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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Feb 03 12:46 am)
Subject: Sexual identity for figures
*I was hoping they'd keep hitler out of this, but I suppose it was inevitable.
anyway, just a word of caution to poser users: don't even think about comparing yourselves
to the great masters of the italian renaissance (in regard to cherubs, amor, cupid et al.).
it's just another of the several self-delusions peculiar to the poser subculture that have made
poser the laughing stock of the larger 3D community (users of more expensive apps).
- Are we artists or poser users? For me, I'm an artist that uses poser.
As an artists I cannot tell people how they should compare themselves or how they should feel. After 3 decades of artwork and music banned, books burned, and 5 wars, I can however express how I feel. http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=john+lennon+tribute&b=85&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-myy&fr2=tab-web&tnr=21&vid=1289404286
Quote - > Quote - Hitler was a pagan? Somebody rewrite history when I wasn't looking?
Coldrake
What is a pagan anyway? Does that mean a non christian? I guess I will look it up..................................................................................WOW! I'm a PAGAN, cool!
[/I] Actually, the words 'pagan' and 'heathen' are two classic examples of religious misconduct in the name of power. The root word for pagan is the latin paganus; closest english translation of said word is a vulgarized 'country dweller'. So calling someone a pagan in Latin is the same as calling them a hick. Rube. Billy-bob. Clodhopper. Farmboy in english. Heathen is a contraction of the gaelic heathern....a dweller on the heath. Again, a term for those who lived away from a city, in the country. This came about due to the fact that the early Christian church was concentrated in the cities of the time, where the royalty and the money and the power were. The country folk paid little heed to the self-proclaimed importance of said church, and followed their own ways even as the church was urging the cityfolk to suffer for the good of thier souls. So those words came into use in the sermons and such that railed against such lifestyles and non Church practices.
Speaking about censorship: AFAIK is "Mein Kampf" the only book in Holland that's illegal.
How far a thread can dwell...
So the following is completely OT... On one side the NAZI's wanted to restore the old German religion (more than 1300 years ago!) with the whole Walhalla and Gods like Wodan, Freia and Thor, which are still echoed in our days of the week: Wednesday, Friday and Thursday. On the other side they found sources in occultisme and their symbolism like the swastika. Allthough never proved, some people claim that the trivial race-theories of the antroposophy of Rudolf Steiner and theosophy of Mdm.Blavatsky were responsible for the horrors of the NAZI-regime and the Holocaust. If you find this unbelievable, google for the "Thule" society (or "gesellschaft") I don't think antroposofy or theosophy are responsible for it, but the NAZI's found a way to "legalize" their crimes.
Anyway, the NAZI's wanted to make their own religion and mysthiscim which had very little to do with catholicism or lutheranism, which were (and are) the two mayor religion of Germany.
About the way the NAZI's looked at art: They had very specific rules which was and wasn't allowed: everything which felt outside these rules was called "entartet", which means as much as "pervert" (not quite, but I cannot think of another translation), they even had a museum in Münich where they exposed those "entartete kunst" with paintings of Klein, Kandinsky and more German painters who were famous (and still are) in the years of the Weimar republic.
The Statues and paintings that were allowed showed gigantic, heroïc and often nude, well proportioned(!) men and women.
You see the same kind of pictures and statues (and architecture) in other dictatorial countries like the former Sovjet-union.
TBC. (of to bed)
Bopper.
-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?
You people have way too much time on your hands.
Yes, you. All of you. ;-)
Go outside and mow the lawn, sit in the shade and read a book or ogle some girlies in your town square.
Forget about the kiddie pics, the weird Poser sites and Hitler. And please, no kitty pics.
Spend your time learning something technical and CG related. Start with normal maps or something equally challenging. ;-)
Miss Nancy - actually, the most recent of my favorited artists who left did works based on Renaissance art and writing. he was in the midst of religious based works with babies, and i thought nothing of it until his whole gallery disappeared. and frankly, none of us are Brom, Frazetta, or Vallejo, but those are the major influences on the galleries. i don't think it's awful or automatically hubris if someone choses Michelangelo, Caravaggio and da Vinci instead.
