@jeffg3, not sure if you're aware of this, the skin shader has a built in gamma correction. Using Poser Pro and the shader doubles up on the gamma correction. If you're using the newest version of the shader (the one with all the settings organized on the left side of the material window) setting PM:Gamma to 1.0 will turn off the shader's gamma correction. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tip.  I'm trying to hunt that setting down.

Can you give me a pointer as to where it is?
Is it under "Template Skin'?

Edit: I found it - thanks!!!

(Had to look for anything with a 2.2 setting.)

Get the PR3 shader. Look for the parameter nodes in the Template Skin. Do you see PM:Shine? Raise that to 1.

Here's what it looks like on M4. I increase the PM:Bump to .5 because M4 bump maps are weak. If the shine on your figure looks too even, increase the PM:Bump.

Is this the look you wanted? This is wet. If you want oiled, we have to switch to a Glossy node.

Here's a nice big portrait. This is PM:Shine=2.5 and PM:Shine Spread=2.

I think it looks pretty wet.

Click for full size.

The poor quality of the sample bump map that comes with free M4 is evident here. You should get better results with a better bump map.

Quote - For some reason I've stopped getting notified on this thread so I thought that was a good reason to post an image. First, sorry BB, but this is one of those cute Fairie images....;). Skin was shaded using the latest skin shader and VSS prop. I spent a few weeks (off and on) tweaking skin settings and playing with the lighting. It's not perfect but not bad for a pure render (IMHO).

Damn fine image, even if it is a fairie :)

Quote - I did postwork the image a bit in Photoshop, mostly to correct joint issues and attempt to breathe life into lifeless Poser hair...  the attached image is a comparison of the untouched render and the final image.  Link is to a larger version of the final.

I'm late to this party (appropriately, perhaps, for my username), but I wanted to add my praises and a million thanks to bagginsbill for sharing VSS with us.

I've been using Poser for a long time, but ended up taking a hiatus for various reasons including my own frustrations with its limited capabilities.  I recently got back into the program and upgraded to Pro, but it was really my stumbling across this thread and testing out VSS that inspired me to update my gallery (and post in a thread) for the first time in 4 years.

Technical notes: rendered in Poser Pro (with gamma correction) at max settings on a Mac, using the PR3 shader and bagginsbill's indoor lights.  Comments are welcome. :)

I like this a lot. However, I notice that there is some uneven coloring. This is probably due to the simultaneous use of GC in the shader and in Poser Pro. If you're using Poser Pro built-in GC, then you need to change my template shaders and set the Gamma to 1.

On the PR3 skin shader this is easy to find. On the other shaders (eyes) you have to find the math node with a 2.2 in it.

Thanks for all that info!!!

Now I'm gonna have to go back and fix the other one. :P

Thanks again for pointing that out!

a question about the skin shader.
when i make shine : 1 then the spucular is smaller. but the back_ specular from the backlight also gets smaller.

can we do wide back specular and small front specular?

I've been struggling with the make-up masks, and just have a quick question: the Blender will only do as its name implies: it blends. Right? So, to superimpose the result of one mask over another like, say, eyeliner over eyeshadow, I'll need to invoke a completely different node strategy.

Among other things, I tried replacing the Blender node with Color_Math (Add) but it weirded out the entire skin texture... can't just willy-nilly change/add a node, I quickly found out. They need to live in harmony with the other forty-million nodes.

Anyone want to suggest a tree to bark up?

i just use math subtract or add

Quote - i just use math subtract or add

For a mask that's meant to superimpose a colour on top of another mask?

Tried that.

Weirded out the entire 1_SkinFace region...

RobynsVeil,

We have a bit of confusion and it's mostly my fault. I told you to connect your blenders to the PM:Tint node. That node is ok for tinting, but not for replacing the color. It is used as a multiplier on the original color map.

You want to completely replace the color fo the skin, and we have to hook into a different place to do that sort of thing.

The Blender node does perform 100% replacement of one color with another when the mask is white. The problem we have here is that the color we're replacing is the tint color, not the actual skin color. Whatever we're connecting into the Tint node is just being multiplied and that can never completely replace the existing skin color.

We have to hook into the process before tinting occurs - right in front of the Color Map.

If you scroll right on the PR3 shader you'll find the color map. You have to hook into it in two places.

