"this extremely bullshit! your alpha-map is too smooth, on the tail is no texture, the wings are not goin complain with the touch of color in this pic, where is the blood on the female body? What should this pic express? To me and libussa: NOTHING! it is just amother bad-rendered and with a bad post work not-completed pic of demon dreams... :( " -ChaoSlayer98

It's morons like this that make opening your work to commentary a bad thing... I don't mind criticism at all. But I do mind criticism that is less than constructive. Calling my work "extreme bullshit" is stepping far over the line.

To ChaoSLayer98 & Libussa:

Listen, if you have no CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, do this community a favour and keep your trap shut. As for your points... The tail has no texture because it was added in post--- in other words, it wasn't built yet but I needed to fill that space. I thought I included that detail in the comments but I did that on 3D Commune and inadvertentnly omitted that on Renderosity. There is no blood on the female body because I had to consider that this would be posted publically on Renderosity. The nudity and blood on the demon was "bad" enough. I felt that putting blood on the body might have been too much. And besides, the victim isn't the focal point... I did include blood on the demon because there is blood on the actual texture map for her, so I felt that should be reflected in the image. The blood in the image was done in post as well, just to see what it would look like before I committed it to the texture. The pic expresses nothing because it was never meant to express anything. It's a CONCEPTUAL RENDER that was created to test certain elements... Nothing more... Why do you think I put WIP (Work In Progress) in the title? As I said before, if you have nothing constructive to day, then keep it to yourself. You'll make far fewer enemies that way. You know what is "extreme bullshit?" Your attitude and your intention of stepping all over the work of a first timer... THAT is "extreme bullshit"... I have nothing more to say to you or libussa. Any future comments by either of you will be taken for its face value which is, in my opinion less than WORTHLESS as it is now unless you make it constructive.

'Nuff said...

Nuke

Ignore them, Nuke. I've observed that Trolls target the exceptional renders with their bullshit. Make no mistake, yours was an EXCEPTIONAL piece of work. As such, they may be targeted by no talent, no life, NO MINDS like these. :) Whenever you receive a comment like this, search the gallery for the commenter's pics. Nine times out of ten, he/she will have nothing. Just keep up the GOOD work. Most of us will enjoy it, I promise you. ^_- Greywolf

Yes - there'll always be some folks that critisize simply not constructive - hey that's normal (you simply have to face this fact - just leave it as it is - even don't think about it ... - of course it hurts - but hey - if someone posts a post like that - he/her disqualified him/herself for a serious artist ...) But however - this post belongs to the complaint and debate - section ;-) Keep on rendering :o)

nuke do your self a favour and dont listen to peasents like that in my experience they are jelouse of your talent and they wish they had some there self,i know we all hate being critisesd but since the dawn of time when the first cavedweller put his mark on the cave wall i bet he had someone in the background slaging his work of. People like this are mere trogladites for which art has no true meaning dolly

Lets take a look at this from another perspective, before we start the fucking Renderosity lynch mob rolling again, k? ChaoSlayer98 obviously has some difficulty speaking english, so maybe he used the wrong phrase here. What I think the guy was saying was that the image isnt absolutely perfect as the couple of posts before have glorified it as. "Destiny This is absolutely SUPERB!!!!! I don't usually like this kind of thing, but you have done a truly masterful job with this. Stormi You've definately learned your craft. This is exceptional! Helen Exceptional work.... The theme, compostion, lighting.. all perfect." I completely agree with ChaoSlayer98 in that the pic is far from perfect: the lighting, texture on the woman, and especially the tail could use some work. Maybe all he wanted to say is "come on guys, its not perfect, it could use some work in such and such areas". You can obviously tell that he is having a hard time speaking english so how about giving him a break and not trying to blow this way out of proportion like everyone here at Renderosity has a tendency of doing. Christ, just chill the #%$^ out, you asked for feedback and you got it. If you cant take it then put "Glorified praise and positive feedback only" underneath your next image.

THis dude was banned 2 days ago. I notified an admin that he is back. See the Forum News...I guess that is his M.I., around here. Sooooo...I guess since he isn't supposed to be here, in the first place, it shouldn't bother you. Don't let it get you down. Pop...Pop...Poppi Oh, and to any of those who might be inclined to feel some sympathy for Chaoslayer....Read the thread in the Admin Forum before you make any conclusions.

