Hey Connie, glad someone here knows about textures and stuff, I am all at sea with that stuff. I guess I will get to it eventually. I just think I am better learning one thing (modelling first) at a time. Then I will move on to uv mapping etc. 

@koosie, I am doing the upper windows and the circle bit of the stable. 

I also got some really nice pics of an old stable on my uncles farm over xmas for  textures etc that I will send to you connie in a little while (once I sort them all out LOL) for textures & koosie for reference pics. 

My tummy rumbles and sore throat seem to be settling, how are you going fran? I hope the doc has helped make you feel better.

Quote -
Well, for me to use the sketchup models, I'll have to remap them.
If you are using 3d paint; you can probably work with them as is; except that sketchup uses parametric primitives (and deriviatives) for modeling and doesn't quadrangulate on export. That isn't always a problem; but can be on concave openings (like an archway).
Sketchup overwrites existing UVs and does box map projection on the entire model. It might even be the entire scene, I'm not sure about that. Anyway, you get a 6 piece UV map which is basically an orthographic projection of the model from 'front', 'back', 'left', 'right', 'top', and 'bottom'. How it goes about determining the axis for those projections is a mystery to me.

Yeah, I was just looking at that. I have one of the sketchup models Koosie sent me a while ago.
Did you remap any of those models?

I was going to suggest I can take some of Koosie's finished buildings and remap them for use in 3D applications outside sketchup.  I have Sketchup pro, and can easily export OBJ's.

I was thinking I would probably take thoe OBJ's into Max, and do some UV Map scaling and welding. Sketchup puts most of the Maps outside of range too, making it okay for procedurals, but wouldn't work for bitmaps.

@conniekat8
No, I didn't remap any sketchup models.
I mailed you a row of houses. I hope they work out.

Got them!  I'll start with texturing those, and we can worry about unmapped stuff later:)

Here's one for you Koosie:
Demo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk5Lu3iziDA
Download: http://code.google.com/p/sketchyphysics/downloads/list
It's a free physics engine for SketchUp. :)

as duty calls:

this is a colour/texture card which is just to give an idea.
A1 > D1 - brick
B1 is always used for brickwork in the water - this is a special hard kind of brick to withstand the water, but it is also used for buildings.
C1 is less used than the other ones
D1 is brick that has been treated with a kind of oil/tar (not paint) to protect from rain and look good. the ornaments on these buildings are always painted white. (i made this myself and it lost too much of the texture)

E1 > E3 are pavers
E1 is not very good - too modern (concrete) - they have to be like the bricks for the houses - these were also harder than normal brick and different in colour - i will look for an image - this just shows how they often were laid.
E2 and E3 are stone cobbles which were very often used - i will look for photos of these too as these textures are not very realistic.

A2 > D2 is roofing - the red pantiles differ in hue - D2 i used for slate, but this is not a very good representation.

D4 is the texture i made for the wood along and in the water - it should actually been weathered black painte wood.

A5 > D5 are the colour of stone used - most common is D5
C5 is tiles for the sidewalks.

the colours are some of the most used ones - i know it's not a great or bright palette, but they are the colours used.

later i will be back with photos and more details.

@connie - i will send you bigger pictures and more details per email when i sorted everything out.

What is everything being rendered in for the final shots?

really, i don't have the foggiest

Koosie,
Well I wondered because of the talk of texturing. 

Is it UVMapping kind of texturing you are talking about Connie?  Or Procedural?

I'm interested in texturing generally and in a UV mapping context.

I'd really really like to get properly into UVMapping, I've done a little but I get discouraged because even when I can get a UVMap to show up in Bryce - it often looks dusty, not clear and bright.

It's one of the major reasons for me coming to University on this course - but I don't think we even get to 3d until the third year.  Plus I need to understand more about how the patterns work - I've never been very good at sewing before, but I never had problems matching up seems then like I do now.

Sigh...

I don't know what all programs conniekat8 uses to texture; but it doesn't matter.
Any kind of shader/mats generally have to be applied directly within the renderer; but the texture maps themselves are pretty much universal.
The only catch would be something like: painted displacement maps won't work in Bryce or Kerkythea; simply because they don't use displacment maps. But any program that does use displacement maps would be able to use the same displacement maps.
Same thing for any map, be it bump, diffuse, specular, transparency, whatever.

Quote - ...I'd really really like to get properly into UVMapping, I've done a little but I get discouraged because even when I can get a UVMap to show up in Bryce - it often looks dusty, not clear and bright...

Fran, how about make tombstones for around the church?
We will probably will need them, they should be pretty simple to UV map for practice, and that's the best way to learn. Start with simple stuff and work up.
Koosievantutte sent me some reference pictures for the church that have a bunch of tombstones.

I can probably do a little UV map  forum/thread based tutorial or workshop at some point, if you guys are interested.

Gah, I lost a post....

I won't do any procedurals, since they are very application specific and don't translate well. Texture maps are pretty easy to translate, as DVlenk says, they are pretty universal.

