like it says , is Carrara 6 better than poser? 
atm i have poser 7/6/5. but i am just not getting what i want from poser, i have been told that Carrara 6 will let me render larger and better lite images, so i am asking anyone who has made the move. is it batter?

Its better ..but its not a replacing of poser ... 
I use Car 6 pro a lot for renders but i do a lot of scene setup in poser...

But in quality of rendering and speed etc etc ..Car is IMHO 100 time better..
My last 3 image "4 ELEMENTS" are done in CAR 6 ..i cannot do that in poser ...
maybe it can be done but not with the eas i di it in CAR ..
I think that DAZ should stop with DS and do only CAR and that whould be a Poser killer IMHO

Chris

Carrara is capable of producing some fantastic images...but so is Poser.  They both have advantages and disadvantages.

Personally although I think the render engine in Carrara is fantastic, I hate the interface so Poser / Vue tend to be my main rendering tools.

I'd say that before you go paying for Carrara 6, why not try the download demo of Carrara 5 Pro?  Although it's not exactly the same as v6 it would give you an idea of what you're getting before you shell out your cash for it.

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/support/downloads/-/?product=car_down

Apparently the full version is also available on issue 100 of 3D World.

so if the full version is in 3dworld, dose that mean i could upgrade to C6 at daz for $69.97?

Quote - so if the full version is in 3dworld, dose that mean i could upgrade to C6 at daz for $69.97?

 
Nah dont think so ..that simple it never is .. you might get a other cool upgrade but i never seen a upgrade like the normal buyers upgrade ..
But you can at least try CAR out .. C5 is even better then Poser IMHO and with transposer 2 you can easy load poser 6 files..

Maybe, Carrara renders do have the edge on Firefly ones.   I think Poser is better for materials, though (and Carrara can't handle Poser materials).   Also, I reckon Carrara is actually worse than Poser at memory management.   I recently tried to do a scene with three figures in, plus assorted clothes, hair and props.   Carrara basically started to crash, once the third figure was added.   It struggled to save the file and then couldn't re-open the saved file (ran out of memory).   I did the same thing in Poser.   It wasn't completely trouble-free in Poser, either, but it rendered with the Firefly settings that I wanted.   My machine has 2Gb of memory, but I think Carrara hits a brick wall at 1.5 and it can get up to 1.5 in no time flat.

Carrara 5 lacks a lot of the Poser-equivalent features that Carrara 6 has, so 6 is  the only one (I think) that can be considered any kind of alternative to Poser.    Transposer's great, if you enjoy head-butting your monitor with frustration.

 Transposer's great, if you enjoy head-butting your monitor with frustration.

Well here you can see the diffrence in views ..
I never ever have any problem with TP 2 not with Car 5 or with C6 ...
Strange that the one has numerous problems and other have non..
I have that with Hexagon ..i get smacked in the face every time i use it and othe make wonder with it....

I think thats the price we have to pay for the lower price end software
But hell if we all can pay for 3dMAX we were all Millionaires :}

Chris

I like Cararra for rendering, scene composition and lighting.  I like poser for character clothing and posing.
If you have other DAZ products (like Bryce), DAZ will give you a 'crossgrade'. A discount on purchase of Cararra or other software. If you're a platinum club member, you're most likely going to get another discount.

A year or two go, taking advantage of things like that, and sales I manages to snag C5 Pro for around 50 bucks, and upgraded to 6 Pro since then.

Well, if we all paid for 3DS Max, somebody would be a millionaire, but it wouldn't be any of us...

Quote - Well, if we all paid for 3DS Max, somebody would be a millionaire, but it wouldn't be any of us...

 
LOL .. thats even more right ...

