That is EXACTLY what PEnguinisto was saying, Sean... he was responding to someone else who was pointig at the low-res textures of the film as an indicator that Poser was capable of better, and saying that in film, there is no need to have such high textures - things move so quickly, and the screen resolution is of such (comparatively) low quality, that lower textures and lower-poly models can be gotten away with, in order to maximise render times per framce.

JonTheCelt

He was actually responding to my earlier post. But whatever.

I like using Lightwave to make Poser modeles. In my world the applications get along just fine:)

patorak we set up Lightwaves workspace almost exactly the same. :D

I stopped reading the other forum after about, oh three pages.  Frankly, not even bothering with the kevlar anymore, and really don't care what the opinion is of me if i vent some of my truer feelings about this.

These elitists, for whatever purpose, because they can afford (or jack off someone else for free) outrageously expensive programs, perhaps to look down at poser users and heckle, are starting to mess with my livelyhood.     Word gets around, no matter how you try and stop it.  There is few places to go anymore to do any serious type poser art and be seen, unless you have a trillion friends going "Oh lovely!" in response in comments.   I cant find others who are really serious about it, without going through many sites and galleries laiden with private parts ex'ed out or content advisories.    I am not bashing the nude artform, nor am i bashing beginners.

However, there is nowhere out there where people who are NOT hobbiests can go for poser, and not be thrown in with new users and hundreds of default vickies.

I use poser, sure.  I use it for what it was originally intended for, back then that was respectable.  you used it as a model, then you painted.  It was a guide not an entire 3d render engine genie.   Now?  If i even hint i use poser, people even the casual every day person walking by my gallery wrinkles their nose and turns away.

And its not the poser users doing this, its the elitists, and thats why I have a problem with them.  They are bashing and killing in the real world a tool used to create art.    Those that use it with utmost passion, are frowned on?

What should i shell out about three thousand dollars to do exactly what i do now, to ease their egotistical pragmatic mindselts?

Hell no.

I make monkeys in poser...

It's fun...

:)~~~~~

I model them in Lightwave, thats fun too.....

I stopped giving a damn what people think about my tools or my methods long ago....

I do what I do and have FUN doing it... :)

I'm a Waver and a Poser.... Sweetness!!!!!

And its not the poser users doing this, its the elitists, and thats why I have a problem with them.  

Why worry about what a small set of extreme thinkers and crappy people has to say anyway?
The more they get ignored, the less of a voice they get to have. Except for mumbling and grumbling all to themselves.

(Someone ought to make a poser animation out of that visual)

bad news, by the way. there are already bad reviews of beowulf. :crying: the director apparently made the usual misteak that these UCLA Film schoolboys make - extended face shots and close-ups of the characters. it always registers on the test audience as creepy or even scary, due to the lack of real-world experience of the animators, combined with their inadequate attempts in animating expressions and skin-muscle interactions.

If it's done with the same level of professionalism as Hawk the Slayer, then I'll be interested.  However: if it's done with the same level of professionalism as the latest Star Wars films, then I won't be interested.

Bad reviews might even serve to attract my interest, if the bad reviews are bad for the right reasons.  The public usually hates what the critcs love, anyway.

LOTR's.....?  It's OK, but it's not true to the books.  They made major characters out of extremely mnor characters from the books, among other things.  They also jacked around with the story for the sake of being PC.  That's a big negative in my book.

Hi Tate

Greetings fellow Waver and Poserer!  Great monkey!  Did you rig it in lightwave too?  I like having the panels handy,  'specially the layers panel. 

Cheers

Pat

No, he was rigged in Poser. Although I have to admit (please dont flame me peeps) Rigging in Lightwave is way easer! I wish Poser had acual weight maps instead of groups. It would make my life so much easer! :)
 

Quote - No, he was rigged in Poser. Although I have to admit (please dont flame me peeps) Rigging in Lightwave is way easer! I wish Poser had acual weight maps instead of groups. It would make my life so much easer! :)
 

The chances of your getting flamed for making a statement as innocuous as that are virtially non-existent, I'd say.  That's not the type of remark that's guaranteed flame-bait.  Throw in a few suggestions about the doubtful ancestry of Poser users in general, and then tack on comments / implications about the phrase "Poser Art" being an oxymoron -- THAT would get you noticed. 

I don't think anyone will flame you.  Everyone knows Poser needs weight mapping,  although it may kick up the price a bit.  I'd like to see support for Sub-D,  multiple uvmaps,  and normal maps,  too.

Quote - > Quote -

And yet, and yet, and yet....  he makes some very valid points, just the same.  If someone is cranking out 100% canned image day after day, **are they really on the same plane as Michelangelo? ** Plainly, no.

 

SAY WHAT??? And who the fuck at Newtek is Michelangelo???? I hate that BS comparison. We're all making 3d toys essentially. This whole "art vs non-art" debate is such pretentious nonsense!

Now your talking. Sub-D would be fantastic!

