Virtual Taverns have been here and axed a couple of times that I remember also.

Quote - Virtual Taverns have been here and axed a couple of times that I remember also.

:lol:  too many brawls?

Here I was, thinking that virtual libations might help some of the folks around here get the apparently very real sticks out.

Hope that was not meant at me for pointing out what has been done and for reasons that only the PTB have got rid of it.

Just my two cents from years of being a member here. Let's see... "Joined 23 Mar 2000" should be worth something, right?

Anyway, the "new" rules seem to be an extension of the existing rules, which are:

1. You CAN NOT create a new thread talking about your own product, in any forum other than the Product Showcase Forum. This is called a "commercial posting".
   The new rules state you can't post a message about your own products in outside stores.

1a) Talking about your own product, even answering someone's question is considered bad form and some of the mods will delete the posting as being "commercial".
As an example, if someone asks "Where can I get a cool X?" and you reply, "Well, I have a X in my store!", a mod may delete it and give you a warning. (This happened to me a few times, even when my answer was to go to my marketplace here at Renderosity. As an aside, I wonder if my "verbal warnings" ever expire or if they're part of my permanent record!)

1. The forums have ALWAYS allowed people to say "Check out this cool X made by someone else". This is not a commercial posting, but a "informing the greater community of a new item that's available" posting.

So, while Stonemason can't announce his new product here at Renderosity (using him as a recent example), it is perfectly within the rules for other people to announce it and even post links to it over at DAZ.

Personally, I think this goes against the spirit of both the "no advertising" rule and the "no links to outside stores" rules, but that's just me. If the rule is "no advertising", then people shouldn't be allowed to post links to product. Although the creator of the product isn't promoting his own item, he's certainly getting attention and advertising... and probably a bunch of new sales.

And if the rule is "no links to outside stores", then ALL links, no matter who posts them should be removed... including links to DAZ and Smith Micro.

The same is true for free items: you can make a freebie and announce your creation in the Freebie Forum. If you post your message in the Poser Forum, someone may complain about the "spam" message you posted.
Yet people are free to post a "look at this cool freebie made by artist X" message without it being considered "spam". Like product announcements, isn't this still advertising?

I've wondered why self-promotion is "bad" advertising, but getting other people to promote your items is acceptable. Again, no matter who creates the message thread, the link to your item is still getting posted in the forums.

No, just in general... Lots of people in all the Forums are way too uptight.

Had to make sure, my tounge was getting sore from bitting it untill I knew for sure. LOL.

I was surprised the Stonemason thread was allowed.. It read as a commercial more than a heads up. I have seen that a little more around here, the little I've be around lately. I guess it's not what is promoted but how or who post it?

Now I don't mind free Items posted here. It's part of giving back to the community. I don't like having to post in just the freebie forum and have everyone DL it just because they DL everything. My last freebie was my Dynamic Jersey dress,( long before the MP one and different, think hockey jersey) I posted it here so only the ones that really wanted it and could use it in Poser could IM me for it. Can't do that now so I don't bother anymore with freebies, no great loss, just special requests when I have time.

Things may change, some want another Daz forum here to advertise, some of us are here because it's not that way, I've been around for many years now and have seen it change as often as the tides. I won't be surprised to see another one or two or three or.........LOL.

Edited for typing errors, No feeling in half of one hand and learning how to type all over again. LOL.

I don't get why it's such a bad thing for a creator of an item to post a link to it here within the forums of a site that engages in sales of poser content??????
Also, I find it rather unrealistic to have a hobby that heavily depends on content from other commercial sources, use a forum from one of the commercial sites, and then resent that products are being advertised.

It's a bit like walking into a department store during christmas time, walking by a cosmetics counter and getting a whiff of fragrance, and then getting all upset that they're advertising fragrance where it's being sold.

Is that like some sort of a lack of common sense?

I'm not sure what the exact rule reads. no advertizing or no external links, or no product promotions or what not. I agree about what BlackSpartan is saying about uptightness.

One thing that I did notice is that many people whom are most vocal in the forums and want to drive the diorection of the site don't seem to be the ones whom are spending money here. At least they are not the majority. So I suppose many forumites don't participate in or even resent the commercial aspect of it... but yet choose to come to a commercial site to talk about their hobby. A site and forum which is provided to them at the cost of those whom do buy stuff. If there wasn't a commercial component to it, they wouldn't have a place to come to!!! But yet somehow the commercial aspect of it gets villified. Sheesh! 
My brain is going to get a divide by zero (common sense) error here!

