

I have very long wanted a tutorial for simpletons on how to add body handles to the breasts, and maybe the thighs, but definately the breasts. I don't do a lot of breast sculpting and I think the handles would be a great way of dealing with gravity effects on mesh heavy figures without the overhead of morphs on my old machine.

If anyway has the time to write a dummies tutorial on adding body handles to an existing figure I would really apreciate theopportunity to give it a try.

Actually I think Girl was the first figure to use them, wasn't she?

I've done fine getting them to look how I want, but moving them around is another story.  The builtin movements are not that good.  Kind of surprised that Posermatic has not done some extended breast movement morphs now that NGM is out.

Hi, some months ago I did an approach with separate nipple props,
parented to the right and left breast/shoulder. I used them to get
bigger nipples with larger detailed textures. the results are very
satisfying -
see some example pics here (nudity - of course):
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1548613
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1531003
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1504557
http://www.joes3dfantasyworlds.com/galleries/girls03/newnipples00s.jpg

I never posted them as feestuff, because:
a) the textures are not my very own creation
b) the geometry was ripped from the original V3 figure
c) they don't stay in place when I change the pose (although parented), don't know, why ...

I don't see why this can't be distributed as two RTEncoder files, one for the new geometry and another for the new CR2.

With the obj file it would only need to contain the chest geometry, this could then be loaded from the new cr2 using 'objFileGeom' like so:

actor abdomen:1
 {
 storageOffset 0 0 0
 geomHandlerGeom 13 abdomen 
 }
actor chest:1
 {
 storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
 objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:SuperBoobs:NewChest.obj 
 }
actor neck:1
 {
 storageOffset 0 0 0
 geomHandlerGeom 13 neck 
 }

Or even better the cr2 could use geometry swapping as used for the Dawk's hip, so that users have the option to swap between the new chest and the standard one.

P.S. I say "chest" geometry, but in V4 wouldn't  the breasts be in the collars? Don't know, don't have V4. But the principle is still the same.

Nope, in V4 the breasts are all on one actor, the Chest - that is why the "morphs" could be done with magnets, without the need for JCMs for different actors.  (good and bad things about that)

As pjz99 said the breasts of V4 are just linked magnets tied to a parameter dial, so no geometry is involved here so the breasts not working any more is just that the ERC links had been broken or the IK chain had to be updated to accommodate the new parts. Easy to fix.

I tell you this because the first incarnation of NBS for V4 was something along the lines of what kawecki did. One of the downside of it is when you add new groups the vertex order change so none of the morphs of V4 works anymore in the chest area. So you will lose DAZ body morphs or my NGM morphs which is a tragedy! ;D

This means of course that all the body morphs or muscular morphs had to be incorporated to the new chest figure to regain body morphs and believe me there is no automatic process for this you have to redo them by hand ant they are a lot!

I have tried other ideas also but eventually I returned to the geometry morphs for NBS because right now is the only way to obtain precise bends or folds in the figure breasts. Maybe if Poser had vertex maps a nice rig could be developed for breast movements but right now we have only joint parameters. And they are not enough for this.

NBS for V4 is now in its final stage, has taken a little more than I had wanted for various reasons but I can tell you is very close now.

ricardo, if you get a chance. please post a gifanimation of these things in action.

Quote - What you can do not to modify original geometry is adding 2 spheres on the area of the nipples

Maybe it will work, I can add two new fake groups with no geometry at all and so, only the cr2 will be modifyed.

Posermatic:

Quote - NBS for V4 is now in its final stage, has taken a little more than I had wanted for various reasons but I can tell you is very close now.

Lookin forward to it!  Or them!  boing boing

Quote - This means of course that all the body morphs or muscular morphs had to be incorporated to the new chest figure to regain body morphs and believe me there is no automatic process for this you have to redo them by hand ant they are a lot!

I found a solution that will solve all the problems and copyrights too: A software cr2 updater!
You load the original or personal cr2 file and the software will modify it with the new groups creating a new cr2.

Quote - Lookin forward to it!  Or them!  boing boing

LOL!!!! Loved the sound of it, or them ;D

kawecki, what you said sounds terrific! But how could you mantain the vertex order if you add new groups?
If you succeed then it will be a nice cool tool for doing much more than nipples and breast morphs.
Hope that you can pull it off!

Quote - Lookin forward to it!  Or them!  boing boing

  :woot: Nice to know V4 will stop to be a 'anti-gravity" woman LOL

Ouch it is indeed O.o Glad to learn something new though, and looking forward to more pics (and less painful ones too).

:blink: :scared:

**kawecki, awesome! i would love the updater but would love even more a tutorial so I could apply this to other figures. Terrific!
**

Good gravy that looks painful :scared:  >.<

That's really looking very bright.  Wierd, but certainly with a lot of potential.

Very cool accomplishment, kawecki! Looks like it could be very useful and I'd certainly be very interested in buying if you release it :)

jenay - love the renders! (shame you couldn't share the props...)

May i suggest a thing to posermatic or other experts ?

I'm very fond of NBS for V3, it really is a great realism booster, and i eagerly wait for NBS for V4.

But to my opinion, there is another part of the female anatomy that need more realism, it is the buttocks.
This part too is a fat mass that change according to gravity and then position. Would be it possible to have an equivalent of NBS for the bottom ?

Thanks

Is there a tutorial anywhere for how I could add body handles to the Daz figures I already have?

Cool. Thanks.

bkmk

just wondering if this had been released yet? it really looks rather nice... :)

yes - I saw them - at the r'otica-store :)

Yes a tutorial sounds like a perfect idea.
I came in on the end of all of this so probably lost out on some of it.
Great tweak...(8)

thanks jenay - I'm very probably being very dense, but I can't seem to find the item there...

Look among vendors  for my name.
I am going to upload here, but it will take rwo weeks to appear in the shop..

U found a problem and a nystery, the problem can be solved, but the mystery I cannot understand.:
Existenr conforming clothes and hair do not conform to this new Vicky, this can be solved if the updater is applied ro the hair or dress creating a new one with nipples wth the colateral effect that you have a duplicated set of hair and clothes in the Poser's library.
This is only for the upper paer of the body, clothes that have only the lower part don'r need to be updated.
Also the cloth or hair must have the chest and abdomen to work an be updated.
THe mystery is why are not compatible?????, the figures have the common parts with the same center and joint parameters, the only difference is tha one figure has two more or less body parts rhan the other.
Sherlock, where are you????!!!!

just to say, if it's not totally OT, you can encode anything to anything else.  you could totally change the v4 mesh, encode it the original, and re-sell it.  if i don't misunderstand his technique, that's in fact how Jim Burton distributes his revamps.  what you're doing is locking a file and making another file the key.  it has nothing to do with the nature of either file.

I have a different apprpach. I don't encode anything, don't decode, use nothing for the ket, no original data is included in the updater and you even don't need to hace the orifinal figure.
I obly add the information of these two new body parts to any existent character.
As I found a way to add new body parts without the need of modifying the geometry I only change the cr2.
Of course, if you don't own Vicky4 oe any Vicky4 comoatible or conforming character and apply the updater you will not have Vicky4 with nipples, you will have some other figure with nipples and unless this figure has a similar geometric shape the result will not be good.

hahahahaha.....and a new superhero is born!!!! laser and/or plasma beams.

Gotta luv it!

Nolos
'I think there is a point to all of this.'

I would like to know if the python script jiggles from ockham can achieve the same effect ?

thanks for your hints

roland