SoulTaker - If you have the money have alook at Vue 6 Esprit or Infinite. Brilliant landscaping tools, excellent light capabilities & superb render engine. Also has great options for  Poser imports.
You can try out the PLE version which is free & has all the features of the full version aside from rendering size & they'll be watermarked and carry a logo. But you will find out if you like it or not for no cost.
Here's the link:
www.e-onsoftware.com/try/vue_6_ple/

Carrara 6 has a swift renderer capable of things that Firefly is too old or too slow for--like GI. This might be balanced somewhat by the time it takes for Carrara to open a Poser file (very slow). I haven't checked the speed for native Carrara files. One advantage of Poser over Carrara is the curve parameter, something that's essential for creatures with tails. In Carrara tails curve like a string of segmented boards. Perhaps the curve will be added to Carrara with the next patch. The issue has been "resolved" but is still pending. Carrara is a modeler and a landscape creation program and it has an advanced animation system. The modeler isn't the best, the landscapes range from a Bryce average to really good, depending on the user. (I've seen bad Vue 6 landscapes too, but I think it takes a very special artist to make a bad landscape in Vue.) All of these features leave Poser in the dust. Poser isn't even playing in the same ballpark. Of course, you won't have bagginsbill or faceoff's skin shaders in Carrara. (Smith Micro really should hire bagginsbill, or at least reward him for keeping Poser viable.) I'm still waiting for the curve parameter before I seriously delve into Carrara 6 Pro. It’s always annoying to learn a new interface—except for Modo. Carrara is particularly annoying, but maybe it's just me.

One other thing about replacing Poser with Carrara 6:  I really don't get the impression that DAZ tested any character other than V4 before releasing C6 (OK - maybe Aiko, too) .   I am quite convinced that no CP figure was tested at all, but also that most DAZ figures were overlooked, too.   When I used V3 in Carrara 6, she had all the same niggles as beset Miki 2 and Sydney.

This affects usability in some ways.   While the most obvious bugs, such as not being able to rotate the eyeballs, do seem to have been fixed, some of the remaining problems seem almost intentional.   Lots of Poser morphs work in two directions.   That's true of V4 morphs, too, but, where V4's morphs load with the slider able to move in either direction, CP figures' morphs don't.   Usually, typing in a negative value does work, but that's hardly ideal and, anyway, it doesn't always have any effect.

A related glitch in Carrara 6 is the use of "constraints", to restrict the bending of joints.   Terai Yuki 2, for example, as loaded, can't bend her elbows more than ninety degrees.   You can free the constraint, so that she can bend her arms more realistically, but the restrictive default seems totally pointless.

I do agree with Stormchaser about the superiority of Vue, but I should add that a really powerful computer, with memory adequate for real 64-bit addressing, is what Vue really needs, especially if detailed imports from Poser are involved.   Vue's landscaping does leave Carrara's blobby clouds and hopeless terrain editor standing and the Vue render engine is terrific.   Posing of imported Poser figures can be modified in Vue, but that is a very, very slow procedure on a 2Gb memory machine, like mine, so, again, Carrara 6 and DAZ Studio are the only direct equivalents to Poser at the moment.

Like BAR-CODE, I really can't see a future for DAZ Studio, now, given the evolution of Carrara.

Carrara6 has a better dynamic hair to Poser, faster render, better light handeling, particles, flame, ect.ect. my avitar was the first thing I did when I got C5pro, C6Pro is better.

Carrara does not have dynamic cloth, promised but that's a Daz promise so who knows what year that will be. Can't rig for use in Poser, DS, not sure if anything can use Carrara rigging. But. there is no rigging in Vue. It uses Poser to pose and use the Poser shaders. A few bugs but that's normal. Posing is slow and a pain compaired to Poser.

DS has gotten up there in price now. Not sure but it might be about the same price to get Carrara as it is to buy all the DS plugs, if not it's got to be close.

Try the demos of Carrara, Vue and anything else first. See what your needs are first.

I use Carrara6Pro, Vue6I with Poser 7. They all do something the other doesn't. I also use Hexagon2.1 and Modo301 for modeling. Carrara's modeling tools and room kind of sucks. 

Well, IMHO every 3D app has advantages and disadvantages. Poser is easier to pose figures in, Vue has a nice renderer and does great landsacapes, BUT Carrara has the advantage over both of having some excellent MODELLING capabilities. This is often over looked since people have heard that it;s a "Poser replacement".

While it's not a replacement it has some ability to utilize Poser and DAZ content. I think the fact that the C5-to C6 upgrade leaned heavily on adding the ability to use DAZ content makes it safe to say that DAZ will continue that trend in future upgrades. Wheither this will continue to also include Poser content is up to Smith Micro Software, which can choose to take Poser in a different direction.