Don't advertize your commercial product, Don't restrict commercial use of your freebies, don't advertize someone else's commercial work, talking about your upcoming marketplace piece or god forbid a thread turining into a marketplace product WIP is bad form; don't get excited about a commercial release and post a link to it....

Why don't people whom hate commercial aspect of it get themselves a private commercial free bulletin board. Maybe the cost, time and efforts of keeping one up will be a rude awakening. But then again, I see some of the same people whom complain about the commercial aspect of it saying they want to be able to use freebies around here to make a few bucks for themselves, and resent the effort of having to keep track of copyrights. What is that? Jealousy? Envy? Case give it to memememe because if someone else got it I should have it tooo, and screw whomever I take advantage of in the process?

Sure, the rules get all mangled in a bass ackwards manner and end up contradicting one another when we hap-hazardly try to accomodate whomever is screaming the loudest at the moment... and when we try to accomodate people's nonsensical emotional reactions.

Quote - I was surprised the Stonemason thread was allowed.. It read as a commercial more than a heads up. I have seen that a little more around here, the little I've be around lately. I guess it's not what is promoted but how or who post it?

So, of you love particular creators work and are excited about a product that just came out, you can't post about it?
You can only post about a product when you want to have a negative rant about it?
Or, you can post about programs and utilities (Wardrobe Wizard, crossdresser, Faceshop Pro etc etc...) but not about content?

So, next time I see a piece I really love and want to strike up a conversation about it, I better post 'gosh, did you see such and such product' it's a big pile of crap! Because, hey, saying something positive about a piece of content is this terrible commercial advertizing plug. Criticizing, biatching and moaning about everything, that's just business as usual.

sigh some major cases of commerce-phobia around here. I mean look around your screens people, this is a commercial site. If you want to be in a commerce/commercial free environment, this or any other place engaged in sales of content is not a kind of a place that is likely to fulfill your desire for commercial free environment, and it's pretty unrealistic to have that expectation.  Like walking into a mall, and like OMG, getting mad that there are product advertizing kiosks in the food court. I wanna eat without a commercial in my face... Well, then don't go to a mall food court to have lunch!!!!! sigh

LOL, I better go to sleep.... I don't think this kind of an attitude is ever going to make a lot of sense to me.

I know!!!!!   :m_laugh:

Next time when I really like a product, I'll make a banner for it, and put a link to it in my sig..... cuz, if I talk about it outright, I may get in trouble. If I put it in the sig, with my post count, it'll get a lot more exposure anyway.
Cuz, that magic line that separates the sig from the actual post is the MAJOR commercials allowed vs. Commercials definately not allowed barrier.

**Between sig lines, top bar and sidebar ads, forums here are full of advertizing!
**But god forbid we actually have a thread talking about a product or giving an occasional instruction about it, or talks about the creation process and shows a few pics... now, that's baaaaad! [insert wagging finger emoticon here] Baaad baaaaad commercial if a vendor talks about their own product in the space between a post header and a sig line. :m_confused2:

I think banging my head against the wall will be much more productive activity then trying to make sense out of commerce-phobia around here. If it's to the right of my screen, it's okay, if it's at the top, it;s okay, if it's below a dotted line, it's okay, if it's above the dashed line and below the dotted line to the right of the little picture, then it's not fine, and if you write it in a small print on a postage stamp....

Is it me or has the whole world gone crazy? - Don't answer that!
:m_lecture:
:m_hide:

I am serious about this.

My questions are not about OT threads, asking questions, tutorials, etc.

Everyone here knows exactly the type of threads I am referring to, which are being allowed. And I provided links to such examples initially. Many of the threads, that are being allowed, are not discussion. They are advert announcements. And many seem to be slipping through the cracks.

Many people don't mind biased rules that don't apply to them, even if they apply to someone else.

We are all members. Content creators are't sub-members. There is no difference between a promotion post by a creator versus a fan. A thread is a thread. A post is a post.

Here was the initial question rephrased:

***Why are there separate forum rules for members that are content creators, when the exact same types of posts, that the rules are wanting to prevent, are allowed by anyone else? 

JenX, which staff member is that person who makes these final decisions?