Quote - From Wikipedia:
>> Hitler was raised by Roman Catholic parents, but after he left home, he never attended Mass or received the sacraments,[78]Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and professed a belief in Jesus Christ.[79]In his speeches and publications Hitler even spoke of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice".[80][81] His private statements, as reported by his intimates, are more mixed, showing Hitler as a religious man but critical of traditional Christianity.[82]However, in contrast to other Nazi leaders, Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or neo-paganism,[82]and ridiculed such beliefs in Mein Kampf.[83]Rather, Hitler advocated a "Positive Christianity",[84]a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews.Hitler believed in Arthur de Gobineau's ideas of struggle for survival between the different races, among which the "Aryan race"—guided by "Providence"—was supposed to be the torchbearers of civilization. In Hitler's conception Jews were enemies of all civilization.
Hitler, despite his native Catholicism, favored aspects of Protestantism if they were more susceptible to his own objectives. At the same time, he adopted some elements of the Catholic Church's hierarchical organization, liturgy and phraseology in his politics.[85][86]
And we all know how "100% reliable" wikipedia is
Quote -
Y'know, I get up in the morning, fire up the computer, and dash off a couple of masterpieces before going to work. Those Italians took, what, months? years? to complete just a single canvas.
Many of them merely had their apprentices do the grunt-work for most of their later output, and they finished it up, concentrating instead on their 'biggie' projects. ;)
/P
Quote - You people have way too much time on your hands.
Yes, you. All of you. ;-)
Go outside and mow the lawn, sit in the shade and read a book or ogle some girlies in your town square.
Forget about the kiddie pics, the weird Poser sites and Hitler. And please, no kitty pics.
Spend your time learning something technical and CG related. Start with normal maps or something equally challenging. ;-)
I learned a shedload more PHP than I ever wanted to today... does that count?
/P
Quote -
And we all know how "100% reliable" wikipedia is
Wikipedia pages usually come with cites and references for most subjects. You're more than free to note or refute the presence or absence of said cites and references... Simply saying 'Oh, it's Wikipedia!' like that were something other than ad hominem is kinda lazy, y'know?
/P
Quote - And we all know how "100% reliable" wikipedia is
No, is not. Wikipedia have errors, but is made by people like us, each of us knowing something and each one posting what knows, you by yourself can contribute to Wikipedia.
Beside all the errors or mistakes, Wikipedia is the best information source and the best starting point to start your own research. Is the best because is not made by people that have control over you, people that tell you what you must know and what you cannot know, people that changes facts and history because the real truth doesn't match their religion, politics or propaganda.
You can find information that no school book, no media, no pastor, no great famous scientist tells you that exist and never allow you to know.
What is right, what is wrong is you and only you that decide, do your own research, that's the difference between a human and a parrot or sheep.
Stupidity also evolves!
Quote - > Quote -
And we all know how "100% reliable" wikipedia is
Wikipedia pages usually come with cites and references for most subjects. You're more than free to note or refute the presence or absence of said cites and references... Simply saying 'Oh, it's Wikipedia!' like that were something other than ad hominem is kinda lazy, y'know?
/P
Sorry going to college and one of the first things they tell us is dont use wikipedia for any sources. if its better now than it was thats good but apparently the professors here havent caught on yet.
... Wow.
Talk about a post that never asked for what it got. There are a whole lot of dead bodies in this conversation... Hitler and Caravaggio in the same pile! Weird.
Erotic imagery is only for those people who are enlightened enough to handle it, and the enlightened people are always the ones who occupy the upper tiers of society. Only the educated and privileged classes can be trusted to hold the keys to the doorway of the animal mind, and mere plebes must be prohibited from exposure... for their own good!... otherwise they'd all be raping rabbits in the streets, drinking blood and dancing around in the moonlight rather than working, consuming, paying taxes, watching television and going to church. This attitude is not new; in fact, it's one of the hallmarks of Western civilization. It's stupid, of course, but it isn't going to go away because Poser got invented. Anyone who makes art that speaks too much to the animal mind (not that the original poster was going to) runs the risk of needing to be thoughtfully corrected by those who know better.
anyway, just a word of caution to poser users: don't even think about comparing yourselves
to the great masters of the italian renaissance (in regard to cherubs, amor, cupid et al.).
it's just another of the several self-delusions peculiar to the poser subculture that have made
poser the laughing stock of the larger 3D community (users of more expensive apps).
