I mentioned this idea in the C&D forum and it was suggested that I propose it to the admins: As it currently stands, the "top 20" is really only a measure of how attractive the thumbnails are, because if you click on a thumbnail and then decide that the picture wasn't worth it, the click already has registered and you can't take it back. Thus, what's in the top 20 anything has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of what you see. Would it be possible to add, perhaps to the "ratings" option when viewing a pic, a spot to vote the pic into the top 20 for that category? If that were done, the top 20 might actually mean something, rather than just being a measure of how attractive the thumbnail is to people cruising the gallery. Please consider the possibility.

What if ... rather than basing the Hot 20 on recent thumbnail clicks, it was based on recent image ratings, using the existing rating system? Something like, the best rated images for the last 30 days or so. Then, clicks are out of the picture.

But not everyone allows rating on their images, so then you exempt people who disallow rating.

Good point TJ. I'm not in favor of putting a second rating on images, so that only leaves click-thrus.

oh just ignore me , if thats what they want:-) Cause on second thought if you dont allow ratings, theres probably not much interest in top 20 anyway , maybe... I dunno :-)

{Cause on second thought if you dont allow ratings, theres probably not much interest in top 20 anyway ,} That is an excellent point. Russell (etc.), why not put a poll asking about this on the front page? See what the members (think that they) want on this subject and go from there?

I understand your point and I realize that you guys already have a lot of programming and other stuff to over-fill your time, but a lot of people seem to think the top 20 means something OTHER than having an appealing thumbnail, which in reality, it just doesn't. Hence a lot of arguments & discussions in C&D and elsewhere. It seems to me that if the top 20 was based on what you now see in the "best rankings" choice in the galleries it would be the most valid. Maybe, if that would be too much time & trouble, at the top of each Top 20 Gallery there should be a statement making it clear to all that the only thing that gets you in there is the attraction generated by the thumbnail, not the quality of the image. This might be the simplest way to go and still be honest about what's really happening.

rcook: Basically I was agreeing with your first response up above (#2), I just kinda got sidetracked with dealing with someone here in "reality" (NOT my favorite place these days) and then mixed up some additional thoughts into what I was saying. I agree, if you based it on the current ratings system it would be related to what's in the picture, and as TJ said in his last post up there, if they don't turn on ratings, the top 20 is probably a moot point for them anyway. *** Excuse the rambling, it's fried day and my brain is kinda fried after this long week of BS. (I have come to the conclusion that god loves Assholes, because he made so MANY of them [comment relates to my week here, NOT to you]).

Well, maybe a poll is the best solution then. I'll try to think up a good way of presenting the options. Thanks for the feedback folks.

heyas; eh, it aint a bad idea. of course, SOME people don't give a flying fajita about the hot 20, so we can continue to leave off ratings. ;) and then there's always the 'but EVERYbody gives EVERYthing a 10'! contingency. ::

I know I don't allow ratings because in my own personal opinion, ratings are overated. You either get a 10 or you get some obscure sub number that really doesn't mean a lot. The other option for a top 20 could be based on comments rather than rankings. Rather than base it on the number of rankings, maybe the option of comments would start prompting people to actually leave comments on images they view? I am not really sure why some people are so obsessed with the top 20. It has always been nicer for me (personally) to view the galleries with the what's new option. That way I hopefully don't miss out on seeing anything interesting. :) Just a suggestion.

Actually based on the number of comments would indicate an interest in the render more than a click through.. as they actually took the time to leave a comment whether good or bad.... it did the job of art.. ratings are indeed over rated, 8 ) Cheers

well as a 'veiwer' I agree with SR I always go with the 'what's new' option. As an 'artist' (I use that term loosely) I tend to gauge whether my pieces are good or not by the feedback rather than ratings or hits ... (maybe instead of this rambling I could have just said 'what SR said') I've never rated anything .. I'm not an artist I don't have any arts training I just 'know what I like' so who am I to say something is a 10 or 0? although it never fails to cause hysterical laughter whenever I see these people brag about being in the top 20 - please don't change it too much lol

There is ofcourse one other really good option. Why not simply abolish the top 20 as it seems to bring so much hardship and disconcerted anguish upon this site. I have been in the top 20 a number of times. I have even had the number one spot a few of these times. It has neither swelled my head nor really had an impact on me. Reason being that it really doesn't bear water in comparison to the comments that are left on my images. So it's removal really wouldn't have any devastation on me either. (if that makes any sense) Just another thought for consideration.

The reason some of us don't put ratings is because you get the occassional troll that up and puts a 2 or a 3 on a pic for no reason. No comments just a bum rating. Basing the Top 20 on the ratings would also cause bad feelings when this sort of thing occurs. Wizz has one good idea (the comments) and Rose's idea of doing away with it is another. Allen9 has a very good point about the thumbs, there have been pics make it to the Top 20 with a thumb that has absolutely nothing to do with the pic.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/polls.ez

I still believe that if we based our galleries on new fresh ideas or the actual creativity factors of the "artists" posting instead of the individual programs themselves, thereby accentuating the "artists" rather than what the "program" can do we might get around all this titillation factor. I don't know HOW it could be done, but it would be great if we had a top 20 or top 40 that highlighted the best of ALL categories all the time in much the same fashion. Then it would not be so "poser" directed and also not so promiscuous either, because not all programs are mainly "people" programs. As well, MOST artists use MORE than just one program as a tool anyways, so this here that we have now is somewhat innacurate a lot of times as just "poser" or just "bryce" etc. We usually base our posting categories on "mostly" of whatever we used or where we "feel" we may have the most impact. An overall "best" would illimate all this and be much more fair and true and would result in variety.

Somwetimes I render people in Poser and put them on a Bryce background.

I hate the ratings idea because as someone said there is a 10 on everything except some weird other number. To be honest I have only rated 2 pieces a 10 here and that is why I don't rate anymore because if I don't rate it a 10 I am somehow evil. To me a 10 is totally perfect. Sorry, most stuff that gets a 10 here isn't totally perfect. So to sum up. Rating bad.

I think basing it on the AVERAGE rating might not be too bad - especially if they can add in a feature to ignore, say the one highest and one lowest rating for this value or some such.

once Renderotica gets online again... then "Tits won't Equal Hits" They will have somewhere else to go...:)

Ditto. And please let Renderotica use Renderosity's software, like they did at first, then it will be easier for people to find their way round their site. "Tits equalling hits" was often so even while Renderotica was alive in its original form. I still say we need a separate class for "best non-sexy", to avoid handicapping those who have no skill or aptitude in making sexy stuff.

Moved to C&D

{those who have no skill or aptitude in making sexy stuff. } Uh, you left out "desire or inclination". Just because some people would rather do Sci-Fi or landscapes, etc. doesn't mean they don't have the "skill or aptitude" for doing the "sexy stuff". It might just mean they don't want to.

I would like to see a class for Art... where nudity is used for the Art it expresses and not just for the pornography in it... I enjoy erotic ART very much... and appreciate the skill and aptitude of those that create it.... But I very much agree that a rating based on comments is the best way. If someone takes the time to comment then it has more meaning than just clicking on a thumnail to see what the image really looks like.... IMHO :)

I think the top 20 serves a purpose.. for example I might have been months seeing the beautiful work of Gevidal had it not been for it.. but if you look at Gevidal's work you would see based on comments he would have still been there.. so I don't agree with dropping it but base it on the comments on actual images not thumbnails.. also maybe it is time for Renderosity to open an Erotic gallery 2nd password maybe to get ...? Since it looks like it will be a very long time before it re-opens.. might make good business sense..?

to open an Erotic gallery And perhaps also an erotica freestuff. If that doesn't make Renderosity liable to losing its site or whatever because of people and officialdom accusing it of becoming a porn haven. Why and how exactly did Renderotica have to change its software and then lose its site? Is there an archive of its models and messages anywhere?

I'm sorry, but may I interject here? I say this here with uptmost respect here meaning this not in a bad way to whom I say this or about whom I say it, but I do STRESS here, a lot of folks that are posting pin up work and such here have "possibly" never, and probably will never post at any Renderotica. Please don't blame all the old Renderotica artists for any form of provacative works you may see here. I'm certain some folks have filtered into here from there, fact is I am certain, but if you look at the mainstream pin up genre of works here, MANY of them have resided here at Renderosity and are quite well known and respected here and a good many of them never set foot into Renderotica unless they did so under another handle. Many fine artists and hobbyists enjoy erotic art and do not need to make excuses for this perfectly normal habitual among artists throughout the ages. If some of you folks actually frequented Renderotica when it was around you may have realized that what you say is quite presumptious because although there were MANY very wonderful and beautifully rendered erotic works there, but there were also some things that may have made your stomach turn. Each to their own tastes, Renderotica did have its own clientele and for catering to many who's work may well have been a bit extreme or out of the fashionable norm, Renderotica should be commended. These online forums serve their own purpose both for those that run them themselves and for the artists they cater to, you cannot compare them just cause the software was similar or just cause the topic here is "slightly" similar to something found more at one than on the other. Some of you may not enjoy erotic art for whatever reason, I can respect that, but please don't speak for us all cause some artists, many, do enjoy it even though they may never have posted at both places at all. Some of us may not like food art or close up's of poser noses with nostrils that glare unaturally but we put up with this too and don't suggest those artists need to find another place to post their works or that they are usually not regulars here. That is just wrong. Erotic art is a FACT of art and a normal mainstream in the form of education in art schooling and learning from the "masters" time and time again. Most artists are "open", a few seem pent on this fantasy that erotica is anything but art...I beg to differ here. If anything it is one of the most "prominent forms" of art throughout time, and even if you sweep this under one side of the rug somehow it will work itself out the other side of the rug time and time again; you won't make it just "go away" ;-)

Well said Peter.

Lot of good points made here, and I agree with most of them. The reason I think the Hot 20 is POINTLESS is that it has NOTHING to do with the content of the picture. It's only a gauge of how enticing the Thumbnail is - Period!! If you click on something that has what appears to be an interesting thumnbnail and then look at the picture and you decide you don't like it at all - the click still counted toward a Hot 20 rating REGARDLESS of what you thought of the picture, and there is no way to cancel it. It should either be based on ratings or comments or a click-box next to the comment option that would allow you to VOTE for it for the Top 20, OR the gallery should, for the sake of HONESTY, be labeled: "TOP 20 THUMBNAILS"

{It's only a gauge of how enticing the Thumbnail is - Period!!} It measures THREE things: 1) Effectiveness of the thumbnail in getting attention 2) Effectiveness of the TITLE at getting attention, and 3) Popularity of the artist in question It can also showcase how controversy affects #3 above...