**MY BIG RIGGING SECRET!!!! **

Really very simple, in fact so simple its laughable.  AS you know I have been using what I have been calling in this thread and the critique forum "A second hip".  I have been calling it that because it acts like a hip bone.  What it is is a bone that you start with just like you would the hip bone only you name it something else and make it the parent of Hip, and then rig normally. This second hip (actually the first bone) actually doesn"t have any geometry on the model itself, it's like a body handle. (that's what I call it on my model "HipHandle") But it does affect the hip object and in most ways acts like "Hip".  What this does is to allow your actual hip to bend.  See the advantages?

Well I am probably going to turn Brad into some kind of comunal project because since I was laid off at work I have been working long hours at temp jobs and don't have much time to work on him any more.

Cheers,

phantom3D

But hips don't bend.. they have a bone structure. I don't see this as an advantage, unless it's for a snake or something that doesn't have a normal skeleton...

Well look at the bends this model can acheive and you'll see the advantage.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_9/file_409417.jpg

or maybe not.   Check the critique forum for more.

Awesome work!  I can't wait for your figures to be released.

Would that allow a more realistic bending over? Being able to rotate the hip in the X axis so figures could move better would be a BIG deal to me! Being able to rotate the hip WITHOUT moving the whole figure, and involving turning on IK chains, and doing a lot of reposing, would be a FANTASTIC time-saver.

The pic looks like he's a contortionist, but a more realistic poser contortionist.  Really impressive work. You ought to be put to work rigging figures,IMO.  The Set-up room is the FInal Frontier for most users. I know for a fact, it's mine. :lol:

Quote - Awesome work!  I can't wait for your figures to be released.

Thanks, he will probably be a freebie, hopefully I can get things finished this way.

Thats pretty awesome idea...

Free? GIMEE,GIMEE,GIMEE!

I had to get that out of my system. LOL

Sounds like a winner to me. I can actually afford THAT.

LOL! I'd date a contortionist like that! Erm...cough... cough... Great job!

 "But hips don't bend.. t"  um excuse me, but my hip bends and rotates too.  my lfet hip and my right hiip that is.
I don't think you should make your model free.  If you've been laid off work then you need the money.  even if you make the price of your model cheap it will help to have some cash flow.  I know you are eager to see your creation being used and rendered, but you need to be practical. think very carefully about your situation and maybe even ask an impartial friend or relative to advise.
Love esther

Ditto Estherau.  If the model can wear existing clothes without
too much adjustment, you could have a hot property.  Or if you
can team up with a clothing maker to give the model a basic
set of clothes and templates....

 or get philC to give it Wardrobe Wizard support too.
Great idea, find someone to team up with who might want to make clothes and money.  
Love esther

Another shot.

 great work!!!!!  that looks real.

The hip does NOT bend.  The legs bend and the abdomen bends (the spine and other attached musculature).  But the pelvis has no jointing of its own and is a rigid structure.  It is called a 'fused' bone structure consisting of the illium, ischium, and pubis.  The sacrum and coccyx are connected inbetween, leading to the spinal column (note that the coccyx is an evolutionary leftover from when we had tails).

The femurs insert into ball sockets in the lower pelvis and the spine inserts at the sacrum.  Motion at the abdomen is caused by muscles which curve the spine.  Motion of the legs is caused by muscles rotating the femurs.  Basically, the idea of using the hip as the top-level connective bone structure is correct.

That said, this double-hip solution seems like a simple way to avoid using IK to do bends around the hip (sitting, crouching, fetal, etc.) since the hip normally transports the entire figure (in a similar way to the BODY) when IK is disabled.  And I assume that there is an extra degree of skinning now that the bends go both ways (legs to hip <-> hip to legs).