I am one of those expensive apps users (3DS/Maya), and I get what you're saying here, and yes, there is some criticism of Poser, but... I don't laugh. Poser is a perfectly legitimate art tool that saves me loads of time when I don't want to reinvent the wheel (body). What I laugh at is the piles and piles of gravity-proof boobies that come out daily as guys discover that they can make their own porn. However, I also realize that the demand for porn pushes new mediums, always has, always will, and that keeps said mediums affordable and available. That means more artists have access to these tools. I've seen some art come straight from the Poser rendering engine that was so good that it makes me feel embarrassed for owning ubersoftware.
Some of the folks who argue against Poser say that it's the Fisher Price of 3D work, but not every work of digital art is about modeling. If you're trying to make art, then the important thing is the art, not whether you used the most expensive tools. Great art can be made with tempera paints and pencils and it is hanging in galleries every day for sale for thousands of dollars. I wouldn't want it thought that because I use the big apps, I have no regard for Poser, when it is a perfectly legitimate tool that allows young artists to get a start in the 3D art world. If everyone had to start with 3DS to be taken seriously, the pool of real artists would be limited to the privileged and the pirates... and, it's worth pointing out that this is something that many 3D artists would like (without the pirates, of course), because competition is threatening.
Anyway, that was off topic, sorry, but at least it wasn't Hitler.
Quote - This is probably not hitler either
Oh yes, these are really the superior race. I have an army of them and a hell hound (even she's a little stupid).
Stupidity also evolves!
Quote - > Quote -
Go to Renderotica and make that suggestion -- in regards to this specific subject. I.....doubt that it'll be well-received.
Err, there's a damned good reason why we don't allow pics or representations of naked kids @ Renderotica. C'mon, Xeno... think about this for a second. :)
Uh.......right. Actually, your point was the point of my point. DTG hosts/owns Animotions, too -- right? All of them very different websites -- with very different TOS's.
Well, the major project was just finished for me about 20 mins ago -- it's now getting on past 3AM. I am so glad that I get to go back in to work tomorrow. At least I get to sleep in.
Glancing over the thread thus far:
1. Yes, Hitler was a pagan. But his closest henchmen such as Goebbels and Himmler tried hard to influence him in different directions. Goebbels tended to be in the "positive Christianity" camp -- while Himmler was an out-and-out occultist. Hitler ruled them all: and he deliberately played them off against each other. Hitler was like that. So-called "positive Christianity" was a poisonous philosophical stew of "Christianity" cooked-up & twisted in a ridiculous attempt to force-fit it into the Nazi world view: thus making it "positive". shrug Those seeking power will often use whatever means comes to their hand -- including attempts to turn something 'popular' into something that it isn't, and to make it teach things that it never taught: outside of their own sick fantasies.
2. Yep. Eros (Roman Cupid) was often depicted as an unclothed infant or nude child. What was Eros the Greek god of again..........?
3. Start a thread that even hints at this subject: and in so doing jab a stick into a hornet's nest. While jabbing sticks into hornet's nests might be fun, it's also a potentially painful experience.
4. Rendo's rules on the topic are highly unlikely to change. Same goes for other Poser-related websites.
5. We've been over this territory many, many times before. And with the same result each & every time.
"Oppressors" come in all shapes & sizes. Among the worst are those oppressors who'd like to force us all to be free. With them dictating & defining what "free" means for the rest of us, of course. Sometimes oppression comes with an iron hand à la Adolf Hitler -- and sometimes it comes in far more subtly: with the outward seeming and seductive promise of liberation. In the current era, a lot of people fall for that one. And we pay the price, too. Both personally and collectively.
Quote - > Quote - > Quote -
And we all know how "100% reliable" wikipedia is
Wikipedia pages usually come with cites and references for most subjects. You're more than free to note or refute the presence or absence of said cites and references... Simply saying 'Oh, it's Wikipedia!' like that were something other than ad hominem is kinda lazy, y'know?
