Hi all.. About a week and a half ago i was looking through the stats on Anase seeing where my hits are coming from.. and found a site that at first i was kind of proud to see. Linking to my Outcast stories. NOOO problem there :) I bookmarked the site so i could look through it later and moved on.. next day i was going through that same site.. funny the images looked familiar.. very familiar.. awwwwwww shit.. they are my images.. and another artist's Agnes.. Okay.. it's a German site.. I sent out a call for German speakers to help me draft a email to the person to ask them to take the images down. Emailed it .. and got a reply.. Something to the effect.. of can i keep them on my site if i give you credit. I wrote back again with the help of my friends.. saying no please take them off your site as these are mine and i don't want them anywhere but anase.. wrote back again asking same thing.. they are still there I wrote the company that hosts the site asking them to please do something..No response.. Helllllp any ideas for me to get this person to remove my images from the site? I don't know if Agnes is having the same problem or not but I do know i want my images off of that site. the site is http://members.e-media.at/SklavinRoissy/photos.htm Warning it is an adult site Any help would be very appreciated Roissy_Devot@gmx.net owns the site and the only way i can figure out how to get a hold of the hosting company is their feedback page at http://www.e-media.at/home/cover/abo/feedback_choose.asp Storm

hmm..well, i didnt see anything on there that says they are yours. im not doubting you at all, im on your side, but unless you have this documented or something somewhere, i think you're s.o.l. nice pics btw..

http://www.anase.com is MY site where i post MY work.. Nope there isn't anything on that site that says they are mine except for the ones that have my copyright date and name I sign all my pieces.. copyright year -J.Smith

You might want to ask in the copyright forum. Harbinger3d might have some ideas. You might be screwed if Germany doesn't recognize US copyright. Unless you can get a few European members to pay a visit to the offending parties. (Just to talk, of course.)

Instead of debating this, I might suggest we take her at her word (I happen to know the pieces are hers and Agnes), and the most sensible course of action would be to email the parties at the addies Stormrage has specified. A mass emailing would no doubt elicit a reaction from the webmaster. Unless, of course, this is a community that really doesn't CARE if a member's artwork is stolen, and whose agenda is more narrowly focused.... in which case simply ignore this thread altogether. As a matter of record, I would go to bat for anyone here were the shoe on the other foot, despite personal differences. I happen to feel that this issue surpasses any other issues and warrants community solidarity and action.

Veamon, I know Stormrage's art since 1999 and it is HER works posted on this German site. I totally support Dendras on this one. I think we must react when member's artwork is stolen, and I don't care if the artist is member of Renderosity, Renderotica or 3D Commune. This is a copyright violation and it's in everybody's interest if we react. MVHO. June

Stormrage's signature is right on the artwork. This person has been asked, in German, to please take this work down and hasn't done so. Dendras is right. We've seen in the past what a mass outcry from the members of the Poser community can do. Let's support a fellow artist in this. I've sent my emails. Diane

Just to add my voice. What is being said here appears to be true. I reconised quite a few rotica and other images that look familiar. I think every one needs to see if they don't have something of thiers posted there. I've E-mailed to that address a request that the images be removed and that I regognised quite a few.(Yes I checked the E-mail address and its the one the site brings up for contact.) I hope every one responds.

Thank you, neurocyber. This is about all of us adding our voices.

You should find a lawyer that has contacts with the German consulate. Right now, this kind of theft is tough to deal with. In the future, I suspect there will be better international IP laws. Even so, its costly to enforce those laws across an international boundary. You might want to contact the DOJ about it. The real key to this kind of stuff is to protect your data. Put up firewalls, reduce the image size, add watermarks, etc. I use thumbs only at my site. Folks don't like it, but the ones that complain are the ones that want the work for free so they can use it.

I have'nt posted a tenth of what some of you have but I can't just let stuff like this go. It's about doing the right thing.

If Storm says that the images are her's then it is so. Storm has been a trusted member of the Poser community of years. End of discussion on that point. I think I'd send them a bill for 'rental' of the images. Add a stipulation that if the images weren't removed or the bill payed with 15 days it would go to collections. Make the bill high enough, maybe a couple of thousand bucks or so, to give them a real chill. Sometimes just the threat of getting a hit in the pocketbook is enough to get prompt action.

Attached Link: http://agnes26.free.fr

Agnes, I'm glad she did as you asked and the fact that you are OK with a link to your site and credit is fine, but Stormrage specifically said no to the offer of a link and credit, and this person has not removed her work. Storm had someone translate her emails into German, so there should be no misunderstanding. It's fine that she loves people's pictures, but she is posting them in public and that is wrong without permission.

Storm, I just sent you e-mail to Renderotica. Heike

I can't agree with you , Agnes, that "this isn't robbery" just because she's not making money off the images. Storm has told her she is not allowed to post them...THAT makes it stealing. Maybe some of the German speaking members could could post message in German here that all could foward to this person to get the point across. Or, at least provide a little translating aid for Member Stormrage???????

This seems to be a growing problem, I came across a site using one of renderositys previous spotlight artists images as part of a logo yesterday. I've notified the artist since I don't know if the site has permission to the image but considering the emm.... nature of the site I seriously doubt it. Hopefull other members will notify artist if they spot any suspious use of their images.

Stormrage, maybe you could send her the following message: "Sehr geehrte Frau [insert family name here]! Auf Ihrer Internetseite [insert URL here] verfentlichen Sie einige meiner Bilder. Ich habe Ihnen keine Genehmigung erteilt dies zu tun. Dies habe ich Ihnen E-Mails vom [insert E-Mail date here] und [insert E-Mail date here] wiederholt mitgeteilt. Ebenso habe ich Sie gebeten, diese Bilder von Ihrer Internetseite zu entfernen. Ich bitte Sie hier letztmalig, diese UMGEHEND zu entfernen. Sollten Sie dieser Bitte nicht bis zum [insert date here] nachgekommen sein, so werde ich gegebenenfalls weitere Schritte (auch rechtliche) gegen Sie in Erwung ziehen. Mit freundlichen Gren, [insert your name here]" Rough translation: Dear Mrs. ....! On your internetsite you are publishing some of my picture. i haven't granted you the right to do so. this I have told you in E-Mails dated .... and ... Also I have asked you to remove them repeatedly. I now ask you to remove them emidietly. Should you not have done so until ..., I will consider further steps (including legal) against you. With friendly greetings I hope, the additional german letters will show if you copy and paste. Maybe this can be of help to you. To all: The site in question seems to be hosted in Austria, not germany (see ".at"-domain, Germany would be ".de") - Just to let you know Kosmokrat (aka "TheHawk")

Ouh - ho ... this is going to get in the next round ... sorry Jennifer - I was away from ICQ for some days ... but as I see this is going to get right ... I think sending this (good translated) mail to this person is a good step ... if it doesn't work - let's see how the host will handle all those angry emails from Renderosity, 3DCommue and Renderotica-members ... (last warning before I let the wolves out)

I will be sending mail too. I am really grateful for the excellent letter in German, above. Though I live here in Germany, I am anything but fluent in the language yet, and was asking my husband to draft something that we could send. Many many thanks again, Kosmokrat for your help!! Good to see you here too, Schlabber! P.S. I love that here in Germany, every letter, no matter how unpleasant the matter it deals with, ends with friendly greetings!!

well - sparrowheart - the language here is English ... Tja, dat is numal so, wi quasseln hier nunma ka ksche platt - lol For the rest of the folks ... sorry :o)

Watermark your images always. Also keep up with US and international copyright laws. I know all too well what it is like to find my work on someone elses web site. Also conceder displaying your images in a java app or flash app to disable right clicking or the File|SaveAS. Pesonally I display low rez graphics with my company logo screened onto each graphic. That way if someone takes them so be it. Free advertisment. If you become a business then save your high rez images for your clients. Bottom line: If you are allowing access to your galleries which house work you have spent so much time and hard work into... don't forget to lock the back doors :-) winks

Sparrowheart, thanks for your words on my text. But I have to admit one thing: Writing such letters is a big part of my job. And to "friendly greetings": You have to be carefull that such a letter doesn't sound as a threat, wich you can achieve partly by an ending formula. At my job, we can choose between "friendly greetings" and (german) "Hochachtungsvoll) (translated = "with highest regard"), which didn't seem appropiate in this case. Schlabber: Platt? De schall plattdsch schnacken in Kn? Do hepp we ower annere Utdrke vor, her an de Waterkant! (Sorry, hat aber wahrscheinlich ohnehin keiner verstanden - ich kann "Hamborger Platt" zwar sprechen, aber nicht schreiben...) (The paragraph above this was mostly written in a regional german langauge - don't worry if couldn't understand it - most people where I live can't either!Sorry!)

--START QUOTE-- Reply from: Juergen.HASENAUER@rizit.at 06/17/01 14:09 PM Dear Sirs By the reason that I%m not the owner of the side you are refering to nor the owner of the server you%re refering to I feel attacked my selve by this spawn attack. If somebody is making copies of your shit it%s not my problem and i%ll take steps against you. rgds --END QUOTE--

Status: U Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:17:40 +0200 (MEST) From: Roissy_Devot@gmx.net To: tervs@pop.mindspring.com Subject: Re: STOLEN ARTWORK X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Authenticated-Sender: #0009753177@gmx.net X-Authenticated-IP: [213.47.35.65] X-Flags: 0001 > Please remove the stolen artwoek being displayed on this site. hallo, es tut mir sehr LEID das ich euch so vergert habe, es war NICHT meine absicht!! ich war nur jetzt auf urlaub die paar tage und konnte mich deshalb nicht melden. ich mhte euch sehr bitten das ich die fotos beibehalten darf!! sie sind WUNDERSCH und ich habe KEINE schlechten absichten damit! bei AGNES habe ich angefragt und sie hat mir ihre erlaubniss dazu erteilt! ich wde mich sehr freuen wenn ich eure fotos auch ausstellen darf! BITTE es wde mich sehr freuen und ich wollte NIEMANDEN damit verletzten! liebe grse Roissy -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net -- GMX Tipp: Machen Sie Ihr Hobby zu Geld bei unserem Partner 1&1! http://profiseller.de/info/index.php3?ac=OM.PS.PS003K00596T0409a

here's a rough translation via babelfish: hello, it does to me much WRONG which I you in such a way annoyed, it was NOT my intention!! I was on vacation those few meet only now and could not therefore not announce itself. I would like to ask you very which I the photos maintained may!! they are not BEAUTIFUL and I have bad intentions thereby! with AGNES I inquired and her have me their permit-eat in addition given! I would be pleased much if I your photos to also issue may! PLEASE it would make happy me much and I wanted NOBODY thereby hurt! loves greet Roissy -- sorry its not the most legible translation :)

. just leaving a mark here for reference...good luck :)

hi all. Just wanted to jump in and post the info i have on this as well for those interested and thank those who took action and sent letters. I, myself use a translator program i found on the net and have had several emails with Rossy who was out of town during jen's emailing to her and is very sad regarding the incident. Her actions were incorrect and she regrets them, loving the artwork very much. This is a simple case of using common courtesy FIRST. From the correspondence i've gotten from her, it would appear that that the images will be removed in the next day. Hopefully that WILL happen. ::strolls back out the way he came::

"it would appear that that the images will be removed in the next day." THAT remains to be seen. --Dendras (<---terminally cynical)

i hear ya, dendras. ;) we shall see.

Hi, all - a more complete translation (almost, anyway, my first language is neither english nor german), just to be fair to Rossy. She seems to be sincere... Rossy writes : "I am very SORRY that I have offended you so, it was NOT my intention. I just happened to be away on vacation for these last few days, and could not reply [to your mail]. I'm imploring you to let me keep your pictures on the site!!! They are WONDERFUL and I have had NO dark motives [in using them]. I have asked AGNES and she has given me the permission. It would make me very happy if I could also use your pictures. PLEASE, it would make me very happy and I has not been my intention to harm ANYONE." Over to you, Storm - it's your hard work and your decision.

THIS IS SAD THAT THIS HAPPENS, But it is the RISK we take when we make available, Images and downloads to others on the internet.

Easy... she deliberately took what she wanted without asking permission or sending notification or giving credit. No amount of flattery or sweet talk can eliminate the act of theft. Sometimes honest mistakes are made, or a person might not remember where they got a model, but to pillage someone else's website to stock your own isn't an accident, but the modern equivalent of cattle rustling. Carolly

After writing her yet again this time with a detailed list of the images and short to the point email.. She has removed the images and replaced them with Photos by Reinhard Otto I want to thank everyone who offered suggestions and wrote emails asking her to take them down I do appreciate it. I always stand behind you all when this happens to you and I will always continue to do so :) And I do thank you for standing behind me with this Storm

The same goes for me. If anyone at this site had a similar problem I would gladly rush over to help. We are all artists, and despite any personal differences that may exist, we HAVE to put those aside and hang together when it comes to doing the right thing. Period. --Dendras

I have to agree that art should be credited with the artists name so as to clearly denote the creator. However i would also like to point out that artists in traditional mediums would kill to get more exposure of their artwork. Keeping your creations restricted to only a site or two really limits its exposure to the world and potential clients. It could take years to stumble across an artists site on the web and this will only get worse as the amount of sites continues to expand. Whether or not you choose to let others display your work is of course a personal opinion, but art without viewers is not a good thing in my opinion. We need others to view and comment on our work so that we can progess forward and learn. Art is meant to be displayed not hoarded in private collections. RonGC

Ron.. while i agree with you. The art on Anase is not neccessarily for viewing by everyone. I put the site up for my friends to see my work and am glad for those who stumble across the site. but I am not ready to showcase my art. Not yet. Maybe in time.. like when i have time to really concentrate on it again.. but not right now.. S Storm

An KosmoKrat: Jawull, hab ich verstanden! Ich bin zwar in Essen geboren, habe aber 20 Jahre in Niedersachsen gehaust! Nu denn... moin moin! Heike

Storm.... It is after all your creations and yours to do with as you choose. Where it is displayed should be your choice. Your work is quite good and this Anase seems to be a fan. Perhaps a little communication back and forth could promote a new mutual friendship. Part of life is growth, and promoting ourselves is not a bad thing. it gives us the chance to expand our boundries, both personal and inspirational. Best of luck to you and may everything work out for you! with respect, RonGC