 "The hip does NOT bend.  The legs bend and the abdomen bends"
The hip is not actually the pelvis except in poserland.  The hip is the joing between the top end of the femur and the pelvis hehe.
Love esther

Depends if we're discussing joints (the things at the rotation points) and the bones themselves. ;)

It's a little odd to work with at first. You use the two hip bones together, and sometimes against eachother. you basically have more options to allow you to get something that "looks" correct. and also allows you to actually put the leg-hip joint in the correct place without compromising other body bends. I have never really considered wheather or not the hip actually bends or not important. What's important to me is to get a human looking pose, without the basketball buns and flattened legs. This is a much better and simpler method than to use myriads of magnets and adding degrees of complexity, not mention the saved resources. The buttocks flatten as they should and the crack does not ride up the back. I don't know if people will like it but it is simple and easy to use. But truely I made it for myself because I was so frustrated with trying to get human looking bends out of the buttocks and legs of the models I had. Not trying to insult other peoples models either. This model is just the meanderings of a tinkerer.

I do hope that people will find it of use. It needs morphs and more morphs, clothes, textures and testing. Perhaps no one will be interested and it will be yet another poser model gathering dust in the archives, but I can't just throw it away, guess I'm still attached.

Can anyone explain to me how to turn a morph into a JCM? Or how do I set up the GEN-No GEN switch in Poser? I would like to go ahead and add the JCM's and set up the GENS, clean up the UV's, and finish rigging the hands, then it's up to better CG people to consider if it's worth the effort or not.

Cheers,

Mike.

I agree that it may be a useful option.  Just correcting the anatomical correctness. :)

A JCM (Joint Controlled Morph) is a Poser master dial connection.  Despite the name, it is not the Joint channels but the associated Rotation channels that are used.  So, you connect the morph(s) as slave to one or more of the rotation dials as the masters.  This involves putting a valueOpDeltaAdd section into the slave (the morph (targetGeom) channel).

Genital switching involves two (or more) geometries used with an Alternate Geometry dial (geomChan).  Basically, in this case the original full geometry has the genitals or not and then you have just the group in the alternate .obj file set up in the CR2 as such:

alternateGeom section in the bodypart Actor section with the .obj group.
geomChan section in the channels section with settings that make the selection discreet.

If you need more specifics, they can be provided.

Oh, cool, so can I hook up a morph to be dialed in in both directions of a rot -either or -also a single direction of the rot? So it's really a Cr2 hack?  Am I allowed to look at the Daz Cr2 files? I know I can't look at AM's stuff but if I could look at a Cr2 that has the language in it I could get it figured out.

I have the obj peice all made for the switch but I dont know what I must change in the Cr2 to make it work.  Again it would be so much easier if I could just look at a Cr2 with the switch in it like James.  I suppose I should ask in the copyright forum.

Thanks for the pointers.

 A simple, elegant solution, Phantom. And I ditto with esther and ockham. And I have to admit to wanting to try some keyframing with that setup.Obviously it's not bvh compatible, but it does mimic the actual skeletal structure slightly better......

Not BVH compatible? Hey, Phantom3d, Download a BVH file and apply it and see what happens to your character. Let us know.  You never know if it's screwed up unless you screw with it.. :lol:

I tried a BVH file awhile back that was for the freak and it worked ok except it does not use any of the extra bones that I have in the rigging. I have also used a number of body handles instead of morphs because they are so much more versatile, take less resources, and can be animated. For instance in the pectorials there are body handles so you can adjust the pectorials to follow the shoulder, collar, and arm movements in a more human manner.

If the figure can be animated  AND can bend like that...SELL THE CRAP out of that mutha!

Send Philc an email or go to www.philc.net/forum/  and post an appeal on his forum (Under Poser, I'd think,IMO) and ask him for a WW2 licence on this figure.  Explain who you are and your circumstance and send him a copy of the complete figure. He might be ameanable to a percentage of your take home on the figure. You can work with him. He's a good man, and is ready to help out people in need.

He might even offer you a job rigging figures! :lol:  You do good work. I'd offer a you job, if I wasn't unemployed, crippled up and facing having my lights turned off on Monday. I could be a lot worse off than that, but I'll miss being on-line. :laugh: At least I still have my car, and belongings, and not living in a FEMA trailor.

 
Here is a simple .cr2 with a dial for switching the ball and box.
Just delete the .txt from the file name and you can load the cr2  in Poser.

Hope this helps somehow :-)

Martin

what if there were a left and right hip handle?  Would the legs rotate better?