The Color Map connects to a Comp node and to a Color_Mul node. You need to connect your eyeliner Blender directly to the Color Map. Then you need to connect that to the two places the Color Map is currently going. Then you'll be completely replacing the color according to the mask.

But even that isn't going to totally work, because after that I apply spots. You don't want me to put the skin spots on top of your makeup color - you want me to leave that alone. Which means we need to replace the color in another place.

But then we will have bypassed the SSS component calculation, which means that it will still apply sss (redness) to the area which actually is covered by makeup and would not reveal any subsurface scattering.

All in all, I think you'll want me to make a new shader with the proper plug-in points for makeup.

I've run into an odd problem. I tried searching this thread for "bloat" or "swell" and didn't find anything. Here is an example. My character (David) is fine before applying VSS. His skin swells up after applying VSS2, no changes to the settings or anything. I've never had this happen before!

I'm using XP, Poser 7, and the suggested render settings for "great" results. Any ideas where to start trouble shooting?

kfox - go into the Skin Template on the VSS prop and disconnect anything from the displacement node and then synchronise, see if that fixes it.

Nevare - HA! That did it alright. Thanks a bunch!  Kfox

Funny - I just did a rendo forum search of "VSS bloat" ...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3311437&ebot_calc_page#message_3311437

I still can't make the NO_MAP thing stop happening. Otherwise, I would have given you guys an updated VSS script.

It's a real puzzle.

BB - I just used "bloat" in my search. Tried it again just now and got the same 4 non relevant results - plus my post and your reply. You'd think it should work... Sorry for the interuption.

Oh my stars - woke up in the middle of the night knowing why the search didn't work. I forgot to change the age paramters. Boy, do I feel stupid. Sorry for the repeat folks.

Does anyone know why VSS would cause my figures in Textured display mode to "white-out" ???

What I mean by "white-out" is that after applying VSS (Vss3) my figures displays totally white - like with 100% white ambient, totally flat lighting. I'm using Poser Pro 7.0.4 (latest patch).

This even persists to a intermittent degree if I switch to simple smooth shaded mode.

I feel like this has been asked before, but I could find anything in this monster thread (oh how I wish you could search within a thread!!!)

Thanks!!

Hi Bill... very keen to see your next shader. I thought just for laughs (and to see if I can follow instructions any better) I'd go ahead and try to hook up those nodes like you were starting to suggest - was this what you had in mind?

In any event, not quite working yet:

...Charlotte with eyelashes hidden so you can see the eyeliner still fade into the eyeshadow...

...but then, you did say it wouldn't... never the less, WHAT an incredible SHADER!!! I'm rapt!

Quote - Does anyone know why VSS would cause my figures in Textured display mode to "white-out" ???

What I mean by "white-out" is that after applying VSS (Vss3) my figures displays totally white - like with 100% white ambient, totally flat lighting. I'm using Poser Pro 7.0.4 (latest patch).

This even persists to a intermittent degree if I switch to simple smooth shaded mode.

I feel like this has been asked before, but I could find anything in this monster thread (oh how I wish you could search within a thread!!!)

Thanks!!

Yup, sure do... you just need to hook the Diffuse_Color on the PoserSurface main thingie into the Color_Map node... you can actually see it in the image just above...

Hey RobynsVeil, neat way to do eyeliners, are those your shaders?...

No, definitely not my shaders - wish I was that clever, Jartz... they're Bill's. The masks are mine...

That's neat to know,  I wish I can master the VSS for myself, still using the PR2 as PR3 can be tricky at times.  It's neat trick you did.

As you can tell from reading this thread (wanna go back a dozen or so pages??) the idea of doing make-up is really very much part of Bill's baby... he generously gave me a few pointers on where to plug in what... to kinda give me a taste for what he's doing and where his shaders (and ultimately, to some degree, VSS) are going and because he knew I wanted to play. Thank you, Bill.

Let there be no mistake: Bill's the master of this craft, and I, but the sorriest of fumbling apprentices. (accurate depiction, Bill? I kinda think so!) He knows these nodes by heart and knows not only how they all play together but what would need to happen for any new parameters (like what I'm wanting to do: superimpose one texture over another) to work properly. I'll go ahead and develop masks - I can always do that - but structuring nodes is a little (okay, a LOT) beyond me, and it's not for lack of trying. I've put the obligatory hi-res ball up and played with adding nodes, trying different maths stuff and fooling around, but it certainly wasn't a very structured, scientific approach. It would be great for someone somewhere between Bill's awesome brain-force and us Neanderthals to kinda provide an introduction to this in a way that makes nodes and what they do meaningful to us in a Poser-focused manner. Yes, I know specular. Know what diffuse does. Can set up transparency. It's when you decide you're not going with the PoserSurface diffuse connection - you're going to use Alternate_Diffuse (and why) and then... well, realizing from which direction nodes should be analysed. We End UP at the PoserSurface MegaNode, but where did we start?

The ImageMap?
I guess.

When I first had a look at the Material Room, I didn't get that concept of 'feeding' at first: a node feeds another some colour or texture information, which get processed along with whatever else that node deals with... and then THAT information then gets fed to another node.

This is why my eye-liner is still fading into my eyeshadow. Yes, I could kludge this and make sure my masks didn't overlap, but I know there is a way for one shader set to have eminence over another... gotta be.

 HI,
I’ve been looking at tis the last few days, and I’m rather impressed in what it can do. What I am having problems with is darker skin textures - they seem to come out overly red or just too light. I’ve tried tinkering with the tint and SSS colours (I’m using the newest version of the shader), but with little luck. The skin colours end up looking grey - I can’t seem to get the colours I’m after.

The image used for the texture is close to the colour I want, but I’m not sure what settings I need to use to restore those colours in the shader. If I want a caucasian/northern European skin colour, I can get it.

I saw a render of a green figure here done with VSS, along with the settings, but I can’t find it. 

I have come across this problem myself and have come up with a solution which I have yet to post.  Unfortunately, I am away from my main computer at home so I can't give you precise pointers.  There was a mention here within this thread about someone obtaining a gray texture in the preview window.  The recommendation there was to connect the image-map to the Poser node.  I haven't tried that yet but let me see if I can pull something up for this evening.

 HI,
it’s not the preview I’m having problems with - it’s the final render where the problem arises. I’m not at my main machine either - when I am, I’ll see if I can get a couple of renders together to show what the problem is.

@hairydalek:  I understand what you are implying.  I also had the same problem with the LK-Lyra texture for V4 by lkiilerich.  This vendor uses node shaders for the skin texturing so essentially I'm replacing one set of nodes for another.  I don't know which version of Poser you are using but I'm going to assume you are using PoserPro.  The reasoning is that what you are encountering is actually over gamma correction applied both the VSS nodes and the Poser render settings. 

Hopefully I'm doing this correctly, the included image are renders performed with IBL white @ 20% accompanied with 1 White Spot Light @ 40 % Intensity.  Left image is the base texture, center is rendered with VSS, Gamma Correction 2.2, and right image rendered with VSS, Gamma Correction 1.  As you can see, the center image is somewhat acceptable but has an overall gray appearance and is considerably lighter than it's counterpart on the left.

By going into the material room and changing the GC from 2.2 to 1.0, not only do you restore the skin textue but you improve the quality of the render.

The above image shows the GC node and the change encircled.

hb,

The leftmost one, "Lyra Base Skin Texture", is that rendered with just the color maps, or with the shader it comes with?

You're absolutely correct that if you have Poser Pro GC enabled, you should not be using GC in the shaders. I provided those values by default for the rest of the Poserverse.

I'm trying to figure out if, in the shader, i can detect what GC is set to for Poser. I think I know how. In this way, I can make the shader self-adjusting for Pro versus P7.

BB,

Yes, the left most was rendered with the shader provided by the vendor.  As a matter of fact, I was completely dumbfounded when I rendered the texture the first time with VSS.  Afterward, I attempted some changes with node values and came pretty close to matching the original skin texture but not quite to satisfaction.  The GC came to me after doing some other reading on other posts.

I would like to take this opportunity to a link to my latest image in the gallery using VSS.  It gives a little bit more reality to the characters.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1794377

Quote - I would like to take this opportunity to a link to my latest image in the gallery using VSS.  It gives a little bit more reality to the characters.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1794377

**Awesome image, **hborre!  Lois is the most realistic looking figure I've seen in a while.

And, she looks just like the current TV Lois Lane.

Good Job!******
**

Thanks **jdredline. ** I actually created the facial morph for Lois Lane from Erica Durance's photos.  The likeness is pretty close.

Quote - @hairydalek:  I understand what you are implying.  I also had the same problem with the LK-Lyra texture for V4 by lkiilerich.  This vendor uses node shaders for the skin texturing so essentially I'm replacing one set of nodes for another.  I don't know which version of Poser you are using but I'm going to assume you are using PoserPro.  The reasoning is that what you are encountering is actually over gamma correction applied both the VSS nodes and the Poser render settings. 

Hopefully I'm doing this correctly, the included image are renders performed with IBL white @ 20% accompanied with 1 White Spot Light @ 40 % Intensity.  Left image is the base texture, center is rendered with VSS, Gamma Correction 2.2, and right image rendered with VSS, Gamma Correction 1.  As you can see, the center image is somewhat acceptable but has an overall gray appearance and is considerably lighter than it's counterpart on the left.

By going into the material room and changing the GC from 2.2 to 1.0, not only do you restore the skin textue but you improve the quality of the render.

Hi,
yes - it was Gamma. Thanks for the post.

I thought of this very late last night, but didn’t post until I had tried it out this morning. I had forgotten that this was in the VSS as well. Gamma Correction seems to be everywhere. So I had Gamme in the render AND the shaders, which of course made a right pig’s ear of the whole thing. Now that Gamme is back to 1 in the shaders, I’m getting what I expect. Phew!

There’s a lot of information here, and I was trawling this thread for clues about tinting textures - GC was not in my mind at that point.

Is there a way of automatically picking up the render settings GC and adjusting them in the VSS prop in Python? Maybe that’s a feature which needs to be added as a switch (on by default?).

I know exactly what you went through.  Glad to have made a difference. 

You could make your adjustments in the VSS prop and resave it into your library under a unique name.  Although you will accumulate several custom props that way, it is perhaps the best way until the general version becomes available.

Quote - I know exactly what you went through.  Glad to have made a difference. 

You could make your adjustments in the VSS prop and resave it into your library under a unique name.  Although you will accumulate several custom props that way, it is perhaps the best way until the general version becomes available.

That’s what I’m doing. I also tend to save finished figures to my library as well just in case they are useful in the future. That way, I know I have a reference to go back to.

I’m very impressed by what VSS’s shaders can do - I could lose hours to it. Maybe it needs a health warning!

Hours - only hours? I've lost weeks!

 Well, here is my first comparison render. It’s Apollo Maximus.

To the left is the non VSS render. It’s the Latin skin texture, and I guess it looks very "Poser-ish" - quite dark, no real detail where you would expect it to be. To the right is the same file, but this time I’ve run VSS over it. I’ve tinted it a very slight green, just to stop it getting too red. It looks so much better - and what impresses me is the level of detail in there. The stubble looks far more convincing, and the detail in the eyebrows is much better. There is better skin definition too.

BB - I’ve only recently found this - so in relative terms, hours is about right for me. I should be working...

hairy:

Did you enable ray-tracing? I don't see any AO in the eyes. This will make a difference.
Are shadows enabled? I think they might be but the lighting is so subtle I'm not sure.

Also, for some silly reason you have to go into AM dials and turn on his eyelashes.

Quote - Does anyone know why VSS would cause my figures in Textured display mode to "white-out" ???

What I mean by "white-out" is that after applying VSS (Vss3) my figures displays totally white - like with 100% white ambient, totally flat lighting. I'm using Poser Pro 7.0.4 (latest patch).

This even persists to a intermittent degree if I switch to simple smooth shaded mode.

I feel like this has been asked before, but I could find anything in this monster thread (oh how I wish you could search within a thread!!!)

Thanks!!

One thing I found was that sometimes VSS gets confused which map to use. Especially Liquid Rust from DAZ has maps that have all textures in it. One thing I do there is before applying VSS I run the "Remove detached nodes" macro in the material window. That does the trick.

Yeah that's a problem. Once I get the GUI issues worked out, the next VSS will let you explicitly control which maps to use. It will have a button to "learn" the maps from those currently on the figure, but you'll be able to correct any mistakes, and save the entire set of maps as a separate document.

Then you'll be able to load your favorite map combinations directly in VSS from presets you define. You won't have to use original vendor mat-pose files anymore, once you teach VSS what you want to use.

Quote - hairy:Also, for some silly reason you have to go into AM dials and turn on his eyelashes.

I actually like that feature it makes custom eye lid morphs easier. I must admit though I occasionally forget to turn it on too.

He made me realize I wasn't doing enough of that.

Here ya go.

Be sure to click for full size - it is 1920 x 1200.

VSS PR3 shader with a few parameter changes. Two infinite lights and a very low IBL.