I know next to nothing about Lightwave specifics, and have a question.
Is it true that it's rigging translates into poser? Am I totally misinformed here?

Quote - I know next to nothing about Lightwave specifics, and have a question.
Is it true that it's rigging translates into poser? Am I totally misinformed here?

not that I'm aware of. If it did I think that nobody would be rigging in poser.

I don't know...   I haven't tried it.  ...Actually,  I've been too scared too.  Firing up the Wave in that aspect may cause a rift in the space time continuim of the Poserverse.

There is no way to rig in Lightwave then bring it over to Poser. I wish there was! :)
I do however do all the grouping in Lightwave, I cant stand Posers grouping tools.
They hurt my brain.... :D~~~~~

Quote - > Quote -

And yet, and yet, and yet....  he makes some very valid points, just the same.  If someone is cranking out 100% canned image day after day, **are they really on the same plane as Michelangelo? ** Plainly, no.

 
SAY WHAT??? And who the fuck at Newtek is Michelangelo???? I hate that BS comparison. We're all making 3d toys essentially. This whole "art vs non-art" debate is such pretentious nonsense!

You missed the point - you don't have to BE Michelangelo to see his artwork and know that it's on a much higher level than pretty much anything displayed here (or in the Newtek gallery for that matter).  You also don't have to BE Michelangelo to recognize bad art.  This was in response to the sentiment that "the only thing that matters is whether you're having fun".  True enough, if all you're doing is showing the stuff to your mom (or pandering to the numbers game here in the gallery).  When you buy things though, things that you pay money for - is the price you're willing to pay weighted towards what great fun the seller had preparing the item (whatever that item is), or how you value the product?  

Oops, forget I asked that - nobody is allowed to put value on things, because there are no standards or rules or measurements.  I'm okay, you're okay!

I hear ya on the grouping and rigging in poser 
:lol:  I keep wondering what kind of masochistic streak got me into poser rigging :lol:

I tend to use UV mapper for grouping. The way it structured the obj filem you can group things without messing up the vertex order... (that's a whole new thread though...)

Tate's Ranting Lightwave Model to Poser Figure Tutorial

First you create your model in Modeler. And instead of creating weight maps like you would to rig in Lightwave you need to create groups for Poser. To do this you need to select the polygons that you want grouped, like the left forearm for example. So, you selected the polygons you need to create the Left forearm group, now with those polys selected press the view tab in modeler. In your menu you will see the create part button. Click on it; now name your part lForeArm... or whatever you want to call it. Do this for all the different body parts, head, neck, chest, hip, ect....
Once you have all the body parts grouped in Lightwave you need to freeze your model. Now export you model as an object. Open up Poser, import you object. Now click the Setup tab to go into the set up room. Use Poser's bone tool to build your rig. Make sure when you name the bones in Poser, the names of the bones mach the names of the groups you created in Lightwave.
Once your rig is built you need to spend a bit of time tweaking the crap out of the rig, Work out the joint perameters. Now add your morphs and you've got a poser figure.
                    I know this is pointless ranting but hey, somene might find this useful.

Love the Wave, even if your a Poser. The Two together do great things:)))

Quote - I hear ya on the grouping and rigging in poser 
:lol:  I keep wondering what kind of masochistic streak got me into poser rigging :lol:

I tend to use UV mapper for grouping. The way it structured the obj filem you can group things without messing up the vertex order... (that's a whole new thread though...)

I find rigging in Poser to be as painful as Dental surgry in a third world country, with a rusty spoon...
I've broken many a mouse doing it but hey, I get to share my models with everyone afterwards so, thats cool!

Quote - There's only one Michelangelo!

Ahhh.... The coolest one!!!

Quote - I don't think anyone will flame you.  Everyone knows Poser needs weight mapping,  although it may kick up the price a bit.  I'd like to see support for Sub-D,  multiple uvmaps,  and normal maps,  too.

And we all intend to keep pestering until we get it, don't we? I know that weightmapping or some kind of sub-D has been requested every time a 'What new feature' poll is fielded by eF. And if they could do it without voiding the support for the current system it would be fantastic. Older stuff could be converted over time (and interest); for that matter, combining the two systems might yield even more power....

*Oops, forget I asked that - nobody is allowed to put value on things, because there are no standards or rules or measurements.  I'm okay, you're okay!

*Good thing you changed your mind!  I think I hear jackboots marching down the thread!

Hey Dale

Maybe EF could sideline the current Poser into Poser Classic and start anew with Posamation.

Cheers

Pat

Yeah, Patorak, I sorta agree. 
I think it's time for poser to grow up a little. I think most of it's user base is ready for new and improved rigging style... or sumphtin like that.

Tate, yes, that's one of the fun things with Poser (for me), sharing things with others :)

Poser 5,6,7 has run it's course.  EF now has a choice live and die on V3 content isolation or return to it's Metacreation days and make it compatible with the high end apps.  By compatible,  I mean both import and export,  not just the obj,  but the cr2 as well.   In this,  I believe Poser will regain it's former glory.