Hi Folks

I hope Phantom3D doesn't mind,  but here are a couple of videos showing the new hip rigging in action.  See what we're doing is introducing the root bone to Poser figures.  Afterwards we'll introduce more secondary bones.

Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/user/patorak3d You'll see them at the top of my page under videos,  the Thing walk and the Thing sneak.

Now,  bare in mind standard gimbals( no buttocks just thighs) are applied and there are no jcm's in the hip and thigh area. 

I was already impressed. Seeing it in action is just a little more impressive. I'd just like to see the male figure walk around. Unless this WAS the male figure heavily morphed. If so, I'm more impressed.  I got more room on the ol' impress-o-meter to go. 

He's no  Apollo, but damned impressive in it's own right. 

Quote - what if there were a left and right hip handle?  Would the legs rotate better?

I have a right and left body handle in the hip that helps to move the buttocks hip halves individually.

Quote - I was already impressed. Seeing it in action is just a little more impressive. I'd just like to see the male figure walk around. Unless this WAS the male figure heavily morphed. If so, I'm more impressed.  I got more room on the ol' impress-o-meter to go. 

He's no  Apollo, but damned impressive in it's own right. 

 
that is patoraks figure I dont know how to make animations. Thats pretty cool Pat to see this hip in action, Tell me did you use any actual geometry, I never have just a lonely old bone with no geometry of its own,  If so does it improve the performance?

Dimension3D has a product for adding JCMs and Geometry Switches easily but I'll have to look up which it is that does that. You should look over all the D3D apps for what might be useful... his Morph Clothes certainly makes fast work of adding morphs to reduced resolution figures.

Yeah I converted nearly all of the DAZ V4 morphs into one model I'm working on that is about 7k polygons with his utility, and it did them all in about five seconds.  Did a great job too.

I found it it's in the tools for Poser 12 pack.  WOW! that's going to really help so much, A kiss for Dimension3D!

Well I get a bit excited, but seriously if any of you have not tried Dimension3D's products you're missing out. I am happily busy making JCM's and adding them to my figure without having to write any ERC at all. Fantastic!

Well meanwhile here's another old render from a year back or so, of Brad using this secondary hip.

Looking very fit and more flexible than I. LOLOLOL  Can't wait to see the JCM in action! That will improve an already kick-ass figure.

Impressive model,Excellent Work

It looks like this should become the new Poser rigging standard.Hopefully availeble in Poser 8 with Sydney G3 - just fantasizing,sorry . However Pat and Phantom ,can't wait for your figures releases.

.1.

Yes, very good work. Can you make a "blank" cr2 file for clothing creation?

Yes I will have a blank cr2.  It should have only the JCM's in it ?  Or totally blank?

Well, I don't know, I am talking about a black cr2 file like, for example, apollo has, this cr2 file is used by the cloth creators.. That cr2 file would be a free distributable file...

The JCMs themselves will not be compatible with different geometry, although it's convenient for the rigger if you leave the CHANNELS there, just without the deltas information.  You can look at M4 and the blank CR2 that DavidGB made for a good example.  Basically edit your final CR2 and strip out all the deltas (they won't be any use to a different model anyway).

Quote - It looks like this should become the new Poser rigging standard.Hopefully availeble in Poser 8 with Sydney G3 - just fantasizing,sorry . However Pat and Phantom ,can't wait for your figures releases.

I was kindof half hopeing that Daz would have used this new hip set up in M4, maybe give me an honorable mention in the credits.  But alas no. There's still Apollo coming, perhaps Anton will try it. Or Smith Micro. I would like to see it out there.

 phantom3d - it will be out there when you release your new figure.  I'm very excited about your new figures and can't wait to see them in action in my runtime.
But I also want it to be finished and I like the idea of natural looking skin creases and squashing of body bits where they press against each other, so don't rush it just to see it get out there.
Love esther

Thanks esther,
 I probably will end up finishing it myself, god only knows how long that will take. Still If someone out there would like to try this hip setup, go for it, it's really pretty cool.

 I bet daz will use it for Victoria 5.