Quote - > Quote - Uh oh ... where did it go and why doesn't it render?

Anyone? ..... Anyone? ..... Anyone? ..... Bueller? ..... Bueller? ..... Anyone?

I would guess because it has no materials attached to itself. It was created as a wireframe prop so it would render as an invisible (Does that makes sense?)

Note - Bold and underlines in above quote by Dr Geep

Um, not exactly correct because ...

When we created it, it was NOT created as a wireframe prop, per se.

That is, a prop is only created as a geometric object which can be displayed in many different ways depending on which Document Display Style (or Element Display Style) is selected for viewing.  

It did not render because (in the Material Room) is had the Poser Surface parameter checked to "Display_Shadows_Only" and if there were no figures or props in the studio when rendered then nothing would be seen until we UNcheck "Display_Shadows_Only" ...
Now the prop will be visible when rendered.

Ok :blink: ... Ok! ...

@ mariner

The answer I was looking for was 0.1 inches or 1/10 (one tenth) of an inch because ...

1. Poser's GROUND is ALWAYS located at yTran -0.001 Pnu which is 0.1 inches DGS.

2. We created the NP and it's initial yTran value was 0.000

Now, we we "Drop to Floor" ... the NP moved UP to yTran 0.000 <--- where the "Floor" is so ...
... it's new yTran value is 0.000 (initial value) + 0.001 (moved up) or yTran 0.001 or 1/10 inch DGS.

So the answer I was looking for is 1/10 (or 0.1) of an inch using DGS**.**

  0.001 Pnu (on the parameter dial)**  = 0.1" DGS

Hint - Just move the decimal point over 2 places to the right to get DGS inches from the Pnu value.
**

OK? ... Questions? :blink:

My brain hurts! Math was never my strong suit.

Look at my answer again

I gave it to you in Inches, Feet, Millimeters, Centimeters and Meters.

It moved Up 0.001 NPUs or
The Move Upwards was

Inches 0.103 Up
Feett 0.009 Up
MM 2.621 Up
CM 0.262 Up
MTR  0.003 Up

Ps 0.103 inches is greater that 1/10 of and Inch, soory I forgot how to convert a decimal back to a fraction.
It is 103/1000s of and inch upward

You may also not that Poser doesn't seem to get the Exact (Bang On Conversions)
0.009 x 12 inches (1 Ft) = 0.109 Inches - Different than if you used the Inches scale
2.621mm / 10 = 0.261 Cms - Different than if you use Centimers
0.003meters x 100 = 0.3Cms - Different than if you used Centimeters

0.103Inches = 2.6162 Millimeters
0.103Inches = 0.26161999999999996 Centimeters
0.103Inches =  0.0026162 Meters
0.103Inches = 0.008583333333333333 Feet

=============================================================

Quote - @ mariner

The answer I was looking for was 0.1 inches or 1/10 (one tenth) of an inch because ...

1. Poser's GROUND is ALWAYS located at yTran -0.001 Pnu which is 0.1 inches DGS.

2. We created the NP and it's initial yTran value was 0.000

Now, we we "Drop to Floor" ... the NP moved UP to yTran 0.000 <--- where the "Floor" is so ...
... it's new yTran value is 0.000 (initial value) + 0.001 (moved up) or yTran 0.001 or 1/10 inch DGS.

So the answer I was looking for is 1/10 (or 0.1) of an inch using DGS**.**

  0.001 Pnu (on the parameter dial)**  = 0.1" DGS

Hint - Just move the decimal point over 2 places to the right to get DGS inches from the Pnu value.
**

OK? ... Questions? :blink:

@ mariner

Ok, ok ...

Email your snailmail addy to me and I will send you a "WW" CD.

See previous posts in this thread for my email addy ... ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

So for once I guessed a mathematics question right too ...

@ jgodeau

Ok, ok ...

Email your snailmail addy to me and I will send you a "WW" CD.

See previous posts in this thread for my email addy ... ;=]

I'm gonna have to make these questions tougher before I run out of "WW" CDs ...

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

... and postage "over the pond" ain't cheap either ...

No prob ................. da NaySayGuy has a rich Uncle who funds all this fun.

;=]

Note - I will be using one of the Document Display styles that shows the polygons.

What size , x and y (using real world dimensions, i.e., inches) is our NewProp (NP)?