I don't think ChaoSlayer98's English is bad enough for it to be an excuse for that comment. I volunteer tutoring English to foreign students, and I can't imagine anyone using "extremely bullshit" in place of "I don't like this" or the equivalent. He also calls it a "bad-rendered and with a bad post work not-completed pic", which is pretty straightforward if you ask me. The pic was marked as a WIP anyway, so there's no point in complaining about it not being finished. It sounds more to me like he was frustrated at seeing the praise that Destiny and the other artists left behind and decided to spout off. Nothing personal against you Blackhearted or even ChaoSlayer98, but I agree with Nukem. This was simply degrading criticism and was uncalled for. Just my thoughts, as always. Take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

I'm not supporting him, I'm just asking that we not go and make a huge deal about this as usual. Christ Nukem, you need to calm down before you blow a blood vessel or something. WTF do you care what he thinks anyways? You dont have to justify your art to anyone either. If you dont like his comment then let it go, theres no need to come into the forums and start making a huge fuss over it. I'm sure not every comment on your artwork is going to be exactly what you wanted to hear, but then dont ask for feedback. Feedback comes in the negative and positive varieties. Theres no point to this thread. It seems people post things here just to start arguments. If anything is a Troll, then its this post. Post things like this in complaint and debate.

I'll have to agree with blackhearted on this one. Even though we expect constructive criticism (and deep inside we all want justification that what we are doing is "good"), when we post to public forums like this we either consciously or subconsciously know the ramifications of doing so...and if someone doesn't, then he/she is naive. I personally think that the image is fine, and with more work, it will be an excellent image, but if we are to get heated about the overly negative comments, then perhaps one should also be upset about overly gracious comments. Both are a hindrance to helping/coaching someone to be a refined artist, whatever the medium may be. Bryan

I checked nukem's gallery. That was the only picture he has posted. I sure would hate to see any of our members be discouraged from posting by someone like Chaoslayer. The guy is not supposed to even be here, for pity sake. Does that mean nothing? If anyone had remarked like that on MY first post, here....Well, I would have been angry maybe hurt, at first...Second...I would have looked for THEIR gallery....Not finding one, I would have done a search for the member name, to see if they had done similar things to others, etc. When we allow comments, we must remember...that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you may think is the most awesome stuff you've ever done may be "mediocre" to someone who is into a different style. However, there was no call for the outright hostility in Chaoslayer's remarks. No one should have their art called "bullshit". Pop...pop...Poppi

sorry for that, guys! Really! but I don't like Poser @ all, because it seems to me that it has become too easy to create characters I love demons at all and especially such succubi-likes, but it is not an art to create such things I think If I am wrong, please tell me! I never really worked with Poser so may I made a big mistake with that criticism I for myself try to hold on at traditional art and I think there has to be a very high skill level to create for me: to model characters, especially humans some Poser user are really great, like Il Geco eg, but I got the impression that most of them are only using other-mans stuff, putting it with their minds together, adding some other poses and/or clothes, render it, draw some own hair and put their copyrights under the pic I think that cannot be art, except for beginners in the 3d area the word "bullshit" shouldn't be used as an offence or something like that It just expresses my deeply dislike against Poser and not against you, NUKEM! I am really sorry for that misunderstanding If you want to use poser, so just do it I think the best results are reachable with the main concentration on the textures in Poser Nukem, if have another 3D-program, just combine them maybe I could do a picture for you or just complete one of yours, to give me the chance to hold my account and my honor on renderosity I am really interested in working together with other artists It can only increase the skills so for now I hope I convinced you and, of course, RCOOK who watches me with every word PS: It would just be a great gesture from your side, NUKEM, if you trust me one more time! :

A genuine artist would never make a criticism in that way. We know that criticism means constructive, helpful, like, I would do this or that if it were me doing the pic. Comments like these come from people who are jealous because they can't do it themselves and have no talent. You know the type. They lift themselves up by dragging others down. They were probably bullies in elementary school too, and probably still pissed off about having substandard genitals.

