Re-rigging Vicky-1 ?

Why ? 

Because when I bend her thighs deeply, the bums end up looking like two badly-parked Volkswagons?  LOL

Is your attached image an illustration of an implementation of Phantom3D's technique, or just the default figure?

Quote - Ooh.  So it's more complicated than I thought.  Thanks for the response. 

Is this something that can be set up in the (nervous shudder) setup room?  I tend to prefer cr2 editing, but this doesn't sound like an easy copy-and-paste exercise for such editing.

If anyone in this thread has made this work, can someone maybe post a diagram or illustration which somehow shows us dummies how the rig is arranged?  The Cage is a bit slow-is.... 

I will draw a diagram in photoshop and post it.  I have always done it in the setup room, but it could probably be done in the cr2. Some thing else the hip has to be positioned and pointed in a certain way to work right and this changes from model to model depending on the geometry and the rest of the rigg.

Knowledge IS power. I don't mind at all if you make the rest of us more powerful!  Jeez, I need more power in my life. LOLOLOLOL :laugh: Literally, being in the dark sucks.  You got me really REALLY curious now.

Nope. Just some morphing with the MorphBrush on her right buttock and the hip.

And here's a quick one reducing her rearend.

Not very good with the drawing in photoshop LOL.  My new rigg is something different but this one does what you're looking for.

The lower abs now controles the bikini style hip group and for hip you set up the buttocks area. I guess I should take a pic of the groups, but basically the hip bone will move the buttocks area around, it will make the but smaller pull it up and take out the crease in the upper thigh when you bend the model over. When you bend the model backwards it can pull the butt down and out ect. You play the hip off against the other  body parts. the groin bone is a body handle and will move the groin around so you can get it in the proper place.

Hioushi : I here ya, it has always been a mystery to me as to why a app made for characters bent like metal.

Phantom 3D : Maybe after you conquer Poser your conquer D/S

Quote - Thanks for the thread link, that part about morphing tool morphs ignoring the joint deformations is very interesting. I had found another way around the joint deformations with morphs.  What I do is export a copy of the figure posed and a copy of the figure not posed, then I import the posed figure into Zbrush and put into a layer, then I create my morphs on the posed figure so I know exactly what they will do withe the bent joint, then I create a new layer and import the unposed figure into that and transfer only the moved vertices to the unposed figure, and this way you have a morph that behaves correctly with the joint bends. The morphing tool sounds very interesting though and I have not worked with it much but I will.

Hmm... This sounds interesting. If you are using a posed figure, does that mean you are working on a unwelded figure? Won't it cause problems to morph across groups of an unwelded figure?

Quote -
I am still going to release brad and If I can get these riggs finished I will release them too, I found out that you can also use Dimension3D's morphing clothes to transfer the morphs over from V4 to my rerigged V4 with no problem at all and very fast too. So it's very doable. I am working out this new rigg right now, hoprfully be done shortly.   also I start back to work at my regular job at the end of this month, and that will give me alot more time to get back to work on all my own stuff, can't wait.   

YEA!  happy dance  ^^
I haven't picked up Dimension3D's clothing morph transfer app since it is PC only, but I may have to try it if it works as well as you say it does. ^^

I'm happy to hear your work situation is getting better. ^^

Quote -
My rigging inovations are  really pretty simple, alot of it is just using the poser rigging in ways that were never intended but it works. The hip thing was an accident I thought my cr2 was broken but found the results to be very beneficial.  LOL Anyway I don't really care if everyone knows how to do these things, that's the thing about knoweledge, you can never really keep it for yourself or it's useless.

It was an accident? A very happy accident! ^^  Who would have of thought rigging that way?  -^
Thanks for sharing your diagram, I think I understand. You must have done a lot of experiments to find what works and what doesn't. You should give yourself more credit, it's really cool!  I look forward to your releases. ^^

You know phantom3D, I admire your skills as much as I admire your humility, as BeastBlack said, you have done a lot of research and came up with something impressive.

Thanks Hioushi, I hope people will enjoy using some of my ideas.

RorrKonn:  I do want to get a good handle on D/S and figure out the differences.