What is the distance between the lines?

How can we find out?
Do we really care?
Why is this important?

Next ...

Wall, da scale thingy are one hunnerd porcint ain't it?

No you stoopid irriot, that's one hunnerd PERcent.

Dumba$$.  Sheeeeeesh!

All right, all right, settle down class.

Let's continue...

We created our NewProp (NP) from the GROUND, right?

Q. What was the Scale of the GROUND when we created NP?
A. 400%.

Q. What was the Scale of the NP after we created it from the GROUND prop?
A. 100%

Q. What is the real world size of the NP in (DGS) inches?
A. I don't know ... ;=] ... let's find a way to figure out the "real" size, shall we? ... Next ...

We kin git wun a yer 9 Foot Scale thingies an jus measure da dang thing kain't we?

Quote -
Q. What is the real world size of the NP in (DGS) inches?
A. I don't know ... ;=] ... let's find a way to figure out the "real" size, shall we? ... Next ...

640" x 640" ??

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy, Stan ... Good ta "see" ya!

640" ??? ............... Did you cheat and use the 9 Foot Scale prop? :lol:

Let me check ...

Next ...

Would you like to know from whence the Poser native unit (Pnu) came ??? :huh:

To find out ... CLICK HERE*... and meet the original Poser Native Guy. ___ YEAH !!!
(See Page 3)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

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Woo! That's one skeery native! Shouldn't he have a spear and a loin cloth?

Quote - Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy, Stan ... Good ta "see" ya!

640" ??? ............... Did you cheat and use the 9 Foot Scale prop? :lol:

Let me check ...

No, I remembered this from earlier tuts you had about the ground and from when I was doing my house and other buildings.

@ LostinSpaceman

Yup! ... ;=]

@ cherokee69

Ok, you're forgiven (lol) ... ;=]

So what you are saying is that a Poser Native Unit is equal to a Fathom.

What is a Fathom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathom

and a Fathom has certainly been around much longer.

Quote - Would you like to know from whence the Poser native unit (Pnu) came ??? :huh:

To find out ... CLICK HERE*... and meet the original Poser Native Guy. ___ YEAH !!!
(See Page 3)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

• opens in a new window

Well, yes ...................... except that ......................... he lied !

And taken the values listed in the Scale examples above.
let's guess where The 9 Foot Scale Prop came from?

1Native Poser Unit Equals Nine (9) feet.

Quote - Well, yes ...................... except that ......................... he lied !

Um, not quite ......... stay tuned ..........

1.000 Pnu = 100.0 inches ....... EXACTLY !!!
(just move the decimal point over 2 places to convert Pnu's to inches (DGS).

Can you guess why ?

;=]

P.S. 9 feet = 108 inches ......... it's close but no cigar ...
'sides ......... close only counts in horseshoes & handgrenades ... right? ...

;=]

Quote - And taken the values listed in the Scale examples above.
let's guess where The 9 Foot Scale Prop came from?

1Native Poser Unit Equals Nine (9) feet.

Quote - Well, yes ...................... except that ......................... he lied !

Not according to the link you just gave us to the Wiki!

Quote - There are 2 yards (6 feet) in a fathom.[1] 

Hey Lost ...

Sorry but .......... I did not give you that  link.

And there is the Confusion in this Whole Poser Scale Method.

When you did the Drop to floor, it moved upward 0.001 NPUs or 0.009 Feet.
That would mean that 1 NPU would equal 9 Feet.

Yet now we learn that 1 NPU equals finre tips to finger tips, the same method as measuring a fathom. yet we are expected to believe that it is really 9 Feet for and NPU and not 6 feet.

Hard to really believe that these Poser scales are even releated to Real life.
How tall would a man have to be to measure 9 feet finger tip to finger tip, arms out stretched???
Obviously Artistic Freedom has taken over.

Quote - [Not according to the link you just gave us to the Wiki!

Quote - There are 2 yards (6 feet) in a fathom.[1] 

Quote - Hey Lost ...

Sorry but .......... I did not give you that  link.

I know you didn't. I was quoting Mariner who said a fathom was 9 feet but the Wiki link he gave said a fathom was 6 feet. Please disregard as it's a tangent we don't need to go down since it's not a PNU anyway. Besides all this math is gonna make my head esplode'! :tt2:

Let's try a simple experiment using 2 Square props from Poser's Props Library.