Quote - Yeah, Patorak, I sorta agree. 
I think it's time for poser to grow up a little.

I think that this is a part of what ef is attempting to do with Poser Pro.  Or at least they are trying to head in that direction.  If it doesn't actually 'grow up' just yet -- perhaps Poser will have gotten into its adolescence.  And as we all know: adolescence can be a difficult time.  But it's headed in the right direction, with no arrested development.

We'll see how they manage it.

I hope so!  Because,  I'm not going to upgrade to another bean counter version of Poser5,6,7 catering to mil figures and such,  with their primitve mesh,  textures, and rigging!

Xeno, I hope that's what they're doing... however... what I saw on that list of features was a downer. Interaction with big apps as the only major improvement at this point is a bit too little too late. Most people that had interest in this had found plugins that'll do the job.
I know for me, that alone isn't an incentive to upgrade.

A big selling point for me would be better rigging abilities and better rigging tools in addition to interaction with big apps.

Imagine the world where V5 bends without the major anatomically incorrect heels and albows due to simplistic poser rigging...  Imagine translation of falloff spheres into weght maps and working across multiple groups...  Imagine two children bones not needing a hack to work on a skirt bend...

I bet most of the poser customer base has computer sustems powerful enough to handle a bit of a rigging system upgrade....

anyway... I'm off the soap box...

Conniekat8, did you ever try the Greenbriar program that claims to make rigging for Poser easier? I’d like to know if it’s worth trying, but I’ve never seen a report on it one way or the other.

Alternatively, imagine if they improved the render engine to the point where there wasn't a pressing need to export to a foreign app just to take advantage of higher quality rendering technology?

PJZ, I agree about the rendering too...  dare I say that goes without saying :)

Paloth, I was getting ready to demo the greenbriar tools, when my rigging problem resolved itself (something sunk in), so I passed up on the demo for the moment - in the interest of moving forward on the project I'm doing. 
Perhaps when I'm done with it, I'll revisit the tools.

As I plan to sidegrade, I can at least check out how their network rendering scheme works and co-exists with other systems of the like....and it would probably behoove the tinkerers who do sidegrade to poke about a bit; no telling what may be under the hood, waiting....

What amuses me in threads like these (and I haven't read the thing that was linked to, my mood is mediochre at best and I have no intentions of ruining that...) is how everybody seems to agree that Poser Porn is something akin to the Anti Christ.

If everybody hated porn, Poser generated or not, it wouldn't be such a huge market as it is. Even this site (as family friendly as it is) is a clear exapmle that Sex Sells. And why not? at least with Poser Porn, no REAL people are exploited or hurt.

And no, I'm not buying the "CGI causing people to act weird things out IRL" - if you're sick, you'll find fodder for your sick fantasies even without Poser around to facilitate that. And on the other side, Poser may be a valve for some people, to see things they can't do or see IRL - for instance someone having sex with an alien or a monster ect. In my opinion that's no worse than rendering tons of innocent (!) faeries. It's all make believe. Things that aren't real.

Poser isn't art. Poser is a computer program. Poser generated pictures MAY be art. As may something done with other tools. I've seen stuff exhibited in art museums I wouldn't even soil my garbage bin with. Art is in the eye of the beholder.

Quote - >> By the way Beowolf looks very cool, that's the same guy from 300, isn't it? Nope. It's from, of all people, Robert Zawekis, who gave us the god-awful Polar Express.

How dare you cast aspersions on the mega-hit agitprop masterpiece extolling the virtuals of the Elf Peoples Socialist Republic of the North Pole and its glorious (yet equal) leader Commisar Santa? Running dog lacky of capitalist imperialist scroogehood! We will bury you, ... in snow!

Seriously, that movie creeped me out. When they got to the North Pole, my wife said "A bit Stalinistic, isn't it."

the latest news is that zemeckis hired some nerd to direct beowulf, then took over as director when the nerd flopped. this was in a positive review of the film, IMVHO planted by the studio, but it might have been a review by somebody who actually saw the film, for all I know. the reviewer seems to have ignored all the prior films, television shows and novels that were adaptations of the original anglo-saxon myth, even to the point of erroneously referring to it as a "viking" story.

hehe, "a viking story." Thanks for the laugh.

Actually, the Vikings stole the story of Beowulf from ancient Egypt.  And it happened at about the same time that the Greeks stole Western Civilization from Egypt.

"Beowulf" is in reality an Egyptian name.  Tutankhamen's dog was named Beowulf.  His eldest son was named Beowulf, too.  The Vikings kidnapped both of them, and then got the story of Beowulf from Beowulf -- the Egyptian prince.

The Vikings also stole the idea of sailing to the Americas from the Egyptians, too.  Nothing in the history of the world has every happened or been accomplished without first stealing the idea from the Egyptians.

Quote - ...Nothing in the history of the world has every happened or been accomplished without first stealing the idea from the Egyptians.

Who in turn stoled all of their ideas from the Mesopotamians...:rolleyes:

True, true........