NOTE: I am posting this in both the Vue and Poser forums in hope of obtaining the most feedback. I wanted to make sure Vue users saw this because I have several important questions specifically for Vue users.

Hello,

I am seeking feedback from any artists out there that are intermediate or advanced users. What I am in the middle of starting is 3D stories. Mainly, I am a writer, but have learned a fair amount of Poser Pro and am looking to get into Vue and Adobe Photoshop. At this time, I would say I am about an intermediate user as I always learn something from someone all the time.

What I would like to know, is what are the best tools and methods for creating my "worlds"? Think of it like a comic book, only I am going with the most advanced tools out there for Poser, Vue, etc. to achieve the best realism I can. That means I need software and packages for the software that allow me to construct these "worlds" with anything I imagine.

Vue -

I have started learning Vue using their demo trial software and am seriously considering the Vue 7 "Infinate" package. It goes without saying Vue is great for outdoor and scenery renders, but what about interior renders? I need anything and everything for my "worlds" ranging from skies with spaceships to luxury indoor realistic looking rooms. How would I construct these "rooms" for interiors using Vue and some aftermarket packages? I have only done outside stuff with Vue and could use some help here for inside realistic renders and what the basics are for doing them. I know Vue integrates well with Poser and since I am using the most current Poser Pro that should work well together.

How do I make "rooms" with Vue for wall art, torches, etc? Are there add-on packages in the marketplace with tools someone else made to aid in such things as room construction and furnature?

Photoshop CS4 -

I plan to also use Photoshop CS4 for my post work to bring it all together and final editing. What I am still torn between is do I need the 3D features of the "extended" edition? What I need to do is work with my finished scene using "layers" in Photoshop which is fairly standard and to use "brushes" to paint directly on the characters for my effects (i.e. wounds, blood, tatoos, etc.) Will "extended" allow me to paint directly on my Poser figures by importing them or can I do those basic things using the "standard" CS4 version and save some money?

Thanks for your advice and input.Hello,

I am seeking feedback from any artists out there that are intermediate or advanced users. What I am in the middle of starting is 3D stories. Mainly, I am a writer, but have learned a fair amount of Poser Pro and am looking to get into Vue and Adobe Photoshop. At this time, I would say I am about an intermediate user as I always learn something from someone all the time.

What I would like to know, is what are the best tools and methods for creating my "worlds"? Think of it like a comic book, only I am going with the most advanced tools out there for Poser, Vue, etc. to achieve the best realism I can. That means I need software and packages for the software that allow me to construct these "worlds" with anything I imagine.

Vue -

I have started learning Vue using their demo trial software and am seriously considering the Vue 7 "Infinate" package. It goes without saying Vue is great for outdoor and scenery renders, but what about interior renders? I need anything and everything for my "worlds" ranging from skies with spaceships to luxury indoor realistic looking rooms. How would I construct these "rooms" for interiors using Vue and some aftermarket packages? I have only done outside stuff with Vue and could use some help here for inside realistic renders and what the basics are for doing them. I know Vue integrates well with Poser and since I am using the most current Poser Pro that should work well together.

How do I make "rooms" with Vue for wall art, torches, etc? Are there add-on packages in the marketplace with tools someone else made to aid in such things as room construction and furnature?

Photoshop CS4 -

I plan to also use Photoshop CS4 for my post work to bring it all together and final editing. What I am still torn between is do I need the 3D features of the "extended" edition? What I need to do is work with my finished scene using "layers" in Photoshop which is fairly standard and to use "brushes" to paint directly on the characters for my effects (i.e. wounds, blood, tatoos, etc.) Will "extended" allow me to paint directly on my Poser figures by importing them or can I do those basic things using the "standard" CS4 version and save some money?

Any other thoughts appreciated.

Thanks for your advice and input.

You may want to wait and see what Vue Complete offers you.  It will have all the "cool" features of Infinite, but not some of the more advanced items that you don't need right from the start.  It will cost less.  Should be released around the end of the month.

Content - don't forget that Poser, DAZ Studio, and many other 3d format content are very easy to import into Vue.  From these you can get a wide variety of buildings and rooms, funuiture, etc.

The new Vue 7 does a fantastic job of interior renders.  So did Vue 6, but 7 is much faster.