/P
Sorry going to college and one of the first things they tell us is dont use wikipedia for any sources. if its better now than it was thats good but apparently the professors here havent caught on yet.
Hey, the professors at Duke seem to think that Second Life is the greatest way on earth to teach classes. What's that tell you? :-)
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
"""And to think Michaelangelo started out with sticks and sepia, no proper paints at all, as everyone knows, you certainly cannot create anything artistic without the proper expensively purchased tools. Art is for those elite few who can afford it.""
Very sigworthy Phantom. I can't stand the elitist asshats who gather around in the higher end forums and drool over eachother. On the other hand some of the stuff people consider Poser "Art" makes my soul hurt. The comment club is a big embarrassment - more drooling over eachother less worthy of it.
This thread has gone so far off track Im wondering if it would be ok for me to just bring up my question about Python in here....:p
re wikipedia - not all professors are that reliable in thier information either, that seems silly to me that one would completely oust a source of information.
uh oh - no more forum time for me - a naked 3 yr old just ran in wanting a bath - someone call the morality police please I'm pretty sure I saw genitals right before he zoomed off.
I am: aka Velocity3d
Quote -
Sorry going to college and one of the first things they tell us is dont use wikipedia for any sources.
They tell you that for a reason - College is supposed to be (among other things) about doing the research yourself, not about having it all handed to you on a silver plate. IOW, you're supposed to do the checking and cross-checking, to actually read and study the cites, and to form your own hypotheses based on that information. They want you to know for certain what it is you're talking about, not simply rely on an assembled montage of knowledge and opinion to do it for you. ;)
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Quote - Hey, the professors at Duke seem to think that Second Life is the greatest way on earth to teach classes. What's that tell you? :-)
That transmission/presentation media differs from research discipline? ;)
Some profs would likely be totally cool w/ Wikipedia (Hell, I wouldn't have minded too much) if the main goal isn't research for research's sake. OTOH, I can see profs banning it in subjects such as engineering and chemistry (for safety reasons), or history and PolSci (to make you think for yourself). It all depends on Rigor and how important it is to the process.
--
Quote -
re wikipedia - not all professors are that reliable in thier information either, that seems silly to me that one would completely oust a source of information.
I'd bring up the pervasive textbook scams that a shedload of profs delight in profiting from, but that would be one long, ugly tangent... :)
--
Quote - Erotic imagery is only for those people who are enlightened enough to handle it, and the enlightened people are always the ones who occupy the upper tiers of society. Only the educated and privileged classes can be trusted to hold the keys to the doorway of the animal mind, and mere plebes must be prohibited from exposure... for their own good!... otherwise they'd all be raping rabbits in the streets, drinking blood and dancing around in the moonlight rather than working, consuming, paying taxes, watching television and going to church. This attitude is not new; in fact, it's one of the hallmarks of Western civilization. It's stupid, of course, but it isn't going to go away because Poser got invented. Anyone who makes art that speaks too much to the animal mind (not that the original poster was going to) runs the risk of needing to be thoughtfully corrected by those who know better.
Sorta, but not quite. The Vatican (of all places) has the near-absolute largest collection of medieval pr0n to be had anywhere... from a time when books were luxury items that few people could afford. In spite of the hoard, they preached porn to be anathema because of what they perceived to be a main reason for Rome's downfall - lust. It also happens that unbridled lust (esp. for things/reasons that have nothing to do with procreation) is considered a sin by most societies (not religions, societies - the distinction is important).
Quote - However, I also realize that the demand for porn pushes new mediums, always has, always will, and that keeps said mediums affordable and available.
How d'ya think the Internet got so popular in the first place, and BBSes before that? ;)
/P
>> That transmission/presentation media differs from research discipline? ;)
Close but no cigar. One professor there wanted to use Second Life as a means of teaching psychotherapy, via roleplaying within a consulting room detailed all the way down to a virtual box of tissues. Were this online teaching, hey, no problem... but she has her roleplaying students in her classroom, which, to me anyway, would seem a more realistic way of teaching such methodology.
Another one has an even more bizarre use in mind for SL. She teaches creative writing -- again, in a classroom situation, not online. But she wants to build an island at SL for her students to use for "creative inspiration"... uh, right...