Bastblack: I weld the figures first and then fix the vertex orders just like  Joe does. It saves alot of time because I can do the morphs exactly as they are needed and don't have to do as much trial and error. It's very easy to weld the posed figure with Zbrush and if Zbrush can't do it (sometimes the gap is too wide and Zbrush wont merge the vertices) then there is a free app by anthony appleyard called MAKEOBJ and it will weld anything you specify( for instance you can choose welld all open edges and the distance) I also now use OBJAction Scaler to scale the model up for Zbrush because it gives absolutely perfect results, whereas using the poser scaler for Zbrush is still off very slightly and makes your morphs actually affect the whole body part instead of just the vertices you move for the morph.

The thing I don't like about the morph brush is that it does not span groups, but for morphs within a single group it's quicker and easier.

Morpher by Kaweki (SP?) is excellent by the way for fixing the vertex order and some other problems with poser morphs.

And I just can't say it enough but Morphing clothes by Dimension3D is absolutely fantastic. All of Dimension3D's tools are perfectly gorgeous, and do exactly like they say they will. I purchased the morphing clothes, and was so impressed I went back and purchased every tool dimension3D had to offer and have been happy with all of them.

Something else I wanted to mention.  I just purchased (2months ago) an app called 3D Coat, it has a really easy to use set of retopology tools great for making clothes, it also is a 3D paint app like body paint, it also can make displacement and normals maps it handles millions of poly's, and here is the rub, it has a full set of morphing brushes ect, and can also export the mesh back to its original vertex order so the mesh is good to use for morphs. All this and more for only 140.00 super deal!

I have not had time yet to really check it out yet but from what I did play with, I felt lucky to get something this great for so cheap.  Also you can get the free trial to play with. just Google 3DCoat and you can find the site. I think this app may turn out to be better than Zbrush for morphs if for no other reason than the ability to export original vertex orders.

the UI is alot like blacksmith 3D and I know you Bastblack use blacksmith 3D so it may be something to check out.

cheers, Mike.

Thank you for all these wonderful tips!  I have been struggling making morphs the hard way all this time! I use the original Obj, and avoid unwelded figures. ^^;;;

I will try these programs and apps. I need to buy an Intel Mac, so hopefully I can use some of these PC apps on Mac with BootCamp or some other OS emulator. ^^;

Another handy app to have is STOMP by Spanky, -- it cleans up the obj materials and speeds up render time. ^^

3D Coat is another PC only app? It sounds like it's user friendly (Zbrush is not, of that UI... rolls over)  Blacksmith does some cool things, and easy to use, but I am interested in retopology and other ways of morphing.  I will check it out. ^^

Ooh!  Thanks for the diagram, Phantom3D!  I'll see what I can work out, now.  :D

I stopped getting e-bots for this thread, for some reason.  I must've deleted one and not checked the thread, so it stopped sending.  Hmm.

@JoePublic: The morph brush is a great tool, but not always the best solution.  It works on a case-by-case basis, and I always seek something which can provide more automated results.  The morph brush is a bit dangerous, too, around body part edges.  The weld seam vertices can be pulled apart, creating ugly artifacts.  Still, excellent work!  :D

On edit:  Ooh!  3D Coat!  Wowzah!  I know what's happening for XMas now....  :D  Many thanks, Phantom3D!

BastBlack: 3DCoat is MacOs too.

Cage: Once you get the bones set up use the joint editor and move the center around for the hip and legs till it works right then go back in to the set up room and straighten the bones and make sure to set the centers for the middle bones X position to 0.00.

The maker of 3DCoat works on it all the time and there are lots of cool updates, also people are making stuff for it all the time too check the forums.

I can't post the link but it's at  3DCoat.com

I see that!  It's Mac Intel. I'm downloading trials now. ^^

Hmm.  The diagram looks fairly straightforward (I haven't had time to test anything yet), but I'm uncertain about what the stabilizer bones are supposed to end up doing.  Like I said (or tried to, but was foiled by a typo): Cage is a bit slow-ish.  Koff.

I'll go back and re-read this thread and the others to which it links.  I'll bet there's something I skimmed which I should have studied closely.... 

The two stabilizer bones don't actually do anything except to allow you to move the hiphandle into positions you could not normally acheive.

Wow, phantom3D, thank you so much for your generous spirit!

It's so very fascinating to read you technique.

Thanks lam2.

I'm working out a new rigg that's even better, it still has two hips but done without the hiphandle, Which is good in  that You don't have to deal with the problems that arise from the joint widget thingies (the red and green line things.)  And it uses some modified buttocks bones which give even more options. Once it's worked out I'm going to rigg everything I have with it V1-4 M1-4 David and my own models. RTEencode them and sell em @$5.00 each, cheap but what the hell.  I have questions though wheather or not I will be allowed to convert the Daz morphs to work with the new riggs, They could be RTEencoded too but not sure if that will be allowed.