I just posted a reply to you in the thread you started in the Poser forum, you might want to check it out!!
Vue rocks basically!!

Ok, some tips, I do a sort of graphic novel fantasy story using Vue:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/wildspace/index.htm

since I use the same characters again and again, I save not only each model in Vue format, but also, most importantly, their materials!

Since their main apparel doens't change much, to give continuation, I save their materials in specific folders, thus I can load and apply them easily.
I spend a lot of time getting materials right, raw imported Poser materials are crap, for my tastes. Hence my tutorial on that subject:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/tutorials/htm/18.html

Vue can do external and internal renders, and things Poser can't dream of!
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/wildspace/characters/characters2realism.jpg

Vue is not a "magic button" that will do everything for you, like any tool, you will need ot learn it.
There's many tricks and tips to help and speed up your work, check my tutorials, GeekAtPlay and AsileFX, plus plenty of users here on Rendrosity and Cornucopia3D etc.

It's taken me 9? or so years of work, going from Bryce ,to Vue7, to get where I am now in terms of skill. Much I've learned lately, and Vue is just such a damned good piece of kit it helps a ton.

I'd EXTREMELY recommend getting Jeremy Birn's book "Digital Lighting and Rendering Second Edition"
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Lighting-Rendering-2nd-digital/dp/0321316312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226466206&sr=1-1
this applies ot all 3D work, not just Vue.
Lighting is crucial.

Vue is not a good model maker. You can make rooms using cubes, "booleans" and terains.
Basically, say you want a panneled door.
make a cube, scale/size it. Then, make cubes to "cut out" where the panels would be.

Terrains are driven by greyscales, so, if You make a greyscale image of a door, it's bump as it were, sticking out of the centre line, that will "Push out"  the door panelling.
Same trick isused in Bryce terrian modelling. You can use 16 bit greyscales for smooth precision.

You cna also use metablobs to form shapes, I used metablobs of spheres, to create this "drool" onthe monster's mouth, them "baked them to polygons" to form one soild object.
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/htm/characters.htm

For walls, it's simple, just use a cube and apply an image as a texture map ;)

Hwoever, for most modelling I use "Rhino3D" a very expensive model making package (I got it cheap at college), other folk use WIngs3D (free), Silo (low price), Hexagon (low or VERY low price), Zbrush, Mudbox etc etc.
This is my RHino3D page,showing often how my building work of projects progressed:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/rhino/rhino3d.htm

CS4 Extended lets you paint textures onto 3Dmodels. I have it but not used much yet.

I'm going ot be honest, you have taken a lot on your plate if you wish to learn to use Vue, AND model AND texture.
But you can do so: I did! And so have many others. It is just not something you'll learn over night, as a fair warning :)

Get Vue first, learn to enjoy creating scenes.
CS4 or Extended, will let you do your postwork.
Modellign is a complex issue, btu a very enjoable one for me perosnally, as it reminds me of being younger and making Meccano models etc ;)

If you have plenty of cash another thing to consider is "Particle Illusion", as yet, Vue doesn't have a particle system, which are used ot make all kinds of special effects.
you can fake it, in postwork, or using special objects, etc in Vue, for example, I used an alpha plane with a fire image I bought here on Renderosity to make this pic:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1778138

Particle Illusion is added in postwork, sort of like using plugins in Photoshop, over the top of either a sitll image OR an animation (which is where it's so useful).
These pics of mine show Particle Illsuion special effects added for spells and fireballs etc:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1744712
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1667095
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1607043

You export an image, then load it as a backgorund in Particle Illusion, and apply a "particle effect" over the top. Wondertouch have tons of free libraries of effects you can download for their app.
I'm, lucky I got Particle Illusion2 SE for free on a magazine cover years ago ;)
You cna also of course, use it with Poser or any image from Photoshop etc.

Hope that helps! :)

Here's my two cents worth:
I would use Daz Studio.  I don't use it, but it will do a very competant job for what you want especially since you will have to  bring all of your rendered images into Photoshop and re-do everything the render did.

Poser is great, but it might be more than you need just to render a figure.

Vue is great, but it will contribute to your work only if you need atmospheres, vegetation, large vistas, cities etc.  For that, there is no better solution that is easier.  Plus, for poser figures, Poser and DS render those types of models better.