IF you are interested in making 3D items to suppliment your Figure content., than you can do a lot worse than Carrara. If you are only interested in a faster/"better" renderer, than look into all of the alternative mentione and decide based on which best suits your needs. But remember that once you have purchased Carrara you're on the upgrade path, and so will have any future improvements on the use of DAZ content available at a reduced price.

mike

Can you repose a figure (example Aiko) in either Vue or Carrara?

Quote - Can you repose a figure (example Aiko) in either Vue or Carrara?

I know you can in Vue, but I haven't tried it yet as I know it'll eat my RAM up!

Quote - Can you repose a figure (example Aiko) in either Vue or Carrara?

You can definately repose figures in Cararra!

Quote - If you have other DAZ products (like Bryce), DAZ will give you a 'crossgrade'. A discount on purchase of Cararra or other software. If you're a platinum club member, you're most likely going to get another discount.

A year or two go, taking advantage of things like that, and sales I manages to snag C5 Pro for around 50 bucks, and upgraded to 6 Pro since then.

So as i own Hexagon i would be able to ask for a 'crossgrade' for C6?

Carrara 6 is intended to allow a Poser-type scene to be constructed from the ground up, i.e. cutting Poser itself (and the likes of Transposer) out of the picture.     As BAR-CODE suggested above, it also pulls the rug from under DAZ Studio, since it is hard to see how DAZ can continue for long to develop both.   It's a good while since I did anything with D/S, but I think that the content access in Carrara is based on what D/S has.   Poser geometries, textures, poses, figures - they're all at your fingertips.   Just don't ask for the Materials library.   (It's there, but it's empty.)

Vue does permit re-posing of Poser scenes and does a pretty good job of honouring Poser materials.   Vue can profit from very large amounts of memory.   I think it's safe to say that any Poser-related function in Vue requires lots of memory.   Vue is no worse than Carrara, for those of us with memory-constrained systems (possibly a bit better), but can positively benefit from having lots and lots of memory, in a way that Carrara can't.  

Even for those with 64-bit systems and vast, open prairies of memory, I believe that Vue is, for Poser-related projects, still a render engine for scenes better posed in Poser, as opposed to one in which a Poser-type scene is assembled from scratch in Vue (which is what Carrara 6 offers).   On my system, Poser adjustments to Vue work, very slowly.   I'd be interested to know how fast similar modifications take effect on a system with more memory to exploit.

Given the choice between a Poser/Vue option (involving a hardware upgrade) and a straight Carrara option, I'd choose Vue.   As it is, Carrara wouldn't profit from the hardware upgrade and, without it, on my current machine, Poser performs better than Carrara does.   Poser-to-Vue has problems with memory, but those are no worse than the ones that Carrara has, all by itself.

Vue is no worse than Carrara, for those of us with memory-constrained systems (possibly a bit better), but can positively benefit from having lots and lots of memory, in a way that Carrara can't. I don't believe this is true. In my experience, Vue 5 Infinite was a useless basket case for Poser content, running out of memory with just one clothed Poser figure loaded, despite my two gigs of RAM. From what I've heard, Vue 6 didn't improve matters for older systems--though with a 64 bit os and eight gigs of memory it works perfectly. I’ve found that Carrara can load multiple Poser figures.

I run Vue 6 Infinite on a 32bit system with only 1GB RAM. I personally have few problems. I just need to be careful with my workflow. Using one or two figures (ie V3's) is OK & I make sure I purge my memory after every import. If my resources ever get below 50% I just resave, close Vue & then reopen it. Also, I have my viewports in wireframe until I need to change to smooth shaded for certain work points. Same with the really small preview window, I only have it on when needed, ie adjusting the atmosphere. This really saves on resources. I also try to only have my PaintShop Pro & one webpage up, as having other programs running would eat my remaining RAM.
This may sound like a pain to do but I'm used to it now so I can work with very few problems.

Just to add, I've never used multiple figures like 3 or more, but I know this would eat my RAM!

How do you go about purging the memory? I must admit, I've never tried that.

Paloth - This is crucial. Without this my resources would drop below 25% & then I'd be stuck.
Where you find your resources status is the same place you find your polygon count. I assume you know you can switch between the two by using the arrow. I just feel it's important to constantly keep an eye on the resources & purge when necessary.

I'll reinstall Vue 5 Infinite and see if I can work with that. Thanks.

Good luck. It should make your workflow much more manageable.

Here's an example of what purging your memory can do.

I've just done this now. After my import of a V3 figure, hair, clothes & a chair prop my resources came down to 59%. If I couldn't purge my memory I would start to struggle after working around in my scene after a certain amount of time & eventually this would drop below 40% I reckon. So now I purge it. My resources now go back up to 78%. It may not seem alot, but it is. After working within the scene, changing atmosphere. working with lights, materials, camera etc I may lose some resources again, so I go back to purging. If I don't import anything else into my scene I can generally keep my resources over 70%, good stuff!

Its the 4000x4000 textures so common in poser thats eating up your memory, not so much the geometry.

onnetz - Yeah, but I generally need as much detail as possible for my work so I'm prepared to put up with the constant purging. I would only resize my textures for figures in the distance.

The relationship of P6 and C5P was straightforward: C5P blew Poser out of the water with Transposer installed. Faster, crash-free, vastly better lighting controls... you name it. P7 offered some improvements that evened things up, notably in rendering times and sizes. C6P came out over hyped (what else is new?) and larded up with "promises." And it has problems with P7 -- notably, it won't recognize it as a legitimate Poser to support TransPoser, so if you don't have a P5 or P6 installed, that functionality is not available.

My analysis after working with the two programs for a couple of weeks: I'm fed up with the problems (not limitations, problems) in P7 and have no intention of upgrading yet again to get another round of legacy crap and fresh chrome. Using C6P exclusively means relearning a bunch of work methods and walking away from the biggest improvement in P7: materials handling. But I'm on my way. C5P has as much potential for materials creation as P7 does, but the two approaches are so different that there's not much crossover. Fortunately, DAZ has merged the C5P world with the Poser world, and some of the deficiencies (superb models for skin, for example) are being remedied.

There's no purge memory option in Vue 5 Infinite. This program is infinitely disappointing. One Poser import brings me to 50% of resources.

Paloth - That has surpised me. I really thought version 5 would have it. Is there no chance of you getting an upgrade?

I don’t know if the upgrade is still available. Once I have my 64 bit system I’ll look into it.

Quote - The relationship of P6 and C5P was straightforward: C5P blew Poser out of the water with Transposer installed. Faster, crash-free, vastly better lighting controls... you name it. P7 offered some improvements that evened things up, notably in rendering times and sizes. C6P came out over hyped (what else is new?) and larded up with "promises." And it has problems with P7 -- notably, it won't recognize it as a legitimate Poser to support TransPoser, so if you don't have a P5 or P6 installed, that functionality is not available.

My analysis after working with the two programs for a couple of weeks: I'm fed up with the problems (not limitations, problems) in P7 and have no intention of upgrading yet again to get another round of legacy crap and fresh chrome. Using C6P exclusively means relearning a bunch of work methods and walking away from the biggest improvement in P7: materials handling. But I'm on my way. C5P has as much potential for materials creation as P7 does, but the two approaches are so different that there's not much crossover. Fortunately, DAZ has merged the C5P world with the Poser world, and some of the deficiencies (superb models for skin, for example) are being remedied.

I have Carrara 5 Standard, Transposer and Poser 6 and never used it, because Carrara/Transposer couldn't deal with multiple Poser runtimes. Has this ever been fixed? I now have a Q6600 CPU and Carrara could use all 4 cores for rendering.

>>> Using C6P exclusively means relearning a bunch of work methods and walking away from the biggest improvement in P7: materials handling. But I'm on my way. <<<

Same here. The only thing that will get me interested in Poser 7 Pro or Poser 8 is a new rigging system and support for low-poly models. And even then, the main reason I'd get it is for content development.

After finishing Practical Poser 7, I needed a serious break from Poser. I decided to learn DAZ Studio, and then Carrara and have been working with them for several months now. Recently, I opened up Poser for the first time in months. After using DAZ Studio and Carrara for a while, Poser seemed ... well ... OLD.  Like most of us here, I don't want to see Poser fade away completely. Been using it since version 1. BUT it definitely COULD use some shiny new features to bring it up to modern times.

>>> I have Carrara 5 Standard, Transposer and Poser 6 and never used it, because Carrara/Transposer couldn't deal with multiple Poser runtimes. Has this ever been fixed? I now have a Q6600 CPU and Carrara could use all 4 cores for rendering. <<<

The Browser tray in Carrara 6 now has a "Content" tab where you can add multiple runtimes and load items into Carrara straight from the browser tray ... characters, hair, props, mat poses, morph dials work, and so on. And yes, you can use content from multiple runtimes.

I might be wrong on this, but I think the main reason people still use Transposer is for Dynamic Clothing support. Other than that, you can pretty much do anything in Carrara that you can in Poser, and then some. The Poser materials created in the material room don't directly import. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Carrara's shaders are inferior (they are actually just as powerful as Poser's node-based materials). It's just that shaders are usually software-specific. Still ... Carrara's shaders can do pretty much anything that Poser's can, just that they use different methods to get there. That's my next learning curve.

Some people may prefer the Poser/Vue combination, but there is also a LOT to be said for doing it all in the same program. No transfering in and out, and all that.

I like Carrara 6 Pro -- but suggestions / implications that Poser is on its way out need to be taken about as seriously as suggestions that the Windows OS is on its way out.  Such ideas are more like wishful thinking (for whatever reasons).

While such results are admittedly possible in the long-term (anything is possible in the long-term): I'd say that 'the end of Poser' is most definitely not the way to bet in the short term (meaning in the foreseeable future).

Saying -- or implying -- that Poser is obviously on its way out because half-a-dozen individuals post in the forum that they're still using P4 is a bit (semi-sarcastic understatement intended) of an illogical stretch.

I have Carrara 6 Pro -- and I recommend it.  But I'm not planning on dropping Poser anytime soon.  Most people in this game aren't.

*>> I like Carrara 6 Pro -- but suggestions / implications that Poser is on its way out need to be taken about as seriously as suggestions that the Windows OS is on its way out.  Such ideas are more like wishful thinking (for whatever reasons). <<

I have Carrara 6 Pro -- and I recommend it.  But I'm not planning on dropping Poser anytime soon.  Most people in this game aren't. <<

Maybe yes, maybe no. I think each person has to make up their own mind, and it all depends on what they want to accomplish with the program.

I do want to comment on one point you made in your post, though ... I don't see anywhere in THIS thread where anyone implied that Poser is on its way out. A decision not to upgrade unless certain features are included isn't signaling doom for the program as a whole ... only that this time around (and for the FIRST time since Poser 1), it won't be an automatic upgrade for me as it has always been in the past. I hope to see some major new features before I upgrade. As far as Content Development goes, the features are relatively unchanged from version to version since P4 (except materials, that is) and there isn't a LOT of reason for me to upgrade if there aren't any major changes in that regard. If P7 Pro or P8 has significant changes in those areas I'll upgrade. If not, I probably won't. 8-)

If you're referring to the "Like most of us here I don't want to see Poser fade away completely" part, that's an honest statement. I don't want to see it fade away completely. It's an old friend. But I said that to balance out the rest of my reply, lest I be accused of being a hardcore DAZ fan. Been around these forums a long time, doncha know.

;-)

Quote - If P7 Pro or P8 has what I really would like to see, I'll upgrade. If not, I won't. 8-)

Fair enough -- that's what most people do.  Personally, I'm looking forward to the 64-bit aspects of Poser Pro.

Quote - If you're referring to the "Like most of us here I don't want to see Poser fade away completely" part, that's an honest statement. I don't want to see it fade away completely. It's an old friend. But I said that to balance out the rest of my reply, lest I be accused of being a hardcore DAZ fan. Been around these forums a long time, doncha know.

;-)

I have to raise my hand and confess to being a hardcore DAZ fan.........but I'm a hardcore Poser fan, too -- which some (not you) appear to think is an internal contradiction.  It's as if you can't like vanilla and chocolate at the same time......which is espeically odd when the two flavors go so well mixed together.  But it's still perhaps a wise precaution on your part.......I've been around these forums for a long time, too. 

As Poser isn't showing any evidence of "fading away" -- I'll say that we agree that we don't want to see such a thing happen.

shrug  As I stated above -- anything's possible.  But IMO some things are not the way to bet.

I like Carrara 6 Pro, DAZ Studio, and Poser 7 - I certainly think that Carrara has advantages over Poser in terms of lighting and rendering.  I also think that dynamic hair looks better in Carrara.  

But Poser has definite advantages in terms of creating and controlling more diverse shader materials due to the node based set up.  As a result, I think that skin still looks a little more realistic in Poser than Carrara, particularly with Bagginsbill and the Real Skin Shaders.  I also think that it's easier to set the filter value on textures in Poser than Carrara to make them look less blurry.  Poser also has python support which allows for a wider range of scripting and plugins.  

DAZ Studio seems to handle textures better than either Poser or Carrara, but with much less shader options than either of them.  The lighting and rendering in DAZ Studio are excellent.  Good skin effects are possible in DAZ Studio, but mainly due to the lighting rather than the materials.  Personally, I wish that both Carrara and DAZ Studio had node-based shaders like Poser.

Both DAZ Studio and Carrara have support for figure scaling for conformed figures whereas Poser doesn't.  This is particularly noticable for Apollo users who can apply ADS settings to the figure and then have the Epic clothing assume the same scaling and morphs upon conforming.

These are just my observations/opinions...

I agree with everything you said, PBM. Good observations!

I have to think of those who are new to 3D, though, and what they might think ...

"DAZ Studio":  Free. Cool. Does a lot of really neat things. Nice renders! Amazing! If all they want to do is pose and render, it does the job. And it's free!

Next level is usually "How do I make my own clothing"? And that is where the choice gets a little tougher. Depends on whether you want to create it for your own use, or create it to make some extra money.  So you look at the two most likely mid-range programs for the job:

-- Poser ... Cool. Has a nice material room, and dynamic hair and clothing. Wow, that dynamic clothing is really awesome because it falls so nice.

-- Carrara 3D Express, which can also use Poser content, and has fundamental primitive modeling, but you have the landscape features in there which make it tempting as the next level up. No dynamic hair modeling (though it will render), and no dynamic clothing. So let's bump Carrara up a notch or two.

-- Carrara Standard, or Carrara Pro (with pro being geared more for animators, I think, because of the network rendering). Really cool. A lot of bang for the buck. I can use all the same content as Poser, but now I have landscaping, physics, three different modelers, and all that other cool stuff. Hmmm ... I can create dynamic hair (that far surpasses Poser's), but not dynamic clothing. Not bad! The extra modeling features are more than enough tradeoff for the dynamic clothing (at least, in my mind).

BUT

If all you want to do is create stuff for your own use, in addition to using existing content, Carrara is the most logical choice. You can import your figures, and model/rig clothing in Carrara using its internal rigging methods.

However, if your goal is to create Poser content for sale or distribution, you need Poser at this point in time, for rigging and testing. But because Poser doesn't have a modeler you still need one of those. There ARE free ones, but having the ability to load a Poser figure, dial in the morphs, and model around figures all in the same program is a huge plus.

I'm trying to be as unbiased here as possible. I see the strengths and weaknesses in all the solutions ... and time can only tell what is in store in the future. But if I were coming into the 3D rendering arena now, Carrara would be the most tempting solution. There's a LOT of room to grow, and a LOT to learn.

The "Use Constraints" feature in Carrara is the same as the "Use Limits" feature in Poser. If you put "Use Limits" on in Poser, you'll find the same limitations in TY2. So part of the problem is that TY2's joint limits themselves might be too restrictive.

Now ... the solution in Carrara. There's a toggle for "Use Constraints" in the upper part of the document window. Turn it on or off before you load your scene and you should be good to go.

Since the original question in the thread asked whether Carrara might be considered a replacement for Poser, I presented an example of something in Carrara which might make it less user-friendly.   Default settings in Poser:  TY2 is fine.   Default settings in Carrara:  TY2 is arthritic.   Yes, it's easy to fix, if you know what you're looking for, but the fix is somewhere south of "intuitive" for a newcomer to 3D., which suggests that Carrara really isn't entry-level (not yet, anyway).  

Otherwise, Deecey, I agree with a lot of your points, although with rather more of  PapaBlueMarlin's.   Happy New Year, anyway, to all.

thank you all for your help and input. i am going to go with the free carrara5 on the 3d mag dvd( didnt even know i had it, lol) so i will give it a go. 
thanks again

Quote - so if the full version is in 3dworld, dose that mean i could upgrade to C6 at daz for $69.97?

No, but you can upgrade to C6 Pro using the version in 3D World (details are given on pg74 of the magazine)