That sounds awesome!  ^^
If you do it, make 2 versions of the Cr2:  One that is the base, and one that has the morphs. 
RTE separately each version.  

Will you try Mik2 and G2 males also?  
OMG, i would so love a good posing Koji.  ^^

Sure, may as well do all the poser models, once the rigg is complete it's fairly simple to adapt it to each model.

$5.00 each is not bad at all. It's affordable for great many people, and you have so many different models to put your rig in.
Like BastBlack said, there will be a lot of people who would be interested in see G2 series model fit with your rig. Miki 2.0 would be great, too.
I'll definitely support you with my $ when they comes out!

As for RTEncoding the DAZ morph, probably it's a good idea to ask them about it.

Anyway, keep up your great job, and tease us!

I think re-rigs for $5 is a wonderful idea... it would be so nice to work with better rigging!

Phantom 3D

Think it's killer what your doing for 3D & Poser.

Have Diamonds topolagy terrorized but she bends better, using Basic C4D 9 do not have CA,C4D's Basic rigs are limited.

Checking out free app's TrueSpace,Blender,DAZ,

Maybe between them all I'll get the comic and maybe one day a video released.

Don't forget Wings3d!  It's free and the easiest 3d modeler I've ever found. You can find the latest release at wings3d dot com.  odf made the Antonia figure in wings.

Only one word about your rigging skills and the ideas behind them... AWESOME!

Some of the most natural bending figures I have ever seen. Bravo.

Isn't it  funny about Poser ? We pay now up to 500 Dollars for it ,but the most important improvements are done by skilled users.

Quote - Isn't it  funny about Poser ? We pay now up to 500 Dollars for it ,but the most important improvements are done by skilled users.

That's the way it's always been, tw. You know that. CR2 hacking, crosstalk usage, Kozaburo's very first transmapped hairpiece, etc.

And let us know when the encoded rerigs are ready, Phantom. This lil animator wants to see how the digital dollies perform..... :D

Quote - Sure, may as well do all the poser models, once the rigg is complete it's fairly simple to adapt it to each model.

Ooooo Can't wait!  jump jump  ^^

Isn't it  funny about Poser ? We pay now up to 500 Dollars for it ,but the most important improvements are done by skilled users.

Too true, too true.  LOL

Sadly, I haven't been able to make this rig work, so I'm rather enthused about the idea that this rigging system will be made available soon at an affordable price.  :D  :D  Hopefully the emphasis is not misplaced if I put it on "soon"....

Man, oh man.  This has taught me that I'm a dunce, when dealing with rigging and actor hierarchies. 

Most people are dunces in the set-up room.  I am. As long as a couple of people AREN'T, that give hope for the rest of us! :laugh:

I vote phantom in over Daz's rigging anyday. awesome work, loos like Daz is not as good as they think they are. with rigging.

What  superb Christmas gifts these $5.- re-rigs would be.  Heh,  just trying to inspire you Phantom since money isn't obviously your motivator.  Maybe you could be persuaded to release them one by one as they're ready , I'm sure ppl would jump all over them, especially animators.  I do dancing and acrobatic anims and these would be a  godsend.

I am madly looking forward to your Brad figure as well as odf's Antonia.  Great kudos to you guys!!

I'll buy a set for Christmas  Perhaps an early Christmas?

Hi, everyone.  Been working (mundane aufull jobs, manual labor, imagine a man of my age moving dirt with a shovel! but I can still outwork most of these kids. Can't wait till next week, back to my nice office job.)

masha: a question, do animators use the JCM's in the model when they do animations?

Clothes creators: Do you use the JCM's in the base when you make clothes?

The reason I ask is because on some of these models the polygon topography is terrible for some bends and I'm going to have to use some JCM's to get the joints to work right.  I want to say something good about M4 and this is one area that Daz has done an outstanding job, for the leg hip bend they have really nice topography for the bend.  Take a look at M4 in smooth shaded lined display and bend the leg and watch the polygons, how they smoothly fold up together, half of that smoothness is the way the poly's are aranged in that area and the other half is the rigging.

Cheers,

Mike

Nice topology is ALWAYS a good bonus to find!  Much better than finding a bunch of large quads that need sub-dividing and substituting the original object.