Photoshop CS 4 is great for all of your image editing.  the extended version is also good, but it doesn't necessarily replace the non extended one.  Even if you bring a figure into extended, retexture it, you will have to save it as a obj. model then load it back into poser or DS then assign the textures etc.  If you just use CS 4 and manipulate your texture maps, then all you have to do is save them and reassign to the model in Poser/ DS.  It might actually be quicker.  If you want the coolest tuts on Photoshop CS3/4 and extended, check out Planet Photoshop.  Those guys are top in their fields.

You say you have Poser Pro?  Stick with it.  It will render your characters better than VUE. 
I would render your figures in Poser and your backgrounds seperately.  Composite the images in Photoshop and blend them together.  I am presuming of course you are going for a "comic" book look.

I bet it took you years to become an accomplished writer, learning how to drive a story, introduce characters, build up a story behind them etc.  The same will go for your graphic skills.  Just be patient and give it some time to develope your style and talents with the software and it will come together.

A few comments.

Currently there are some issues with the connection between Vue (any version including 7) and Poser Pro, these issue will be fixed in the next service release of Vue 7 (so they promise us), not sure they will be fixed for any other version of Vue.

Is general when you need extreme close-up shots of characters rendering in Poser will yield better results but it may cause some problems with consistent skin textures, so it may be better to render these shots in Vue also. Anything shot from some distance will look better when rendered in Vue (this includes interior shots), this is my opinion, some may disagree. Outside shots will always look better in Vue (i don't think anyone will disagree).

Many rooms and room construction kits exist for Poser, these can be set up in Poser and imported into Vue. For many shots you would like to keep the room simple as to focus on the characters. It is often better to suggest something being there with a simple texture than to actually have a model of it. Lighting should look real without actually being really projected from the actual light sources.

Anything on your character (like blood, wounds, tattoos) should be put on the character texture map and should not be added in post work. Post work should be limited to compositing pictures and adding text and icons, this can be handled by simple programs. Editing texture maps is a bit more complex and would require a paint program with proper layer systems.

In addition to Poser and Vue most people need some kind of story boarding program (although I do this with hand drawn paper sketches). Investigate this and think about some kind of director program, since you are bound to include short animations soon. When using a computer medium to tell a 3D comic story it is easy to mix the single shots of the story (which advance the story without having to fill all the gaps) with short animations (which create a feeling of dynamic action). Forget about paper output, that is so yesterday.

Keep in mind that even a short story needs many shots, each shot should be set up quickly and render in short time. Only a few big shots may require a bit more attention. There is story to be told and it is about the story, it is not a series a very detailed pictures. In real live when watching something you will focus on the action, the background is just a blur, in stories the action should get all the attention and detail, the rest just fills the background, unless the story is set in a specific location, then the location should be accurate and detailed.

Thanks for all the GREAT and detailed replies to me for help in getting this lined out. You guys are very kind and I just wanted to say so because there is a LOT of useful information here. In fact, I am saving them for my notes to refer to.**

jfbeute, GaryMiller**, silverblade33 and others, THANK YOU!

Yes, it will be a fairly BIG task, but one I think I will truly enjoy when all is said and done. I don't plan to create my own models from the ground up if I can help it, only do some custom characters using Poser Pro with the built-in morphs for figures like V4, M4, etc. As most know, you simply don't have time to do it all and everything takes time. My main concern is focusing on the story and bringing it to life. I don't want the main reason for doing this to suffer and spending too much time trying to make models, textures, etc. will mean I compromise myself somewhere and I don't want it to be my story. Therefore, I am planning to get by with Poser Pro, Vue, Photoshop CS4 and perhaps Z Brush to do the main work load.

I do have an intermediate knowledge of Poser Pro and have used Z Brush to fine tune some figures like the DAZ V4 head to get a look not possible in Poser alone. I first get the basic look in Poser Pro using the morphs, then export the V4 head as an ".obj" and import into ZBrush for the work. I know ZBrush does allow you to do a LOT more work and make your own models and textures too, but like I said, you can only do do much due to time and some sacrafices have to be made somewhere. Besides, doeing a model like M4, V4 would take years alone to figure out and make otherwise wie would se MUCH more variety in the market than just the main DAZ figures (which are VERY good).