Here's what to do:

1. Load a Square prop *(square_1)

2. Change xTran to -0.05*0 ...... (move it 5" to the left DGS)

3. Load another Square prop (square_2)

4. Change xTran to 0.050 ..... (move it 5" to the right DGS)

5. Change yTran to 0.100 ... (move it 10" up DGS)

This allows us to accurately position props with each other.

***** Pop Quiz ***

What is the size (using DGS) of Poser's Square prop?**

Extra Credit ***

What "Scale" should we use for Poser's GROUND so that it has 10" (DGS) between lines?

Next ... back to the GROUND Scale and making NewProps from it ...

Now, I am 6 feet 3 inches tall, yup, I'm a pretty big guy but then it's my studio, right? :lol:

Ok, so I cheated and used my 9 Foot Scale prop but we can find my height without using the prop.

Stay tuned and find out how.

Next ... measuring height using DGS ... (without using the 9 Foot Scale prop)

Oh, the GROUND Scale to make it 10" between lines? .............. Try using 125%.

What Scale would we use to get 12" between lines ? :blink: Hmmm ... ??????????

If we raise the Box prop up 10" (DGS) by changing yTran to 0.100 we can see
the bottom of the box is exactly the same height as the top of the square
so we can measure height using a Box prop and setting it on top of an
object (or figure) to see what the height is ... ... Ok?

Let's use this method to see how tall Dr Geep is ... Next ...

Oh, ................. the GROUND Scale to get 12" between lines?

Try using 150%

How about 24" or 2 feet between lines? ... Just double the Scale used for 1 foot (12")
and make the GROUND Scale = 300% ........ 150% (12") x 2 = 300% (24")

How about 4 feet :huh: ??? ...................... Anyone? ..... Anyone?

Ok, I'm standing up straight in the center of the studio.

Now, I load a Box prop and raise it UP by increasing yTran until it is on top of my head.

Oh, I am using the Front Camera to avoid parallax errors.
Those are measuring errors that we can get if we use the Main Camera.

Next, I can read the yTran value and see that it's 0.750.

That's 75" DGS which is 6' 3".  Yup, I'm a pretty big guy.

HEY, it works .... how about that.

What's next? ... Stay tuned ...

The GROUND Scale so that we have 4 feet (48") between lines ??? ... Try 600%

Just double the 300% we used to get 24" between lines.  300% x 2 = 600%

How about 8 feet between lines? ... That's just double 4 feet, isn't it?

How about 1200% ? ... Did it work?

Let's change the Scale to 12.5% so that we have exactly 1 inch between lines.

Now, we can ...

But ... it has 8 polygons in each row so that means that each polygon is 1 1/4 inches.

Next, we are going to change the Scale, i.e., size, of the Box so we can make a new simple prop.

Let's change the Box's Scale so that each polygon is exactly 1 inch x 1 inch ... Why do we do this?

We will find out very soon ...

Can you guess what we will make? ......... Using only Poser

Next ... resizing the Box prop ...

Use the Grouping Tool ??? ... What's that? ... :blink:

____ *Hey, if we use the "Hidden Line" Document Display style ...
... we don't need to worry about what lights we have in the studio ...
... when we are using the Grouping Tool.

• Click the "Delete Group" button to remove the "box" group. (if you have this group)

Next ... let's make a "New Group" ...*

WIN a "Wacky World" CD !!!

:blink: **____ Hey, why did Doc change the Scale of the Box?

***First correct answer (posted here) wins a "WW" CD. *** ___ YEAH !!!

This time we are only going to ADD a few polygons to our "New Group" ...

After we click the "New Group" button ... we can ...

Click on the polygon(s) we wan to ADD to the Group
= OR=
Click & Drag around a bunch of polys to ADD more than one poly at a time.

Oops, I got a poly in there that I don't want !

No problem ... there are 2 different ways to REMOVE polys from a group.

Method #1. Click the REMOVE Minus (-) icon so that it is active (yellow) and then ...

     Click on the poly(s) you want to remove.
          =OR=
     Click & Drag around a group of polys to remove them.

OR ... we can REMOVE polys using this method ... <<<

Method #2. Leave the ADD plus (+) icon active (yellow) and then ....

Hold down the Control (Ctrl) Key ...
(you will see a little minus (-) sign with the cursor)

Now we can ...
Click on ... or ... Click & Drag around the polys we want to remove from the Group.

