It seems I'm destined to just be shouted down by the cheerleading team, common sense be damned.  I guess you can just refuse to follow the thread if you really want to, I can't make you ^_^

Quote - Ok, Connie, for clarification, it's targetted towards "higher then consumer- lower end commercial use". I did even state earlier that IMHO it was targetted at lower end commercial use.. and that's still quite a far cry higher then "joe consumer" wants to pay for a new playtoy.

There are a lot of levels of commercial use, and I can see a use for poser pro at some levels... maybe not at YOUR level, but at other commercial application user's levels.

Gotcha!   When you first mentioned high end.. I went for high end point of view... LOL.  I'm sort of the bottom of the pile on the high end 3D side too.

For mid-range production, which I do out of the house as a side work for my little company, Poser Pro may have some merits. So far, not enough to get me really interested in it. For production tools I tend not to jump onthe newest thing out there, because any new software release needs a bug ironing out period, and when you;re using it for production, a small business outfit can be especially voulnerable to halts in production.

?

OK -- we'll all agree to 'follow the thread' -- whatever green fields the thread happens to wander off into.

And who's cheerleading?  It ain't me.  Unless if admitting to at least the bare possibility that Poser Pro might (might) turn out to be better than some are expecting constitutes "cheerleading".

shrug  There's always the chance that Poser Pro could turn out to be a disappointment -- even a big disappointment.  But I'm not among those who regard disaster for Poser just around the corner as an absolute certainty.

I prefer to look forward to the possibility that I might even like it (Poser Pro).  Until it's actively demonstrated to be otherwise: I'll go with that possibility.  I'll deal with the negatives when they actually occur.

Admittedly, it's easy to select the negatives in advance.  It's a favorite hobby for many.  Perhaps it's a form of "negative cheerleading", or "anti-cheerleading".

I won't decide how much I think Poser Pro is worth until after it is released.
I will believe a pre release feature list when hell freezes over.
If it seems like a good expenditure, then I'll buy it. If not, not.

Quote - I won't decide how much I think Poser Pro is worth until after it is released.
I will believe a pre release feature list when hell freezes over.
If it seems like a good expenditure, then I'll buy it. If not, not.

BRAVO!

I'm not really cheerleading either.. if poser pro can render faster and speed up my workflow doing ad renders, that alone might easly be worth the extra cash to me. if it doesn't well, then since I really don't have a burning desire to integrate with the high end apps listed, then there isn't much benefit to me personally.

My workflow is creation in lightwave, and then rendering in either poser or vue6I if I need organic background or skys.. and what I have already does that for me, and for what I choose to create.

I've spent DAYS sometimes doing promo renders for my products, and if I can cut that rendering time in half, poser pro would definitly be worthwhile as a time saver.

Since I can also include animated popups in my products at daz, using the network rendering might even become a useful frequently used feature.

Those really are my "high interest" features in poser pro.. I'd have to look at the rest of them to see what really would be useful to me personally.

And if I could save 3 or 4 days a month, that would give me more playtime, and more product developement time, so Poser pro would definitely be a fwelcome addition.

Quote - > Quote - Ok, since we really don't know what poser is going to do in the future let me put it this way. if these new features appear in Poser 8 then Poser Pro is not Poser 7 Pro, it is Poser 7.5 Pro.

If these features do not appear in Poser 8 (and currently there is no reason to belive they will) then this is a parallell development of Poser like Vue 6 Esprit vs Vue 6 Infinate.

Helloooooo, the feature list for upcoming Poser Pro has already been published!  We know exactly what it's going to do in the future.
http://graphics.smithmicro.com/filemanager/startdownload/1916/PoserPro_Comparison_Chart.pdf

But we dont know what will be in Poser 8 I don't think i'm clearly communicating my point, let me try again.

I stand by my point. Poser 7 Pro is not an "update", it is Poser 7 with some added features.

I agree with your point "[you] can certainly expect better features" in the sence that Having these features will be better than not having them. However, we have no reason to believe that any of these features will be included in Poser 8 so Poser 7 Pro is not and "update" of Poser 7 (non-pro) even if it is an improvement in capabilities over Poser 7 (non-pro).

I think Tyger Purr has hit it on the head very clearly.

Poser Pro is 7 Plus additional features for advanced users.

Poser 8... well we have no idea at ALL when or even IF there will be a poser 8, so that would be pure speculation.

I'd think Poser 8 would a have enhancements to Poser 7, and a "Poser 8 Pro" would include it's enhancements, and the additional ones in "Poser Pro" (7)

Quote - I won't decide how much I think Poser Pro is worth until after it is released.

That's pretty much what I do with any software... even upgrades.

Take Hexagon for example, Release 2.2 and it's randomly reordering of vertices was no problem for me, since I waited to upgrade. Once I saw what was at hand, I was able to decide I'm better off skipping that particular upgrade.  (Unlike for most people, my hexagon 2.1 runs very stable)

No Vista, No Autocad 2008, no 3D Studio 2008, no Poser 7...
Every now and then I do upgrade sooner, when there's a good reason to do so - like when Daz 1.8 made Collada work, and didn't break anything else in the process - it was worth upgrading.

So, I'll wait and see.

for those of you considering buying poser pro: consider the following

Poser pro will use a collada exporter and have a "special version" of quidam to get external meshes rigged and into poser.

Collada is not as well supported export as FBX

I NEVER use poser to render if I can help it.
FBX is available as a plugin for Daz Studio (which is better than poser for the core activity of actually posing) This will transfer Morph targets, animation paths, Bones and weight maps from DS into the application of choice. It costs $100 but it can  save hours of work. I import the poser mesh with rig, and re-jig the rig (sorry for the onomatopoeia) to add controls in max.
I can then pose with a superior posing set
Daz studio is a lot faster than poser in everthing (xpt saving a file) and the obj export actually has absolute referencing for the texture maps....

So why would you EVER get poser pro?
Raj

Visit the Daz Studio forum and look at all the posts on plug ins including exporters that have issues and no solution in sight.

And if I were a business I sure as well wouldn't rely delivering product based on freeware with buggy exporters. Collada looks to be the up and coming transportable format, and the collada plugin is busted in DS.. has been for many months now, and not a peep on when/if it'll ever be fixed.

Ask people about the hexagon 2.2 update, and issues with it. You can;t base your business on IF someone MIGHT fix a pligin for software.. freeware or not.

Where's 64 bit rendering? Where's network rendering support? better yet, Where's the fix for scaling issues in DS that have existed unfixed for 2.5 YEARS now?

DS is a great way to enter the 3d world, but it's NOT yet yet ready for professional use.

who you calling a cheerleader :-P

Quote - Visit the Daz Studio forum and look at all the posts on plug ins including exporters that have issues and no solution in sight.

Where's 64 bit rendering? Where's network rendering support? better yet, Where's the fix for scaling issues in DS that have existed unfixed for 2.5 YEARS now?

DS I only use only as a plugin for max. I dont render on it, and people with high end software wont want to render on it. so the "64 bit" rendering isn't an issue all. I havent noticed a scale problem as I have worked out the scale differential pretty accuratley.
Sure DS has its problems, what free program doesnt. Poser has its problems and I own it, just don't use it much.  The interface is really the worst part of the program. I have customized DS to have the same keyboard shortcuts as max and maya the layout is prettty well the same. you cant do that with poser, and I doubt you could with poser pro.
Poser fusion was a completely lame program (which I also now have) because it was based on the body studio plugin which was the peak of all lameness. What a waste of money...

I'm not sure where you are getting you information from but the Big 3 Maya, XSI, Max have invested more time and money in FBX. Sure collada is a nice open source exporting format and has a lot of potential, but its not there yet.

Raj

Quote -
I'm not sure where you are getting you information from but the Big 3 Maya, XSI, Max have invested more time and money in FBX. Sure collada is a nice open source exporting format and has a lot of potential, but its not there yet.

not knowing much about either i went and looked them up

I found FBX is an open format made by Autodesk (makers of Maya and Max) and Collada is an open format (based on XML) originally started by Sony.

What i found particularly interesting is that in the list of supporting programs in both formats appear "the big three" and DAZ.

Quote - And if I were a business I sure as well wouldn't rely delivering product based on freeware with buggy exporters. Collada looks to be the up and coming transportable format, and the collada plugin is busted in DS.. has been for many months now, and not a peep on when/if it'll ever be fixed.

I think D|S 1.8, the latest version, has collada fixed.... cuz, I've been using it for a week now, with no issues.

 If poser had

-a way to do motion capture with a special USB or whatever Motion capture suit
-Full renders at big size frame took seconds. Full animation in full render mode, say 1000 frames took less than a minute. 

If that cost 400 or even 450 i would definitely buy it

forget the $30,000 for the mocap studio

Yes waiting would seem to be a good idea.
Thanks all for your thoughts

2/19/08

***"Subject: How much would you pay for a good Poser?"

I already paid for a good, fast, stable, featureful Poser 7. It just hasn't arrived yet. Not that the Poser team didn't make a good stab at the project, but there is a huge amount of work to accomplish, a long list of features requested over the last several versions, and a number of bugs to fix. I await what I paid for.

On another point, isn't this a Poser Forum? I ask because sometimes it is hard to tell. I thought there were forums for Vue, Maya, Daz Studio, and others. Why does every topic turn into a "get rid of Poser and use [insert favorite sofware here]" discussion? Can't software package evangelists rave about their favorite software in the forums dedicated to that software? Does every one who doesn't use Poser feel obligated to haunt forums that obviously do not offer information about the software that they do use? Are these software cultists flirting with conversion back to Poserism?

Smith Micro has the resources to invest in Poser to advance the package along the lines that many of the users want. Seeing that the purchase of E-F America was in the works for a while, Poser Pro may be SM's idea anyway. It remains to be seen if SM will feel that the Poser line is worth the investment. Getting a service release to address known bugs and issues would do a lot to convince me and everyone that SM is serious about developing Poser further.

LMK

Quote -  If poser had
-Full renders at big size frame took seconds. Full animation in full render mode, say 1000 frames took less than a minute. 

I don't think even high end apps are capable of stuff like that. Maybe on a supercomputer.

Quote - On another point, isn't this a Poser Forum? I ask because sometimes it is hard to tell. I thought there were forums for Vue, Maya, Daz Studio, and others.

Because we started talking about a Poser version which is supposedly going to be aimed at mid to higher end audience, and competing with some of those applications.

Quote - Why does every topic turn into a "get rid of Poser and use [insert favorite sofware here]" discussion?

Because a number of people moan and complain about how Poser isn't working well enough, and wishing for features found in higher end applications?
It's pretty simple, If an application doesn't fit someone's bill, use something else that fits better. Trying to get Poser to change in a direction some people wish is a lot like a tail trying to wag the dog. 

2/19/08

*"Because we started talking about a Poser version which is supposedly going to be aimed at mid to higher end audience, and competing with some of those applications."

Hmm, If some one NEEDS the power of Maya, 3DS Max, or another high-end and expensive program, I don't think Poser CAN compete (maybe the Poser team should not even try to compete directly). These high-end programs are in a constant state of development. As Poser or other low -end applications add new features, the higher-end apps add features also. It is a moving target.

What Poser can do is add compatability and data transportablility so that Poser can be part of the work flow for people who are going to use the latest and most expensive software packages.

*"Trying to get Poser to change in a direction some people wish is a lot like a tail trying to wag the dog."

I agree. This is a point I have made myself. Also, I don't mind knowing what other programs can do, in case I become rich, and have all the time in the world, but the constant Poser bashing by folks who don't have or use Poser, don't want it, and are never going to buy it, contributes very little to the Poser Forum community. I may moan and complain about Poser from time to time, but I own and use it, and I will probably buy the next version if and when it becomes available (when?).

LMK

take it from me, poser pro wont be much different from the poser you have right now. I've been swapping messages about poser pro for a while now. Poser pro with be a stop gap (bandaid) measure to get some revenue for the next big push for. Sure they plan to improve poser and perhaps even a radical shift. But I think poser pro is dead in the water as far as feature set goes. There are better things out there already that are considerably cheaper - just have less marketing clout and are supposedly more buggy - though I can make poser crash every time using the library system (and I have reported the bug). The ONLY thing poser has going for it (if you have a high end app already) above Daz studio is Python support - I just wish they had implemented it better.
Raj

I haven't read all this, and I'm sure it's been pointed out already, but....
Poser 7 is 250  US dollars. Poser "Pro" is going to be, what - $399?
I think that about sums up the argument regarding "is it worth it?"

But everybody always figures they should get more than they do...

On a slightly related note, do any of you have any idea how many threads I've read from people throwing fits regarding Blender's interface? Blender is completely free, BTW, and highly capable. Just weird.

IMO, the question of "how much would you pay for..." is a moot point. I'd be willing to pay as much as they wanted, provided it actually delivered, and I felt I needed the features. If they wanted 3 grand for it, I'd pay it, but it better do everything they say it will, short of serve me breakfast in bed for that kind of money.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I feel I got what I expected with Poser 7. You can fee free to interpret that however you like...

Quote - take it from me, poser pro wont be much different from the poser you have right now. I've been swapping messages about poser pro for a while now. Poser pro with be a stop gap (bandaid) measure to get some revenue for the next big push for. Sure they plan to improve poser and perhaps even a radical shift. But I think poser pro is dead in the water as far as feature set goes.

You seem to be claiming to be privy to some hot inside corporate information.  I'm always highly suspicious of such (unattributed / undocumented) forum-posted claims.  I'm not saying that it's not true -- just that I won't accept it as being true if & until I see such things for myself......or unless if we are offered solid, substantiated proof that SM is only interested in putting out a "bandaid" in an effort to haul in some quick cash.  Until the time when such solid, substantial PROOF of these claims is offered to us (and not just a "trust me"-- because I really know the inside scoop!") -- all such assertions in regards to SM's internal corporate planning & motivations amount to nothing more than mere forum rumor-mongering.

Quote - You seem to be claiming to be privy to some hot inside corporate information.

Or maybe he looked at the published feature list.

Quote - > Quote - You seem to be claiming to be privy to some hot inside corporate information.

Or maybe he looked at the published feature list.

He goes quite a bit beyond the particulars of the published feature list.  When anyone asserts that the "plan" is to put out a "bandaid" in order to garner some "quick cash"......that's not talking about feature lists.  It's making claims about internal corporate motivations.  And no one can know of such "facts" without having a line on the inside workings of SM.

Is it just me or does it seem kind of odd that Smith Micro would be buying Poser? Considering they seem to specialize in wireless communications technology and all.

I bet they unload Poser by the third quarter of 2010 at the latest. Just a feeling. They don't seem like Poser People.
Hell, they mentioned  the 30,000+ prefab models available from Content Paradise in their little promo, but failed to mention DAZ and the enormous success of the Mil People. Obviously they're in competition, and maybe they're not legally allowed to mention, say Vicki, but it doesn't seem to be smart advertising to use the CP stuff as your sole credentials. I'd venture to say if Poser suddenly couldn't import DAZ models, or went to a proprietary format (.pz8?, anyone?) , more than half the user base would disappear overnight, never to look back.

Why is E-frontier unloading Poser anyway? Why did this seemingly un-poserlike company give them six million for it?
Things might get interesting in the Poserverse again. 

from:
C G SM Poser technical Support:

"but this iteration of Poser Pro will stick pretty closely to the Poser 7 look and feel (flaws and all.) It's good to hear from people who are actually using Poser 'out in the field' though, so we'll know what areas to concentrate on!"

there is more to conversation but that remains private.
So Mr Xenophonz, next time you feel the need to blatantly accuse me of being a rumour monger or a liar just keep your trap shut.
Now you can choose not believe me: and I can choose not to listen to you.

I don't speak ill of SM, its just they got handed a bit of a lemon from EF and they are making the best of things. They knew that the bodystudio plugin (poser fusion) was very much a lemon product, and have abandoned that line of development (which shows how smart they are). I think poser is in better hands now, and I don't want to see it die. But SM have a tough battle ahead of them convincing people to buy.

And sure: if I could make my money back from the additional value of poser pro and it made my life easier - I would spend $20,$200,$2000,$20000. I managed to do it with both Poser and 3ds Max. Its still a hobby, but one that pays its way.
Raj

I'm still trying to learn Poser 7 and need to buy one of the vickis... I don't even want to think about paying anything extra for something that should have been done in the first place.

BTW, I've gotten poser to be a little more stable when I run msconfing, do a selective start up and uncheck the startup items, then click services and hide all the microsoft services before hitting the disable all button.  It works for me in the sense that at least I'm not crashing all the time trying to work with (and learn how to use) dynamic hair.

Quote - dynamic hair.

there in lies the problem.
I've never gotten that to work...
starting with p4 and a japanese plugin till today.
I've worked with it, it just don't collide accuratley or grow properly. So it works as well as it should according to the manual - its just that the benchmark was set so low.
Raj

Yeah, I've found it to be a pain in the rear.  It took me roughly two days (12 hours or so) to do the hair style in my second render and at that point, I was at the point where saying I can live with this seemed reasonable.

I'm ready for a professional level poser application.  I'd pay $499.00 easily.

Quote - from:
C G SM Poser technical Support:
"but this iteration of Poser Pro will stick pretty closely to the Poser 7 look and feel (flaws and all.) It's good to hear from people who are actually using Poser 'out in the field' though, so we'll know what areas to concentrate on!"

there is more to conversation but that remains private.
So Mr Xenophonz, next time you feel the need to blatantly accuse me of being a rumour monger or a liar just keep your trap shut.
Now you can choose not believe me: and I can choose not to listen to you.

Show me where I accused you of "being a liar", and I'll buy into what you are saying here.  I most definitely did not make such an accusation -- I asked for proof from you to back up your assertion that the intent was to throw something out there to grab some quick cash.  You still haven't established that as being a fact.  The quote that you've given sounds like a snippet from a standard customer support e-mail message.  It certainly doesn't speak to a corporate intent, devious or otherwise.  Frankly, I'd be surprised if Poser Pro did not stick fairly closely to P7's current interface (flaws and all).  As much as some people holler about it's drawbacks -- just wait for the hollering that would follow if the interface were to be radically changed into something unfamiliar to the user base overnight.

When you choose to offer actual, solid, proof that it's SM's corporate intent to essentially just slap something together & shove it out the door for the purpose of obtaining some quick cash, then I'll choose to listen to you.  Until then: it remains nothing more than a rumor.

Quote - I don't speak ill of SM, its just they got handed a bit of a lemon from EF and they are making the best of things. They knew that the bodystudio plugin (poser fusion) was very much a lemon product, and have abandoned that line of development (which shows how smart they are). I think poser is in better hands now, and I don't want to see it die. But SM have a tough battle ahead of them convincing people to buy.

As for the Body Studio issues -- that part we have no argument over.  If SM is as smart as you say that they are -- then we can expect to look forward to good things, eh?

Since people will gripe either way, why not change the Poser interface in the interest of functionality? Answer: It would take time and money. The question of whether the "pros" will put up with a dated toy interface remains unanswered.

Perhaps a way to keep the price down would be to have a modular approach to any new version of Poser, like C4D does.
A base program, and modules for Hair, Face Room, etc.
Add on only what you need. A Material Room is essential IMO, but
I never use the Hair Room, or SetUp Room or Face Room, but love the Cloth Room.
Seem I'm paying for things I never use or want to.

I can imagine what the sales for the Poser Face module would be like. Why waste the cardboard for the product box?

Quote - Since people will gripe either way, why not change the Poser interface in the interest of functionality? Answer: It would take time and money. The question of whether the "pros" will put up with a dated toy interface remains unanswered.

While I certainly agree that Poser's interface needs changing -- I believe that it's best if that change is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.

It's not a good idea for a company to radically alter a product -- any product -- essentially overnight.  Doing so tends to upset the existing user base greatly, and without winning over new converts in the process.  Admittedly, this isn't always true -- but it is true often enough to be a risky gamble to try it.

Remember New Coke?

((OT - But I've heard from people who've been around long enough that Coke tasted better back in the 1950's -- although one man (an engineering professor of mine) was even-handed enough to say that he wasn't sure if the better taste back then might not have had more to do with his own younger tasting capabilities than it did with an actual change in the flavor of the soft drink.))

The "New Coke" wasn't a functional improvement. It was a new taste replacing the most popular soft drink in human history. Poser's interface is clunky to the point of madness when you delve into advanced features, such as rigging. One selling point for Poser Pro would be if the 64 bit version didn't have that annoying lag every time you attempt to turn a dial or move an element of the configuration.

New Coke or Poser -- a company is running a big risk if they change their product too radically, too quickly.  The principle is all one for any type of product -- from shoes to automobiles.  Doing so might pay off (and occasionally does) -- but it's still a huge gamble.

With the inherent volatility of the Poser user base -- at least the user base that typically inhabits the forums -- IMO it would be very unwise to change the interface, top-to-bottom, in one version of the software.

Quote - Poser's interface is clunky to the point of madness when you delve into advanced features, such as rigging.

I agree with you there.  Unfortunately, I could say the same about a number of programs that I use.  Not all of them 3D programs.

But Poser makes certain advanced tasks much more difficult than those tasks have to be.  While other tasks aren't handled well, and rarely get used.  Such as the Face Room.

Quote - One selling point for Poser Pro would be if the 64 bit version didn't have that annoying lag every time you attempt to turn a dial or move an element of the configuration.

We agree.

I kind of like the face room after working with it for a while (since it is part of the program) and getting a better understanding of it's quirks. i practice making faces of any good image, getting a side view is tough somtimes, i can. They are not always mirror image of the photo but it makes a different character that many cannot pick out the base figure i used

2/20/08

XENOPHONZ:

New Coke was a marketing ploy. When the Coca-Cola company returned to "Classic Coke" they did not actually return to the old formula. The new "Classic Coke" used corn syrup instead of sugar, and tasted different. The public was distracted from noticing this by the amount of time they couldn't get a "Classic Coke" (until it was "reintroduced") and by the fact that they seemed to get what they demanded (instead of what they actually wanted). Cokes imported from Mexico (in glass bottles) still use sugar. Try one out sometime and taste the difference.

Incidentally, SM at CP has just put Passport Memeberships on sale a penny under $50 (USA), and Poser 6 on sale for under $3 (use with the passport). For under $53 (USA) one can get Poser 6, and upgrade to Poser 7 for a reduced amount. This is a little different, but not unlike the deals that EF gave just before announcing Poser 7. Could this be the kick-off for Poser Pro? DAZ has lately introduced new figures and new D|S versions at about the time that Poser brings out a new version.

LMK

Quote - 2/20/08

XENOPHONZ:

New Coke was a marketing ploy. When the Coca-Cola company returned to "Classic Coke" they did not actually return to the old formula. The new "Classic Coke" used corn syrup instead of sugar, and tasted different. The public was distracted from noticing this by the amount of time they couldn't get a "Classic Coke" (until it was "reintroduced") and by the fact that they seemed to get what they demanded (instead of what they actually wanted). Cokes imported from Mexico (in glass bottles) still use sugar. Try one out sometime and taste the difference.

I rarely drink carbonated drinks anymore, so it's unlikely that I'll be trying one out any time soon - from Mexico or elsewhere.  I used to live off of soft drinks back in my younger days.  Heh -- I'd jog for 10 miles and then wrap it up by drinking a Mountain Dew. 

As far as the history of the (old) New Coke goes -- I've heard similar stories put forth, with variations.  Right from the beginning, there were some who claimed that the entire "New Coke" fiasco was simply a marketing ploy in and of itself.  Some said that the real reason was merely to attract attention and thus increase sales of the "Classic Coke" product.  While others said that the real intent was to shore up falling market sales against Pepsi  --

But on the other side, there were also industry insiders who claimed that the higher-ups among the Coca-Cola execs were genuinely taken aback by the adverse reaction to the roll out of their "New Coke" -- which they thought would be a sure-fire winner.  I read business articles at the time which cited various Wall Street types and others in the industry who said that, no -- there weren't any ulterior motives behind New Coke.  The underlying factor was that the executives and marketing types at Coca-Cola stumbled -- and somewhat badly, too.

Frankly, I don't know who to believe with that one.  But I do know that the public overwhelmingly rejected New Coke -- regardless of what factors actually motivated the Coca-Cola company to change their core product that way.  My point was that the same potential danger would likewise obtain if the Poser interface were to be suddenly and drastically changed from its current form.  End users might taste the new sure-fire winner, and say "Bleaaaah!"

Quote - Incidentally, SM at CP has just put Passport Memeberships on sale a penny under $50 (USA), and Poser 6 on sale for under $3 (use with the passport). For under $53 (USA) one can get Poser 6, and upgrade to Poser 7 for a reduced amount. This is a little different, but not unlike the deals that EF gave just before announcing Poser 7. Could this be the kick-off for Poser Pro? DAZ has lately introduced new figures and new D|S versions at about the time that Poser brings out a new version.

LMK

Here we agree.  I've also been noticing subtle hints which seem to indicate that the roll out of Poser Pro isn't far off.

2/20/08

XENOPHONZ:

When Coke made its big change, I was drinking diet drinks, when "Clasic Coke" came "back" I treated myself to a can and was horrified with the taste that others thought was so good. I asked a friend at the local bottler who showed me the ingrediant list printed on the bottles of the original Coke, and the "Clasic Coke" (which did not claim to be original). I didn't need Wall Street articles to see and taste the difference.

I agree, however, with the point about evolutionary change as opposed to revolutionary change. I think it must be quite difficult to manage the "change everything now" and the "change nothing but give me better" crowds with the same product. I can live with the same GI, but I would like better memory management, and a more stable program. I would love to see some new nodes so that BagginsBill can do new things to amaze me.

What else have you noticed from SM/CP?

LMK

Quote - I agree, however, with the point about evolutionary change as opposed to revolutionary change. I think it must be quite difficult to manage the "change everything now" and the "change nothing but give me better" crowds with the same product. I can live with the same GI, but I would like better memory management, and a more stable program. I would love to see some new nodes so that BagginsBill can do new things to amaze me.

IMO, better memory management, a more stable program, and an improved render engine are the #1 priorities for Poser.  I'd like to see other things happen, too -- but those are at the top of my personal list.

Quote - What else have you noticed from SM/CP?

I've mentioned this in another thread -- but I've also noticed that it's been announced that the bundled software deals which feature P7 will be "ending soon".  I've also noted that SM has pretty much absorbed EF's website -- while announcing that they were doing so in a prior e-mail newsletter.  All subtle hints, IMO.

Oh, yeah -- as for the New Coke thing, that's not a dog that I have a fight in ;-) -- beyond using it as an example of the buying publics rejection of a radically changed product......regardless of which marketing motives were behind the change.

The Coke folks were either geniuses or fools -- perhaps both. 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Ok, since we really don't know what poser is going to do in the future let me put it this way. if these new features appear in Poser 8 then Poser Pro is not Poser 7 Pro, it is Poser 7.5 Pro.

If these features do not appear in Poser 8 (and currently there is no reason to belive they will) then this is a parallell development of Poser like Vue 6 Esprit vs Vue 6 Infinate.

That's what we know as of this particular moment in time.  But I wouldn't take that pdf chart as being carved in stone.  To do so is.......risky.

The released version of Poser Pro could end up being better......or worse......than what that chart says.

IM really curious
Why  do you have this belief that SM is
hiding some secret features from it user base and purposefully publishing
an incomplete/misleading feature list?
what do you believe they have to gain from such a ploy???

good luck with that line of reasoning...

Quote - IM really curious
Why  do you have this belief that SM is
hiding some secret features from it user base and purposefully publishing
an incomplete/misleading feature list?
what do you believe they have to gain from such a ploy???

Show me where I said that SM is "purposefully" publishing an incomplete/misleading feature list, and then I'll buy into what you are saying.  I never said that -- you did.

Unlike some others, I don't assign sinister motives to the corporate types if and until such a time as it's actually proven to me that they harbor such motives.  Frankly, that kind of forum talk generally stems from an eager willingness to buy into the worst possible assumptions -- assumptions -- about what a given company is doing.  There's a whole lotta pronouncements made in forum postings that comprise nothing other than just so much guessing or commentary-style interpretation of events -- but which are frequently presented as set-in-stone facts.  So I make no judgments whatsoever as to SM's feature list being "purposefully" wrong.......as in deliberately created by them in a dishonest way.

There are legitimate reasons for the features of a final release to differ in some ways from a published feature pre-list.  And especially so in this case.

1.  I do not know that SM was running the show at the time that the feature list was published.  SM might decide to make some changes, now that they are running the show.

2.  ANY company might find things that they feel need to be changed/deleted/corrected/whatever between a previous announcement and an actual software release.  This isn't "dishonesty" on a given company's part -- it's merely recognizing reality.

BTW - as I mentioned earlier, the final released version of Poser Pro could turn out to be either better or worse than what the feature list now shows.  I'll also add that the final release could turn out to be precisely as the feature list indicates.  But based upon prior experiences with software releases -- it'd be an interesting anomaly to watch if that is true.  Until the release happens: I won't be making any assumptions -- in any direction.

3.  I wish that people would get over the need to assign negative motives to companies and / or individuals with whom they disagree.  It's just possible that they are what they appear to be.  Perhaps some company does harbor bad motives for doing what they do -- but such companies usually don't last.  They usually get caught.

So, no -- I harbor no "belief" that SM is in any way, shape, or form being "dishonest" or "misleading".  I am merely standing on prior experience and a solid recognition of reality.

Next charge, please.............

Human beings base every aspect of reason on assumptions.  If as you say, you refuse to make any assumptions (itself an assumtion!), you cannot reason (duh).