I have also done editing of texture maps in Photoshop before and used it to paint on body hair for color matching with the hair color of the figure and also some other skin texture edits. As someone pointed out above, I do plan to use Photoshop to sort of merge the layers together and polish it up. Use Poser Pro rendered to a .PNG file or export into Vue depending upon the scene.

I have just started learning Vue and found some GREAT tutorials as well over at the Lynda.com learning site. They have CS4 help as well for both Phostoshop CS4 and Dreamweaver CS4 now up.

The story -

Right now, I have about 80+ pages done for the first part of my story which takes place over the course of 3 seperate arcs. As it stands now, there is simply no way to translate it all, nor do I feel it would truly work best from either a writer's stand point or artist's view trying to do so. That is why I have made the final decision to publish the completed work as novel only and do the hgihlights as mentioned for the main parts in the art.

I have been a free-lance writer in the past and hate to admit it, but rarely do I make a truly structured outline. That's why I mainly put my basic ideas down on paper then I simply sit at my computer and let the words appear as I go. That way when I get inspired and am on a roll I don't box myself in and can freely explore what it is I am dreaming up.

**silverblade33-

**Just wanted to say I checked out your work and I know how long and hard it is to do that sort of thing. Thanks also for the reply and posting links to what you do. Very nice to see what other are doing and to share in all the creative talent out there.

3DNeo,
my pleasure mate and I hope yer project goes well :)

Yup, it is a lot of work! But fun ;) If oyu can work out what oyur final intentions/design will be like, you can work out whether quick/easy way  (render inside poser with backdrops and sets) is best, or import into Vue (whcih IS admittedly longer), or something else.

Note I build characters in Psoer, soemtimes use Photoshop to make specific clothing deisgns or whatever, Import to Vue and spend lot of time getting materials how I like them, and after rednering in Vue, do postwork, for my story, that's cartoonifying it...I don't like "cell shading" in Vue. I preffer my own style. Longer to do but looks "good" to me.

In the end, all down to what is good for you, personally :)

By the way, CS4 Extended, I don't know about CS4 (as I don't have that) has depth fo field filter, now, as a filter, it's great! You can render out a greyscale Z Depth map, in Vue, then load that into your "alpha channel" in CS4, and start the filter, chose the Alpha Channel, and then set the "in focus point" based off the depth map.

What this means is, it's a cheap, easy way to get Depth Blur! ;) so if you want a image ot have depth fo focus, it's easier than the LONG render time for it in Vue and you can adjust it at will

Didn't have time to read all the other comments, so sorry if I repeat.

I gave up on the dated, annoying and time-consuming interface of Poser and am only using DAZ Studio (D|S) now. Latest version is quite good and so much easier to use than Poser. It imports perfectly to Vue, although it doesn't have the (often buggy) back-and-forth features that resulted form e-on and Poser engineers collaborating. I don't mind at all giving up the Poser-Vue integration, in order to get the much better D|S. On the other hand, I'm not a figure specialist - most of my images have figures in them, but at mid to long distance, not "portraits".

I get most models from DAZ (I find being a "Platinum" member for 3D model discounts to be a good value), and from Cornucopia 3D (as e-on's official Vue site, it's a "must-use"). Rendo here is also good - especially for clothing and female figures. And Monsoon (moderator of Vue forum at 3D Commune forum has several fantastic tool kits or sets and is a master at fire type effects in vue - and lots else). Another well-known and amazing commercial modeler "Stonemason" - try a Google search. He sells on DAZ.

A must-have product for Vue is "SkinVue" - from Cornucopia. It will give your figures skin materials very superior to the default ones.

I agree with your choice of V7i (and with Peggy's post too, since I'm not that familiar with the version differences - I have Infinite). V7 has an improved render engine and radiosity, etc. and my experiments show much improved interior renders Vs V6. They can be great. You might check out the "Lighting Challenge" at CGTalk (another good forum). It's to be judged in early January and is an interior of the London Natural History Museum. I expect several Vue submittals (mine being one). There are some posts about it here.

Chipp Walters is the master of modeling inside Vue (and he sells some tools to help), but most people like to sculpt in a 3D modeling tool and import to Vue. My favorite is Silo 3D, but a modeling tool decision  is very personal. Lots of post in Vue fora about that.