Ready to make a New Prop? :blink:
... Remember practice makes perfect, :huh: ..... er, better ...

ADD the 16 polygons shown in the image above **like this ...
8 polygons on the front ..... top row only ...

• and -
  8 polygons on the top ... front row only.**

Next ... let's make a simple picture frame using only Poser ...

Now ... ADD 16 more polygons using the bottom row on the front and ...

... the front row on the bottom.

Next ... making the sides ...

*This makes the left side of our picture frame. 

One more side and we're finished .......... almost

Next ... make the right side ...

Now we can click the "Create Prop" button in the Group Editor window.

Let's name it "Frame1" and now we can ...

Select the Box and Delete the Box prop.

Next ... filling in the "holes" ...

Now you know how we can make a new prop from part of an existing prop, e.g., the Box prop.

Our new prop is not complete and we will fix that ... Next ...

Quote -
Now, our "Frame1" prop should look like this.

  

Could we lay something like that Frame down on the groundterrain and give it a water texture to make a Moat?
Would the land still stick up through the middle of the frame?
This question has come up before regarding a Castle with a moat.

TKS

Hi mariner,

Hey, good question !
Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that application but  ...

Sure, why not?

But ................... Let's fill in a few of the "holes" first ...

Holes? :blink:

Yup ... we're missing a few pieces ...

Remember we changed the Scale of the Box before we made our New Prop?

We are about to find out why we did that ... Next ...

Hint: each polygon is now exactly 1" so we can use DGS to ...

OK, I am now waiting for the Missing Pieces.
Decided to do and open cube.
Now need to know how you get textures to apply for one thing.
I created a Material Group and assigned a material, still have problems.

First, we select our new "Frame1" prop and then ...

Open the Group Editor (click on the Grouping Tool)

Next, we make a "New Group" ...

Note - If we already have a New Group ... Delete it ... just Click the "Delete Group" button
We do this to make sure we do not include any extra polygons that may already be in a "New Group."
Note -We can use the "NewGroup" name because it is just a temporary group.

Next ... ADD the polygons shown in blue and Click the "Create Prop" button.

Now, the "NewProp" is selected and we can move it into the correct position ...

Using the xTran parameter for the "NewProp" ... change it to -0.070 ... (this is 7' in DGS)
Note - This is why we changed the Scale of the Box to make the polygons exactly 1" in size.
Note - Make sure to use a minus (-) value for the xTran parameter to move it to the left.

Next ... we will do the same thing for the other side ...

We can use the default name "NewProp"*

** Note - We can just use the default name "NewProp" because Poser will automatically add a number to it, e.g., NewProp, NewProp 1, NewProp 2, etc. to keep the New Props separate.*

After we have created the "NewProp 1" ... it is selected and we can ...

Change xTran (using a positive (+) value this time) to the right exactly 7".

Can you guess what's  ... Next ... ??? :blink: ___ Duh ... Dunno ?

Hint - There are 2 more "holes" to fill before we "glue" the props together ... ;=] ... Top? ... Bottom?

Ok, so maybe you don't want or need a picture frame, ok? ... OK.

Like ... um, er, maybe you want to make a ....... moat for a castle ??? :huh:

And don't worry about the size (Scale) ... we can easily change that later ... ;=]

So ... if you learn the process, then you can make almost anything you want using only Poser.

Stay tuned ...

Make sure to Select "Frame1" ... and then make another NewProp to fill in the bottom "hole" ...

Remember, after we "Create Prop" ("NewProp 2") ... it is selected and we can change ...
yTran to -0.070 to move it down 7" (DGS).

Now, we can ... Rotate the camera to view Frame1 from below and ...

  ... reselect "Frame1" to  "Create Prop" ("NewProp 3") ... now,  it is selected and we can change ...
yTran to 0.070 to move it up 7" (DGS) and fill the top "hole" ... ;=]

Now we can "glue" all 5 pieces (objects) together ... Next ... ___ YEAH !!!

GLUE??? ___ :blink: ___ Poser got glue ???

Here is what we are going to combine into a single object: (there are 5 objects)

• Frame1
• NewProp
• NewProp 1
• NewProp 2
• NewProp 3

___ Hey, we've been taking things apart, right? 
Now let's learn how to put 'em together!***