I think someone needs a Midol.

I was agreeing with the valid points that JHoagland was saying, but since you quoted me I'll take it that your attack is at me.

First, I doubt you have spent what I have here in the MP. Sorry to burst your bubble but It takes a rare talen for me to be jealous about anything and it is so rare that I DL any freebie that I don't give a flying ( insert any 4letter word here or rod).

Second a post that list everything in a product in the original post seems more an advert than a heads up. I'm sure most like me like the heads up posts. Sometimes the News letters are late or not at all. Same as the freebie post like what Acadia posts. They are quick, short and to the point.

Third, I don't go around and complain about others creations. I did show what that Daz Dragon loked like in Poser so other Poser users could see what it really looked like and not the BS that Daz marketing was giving, BTW they change the promo wording after that, but, I also showed what it looked like in an app that could take advantage of it. That part was ignored by many including Daz head honchos, OH well. Still outside of that one instance, I don't rip anyones stuff.

Fourth. "Why don't people whom hate commercial aspect of it get themselves a private commercial free bulletin board."

I could say the same thing, " why don't people whom want commercial aspect of it get themselves a bulletin board."
Oh wait , they do have one, the Merchants Product forum. Yes I know rules have been changed but it's a good place to start with.

Lastly, "Sure, the rules get all mangled in a bass ackwards manner and end up contradicting one another when we hap-hazardly try to accomodate whomever is screaming the loudest at the moment... "

Aaah, wouldn't that be you? Assumptions, accusations, insults and major rant?

I had thought I was being quite civil with my posts without malice to anyone and was rewarded with insults. I'll try not to make that mistake again.

That brings up a good point. The issue is about posting, not reading. People can skip over anything they want, of course. But does it matter who the author is when deciding who can post and who can't?

Attached Link: Scroll to the bottom to see the admin.

There is no one staff member.  All policy changes are discussed and decided by our Admin.  Who would be Stacey, Jenifer, Debbie, Karen, and Jani.

Note:  This is not me being facetious, this is me before coffee....

A looooooooooong time ago (long ago enough that I remember being so frustrated with Poser that I'd uninstall it on at least a weekly basis), when I was but a newb, the forum was rampant with advertisement.  We members (since you're not born a moderator, you volunteer for this job after you let go of your last shred of sanity) complained, and the rule was set...No advertising in the Poser forum or gallery.  (And the masses cried "w00t!!"  j/k)  In my tenure as a moderator, I've moved over 100 posts...whether to the Marketplace forum, the Contest Announcement forum, Marketplace Customer Service, or even the Copyright forum.  Some do it by accident, some do it on purpose.
As for OT posts....geez, guys, lighten up.  Sure, there's a point in time when we need to curb the OTness, but, if you look at the forum, 95% of the posts here are 100% poser related AND haven't been hijacked yet.  We all NEED a little OT in our life once in a while to get out of our rut, loosen up a bit, and maybe, I don't know, get to know one another! 

And, now, I go get my coffee.  From Dunkin Donuts, because my carafe is broken sniffle  tear

>> Second a post that list everything in a product in the original post seems more an advert than a heads up. I'm sure most like me like the heads up posts.

But that's not the point. The point is who gets to write the heads up post. If all I'm saying in a post is "Hey, I have a new product out available at ___________. Check it out!", how would that be so very different from Anton writing, "Hey, Sean has a new product available at ____________. Check it out!"? That's the issue here.

There's also a difference between "Hey, X has a new product available at ____" and "HOMG, did you SEE that new (insert vendor name here) character/prop/texture/light/etc????  How does he/she/they do that????"

OK, I'm another trying to get enough Coffee into me before I have to dig myself out of a big snow drift just to get to the snow blower. Beware of bad mood and  or typing errors. LOL.

SwanMartin, I'm going to guess that most people here are smart enough to know the difference between a quick heads up post about something from a marketing attempt. Many are about updates that that is the only way we find out about them. Others are about something that the community has been waiting for like Poser SR's, V4's, the winning lottery numbers that I will let you have, for a price.

Now the way you present your last point. There is no difference. That sounds like friends promoting friends just as a loophole because they can. There's that gray area raising it's head again. I'm glad I'm not a Mod, There is a feel to how things are writen.