Cut through all of it, and what's really happening is that folks like these see SL as a means of getting grant funding for projects that has zero use, either in or out of the classroom... but it gets them the money and supposedly demonstrates that theyre staying ahead of the technological curve. Given that the professors who decide who gets what funding are just as (1) clueless and (2) utterly dazzled by things like SL (not to mention other truly bizarre and misguided applications of technology within the education environment), these "instructors" will no doubt get their cash.
Oh, and with no after-project accountability. Hmm.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Quote -
Cut through all of it, and what's really happening is that folks like these see SL as a means of getting grant funding for projects that has zero use, either in or out of the classroom... but it gets them the money and supposedly demonstrates that theyre staying ahead of the technological curve.
That sounds about right. Sort of like how every physics and meteorological/climatology prof can find themselves awash in cash if they use the words "Global Warming" in the grant proposal often enough. :)
/P
And it looks as if the 'Wylde has been successfully harassed. Check out the top of the faerie friends forum; Thorne has implemented a ban on underage nudity, realistic or otherwise, as determined by their staff. I can only hope that the karmic rebound on those forum waggers and others is so spectacular that the marks never fade....
Content Advisory! This message contains profanity
*And it looks as if the 'Wylde has been successfully harassed. Check out the top of the faerie friends forum; Thorne has implemented a ban on underage nudity, realistic or otherwise, as determined by their staff.
I can only hope that the karmic rebound on those forum waggers and others is so spectacular that the marks never fade....
You know I'm against porn. So I got to ask what kind of pornographic shit was going on with those faeries!?!
Check out the link http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=john+lennon+mind+games+tribute&n=21&ei=utf-8&js=1&fr=my-myy&fr2=tab-web&tnr=20&vid=1303146938
The problem is not pornography neither real paedophiles, the problem is art, they want to destroy art one more time in history.
The only one that goes to jais is the guy that has some images in his hard-disk. Nothing happens with bishops, pastors and politicians no matter how much are involved with real paedophilia, they are protected and untouched. The very few street paedophiles that are identified and located are sent to psychiatric institutions. No jail for real paedophiles!
As for real porn, it remain untouched. Porn is the #1 business of internet, it generates tens of billions profit, is a big $$$$$$$ and all banks, credit card companies, politicians, moralists, religious participate of this profit.
All the measures, action and laws are against artistic expression, no matter if the art is good or a crap, is art. Sites dealing with art are banned, blocked, closed, under strict censorship.
You don't see any real porn site closed, any kid can see any real porn in the internet he wants, the thing that a kid cannot see are nude Aikos at Renderosity, or faeries that are not fully dressed!
A kid can watch a porn DVD, but he is not allowed to see a nude statue in a museum.
This is the first step for banning art, porn and paedophilia are the tools used. With underage argument you are removing a segment of artistic expression and with the porn argument they are resticting a big part of artisring expression.
If successful this first stage the second stage will be banning all nudity from art and what is nude is also expandable, if a woman is dressed with a burka, she's nude!
The third stahe is suppress all human reprsentation, neither a clothed man is saved, they have another tool for this task.
"Your image was removed from the gallery and you are banned from the site because the man in your picture looks as a gay"!
As 90% of western art deals with humans, wetern art will be reduced almost to nothing.
You can think that I am exagerating, that is fantasy, but look in history what happened with art in Germany after the Reform.
It can happen again, but it doesn't mean that it will happen, it only depend on what we do. If we do nothing it will happen, but if we not remain as stupid sheep they can do nothing and the world is too big to be controlled by a bunch of fanatics.
Stupidity also evolves!
Quote - *And it looks as if the 'Wylde has been successfully harassed. Check out the top of the faerie friends forum; Thorne has implemented a ban on underage nudity, realistic or otherwise, as determined by their staff.
I can only hope that the karmic rebound on those forum waggers and others is so spectacular that the marks never fade....
You know I'm against porn. So I got to ask what kind of pornographic shit was going on with those faeries!?!