I have Diamonds topology wrecked, attempting to find the best topology for rigs.

**JOELGLAINE:  Exactly, and the way they are arranged too. It makes sooo much difference when you go to rigg it.

RorrKonn: Keep going, I did that myself so many times I can't count. Watch how the poly's move when you bend the model and it will tell you how they need to be, for the bend you are attempting.

Well I finally got my new rigg put together, It's pretty cool, It has Hip, and Hip2, plus it has the buttocks bones and thigh bones so you have lots more options. I did away with the Hiphandle, in favor of the modified buttocks bones and the hip2, It all works with IK too (although getting the hip2, buttocks bones and thigh bones to work together and be stable, not weird out all the time, was crazy impossible, but I did it. :) Also it has my shoulder joint so has the full human range of motion with the shoulders. Some of it is of course non standard but can all be animated, even with BVH, you just have to pose the non standard bones manually for the new BVH file. It takes almost all the Daz pose files but if you really want the benefits of the rigg you have to adjust the poses for the extra abilities of the rigg.  Antonia is the first to get this rigg, I know it's taken me forever but a new rigg takes time.

Cheers,

Mike.**

The first airplane took time to fix up to the point where it was air-worthy.  However, it was worth it!

You did this in quicker time than making an early airplane. Between you and odf, you guys are quicker than the Wright brothers! :laugh: It's all a matter of perspective. (Still quicker than M4 by DAZ! :lol:)

Congratulations, phantom3d! You did it!
Congratulations, everyone else on this thread!

Wow!

Wow, that's great great news, congratulations! can't wait to see it in action.

Results are fabulous! I'm so glad to see someone thinking alternative as far as rigging is concerned!
After the first Eve introducing buttocks as bodypart the next evolution after many years was Apollo.
I'm happy that we have another new step on Poser rigging!
I won't say I want it now! Although I'm very curious :biggrin:
Only the creator knows when something is ready, so I can wait as much as it takes because it totally worth it! :thumbupboth:

 they should just have a system like rendero where you can flag a post as commercial (even if it's an offsite announcement by a non-vendor like me as in "hey these shoes are on sale at...") and have a setting so that a user who doesn't want to see these threads completely doesn't see them.  that would solve the whole problem hey.  
I think that's what daz does.
Well it would solve the problem from my end but I think rendero just doesn't want people at rendero hopping off to other websites.
Kind of silly really when you think that a poser scene needs so many different 3d bits and pieces.
Love esther

Well, this isn't a commercial thread, just a developmental thread.  If we can evolve Poser by our own efforts, then so much the better.  This is where they say, 'They did it here!'

Quote - If we can evolve Poser by our own efforts, then so much the better

I double that! I just hope one day developers of poser would take a look what's going on this community and "take advantage" of this evolution which brings new ideas on this little software we all love! :biggrin: (which some times has be done to be fair, like with universal poses, pmd, material collection... I'm sure there are more)

Quote - Antonia is the first to get this rigg

I'm flattered.

Hi ya'll,

I'm tryin to figure out how to make a little AVI, all I want to do is to record what is going on in the poser veiwport.  I go to make movie and start it but then I can't move the figure or even select anything in the veiwport. I'm a complete dummy when it comes to animation.  Could someone tell me how to record what is happening in the veiwport, please?

I want to show ya'll this hip in action.  You know how you can swivel your hip around like with a hoola hoop, while basicaly keeping the shoulders straight?  Well, I have been trying to build this ability into a rigg for a long time and this is one of the things you can now do with this rigg. Anyway if I can figure out how to record the veiwport I'll show you.

Anyone? 
Could someone help phantom3D, please?
I wanna see this.

Well, basically you create an animation by selecting so called 'key' frames in the animation bar at the bottom of your Poser window and pose the figure for each of those frames. Poser will then interpolate between those poses to create an animation. You can check out the animation by moving the frame slider back and forth. Once you're satisfied, select 'Make movie...' in the Animation menu. That's pretty much it.

So for example to make an animation in which your figure moves their arm up and down, you select frame 1, put your figure in the start position, then select frame 15, raise the arm, the select frame 30 and put the arm back where it was.

The next question of course would be where and how to post it. I think I've seen people post animations in the forums but apparently I can't do the necessary incantations.

Thanks odf,  I tried this and the avi comes out at 17 MB no way I can post that here so have to figure out where or how to get it much smaller. LOL. A flash show of the same is only 2.5 MB but is like a cartoon.