I understand what Anton was asking. I also understand why those that have not been here as long as many of us have and never saw what it was like. Then there are those that just want another way to promote themselves.

I noticed in the Vue forum they have a stickied product promotion thread. I never had a chance to look into it but that might be a solution here. ust a thought.

Well, that snow drift isn't going away by itself so I will catch you all later if it doesn't kill me.

I don't mean to get off on a rant here....

No, wait, yes I do.

I'm looking at the thread, and I'm a bit confused.

If we, the Merchants place an obviously commercial thread for a new product, then we should put it in a place that no one in their right minds would go(the same layer of Heck as TV commercials), but if my little friend Destiny(not a real person) posts the same thread anywhere else, that's fine.

Do I have this right?

What's to stop people from hiring the Mongol Hordes of Advertising to drop in and go nuts?

But, if I post something not available at the RMP, I get deleted for that, too.

The idea therefore becomes that there must not be a world outside Renderosity, or that commercialism doesn't exist beyond the Marketplace forum/gallery.

I don't exist in a vaccuum, and neither do the rest of you. Everything we do is credited, so our galleries become an advertisement for the things we use.

Our entire lives in western society are commercials, from the cologne Anton wears, to the jeans Conniekat's wearing, the restaraunt Jen eats at, to the car I drive. If we all are using something, someone else will too, because of it.

Shall we remove all those things from the face of Renderosity as well?

So what happens if I post an image in my gallery that consists of nothing but things I've made myself, and put on-sale at... Say 3DArena?

Shall I not credit it?

For the record, I do have items onsale, but not at 3DA. Shawn was convienient, and most of the Poserverse has heard of 3DA, at the very least. Safe for an example.

Most of those items await onsale dates here, as well.

I won't mention which ones, nor where they might be found. A dilligent search would turn them up easily.

However, it seems to me that a [commercial] tag would make more sense than banishing us to Heck(and obscurity) for being a vendor.

I'm gonna get off my soapbox now, and let you get back to your day.

Now that was a commercial hidden in a rant that is trying to blow things out of proportion.

Quote -
sigh some major cases of commerce-phobia around here.

I wouldn't say that exactly... I mean, when someone asks about finding this or that item or prop, the barrage of replies usually don't include freebies, but a horde of merchies and friends of merchies pointing to for-sale items. More like commerciophilia at times... 

Now, this is not to say that I agree or disagree with what the PTB are trying to do. I just wish it were a little less complex.

/P

In all fairness, the original rule was around because you couldn't ask a question or post a tip without it being drowned out of the forum with commercial posts.  That's why we made the MP forum in the first place.  Well, that was before I came on staff, but still.

Quote - There's also a difference between "Hey, X has a new product available at ____" and "HOMG, did you SEE that new (insert vendor name here) character/prop/texture/light/etc????  How does he/she/they do that????"

Heh - only about as different as someone declaring that forty angels can dance on the head of a pin he built, and someone else declaring that he just saw forty-two do it on his buddy's product, but wants to know how. ;)

/P

Well, we can always assume that every poster has ulterior motives and try to stifle everyone's posting abilities, or we can REMAIN somewhat free with the posting. 
Sorry, but like I said before, if we get rid of any and all potentially commercial posts, soon we wont' be able to even link to Poser, because it's a for-purchase item.  So, why don't we use some common sense here, folks?  Or is it that time of the year that we have to be offended at every little thing someone else does, simply for the sake of argument?  If it is, you're gonna have to let me mark it on my calendar next year...and I'll take a vacation, LOL.

Quote - In all fairness, the original rule was around because you couldn't ask a question or post a tip without it being drowned out of the forum with commercial posts.  That's why we made the MP forum in the first place.  Well, that was before I came on staff, but still.

Oh, I know - I saw it contort itself into its current mess a long-arsed time ago. Road To Hell Pavement and all that.

Personally, there is no easy solution - we all know that.

The DAZ Commons forum was named "The Commons" for a reason. Just like The Commons in any college, one could hang out, discuss anything, post handbills, protest whatever... and, well, whatever comes to mind. Just don't expect anything serious out of anything you do in there. Tech questions had their own home. WIP discussion had its own home. And etc.

Problem is, when you omit a forum topic that handles common bits and bobs, the chit-chat, and the "hey - I built this! go take a peek and maybe spend a little on it!" posts? Well, you get what we have here - folks settling in to discuss anything but Poser in the Poser forum. Sucks but true. And, it ends up spawning complex and convoluted rules, or rules that make no sense (like the one Anton rails against right now).

All that said, Renderosity has a conundrum on its hands - they're a commercial site, first and foremost. They have their bottom line to protect. But... they also want to be a community, so that have to present that facade as well. Normally, it's pretty easy to do both, but the PTB wanted to do it with one hand tied behind its collective back by omitting a common gathering area. So... you get what we have now.

I know why they did it. They wanted to avoid having to do the dirty work of keeping the blood and muck out of an area that can get boisterous at times... after all, on one hand they can have a semi-common area to chit-chat, but on the other they can point to the lack of one as justification to lock any thread that gets out-of-hand.

I like the Renderotica (and the near-comatose PoserPros) fora rules better: If it gets out of hand, move it to the flame bucket forum and be done with it. This means you only have to lock and/or delete the really nasty/libelous/illegal stuff, letting the membership take on some responsibility to police themselves. Of course, neither one are nearly as obsessed with a shiny corporate image, no?

/P

Quote - So, why don't we use some common sense here, folks?  Or is it that time of the year that we have to be offended at every little thing someone else does, simply for the sake of argument?

Heh - I think you're missing what I'm getting at. I'm not really arguing for or against - I'm just sounding out thoughts on why it came to pass. I know the how, who, and what, and where... it's the 'why' that niggles me.

/P

Whatever you say, Tom.  I understand where you AND Anton are coming from.  I do.  However, it's from a place that twisted the rules into what it's not.  Apparently, from what I'm reading, you guys don't think that we seem to care about merchants getting around the no commercial thing by getting buddies or even hiring people to do it....trust me, we do.  We watch for patterns, not just here but other sites as well, on people posting commercial-style posts.  People get reprimanded, threads get deleted. 
However, we have to walk a fine line.  Do we go whole-hog and not let anyone post anything that might remotely be considered commercial, just to placate a handful of people, or do we do our job and monitor what IS posted? 
I'm gonna be honest.  I'd rather be playing Guild Wars right now than answering questions in the forum.  This is not a full-time job for me.  However, I do see this as something that needs to be addressed and not ignored.  I know that I'm not the only staff member reading this, and it would be redundant for everyone on the team to hop in and give their 2cents, because then this would be all "Oh, this is us vs. them!!!111!!!!!"  But, I truly think that you guys are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. 
Life's never going to be fair.  Sometimes, something's going to be in your favor.  Sometimes, things aren't.  Like I tell the kids on my basketball team, build a bridge, and get over it ;)

Also, I know that, after my last post, someone's going to say "But you're not doing your job, there are x number of posts with commercial references!!!!"

It's ridiculously easy to sitemail me and send me a link.   I can't guarantee that it will be taken care of to your satisfaction, but any and all concerns will be looked at and given thought, and even staff discussion.

edit

We can't POSSIBLY read every single post in the forum, nor see every SINGLE image AND image comment in the gallery.  It is completely impossible, and Rendo would need MUCH more manpower.

Quote - Now that was a commercial hidden in a rant that is trying to blow things out of proportion.

I was again dragging the thing to it's most exaggerated extreme.

It does seem like a little streamlining in the rules department might be in order though, Jen&co. A little clarity and thought, and this entire thread could have been avoided, methinks.

:)

Most of us do appreciate your efforts. /bow

>> Now the way you present your last point. There is no difference. That sounds like friends promoting friends just as a loophole because they can.

... which I believe was Anton's original point.

Or is it that time of the year that we have to be offended at every little thing someone else does, simply for the sake of argument? *

I believe that's in October. :-)

"But you're not doing your job, there are x number of posts with commercial references!!!!"

Happy now?

I thought it was September that was the bad month or did that change too. Well I for one, and you know this is going to hurt me to say, think the mods have been pretty good at keeping it at an even flow.

You tell anyone I agreed with what a mod has said and I will deny everything. 

Quote - "But you're not doing your job, there are x number of posts with commercial references!!!!"

Happy now?

I thought it was September that was the bad month or did that change too. Well I for one, and you know this is going to hurt me to say, think the mods have been pretty good at keeping it at an even flow.

You tell anyone I agreed with what a mod has said and I will deny everything. 

I'm absolutely happy now.  Oh, and no worries, I won't bring it up, as long as the proper offering of Bawls and Mac and Cheese is left on my doorstep :lol:  j/k

Quote -

Or is it that time of the year that we have to be offended at every little thing someone else does, simply for the sake of argument? *

I believe that's in October. :-)

Well, son of a crap.  I'll just have to build a bunker and hide in October, because I'm using up all of my vacay days in May/June, LOL.

Quote -

Most of us do appreciate your efforts. /bow

I'm going to be quite honest, I'm making very little effort, because it's not my decision ;)  Admin has been notified, there's a discussion going on, I'm simply attempting to give you guys a sense that you're being listened to, because you are.  It may not seem like it when we or the Admin go off and discuss things, because it's not instantaneous, but listen we do.  The discussions here of late, as much as people seem irate, are refreshingly calm and cool.

So, that makes me wonder....did we all kinda grow up, or are you guys just trying to keep me from posting Fall Out Boy lyrics in retaliation?  (totally kidding.)

Quote - > Quote -

sigh some major cases of commerce-phobia around here.

I wouldn't say that exactly... I mean, when someone asks about finding this or that item or prop, the barrage of replies usually don't include freebies, but a horde of merchies and friends of merchies pointing to for-sale items. More like commerciophilia at times... 

Now, this is not to say that I agree or disagree with what the PTB are trying to do. I just wish it were a little less complex.

Oh, I hear ya. I can give you my reasons, and opinion about it.
First I wanna preface this that when i search for desired content I use one of the search engines, whatever3d.com that lists freebies and commetcial pieces.

I think commercial pieces come to the front for several reasons:

One, they're often more visible and better organized.
Two, they are very often of better quality then freebies. (Not all of them, but there's a significant percentage) There is a fair amount of crappy product even in commercial pieces. In freebies, it's magnified.
Three, trying to find, unzip, clean up directories and actually manage freebies - I personally find overly time consuming and nightmareish. By the time I get done finding, unzipping and making sure any freebies actualy work, most of my free time for the task is gone.  Merchant packs are usually more organized and concisely packed.

Personally, I don't use a whole lot of freebies, mostly for the above reasons, so when someone asks about a piece, I'm more likely to be familiar with a commercial product then with freestuff, and offer my answers accordingly.

Now, if Stonemason and few other of my favorite vendors offered their stuff as freebies, I'd be a lot more excited about more freebies. Much like I get super excited about Apollo, and Apollo is FREE! I'm excited about Apollo because it's a great quality product/piece... whatever you wanna call it. Not because he's free or not free.

As a hobby aspect of 3D, it's much like any other hobby I ever had... most of the things you need for the hobby, you end up buying them. Sports, crafts, sewing, dioramas, jewelry, scrapbooking, beads, whatever the hobby is, there's always something for it that you have to buy to engage in it. And sometimes you get to share things with other people, and don't have to buy stuff. A nice bonus.

*Now the way you present your last point. There is no difference. That sounds like friends promoting friends just as a loophole because they can.

*Jut as a matter of setting the record straight, when I made a post about stonemason's latest product, it's not the case of buddies promoting each other. As much as I'd love to be so fortunate to be his buddy, I'm no more then just a big fan of his work. The guy makes most amazing architectural pieces, and I'm a fan of architectural props... from Stonemason to Faveral to DarkAnvil to medievalworlds and many others. Plus, he made a piece that very much illustrates the areas where I grew up, something very near and dear to me.

If there's anything I'd be guilty of by making that post it would be of kissing up to stonemason, and pushing the envelope because I didn't like the latest no outside links in product forum rule, and partially thought, well, that's not allowed, but I'm allowed to post about it dead smack in the middle of poser forum as a fan. Go figure. A subverted attempt at raising the issue.

Definately not the case of someone putting me up to it. Guess what, I act independently, don't need to be put up to things by my friends and mega merchants.

Also, Anton didn't put me up to adding his banner ad to my sig so that every time I post, there's an advertisement to Apollo. I did that one all of my own and in admiration for his work.

Also, Blackhearted didn't put me up to talking about GND, I've been a fan of that figure for a while, and AerySoul didn't put me up to talking about Alice..  (I'm trying to remember what other commercial products I may have mentioned lately... oh, yeah, Dimension 3D tools, Wardrobe Wizard, Hexagon etc.)

If I was promoting my 'buddies' I'd be promoting OKC Design group.
This place: http://www.okcrandy.com/  

What's next? Accusations of a secret cabal?
Yes, there's a secret cabal, I'm in and you're out, and you can't have the decoder ring....
It's mineeee, allll mineeeee.... muaaaaahahahahahaaaaa................. my precioussss.........

:rolleyes:
[Kitty - the lone gunma... ahem  poster]

Quote - Now that was a commercial hidden in a rant ....

And even if it is, what's so bad about it? Seriously? Is he supposed to be feeling guilty and humble for participating in this commercially too? Why should he? Is commerce a bad thing?

I think what's very uncool is your attempting to villify the commercial aspect of poserdom.
It's a big bad commercial... ssssoooo shhhhamefull!  

BlackSpartan, I think you should stand in the corner, kneel on dried corn grains and contemplate your bad behavior.  A commercial... why how dare you!  :rolleyes:

You have definitely misconstrued everything said by anyone who has not whole heartedly agreed with your views.  Even with those that have seen what happened and thus the rule to stop it.

Oh well. Good luck with your Holy Grail quest of total dominance of forum advertising. Just remember to read the instructions first before you pull the pin. You may get what you want and not like it.

I now understand older people when they talk about how younger people think they know better than those who lived though it. LOL. 

Ok, in order to interrupt what looks like might become a fight/argument, I'd like to let you know that I've heard from Admin on this, and, well, here goes:

We appreciate your feedback.  We do listen, we promise.  At this time, we feel that our (staff) dilligence is needed to monitor threads for commercial posting, but a blanket ban on posting anything regarding commercial products is not only not necessary, it would be very heavy-handed.  We will be, as a team, reviewing every potentially commercial thread (obviously blatant commercial threads will be immediately removed and/or deleted, in accordance to the recently changed advertising policies). 
We will also be keeping a close watch on those who may be attempting to circumvent our rules.   Please bear in mind that we draw a line, ad hoc, between outright advertising and informational posts.  You may not agree with where we draw that line, but it is drawn because we do NOT believe that either a blanket ban or an advertising free-for-all is in the best interest of this forum's users.

In short, things will be staying the same, only we will be working harder on OUR end to ensure advertising does not happen in our forum.

And, as always, if you have any further questions, you can always reach admin directly (and faster) by emailing them at Admin@Renderosity.com

Jeni

Quote - You have definitely misconstrued everything said by anyone who has not whole heartedly agreed with your views.  Even with those that have seen what happened and thus the rule to stop it.

Oh well. Good luck with your Holy Grail quest of total dominance of forum advertising. Just remember to read the instructions first before you pull the pin. You may get what you want and not like it.

I now understand older people when they talk about how younger people think they know better than those who lived though it. LOL. 

Quote - Good luck with your Holy Grail quest of total dominance of forum advertising.

:lol: Now look at whom is exaggerating and misconstruing things. :rolleyes:

If you want to shame or judge me for doing something unwise or inappropriate, you need to at least try and not do the very same thing in the sentence that follows. Otherwise you come across as the very thing you accuse me of being.

Young? I'm few months shy of 40, but thanks, I like to be called young. Been around the block in business and in life a lot more then you apparently think I have. Contrary to what you're implying here, not agreeing with your point of view doesn't mean I'm stupid, inexperienced or immature.

Your euphemized patronizing however makes you look like someone whom, in spite of the life experience they boast of, still hasn't learned to not lash out or put down someone they don't agree with.

I on the other hand am ignorant and inexperienced, so I can't possibly carry that much of a blame for temperamental lashing out. Young unruly inexperienced people like us tend to do that. Maybe by the time I get to be your age I'll learn.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Kitty to self - shooting fish in a barrel - not nice]

Right and your rants are what?

Doesn't really mater now, it stays the same. wisdom prevaild.

Hey, guys, can we keep this thread civil, please?  :) 

JenX I appreciate the loosening of the rules and the job you've been doing, thank you.

I admit, I liked it a whole lot better when it was open and a bit of the wild west. Ya never knew what was going to be in the forums each day. The shear number of freebees  was an extraordinary event as a draw.
And sales WERE much better then now because we interacted directly with the Poser community.
Even on dialup I was able to sort through te threads easily.

Consider if you will, the bitching wheel gets the grease, But the vast majority of us back then that WERN'T bitching liked it the way it was. Open, and interesting.

Night :)

Quote - I am serious about this.

My questions are not about OT threads, asking questions, tutorials, etc.

Everyone here knows exactly the type of threads I am referring to, which are being allowed. And I provided links to such examples initially. Many of the threads, that are being allowed, are not discussion. They are advert announcements. And many seem to be slipping through the cracks.

Well I'm going to have to take exception to your choice of words here as you have included/lumped me into this mix. To be honest I wanted input and that was all I was asking for, and I recieved input. It was rather interesting for me to hear what the dislikes were...and I thank those that shared. I did not mention if it would be a freebie or a sale, I did not mention were to get her. You assumed that it was a marketing move, but really I was interested in what peps thought, and that's why I asked. That's why I gave her (for free) to some folks to get their opinions. I hopefully will gain some insight from them.

So is having a banner riding in every one of your posts advertisment?
I could see how some would say, "yes" and how others would say, "no".
Since your banner is here at Rendy, are you offering Apollo through Rendy now? Why not?

If I really wanted input from my morph, where else am I supposed to go and get it? I guess I could go and ask folks at CP (as that's where I sell) but there isn't the amount of traffic there as there is here. I could have asked at DAZ but I kind of consider Rendy my home...maybe time to move, eh?
I am not saying that I am above crossing the subtle line drawn here (by Rendy), okay? I personally think that this decision by Rendy is ultimately going to hurt them more then help them.
But I really just wanted input. And a whole 4 peps actually shared, not the input I was hoping for, but you work with what you got.

I can understand your point of view on this thread. If you wish to respond please do, but don't feel that you need to. If you want to IM then please do as well. You can always just email me at darkedge@sbcglobal.net  I think I understand where you are coming from. I am not interested in a war of words, that is not my thing, nor do I mean to imply that is your choice either.

I wanted input that was all, it was not meant as a marketing move. Could I have achieved the same results with a different method? No doubt.

Anyways that's where I am coming from.
Regards.

Quote - Well, we can always assume that every poster has ulterior motives and try to stifle everyone's posting abilities, or we can REMAIN somewhat free with the posting. 
Sorry, but like I said before, if we get rid of any and all potentially commercial posts, soon we wont' be able to even link to Poser, because it's a for-purchase item.  So, why don't we use some common sense here, folks?  Or is it that time of the year that we have to be offended at every little thing someone else does, simply for the sake of argument?  If it is, you're gonna have to let me mark it on my calendar next year...and I'll take a vacation, LOL.

Go ahead amd mark every Spring and Fall on your Calendar Jen. People with SADD (Seasonal Affectation Depresive Disorder) do this every spring and fall. I thought everyone knew that by now. Also, I'd just like to gloat that I've been keeping my own SADD in check for over a year now. :tt2:

Hey, I'm not saaadddd, I'm just terminally grumpy! :tt2:

Quote - We appreciate your feedback.  We do listen, we promise.  At this time, we feel that our (staff) dilligence is needed to monitor threads for commercial posting,

Nice to hear.

Quote - but a blanket ban on posting anything regarding commercial products is not only not necessary, it would be very heavy-handed. 

You misunderstoof what I was asking. Noone said "Blanket ban"

Quote - We will be, as a team, reviewing every potentially commercial thread (obviously blatant commercial threads will be immediately removed and/or deleted, in accordance to the recently changed advertising policies). 

Nice to hear.

Quote - We will also be keeping a close watch on those who may be attempting to circumvent our rules.  

okay sounds good if it is sincere and not biased.

Quote -  ...we do NOT believe that either a blanket ban or an advertising free-for-all is in the best interest of this forum's users.

I am annoyed you keep saying blanket ban. You are insinuating a request that was not made.

Quote - In short, things will be staying the same, only we will be working harder on OUR end to ensure advertising does not happen in our forum.

Does this include non-discussion announcements?

Quote - And, as always, if you have any further questions, you can always reach admin directly (and faster) by emailing them at Admin@Renderosity.com

Jeni

Noone answered any of my questions. ***

***and not targeting Phantom3d, or anyone else, but are commercial figure WIP posts allowed in the Poser forum again?

More forum rules?  No freebies, no advertising?  Next thing you know we won't be allowed to have advertising banners in our signatures.