None. There was no explicit genitalia. No sexual contact. What there was? Innocent nudity. Like a couple of kids climbing into a Japanese soaking bath. You had buttcrack and pure cuteness. No raunch. But those who apparently are incapable of parsing the difference between simple situational nudity and pornographic sexuality got their way yet again. Which is why I very deliberately used the word 'harrassed'. And again hope that that big truck named Karma leaves treadmarks on them from top to bottom.....
And of course, like cockroaches, you'll never see any of these morality judges actualy come out into the light where you can confront them one on one. They'll hide behind important sounding names or "spokespeople" or anything else they can to get at least one or two levels of buffers between you and them. And why? Because if you got them to directly deal with their own feelings about it, it'd demonstrate -- quite ably - who the real perverts are in these situations. It's not the folks making the artwork, not by a long shot. It;s the folk who sit in apparent judgment, who probably go home to their little houses in the suburbs where they can quietly look at their own stashes of questionable material, safe and secure in the knowledge that no one would ever, ever suspect them of anything...
I learned a long time ago as a gay man that the people who scream the loudest against me and those like me are the ones with the deepest issues to deal with about it all. God knows the current congress has proven time and again that this is so. I suspect that the folks who rattle on and on about "protecting the innocence of the children!" are the ones we really need to have behind bars...
But y'know, just once I'd love for one of these fear mongers to come into one of these threads and try to defend their actions. They never will, of course, bugt I'd sure love to see it happen. They's last about five seconds before folks ripped their "logic" to shreds and plunged them into a little cold water of reality.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Well folks, before everyone starts pointing fingers at the Moral Brigade (or whatever boogeyman), maybe you should do what I did - ask why.
I'm not at liberty to divulge conversation, but I will say this: It wasn't a rash decision, and y'all are barking up the wrong trees. Please leave it at that.
/P
>> I'm not at liberty to divulge conversation
And this would be news? :)
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Oooh....the DRAMA. Lol.
Loose lips sink ships ?
Not sure what to make from it.
Did I "kill them" because I steered three people to their freestuff area ?
I actually didn't mention them by name in my posts on purpose because the original topic was "Where can I get child genitals" and people already make enough simplifications.
But OTOH, faeriewylde never was exactly a "secret hideway".
They have a store and links to them are plastered all over the poserverse including Renderosity.
So why the hysteric TOS change now ?
Just because some a**hat didn't stick to their original TOS ?
They should make up their mind about artistic underage nudity.
It now looks as if they always secretely thought what they allowed was actually illegal but they allowed it anyway as long as noone noticed and now that they've been mentioned in the same thread as underaged nudity (for the umpteemth time since Rendo kicked the faeries out, btw), they act like cockroaches when the lights are turned on ?
What rubbish is this ?
Has noone in the Poserverse even a hint of a backbone any more ?
If someone posted something really illegal on Faeriewylde either because he didn't now better or to provoke them, then just delete the pics and either warn or ban the offender.
Case closed.
I always had the highest respect for Thorne and Faeriewylde, even though I never ever posted a single picture there.
But it was reassuring that in a world gone hysteric I still could if I wanted.
Once a troll, always a troll, eh Pengy ?
And quick at editing your posts. Snicker.
Not possible to get a straight normal answer from you, or anything else than a snide retort, eh ?
How come you never are that "witty" when you post on feariewylde ?
Reading your posts over there, one could actually confuse you with a human being. Lol.
Enough with the snide remarks. Debate is one thing, insults are another.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - Well folks, before everyone starts pointing fingers at the Moral Brigade (or whatever boogeyman), maybe you should do what I did - ask why.
I'm not at liberty to divulge conversation, but I will say this: It wasn't a rash decision, and y'all are barking up the wrong trees. Please leave it at that.
/P
I'm sure it wasn't a rash decision; Thorne has long held a rep for being coolheaded in the face of flaming. However, this is the first two sentences of the announcement: "As long as Faeriewylde has been open, we have maintained a policy where tasteful nudity of faeries and innocent nudity is accepted regardless of the character used. Unfortunately, due to some unscrupulous people and wag-tongues on other forums, this policy must now be changed." There aren't too many ways to misconstrue that statement, Peng. If you have more specifics, cool. More power to you. But this is the official statement on the matter. And considering the number of times that I have personally read attacks against the Wylde for 'kiddie porn disguised as stupid faeries' across numerous fora in the Poserverse, it's not a question of pointing fingers. The suspect pool in that event is simply too bloody large. The Vienna Boys Choir doesn't have enough fingers and toes in toto to point at all the potential suspects. The point is that from the -public- info, it seems the Wylde was essentially harassed into changing its policy. If there had been a change in law involved, I have no doubt there would have been a reference, if not a link to said law for people to read. But 'unscrupulous people' and 'wag tongues on other forums' can only be interpreted so many ways....and in the latter, no interpretation needed. No names were named, no sites 'credited', so no way to know who was being talked about. Do I particularly want to see a royal flame war started over this? If I wanted a war, I'd go piss off Legume or give Jack's knickers a twist. Or start something with you and Sean, for that matter. But I do take umbrage at a nice group of people being backstabbed. The Wylders started here, more than anywhere else. They were harassed and TOS'ed until they took their toys and started their own thing. You know, like a few very vocal groups of people said they should. And the Crusade continued, albiet at a much lower volume. As we don't know who the unscrupulous people are, they could be anyone from forumites to those who heard about this place to post KP to local prosecutors looking for a quicky case to get elected by the church crowd on. In any event, it is backstabbing. That may be the way of the modern business model, and hench the world (so far too many think), but that does not make it right or ethical.
>> Or start something with you and Sean
Hey, I'm in agreement with you on this one, okay? LOL
I find this whole thing such a freaking non-issue, and yet we keep pounding that poor dead horse. And I thoroughly agree that Thorne was hounded out of the various sites while we still seem to think that images of torturing women, even having things in the MP and the freebies of restraints that use women in the models just because they're women, are perfectly acceptable.
And that's not trashing sites like Rotica or Raunchy Minds. I belong to both, and I appreciate the artwork done at both. Nor am I trashing the freebie makers and merchants here who provide users with such lovely bondage equipment and latex outfits. But somehow the image of a naked child fills us with such fear and loathing. Yeah, right.
It's such a hypocritical standpoint, but it seems to be so deeply imbedded in our little Poserverse that it would take a few stick of high quality dynamite to coerce it loose. And it's pretty sad when we cant tell the difference between real porn and the things we suspect might be porn.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
I was thinking about this topic long into the day yesterday and ya know I'm a bit confused. I've seen child nudity in a couple of films lately. What in the heck is the difference? I can't recall what one film was, but one I remember distinctly. It was The Pacifier with Vin Diesel. Now never mind the fact that it was a horrible movie with only a few good lines.
Vin is in charge of sitting 5 kids while thier mother is away. At one point the second to youngest - perhaps about 3 yrs old gets left in the ball pit at a childrens play place. Vin pulls him out and the child is without lower apparel. The play place staff says something about the child being nude in the balls. Child is passed over to the staff (still naked on his bottom) while Vin has to fish the lost diaper out of it the pit. At one point during the passing you clearly see the boy childs genitals.
So I have to say I think this law stuff is garbage. Why is it ok to show a REAL live childs genitals, when the situation is clearly NOT sexual - yet it is never ok regardless of situation to show a 3D childs genitals. Forget the genitals for a second, even their butt crack.....
Bart Simpson showed his in the recent movie. Why is it ok to show cartoon child "hip area", but not 3D. Is 3D ruled by some law that no other form of art is ruled by?
Is the real problem that we 3D artists are just such ghastly perverts that special laws need to be made for us alone? Maybe, maybe left to our own devices we would be reduced to a caveman sort of state and we need this sort of guidance.
Or it's that every posting site is a free for all. Perhaps we will all see the end of our arguements when a site comes along that DOES NOT allow free posting into galleries. Where images are moderated upon upload and only tasteful art (obviously up to the discretion of the owner) is allowed. Even then, there will be some idiot who complains about a childs rear - but I'll bet my next pack of huggies that there is nothing preventing someone from setting this type of site up - nor are there any laws that would force it down IF all art was tasteful.
There really are two sides to this argument and those that fail to see both sides (people from either side) are a big part of the problem within this community.
I am: aka Velocity3d
Quote - Once a troll, always a troll, eh Pengy ?
It's seriously not a troll, and the point is simple: There is a vast difference between saying how someone should run their website, and actually running one yourself. Demanding that others show "any spine" is easy to say, and very tough to do. You get to deal with a vast array of opinions and laws, concerning concepts that are subjective at best, capricious at worst... and across four levels of law: local, state/provincial, national, and international.
So... until/unless you're willing to take on some of the burden yourself, I invite you to at least not so casually impugn the character and integrity of the other folks in this little realm who do.
FWIW, the editing I did do (long before you arrived to read it) was simply a redaction of my saying that yes they did make up their minds, so deal with it (in response to your asking why they apparently couldn't). Ask the Mods to verify that if you like... I don't mind.
--
Dale:
Quote - But this is the official statement on the matter.
Understood, but please understand that I refuse to discuss or debate any reasons as to why.
Quote - But I do take umbrage at a nice group of people being backstabbed. The Wylders started here, more than anywhere else. They were harassed and TOS'ed until they took their toys and started their own thing
PoserPros. It started from there, not here. :)
Quote - That may be the way of the modern business model, and hench the world (so far too many think), but that does not make it right or ethical.
I agree.
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Quote - Hey, I'm in agreement with you on this one, okay?
Count me in as well.
--
/P
Oh my, the tired old: "Unless you are in EXACTLY the same situation you aren't allowed to have an opinion".
Which is of course complete rubbish.
At least Thorne tried, I acknowledge that.
Nethertheless I think his members deserve better than just a short cryptic note.
Actually what disappoints me most is that there is not a single discussion over there.
That's why even if I could run my own forum, I highly doubt that I would want to.
The web itself is fantastically anti-authoritan and anarchic, but web-forums are per definitionem little fascist dictatorships.
Some more benevolent than others, but dictatorships nonetheless.
Y'know, I dont know what's worse: (1) to have an issue like this in the first place or (2) be told there's all this discussion going on behind our collective backs that we're not privy to but seems to be important enough to sway the direction of the community overall, even though we cant know what it is because we're not the Poser Insiders who lives are one gigantic NDA.
If the issue is important enough to debate like this, the very last thing I think of any of us want to hear is "well, you just have to trust me on this". Sorry, no. If someone knows something that would enlighten us as a community as to why this nonsense is happening, then it would serve the community as a whole for that knowledge to be shared so that maybe, y'know, we could actually do something about it. No, we dont need to know every little detail, but enough solid information that it can stop the finger pointing.
But I gather that's not about to happen here, huh.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
So unless one has a financial stake in something is the only way one has a voice?
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
The guy pays his own money to host a site as a service to people who aren't required to give him anything in return, I think he can run it any damn way he pleases.
Typical authoritarian thinking.
99% of what a typical forum site consist of is actually user generated content.
THEY are the actual website, not some pretty php frames.
A year ago flickr tried to censor their german members because of some inane local child protection laws.
The backlash was MASSIVE.
Why ?
Because the Flickr members acted like mature adults who were aware that THEY were the actual site, not the folks who registered the domain.
Anyone can register a domain and download some forum software these days.
But without members who fill that forum with content he will have NOTHING.
But members of poser forums act like they are just tolerated guests, eternally gratefull and ready to be pushed around anytime like unruly schoolchildren.
Sorry, but to me a forum is not a "private propety".
To me it's what "the commons" are in the real world.
The owner deserves a certain amount of gratefullness for providing the place, but his rights are limited as long as it is open to the public.
Especially if you using a forum to make $$$.
If you just make a website for your own amusement, then yes, you deserve to be left alone and no hacker defacing your site or stealing your content and you have the right to do with it whatever you please.
But if you make a forum where the members do all the work, then yes, the members deserve respect, because even if they don't directly pay for the
hosting bills, they ARE the actual forum.
Damn it, the internet is such a wonderfull oportuntity to finally be FREE, and folks IMMEDIATELY apply the same old sh*tty ideas of "ownership" and "rules" and "hirarchies" that make the real world such a miserable place to live in for anyone but the super-rich.
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This is true.
And that cave man, drawing his stick figures on the walls, whatever was he thinking?
Well, I suppose the thread is redirected suficiently?
.
A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY