just a survey what makes him look the same even with morphs he just looks older

Attached Link: http://www.geocities.com/colm_j/kane/kane.htm

Hey Travis Baby, check this image out, its my Maximus Character for Michael, I created 60 morphs for the face, and then rolled them into these characters, I think he looks vastly different from Michael....some old some not. check out the url too, you can see an anim of all the morphs, one into the next. syyd

Syyd, this is a terrific character. I've been watching him being used in the gallery. My emphasis is on other things right now, but sooner or later I'll grab him S.

I have a new character in the store that I dont think looks like the stock Mike at all as well. But you are right he is really hard to get very young looking in my opinion as well.

Diane, thank you, we've been rolling on together for quite a long time now you and I, thrilled to have you, as well, in the Photography forum. I didn't post this as an advertisement so much to buy him, but because I am very excited by the morphs and character. Michael is a fine model to begin with, and it was a lot of reading I did about what people wanted out of him, and one of them was the ability to change his face drastically. In particular, the "Yeshu" and "Zacarias" face, but I made the morphs so that the face becomes almost like putty, and you get these great skin folds and pliancy that skin really does have. Sort of like a thickness almost. I guess you can tell I am excited. Thanks Diane, Syyd

Tammy also does some fine work with Michael...just check it out! Go Tammy!

Thank you Syyd I think your work is excellent and I really admire it. I really appreciate the compliment. I have a request while we are on a male model thread though, how about an alternative to Mike, I love Dans Natalia and would love to see another high quality male.

yeah, I guess we could always do with another man LOL...I also admire Dan's work, Natalia and the rest..

I think he can be wildly varied ... I have a number of heads that don't look much alike. You can get just about anybody out of him. Mostly with the stock morphs even.

I think one the main problems that has plagued Michael, is that not many morph targets exist for him. I have had the pleasure of been able to use Kane as the characters have been developing and I know that Syyd had to do a lot of facial morphs just to get away from the stock Michael face. Michael, I think 'is' difficult to make young looking in the classic sense and maybe that is something worth looking into. Personally, I think that Michael and Victoria are fine models and the best there is for Poser. I never use the stock figures any more. Although they were great at the time, after using the millennium figures for so long it seems impossible to go back. This image is 'Yeshu'. Another of Syyd's morphs for kane. Notice how the cheeks sag, the furrowed brow and the hook of the nose. None of these are the stock Michael morphs. Colm...

Wow Syyd!! I checked out your link and your new character looks great!! I may just have to snag him :). You did a fantastic job on the morphing. It's like having a whole new model :). Laurie

Unless you purchase the characters above or use the "old" morph, I do believe he looks pretty much the same no matter what you do. Textures seem to be the key to changing him, not so much the morph targets. I hope this is fixed if and when DAZ announces a Michael 2.0. Ghost, I'd like to see some of the faces you've made with the stock morphs...if only just to inspire me to fool with him a little more. ;) Thanks, take care! SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

I agree with SnowSultan as well. But I did notice, that ethnicity is hard to get as well. It takes more than throwing the Asian, African American, Native Indian morphs or to achieve a biracial character. It still doesn't look right, ethnicity differences varies across the board. There is so many variation in ethnicity that I hope Michael 2.0 will have that as well. There is alot of work that needs to be done in this area.

Some to start with ... Snowsultan, All of these are created with the default morphs. I added one morph to the untextured heads in the top left. Otherwise default. He could use a younger morph but otherwise he is fairly versitile. Hope these links and such are in order. These are some that are pretty much ugly right now since they have no textures but just use the Michael morphs that come with him. http://forums.big-i.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID21/8.html Here is another with texture. http://forums.big-i.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=16&forum=DCForumID21&omm=0&auto_sense=on And another .. well mostly the same but with a different angle so he isn't too different from the last http://forums.big-i.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID21/26.html

Thank you Ghost, those are very good examples. The textured ones are extremely impressive, but I still think it is in fact your textures that make those images shine, not any morphs. Very good work though, I guess I'll have to work with him a bit more now! ;) Take care! SnowS

There is a very, very good chance that I will be doing a male character at some point. Now as to when I can't really say. It won't be for a while yet, as I am swamped with projects as it is. I have a question, though. What kind of male character would you like to see? Mike is kind of buffed. Would you like a more trim character? Let me know. Just please no Ricky Martin.

Heroic type's are boring...unless counterbalanced by some real characters........

Sure you can make him look different, but there aren't that many morph combinations that will make him look "pleasing to the eyes." He totally needs a face lift (no pun intended). I have to agree it's because he is weak on morph targets as he stands. Maybe the M2 will be a lot better. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=300435

I'd like to think my Straight A's morphs (available at http://www.theattic.nl for free) give Michael a few new looks as well - I particularly like Alex :) What I don't like about Michael is his mouth and chin area, his jaw is somehow way too strong and that's something I tried to fix when I created for example Alex.

Eowyn's MT's added to the stock MT's will give a lot of versatility..not as mych as say... the olde near forgotten P3/4 man... but a lot more than current 8 ) CHeers

There is some really great stuff there Ghost. As far as making Michael look different, I think the two above are 'really' cool especially for ethnicity. The one on the right looks about 24, which is pretty young for Michael. Maybe the problem with him in the first place, is he was modeled on a particular face. Not that there is anything wrong with that face, but Vicky, the original face was quite bland. A lot of people said they couldn't make her look pretty. I never found that problem. I think in the case of a new male model, versitility is the key. A lot of morphs obviously, but a face that can be morphed without a lot of trouble. Michael for example has a strange nose tip that is extremely difficult to get rid of even in 3D Max. It would have been a different story if he had a rounded nose tip as you could square it off much more easily. The P4 man IMO, as I stated earlier, was good in his day but looks pretty plastic now. The best I ever got was old 'Elric' here...LOL I think a good texture makes a great difference and can also hide a multitude of sins in the original mesh, but I really do believe that variety in a Poser model comes from the capabilities to morph a character from the geometries outwards. In This pic 'Elric', he has no texture on his face apart from a bump map. I would love to recreate him with Michael, but i think that V2 would stand a better chance. As soon as I saw the 'Hag' morph, I thought of him...

hey Syyd, I've been watching Kane in the galleries too, I tell you he looks just like my husband, bald too LOL. Except of course my guy's got lighter hair... I'm definitely going to have to pick up kane....

Hey, dcort... I personally would like to see male that is more trim than Mike. Just keep the shoulders a little broad, but lean.(That's how I like 'em, all that buff muscular stuff does nothing for me.) Now, I am not saying scrawny, by any means, although a morph to allow that would be nice, just not so macho macho. Just my humble opinion.

I really like Mike, actually I prefer working with him. I really didnt mean to imply that he was'nt versatile because I think he is. I think some of the above threads prove that too, but Id just like to have some male alternatives to work with.

Well the textures do make him shine but a lot can be done with the morphs included. i have found that one of the biggest thing to de-mike him is make the mouth narrow ... he has a really wide mouth as it stands and that screams Mike. And thanks everyone. Colm .. one of my bland head morphs might work well as a starting point. I did it for Loki and he has the thin sneaky thing going on some. http://forums.big-i.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID21/8.html Bottom right. Those morphs are at http://ghostofmacbeth.digitalartsites.com the characters don't work though so don't try .. I am working on getting a solution. the morphs are fine though. Later

Thanks for the link to the morphs ghost. They are way too cool. I agree with you about the the mouth narrow thing. I think Syyd uses that a lot. It makes a big difference. I just wish I could do something with the end of his nose.

Colm Welcome and yeah .. the mouth is the biggest thing I have found. What about the end of his nose?

Hey all, sorry I missed all the posts....Boy Dan, I'd love to see you do a male model...if its anything like your last, we will be lining up overnight! SnowSultan, great observation about texturing, textures can greatly vary him, and then with character morphs, you can do amazing things. I think variety is the key, and when they make Michael 2, my strongest wishes are for a new nose tip, and eyelids, and less blockiness, more pliability. GOMBeth, you are doing some amazing things...I agree about the mouth, its one of the first dials I latched onto. Its just very exciting to be a part of all this, and talk to all of you!

There is actually nothing wrong with his nose so to speak. I would have preffered a nose that was more rounded at the end with the option of a morph to create the nose that he ships with. For me it has been impossible to rid him of this feature.

sometimes it looks a bit like a cuban heel LOL

This all reminds me of the old poser 4 Male (Dedorcification) conversations a few years ago. -Gabe-

Thanks Syyd. Was one of the first things I figured out too. And Colm .. I figured out one thing to do to get rid of the pointy. A little nose round, a little nose wide and a pinch of the nostrils. it helps a good bit.

I'm sorry Eowyn, I forgot about your great morphs! I've only tried them out once, but they looked very good even without any additional tweaking. Thanks for sharing those! Interesting discussion here, it reminds me that even though Curious Labs and DAZ create the software and figures for us, we on this forum are usually the ones who perfect them. :) Take care! SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Eowyn your morphs are an inspiration, because they create a vastly different look....

heyas; well, it seems to me that most of the morphs michael ships with only change the shape of his jaw. thats why he always looks the same. :/ i dunno the construction morphs dont seem to change him much. to me, anyway. maybe i'm just not very good with them.

Does this one look different enough?

EXCELLENT!!!!!!! Looks like my old chemistry professor from school!

I think you can get him to look different, but I think getting him to look younger is hard, I think Eowyn and Ghost of Macbeth did an excellent job though, I have one that looks maybe late 20's but I have never been able to get an early 20s, teens look with him like you can Vicki. Now I have this sudden urge to morph Mike :) because the images in this thread are Excellent.

Can't WAIT until DAZ makes Michial 2.0, No matter what you do He looks like he has full blown AIDS waisting syndrome when you play with his morphs. Its like you need to make his cheeck more fuller then he looks fat, I think a morph is needed to keep his cheek bones in check when adding more to his cheeks or less.

HI this is still a rough texture WIP. I'm making head morphs for Michael. This is a fun project for me. I do find it is hard to get differnt looks from the eyes with just the default morphs he comes with.

Anton! that looks superb, I think the reason why most michaels look the same is because of the eyes aswell, its like looking at a limited gene pool LOL

Good work Anton! Looks great :). Nice hairy tex too ;). Kinda reminds me of the hubby! Laurie