Sometimes the manners around these parts are like a pig slop yahoo ranch full of toothless hillbillies that just had too many bottles of moonshine, not artists that create beauty and inspire one another and are here as a community of fine talents. This IS supposed to be a somewhat professional site, not a spitoon; okay, so nukem may be a bit upset, artists are a sensitive bunch, especially when they get told their work is extreme bullshit. Maybe at times it does seem like we honeybunny each other a little too much in the galleries, but maybe that is also because we DO know ho easy it IS to kill artists' inspirations, and is that what we wish to have happen?? This is a place for art, the gallery should have some form of etiquette, when one goes to an art gallery they may NOT like many works, I know I haven't, but one does not take out shit and squeeze it or rub it all over a painting and say that is blarney and stinks! Where's the manners and professionalism that is so prevalent in the rest of this site all over? But what really bothers me in this place is that when someone does get upset about their pride being hurt or stress they feel bad about something they feel was "uncalled" for and even when they may have the slightest point, who gets shafted? THEY DO!! So, you folks telling me only the ones that bash others can complain all they want, while continuing to bash?? There's something wrong here, really, there truly is, no wonder most people are too afraid to speak up that are sensitive. One has to be afraid to say anything even when they have a valid gripe or they might tarnish the poor trolls' persona, and it's funny how excuses are always found for a trolls' behaviours but nukem here is the guilty one for daring to speak out! Oh woe, how dare you nukem, you bad monkey doo! You know, criticism is just FINE, we actually should LEARN from it, but it's the WAY it's done here at times that IS a problem...and I believe nukem even says that....any wonder other folks with manners are so honeybunny and even afraid to tell if some work is needed on a rendering? They gotta make up for all the troll shit flying around and try to heal the wounds, only ONE unesecessary comment such as this can equal dozens of lovey dovey honey sweet comments by others cause we always remember those worst ones no matter how trolly they may be, they HURT! And that's cause we are artists....and artists are supposed to have feelings otherwise how do they manage to create beauty...but we are supposed to have feelings for "others" too, not just ourselves, or we lose something very inspirational and wonderful about this whole artsy experience, hobby or business.

hey bonestructure, you're talkin about me? you don't seem to be a better one if you talk like that about others I am a german AND NOT A NAZI!!! I hear that often from other people on this earth student and so my english is not the best I hope it's not the worst thank you blackhearted! I didn't took "WIP" serious at all and so maybe you now understand: for a final pic it would be more than bad Poser has not a very good rendering engine BONESTRUCTURE -> make an IQ-Test and if you are reaching the 130 then try to contact me again ;

"I'm not supporting him, I'm just asking that we not go and make a huge deal about this as usual. Christ Nukem, you need to calm down before you blow a blood vessel or something. WTF do you care what he thinks anyways? You dont have to justify your art to anyone either. If you dont like his comment then let it go, theres no need to come into the forums and start making a huge fuss over it." - - - - - -

I disagree... It's because I did come into the forums that admin knows someone who does not respect the artists in this community, who was orignally banned in the first place, has returned. My original intention was not to form a lynch mob, but to assert my basic right to defend my work and to give an offhanded warning to other newbies that they shouldn't be discouraged by this person since he has shown he has no qualms about stomping on newbie 3D artists and newbies are the people who need the most encouragement... Having him re-banned is an unexpected benefit that is an improvement for this community. - - - - - -

"I'm sure not every comment on your artwork is going to be exactly what you wanted to hear, but then dont ask for feedback. Feedback comes in the negative and positive varieties." - - - - - -

I've had some formal training in art so I'm well aware of this point. I did not respond in the manner that I did soley because he gave me negative feedback but rather it was his pure maliciousness that I felt warranted a response because of the reasons I gave above. - - - - - -

Theres no point to this thread. It seems people post things here just to start arguments. - - - - - -

I disagree. My point has been justified by having him banned again. By no means a permanent solution, but it wasn't my intention to provide one either... Nukem

Chaos - first of all, you're being "watched by RCook" because you apparently made a request for illegal software in chat... In a very juvenile manner, from the log I saw. A banning offense. Second, your comments MAY have been accurate, but they could, at least, have been worded more tactfully, more professionally. Much like, oh, Bonestructure's comments are. The many is an accomplished artist and very professional in his criticisms, et. al. We could ALL learn something from him, you most of all, it seems.

I don't normally reply to this kind of thread, but since my name was dragged into it, along with the comment I made, I feel I have a right to defend my remarks. I stand by what I said. I thought the picture WAS superb. I am just as much entitled to my opinion as the trolls are to theirs. Please Mr. Blackhearted, keep MY name out of YOUR posts. Thank You.

who said you were a nazi? I didn't even know you were german. And having been to germany and enjoyed the wonderful hospitality of many german people, that's not a comment I would ever make. And just for your information, I have an IQ tested at 179, I hold a masters degree in psychology and lesser degrees in art and physics. I'm a well published author and artist with a book on the stands now, a CD that's just been released and many many publications behind me. Granted I'm in desperate financial trouble at the moment, but I'm hoping that will be resolved eventually. Plus, I was speaking in general terms of 'types' of people. Nowhere did I mention you specifically. If you chose to take my comments personally, then perhaps you should examine yourself to see how far they go in applying to you.

So, CHaoSlayer98, if you could kindly devote a few of your many IQ points to answering this: If you don't like Poser, what program is it that you do like? Is it the one you were attempting to trade illegally in Renderosity chat? You know, that astoundingly intelligent move you made that got your non numerically addended account banned, and dishonoured your name forever here at Renderosity.

Is your only demand to have me banned again? that is stupid! I made a bad criticism on your pic and you project my behaviour to your pic on all the others? could one mistake destroy a whole account on renderosity? I joined this site to improve my works and I wanted to know what others think about my work One mistake, oh sorry, I forgot! Two mistakes! It seems that you think I am a really baaa~aad guy, don't you? I am at least a very sensitive person if you wnat to believe that or not But if somebody writes such a comment I made to your pic on one of my pics, I would try to find out why the person thinks so and I would contact him with e-mail or instant message or sth like that but not making such a great deal out of that!

I would like to know how old you are! I am 19 years old, just now having reached the end of the highest educational system in germany

Chaos, it's the manner in which you expressed your comment. I'm sure if you would have expressed yourself differently, no one would have thought anything of it. We're not so sensitive that negative criticism bothers us overly. But when someone chooses a rude, insulting and vulgar manner of expressing that criticism, that's when it becomes a big deal. And the language you've used to answer posts in here disproves your claim that you don't speak english well. Nest time, stop and consider a more effective way of expressing your criticisms. That way you will avoid problems.

How old am I? I'm 50.

I like to answer your question but I don't think that you would take me serious And as I posted the links to illegally copied software I felt provocated by dukduk, that sucks with his "I know all better - you are dumb"-postings in the chat just look into my gallery or the other one, that is still online "CHaoSlayer" , without the 98 and if it was a serious question from you there is the answere

wow! respects! honor to the wise and I mean that serious!

{I would like to know how old you are! I am 19 years old, just now having reached the end of the highest educational system in germany } That's about what I would have guessed. You haven't been out and around enough to learn to give at least POLITE if not PROFESSIONAL criticisms. I was the same way at your age...

I just saw your pics and I must say: your 3D Studio MAX and your 2D pics are really great, but I think like before that the poser models don't fir in that world, the are kind of "too clean" and "too artificial", if you know, what I mean

Hey, Charlie Don't talk any further or I'll develope sympathy for you ;

Cool point chaos, so why did "you" not DO exactly that too, take your "concerns to e-mail, instead of put such an uncooth remark under nukem's work?? You know you could word that much, much better, don't you?? Anyone with the slightest of tact would know how to do that, and especially anyone with any kind of densitivity or caring for others' respects, even if their work is not up to standard, there are ways to HELP, just like we do all over the forums, not bastardize them with "bullshit" remarks, that just isn't at all kosher and makes about as much sense as tons of sugar fairies sprinkling honey drippings on everything here, both can be extreme, but for the sake of talents and inspirations, I would take and give the fairy drops any old day rather than troll doodoo. No wonder this site has to filter out the garble that is posted on the front page and in the market place and anywhere that this place may be a showplace experience, lest we would have the meany mouthed of the world representing us in their finest moments, what a lovely picture that would be huh?....oh my...

YES! I could talk and even critisize better in german, but you would understand nothing I think, oder habt ihr etwa in der schule deutsch leistungskurs gehabt? sorry for that

At 19, I wasn't THAT way, and I was a rebel....and I am also from Europe, so niether excuse is gonna work here....beg to differ with you CB....

All the more why you should THINK before you speak? I did not know how to speak English when I came here, and even today I get tongue tied with some language barriers cause my mother tongue pronounced every letter and much was different....

Me, not talk? Fat chance... ;-)

{....and I am also from Europe, so niether excuse is gonna work here..} Good point - if he was FRENCH it might be an excuse, but he's GERMAN and should know better... ;-)

I've been following this thread all day. (Wow...I have nasty, boring work for the next couple of weeks...So, is easy to let my mind wander over here.) I felt really good when Chaoslayer responded in a somewhat positive way. Then, he retracted, based on something Bones said. First, I was astounded, that someone who has been "banned", can alter their username and sign back up, the following day. I am just a bit of a newbie...well..not soooo new, anymore, here, myself. So, the machinations of this "community", and, I think of it as such; sometimes go over my head. In my mind, banishment is just the worst thing that could happen to anyone. (In web life, that is...IRL, well, I could be out of Spam, having alligators swimming in the streets, and my car floated away into a canal.) Where in the R'osity user manual does it explain how you can be banned on Monday, back on Tuesday, notorious on Wednesday, etc. It's as mystical as the "Hot 20" where it looks like you all are getting around the same number of clicks.....then...yours isn't there. We get these like 3 word pat lil sentences to these questions, when we ask, though. Destiny...You are primarily a character artist, as am I. I have a couple friends who are just into making models. They might be really in awe of a fantastic gear looking thingamabob, and view our character art as..."okay"...CAUSE THEY ARE CIVILIZED and would not call it bullshit. That is why, had I been Nukem, or, even me, I would have looked up Chaos immediately. If he was heavy into modelling, I would have just wished I could delete his comment and been on my merry poppin...(had to..devil made me do it.)way. On the converse, I would never ooh and awww about a model of gears. Would you? Be honest. Nukem...you have to realize...'cause you did model the tail and the wings...That some of the 3d folks out there are gonna be lookin' technical, as opposed to, just plain pretty. To Radart... Sometimes the manners around these parts are like a pig slop yahoo ranch full of toothless hillbillies that just had too many bottles of moonshine, Where ya stayin', in my town, Peter? Pop...pop...Poppi!

I wasn't referring to YOU CB, you know that, I was referring to my wonderless young strapling sad excuse of a so-called representation from my own roots! If you ARE from where you say, times have changed or your just here to cause trouble, cause I sure as hell don't remember coming from a land of trolls, and you would have been my neighbour once, ages ago, before you even existed, nevermind said Mama or bullshit or lederhosen!

We all look cute in make up, but it's what we are inside that counts chaos....

Oh, I forgot another thing! I have deleted my comment for NUKEM's pic and reposted a new, a better one, is it Okay?

Hey, now...This thread has taken a turn for the seriously strange. Ponder...ponder...ponder...(

that mostly expresses my inside, radart

Chaos, I agree that poser models don't work well in MAX, but I'm not an accomplished enough modeler to make decent characters yet. Modeling a strange machine or a desk or some such is one thing. But modeling a decent character is something else again. And I'm still working on properly exporting models from Poser so I can texture them efficiently in MAX to make them look good. It's not as easy as it sounds. You have to make a seperate texture map for each body part. But that's neither here nor there. You respond to my posts politely and with intelligence. All anyone is asking of you is to use those same qualities when you make comments on pictures. That shouldn't be so hard.

okay, is chaos male or female? I can't tell from the picture.

thanks a lot I will try to change my behavior here But I want to let you all know, that I am not a bad person nor I have a bad character so says my girlfriend and my other friends I like listening and "dancing" to black- and death-metal and I am not bad or evil or satanistic or so I am a stupid normal guy that is into a little life crisis I want to let you know, who I really am, what I am and not how bad I can be So sorry for all!

I am male!

Somehow...the woman looks JUST a lil too much like a Poserfolk.....Never, ever, forget the clown....lolol...there really was some wisdom, IMHO, in that picture. Just a thought.

I will join another community now - my bed ;

It might be just a parody of Massive Mike and Vapid Vicki. We live in a time of..."Don't trust your own eyes."

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=56761&Start=1&Sectionid=0&Form.Search=CHaoSlayer

Blackhearted wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theres no point to this thread. It seems people post things here just to start arguments. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I think you're forgetting the entertainment value. Nope, not me. I just want everyone to go to sleep somewhat satisfied. How can we all come in here, and forget how many totally devastating things actually happen in the real world? Or, perhaps, this is where we all blow off a little steam. All the better to sleep well, that night. Ponder...ponder...ponder.

hey, chaos messed up. We all do. I think he understands now that he needs to think his comments out a bit more. Besides, I listen to a german group called Mea Culpa, so heck, we probably listen to the same music lol