As far as renders, I think we were going to leave that up to each person, since we do have a variety of applications here. Making it all texture mapped OBJ's will leave it pretty generic/universal.

An idea struck me this morning about maybe using DAZ studio to assemble things, for several reasons:
-It's pretty simple in a way of setting up.
-It's a free application, so anyone can grab and use it.
-Individual Buildings can be saved into a library, do they can be used in places and scenes other then where we placed them.
-It allows people to mix poser content with their scenes.
-The renderer it comes with isn't half bad. (upgrades can be purchaed)
-It has really good export abilities. Comes with export presets for Bryce, Max, Maya, Cararra, I think Vue and about a dozen other applications.   (for example, Bryce exports automatically attaches all the maps where they need to go.)
-It also has collada export for rigged poser type content into max and other apps.

Anyway, this is just at the idea level, and open to discussion.

@ dv: there is one problem with tombstones: they are never in the middle of these towns, they can't be for health reasons. the ground is too wet.

Quote - @ dv: there is one problem with tombstones: they are never in the middle of these towns, they can't be for health reasons. the ground is too wet.

O.K.

Quote - ...An idea struck me this morning about maybe using DAZ studio to assemble things, for several reasons...

I think my models will look terrible once D|S smoothing hits them...I think that later Poser versions should all right, since they can control the smoothing angle; but I don't think that D|S can do that right now....Wait, let me go check.

Well, they aren't super bad, but there are some definite problems showing up. Try it out and see what you think.
I'm not entirely sure what Poser-esque model requirements are. I am sure that they are definitely different. I just don't know quite what would need to be done to the models to make them D|S compatible.

Quote - ...As far as renders, I think we were going to leave that up to each person, since we do have a variety of applications here. Making it all texture mapped OBJ's will leave it pretty generic/universal...

I think that is best. Besides procedurals (which almost never translate at all), there are shader differences too. But the image textures can be used pretty much anywhere.

They are in disused cemetaries, like... um I was going to say like Highgate Cemetary, but as Douglas Adams is buried there, who only died in 2001, it can't be as disused as all that, but it is a cemetary that was originally outside the town and is now - due to the spread of urban developement - inside the larger town... so...

I dunno, I quite liked the idea of making gravestones, I made a few once for a halloween poster (which I no longer have - the models or the poster).  I'd quite like to have another go.

After I've finished the organ... which won't be until my head stops aching - I just can't concentrate at the moment.

I've got some stone textures and there's a churchyard nearby, I could easily go look for some more textures.

*"I just don't know quite what would need to be done to the models to make them D|S compatible."

*Nothing really, just import OBJ's and assign materials. 
I wasn't going to apply any smoothing factors since they don't export anyway.
I'm not looking to make things DAZ or poser compatible necessarily, in a poser user sense, as in making them poser props.
I was thinking about using it as a tool to assemble things in for export to other apps.
DAZ can be used for things other then Poser type work ;)

Here is a pic of some tombstones from a graveyard we passed over the holidays if they are of help Fran. Koosie would have to let you know if they are historically correct for that time/place.

@ connie: I can probably do a little UV map  forum/thread based tutorial or workshop at some point, if you guys are interested.

YES PLEASE!!!! Any help there would be wonderful!! I know dv has given some instructions further back with mapping a tree trunk which was really great but any additional tute or workshop would be fabulous.:woot:

really, i am sorry, but gravestones are not possible - these towns were built along the river from scratch, so to speak and the graveyard would be outside the town wall - as our piece of town is 250x250 metres you will understand that that would certainly not include a graveyard.
only very rich people were sometimes burried in a crypt inside the church.

this really is a super piece - if you send me the 3ds file i will try to make a render with the maximum of overview. i'm so curious what it will look like.

It isn't finished yet. There are a lot of hidden polys hanging around that can be deleted. It should be about 8,000 or so.
I'll do that and finish mapping it tonight or tomorrow, then I'll send it to you.

no real hurry of course, just curiosity rearing it's ugly head! sorry

We need those sorts of things. Little things like that add a lot to renders, at least I think so.

you are right, i think.
just unpacked your church - it is fantastic - first have some coffee and breakfast and i will put it in the scene and make a render.
be back later.

@ connie: i found some good images of textures needed - will be back asap.

at this stage i fear i have to completely redraw my first made houses - block (A) because they are not quite to scale with the rest of the buildings :sad: could be the case with the warehouses too, but maybe i can place them unchanged next to jen's stable to complete block (G) which still has to be built.

this looks great, jen, but (isn't there always a 'but') now comes the tough part, be prepared!
the 'circle thingy' is called an 'oeuil de boef' (ox's eye)

i just thought about block (A) it is not completely lost - we can use the facades somewhere in the background of streets etc.

Koosie, you were busy. LOL
How is the renderer performing w/ everything loaded?
Textures and shaders will slow it down a good bit; especially certain shaders. Hopefully it's zipping right through these clay renders still...

rendering time is imo no big deal - the clayrenders with everything on it take abt. 15 minutes maximum - this partially textured one took about the same (not everything is textured)
it is not a good render but i don't know anything about lighting - i used omnilight here - but how to place other lights is a mistery to me (not the place, but how to do it) - that's also why i use a black background - the sky renders look miserable (is all my fault i'm sure)

Kerkythea?
Insert (on the menu) -> pick a type of light.
It is created at the camera location, then you can move it later; and set the strength, color, etc.

Settings -> Sun & Sky.
Set the location, date, and time of day. [Press Next]
-use the pulldown menu. 'Physical Sky' gives you a preset gradient color. Intensity is how bright overall the sky is. Turbidity is sort of like rotating the gradient, to make the dark/light areas move up and down.
-There are also options in the pulldown to insert image backgrounds. Normal photos can be used w/ 'Background xxx', the 'centered', 'tiled', and 'fit' are just how the image is shown.
-'Spherical Sky' and 'Hemispherical Sky' is for panoramically transformed photos, you can use .jpgs, .bmp, and so on for that; and you can also use .hdr images too (HDRI, radiance file, made from assembling multiple exposures). When FG (Final Gathering) is activated, then the sky color/image will impart a tint onto the scene; depending on sky's intensity and turbidity. .HDR can be overwhelming, and there aren't any real controls for it in Kerkythea. If the radiance file has been properly tone mapped, then it is all right.

Settings -> Scene -> Global Settings
Ambient Lighting - a value that tells the renderer what percentage of material ambience to calculate. Probably not a good idea to use this until come to terms with the standard lighting.
Volume Lighting - When activated, calculates volumetric refraction and scattering through volumes (like light through fog); controlled by the global fog settings below.
Global Fog:
 - Emmitance - causes the fog to generate illumination.
 - Absorption - How much illumination the fog absorbs. It is z-depth buffered (that means that areas are thicker than others and absorb more light). This setting also determines density of the shadows cast by the fog.
 - Scatter - The color of scattered light
 - Scatter Density - How much light gets scatter vs. how much simply passes through.
Scatter takes very long time to render. Absoprtion is not too bad. Emmitance is not much time.

Render -> Setup -> Global Illumination

• Photons are for bouncing luminosity around the scene. 'Shooting Depth' is how many times the photon will bounce before expiring (It also becomes weaker with each bounce). Use the 'specularities' check box when you want the photons to form specular phenomenons. 'Mesh detail' makes the light bounces coincide with the mesh more accurately. '1' should be sufficient.
• Caustics is refracted and reflected light patterns (like the nephroid patterns you see around water from time to time, or light shining though glass). Rather render expensive, "pseudo-caustics" is fake ones that can added as wanted. 'Photon mapped caustics' are optical, and only happen under the optically correct circumstances. "Density' is how many 'rays' are calculated, higher numbers is better (but takes longer to render).
• Final Gathering bounces color. i.e. White light hitting a red wall will be tinted with red when it bounces. It can also make surfaces self illuminating, or actually emit luminosity. 'Rays' is number of calculations. 'Accuracy' is, well, accuracy ;). 'Gathering Depth' is how many times color will be imparted during a light bounce. 'Trace Depth' is number of bounces + number of refractions. The check boxes are which optical phenom. that the FG should account for in the render.
  'Moderate' GI setting in Kerkythea are pretty good; except I would use 'many' photons.
  Whatever you do, don't set FG accuracy to '0.0 - Perfect'...:scared:

Looking awesome guys!
I started making a palletes of various textures to use here. My latest addition to texture making software - Filter Forge can create some neat brick patterns, to mimick what I saw in research pictures!  Screensots to follow :)
Between Filter Forge and Genetica, the number and variations of textures we can make are mindboggling!!!

I'll make an indexed pallete of various textures, perhaps as a pdf, and send it to you guys, then we can all participate in choosing waht to put where, if you guys want!

I'm rendering a number of variations in one color because one I plug them in deep paint, HSV sliders let me chenge coloring on the fly. We're not locked into the color you are seeing, in case you want something different.

If you want to get really fancy, all theese textures come with bump maps, and if you want, I can gove you normal maps too - if your software handles them. (I'd recommend those for high detailed closeups only)

Textures can be rendered out in any size we want, we're not limited to 512 squares, nor re we limited to how many 'bricks per square'

especially those planks look great for the weathered wood in the water, connie, i presume they can come with those nails in places where we need them.
in the meantime i got quite some pavement stone images which show what they look like in real life - still collecting images in which the colours used for painting can be clearly seen - i will send them to you, probably in the morning.
spent all day puting the scene together, change the warehouses to fit where they are now and got images for the houses opposite the church.

The planks come with a set pattern of nails, but with varied spacing. They can come without nails too, and I can hand place them where I need them.
I'll see if I can make a filter with offset plank pattern too. May be a bit over my head to make the tweak, but I'll ask for a bit of help in Filter Forge forums. There's people there whom know a ton more, and are most helpful :)

Yes yes, send me the sample images whenever you have them :) (no huge hurry though)

Can't wait to see the models with good textures on them.:thumbupboth:

I think the guys that laid those bricks stole the booze you and Fran were going to swill down before they started working. :m_bouncy: