I have seen some people around who are selling there copies of Vue5 and Vue 6. Is this legal ? How do they go about it..and what would be a good price for Vue 6 Infinite :D

 Hmm

Ironically this was asked on CGTalk just a few days ago. 

As I said then, the best people to ask is E-On, I asked once before and was told the licence wasn't transferable and it couldn't be sold, but someone else seems to think you can sell it.

Ask E-On its the only way to find out for sure.

Good price for Vue 6 Infinite? Its a pretty depressed market at the moment, don't expect as much as you would get if the global economy was better.

Jon

I am going to upgrade to 7 Infinite soon, and find no practical use to have 6 Infinite amd 7 ya know. Maybe if i can sell it i can give a good price for it. I looked to see over at e-on what it was going for at the moment, and couldnt even find it for sale. I guess they discontinue it every year.

At some point during the installation of Vue 7 there's a message saying that you can not use Vue 6 anymore, if you are upgrading from it. So, if this is not legal, I would say it's even less legal to sell Vue 6. 

From the commercial point of view, it makes sense. After all, when you bought Vue 7 as an upgrade from Vue 6, you didn't pay the full price for Vue 7. So you really didn't buy Vue 7, so to speak, you bought the upgrade of Vue 6. From this point of view, it doesn't make sense to sell Vue 6, because that's your base. If you would have bought the full price for Vue 7, then it might be ok to sell Vue 6 because then you would have two independent products.

Just my two cents.

 If one planned on selling Vue 6 without e-on's permission (I know you didn't say that was your intention), then the person receiving it would want to be able to upgrade it-- or at least download the latest patches. So, you'd also have to sell him your member account-- thus defeating the purpose of being able to keep Vue 7 as well.

So, my point is without e-on's explicit permission, selling an older copy of Vue seems like a poor idea. Furthermore, if it were possible, then it would be a good idea for everyone to buy an old version of Vue 6 in order to upgrade to Vue 7, then pass Vue 6 on to the next person wishing a copy of Vue 7, and so on, and so on.

I actually asked E-On about this regarding Vue 6 Pro Studio when I upgraded it to Vue 6 Infinite and the answer was a resounding no - you can't sell a copy that you use to do an upgrade

ok, can we GIVE it away then ? :D

 Not if you have used it to update to a newer version of Vue. Pretty sure you still can't transer a licence even if you give it away. Though best people to ask really are E-On

Jon

Seems like a real waste to me what with all the people out there with amazing talent who simply cannot afford to be an artist...kinda say really. Just my opinion(;

In Europe it's legal to sell used software no matter what's in the license or what the software producer said.

Yeah, i live in Eastern Europe myself and copyright laws are nonexistant here as well. Games, movies you name it right out there for sale. I wouldnt however sell off or otherwise give away anything and do my part to support piracy if that be the case. I would need express permission or i wouldnt sleep well :D

 You won't get a definitive answer from anyone in this thread, the only people that "really" know are E-On, contact them, ask them your question, then come back here and let us know what they said.

I know what they said to me, FranktT knows what they said to him, but let us know what they say to you :) 

Jon

I am almost afraid to ask. I feel like when i asked my wife out the first time :D

I do not talk about piracy or warez or whatever but about things that are legal within the law. We do have copyright laws in Germany and since Germany has signed the Berne convention they are pretty much the same as elsewhere in other countries who have signed the Berne convention too but still it's legal for end customers to sell used software over here and in most other european countries too  - provided they delete every trace of it from their own computer.

There is an additional part in the copyright paragraph over here that especially deals with this and there are at least 3 court decisions available and each time the judges said it's ok for the end customer to sell the used software. So if I would want to sell my old copies of Vue I'd do so without needing to ask anyone because it's my right to do so.

I wasnt saying Germany promotes piracy. I have a good friend who is from Cologne and he keeps me up on everything that goes on. I have been to many countries and know for fact that laws are VERY different in SE Asia,Africa and here in Eastern Europe all over.In fact in Indonesia they have warez stores in the malls over there. I do not think it will ever end, and i am an avid gamer and tire of paying high ass prices for low end titles these days due to piracy.

My software i do not mind paying whatever for, as it makes me money. But fragging zombies has yet to pay the bills :D

Quote - it's legal for end customers to sell used software over here and in most other european countries too  - provided they delete every trace of it from their own computer.

You might find the rules concerning software used to upgrade to another version might be different to just selling an unused copy.  I seem to remember E-On would have been ok with me selling a copy that wasn't used to upgrade but ICBW.

As has been said many times - check with E-On - the worst they can do is say no

Chudo,
oh games, for PC anyway, are fair priced, £25 for 25 to 300 hours of fun? bloody hell that's cheap! :)
compare ot music, DVD etc, per hour, or any other activity.
I'm happy to pay when it's FAIR.

What rips me up, is the price for apps, including Vue, grrr. It's STUPID as well as ridiculous.
Sell 'em cheaper, get more users, sell more content, everyone'd be happy! :)

What we really need is some ability to pay for soft goods, based on what the LOCAL real world value of items and wages are.

You cannot expect Joe_001 in India, to pay $500 for Vue, when his wages are 1/4 what we get in Europe!
Thats' why Microsoft was forced to sell their products so cheap in Asia, piracy was the only way folk could afford them because MS had the same stupid way of looking at consumers as victims.
here we have monopolies and the lousy, anti-consumer practices dominating us. See for example, DVD "Regions"...which was just a neat trick to rip us off.

In a sane world, folk would pay based on their actual wealth. Remember, it's software we're talking about, that can be sent digitally, no raw materials of limited resources like rare metals used up, so soft goods are not the same as hard goods.
You can't, for example, make a billion copies of a platinum ring, platinum is real, rare, very limited quantity and delivering it takes a lto of resources, but electrons and photons? pfft no problem!

In that sane world, rather than dropping bombs, we'd drop laptops and mobile phones into troubled areas of the world, and set upcell masts and the like, so ignorance would be stamped out (ignorance is the REAL threat, not terrorism, drugs etc, its ignorance that fuels those damned horrors, wipe out igorance, you'd eliminate most religious extremism, xenophobia etc),
In that sane world, folk would pay say  3days wages equivalent for Vue Infinite...E-on would have 100 MILLION customers...and everyone would be happy!

One day folk will wake up out of the zombified state our societies are in, sigh
Sorry for derail ;)

You have to remember that there is a difference between the media (plus manual) and the license that you need to use software.
This is particularly important when there is some form of online activation scheme.

Selling the media after having removed any installations and destroying any backups is legal, but as useful to the buyer as a chocolate teapot if they can't get a license transfer.

 Noel,

Of course you are correct. Having the install disks won't do anyone any good unless they can get the Activation code, which they will need to register at e-on in order to receive.

Good point.

After upgrading to Vue Pro Studio ver 7, I'd like to sell my version 7 and keep 6.5... Too many bugs in version 7 and too many broken promises from e-on... I feel they are not delivering on their promises....

 I suppose you're the same Ken Morris who has been complaining over at e-on's forums for the past few weeks. I and others have tried helping you but you still just want to vent. How about giving it  a rest? You've established you're not happy with e-on. So, complain to them. I don't really want to hear about it anymore.

Sorry if I offend you Chip but I've owned Vue since version 3. I've only started to complain with the release of version 7. I paid for something and I expect it to work as advertised... I don't think my expectations are unrealistic...

AND Yes I've contacted e-on via e-mail about my concerns....

 Complain away...

Don't listen to chipp or e-on.  Do what's right for you.

If you've been using since verion 3 you have more than a right.   

These forums are here to let people know what people think and do with the software.

I think e-on's upgrade price this year is extortion!  

Chipp you've been complaining about people complaining about vue for years and I've been complaining about it for years, so I know well.  It is a circle.

CobraEye, why do I have the feeling that you only post in this forum when you have the chance to say something bad about Vue and e-on? 

I could be wrong, but I don't remember any post from you where you say something constructive. I also noticed that in the last 2 or 3 times that we crossed our paths in this forum, I made concrete questions to you, or remarks about your comments, but you never replied. Maybe this is another such case... :-)

This time, I'm not complaining about you complaining, I'm just finding it funny. :biggrin:

 So, just for the record Ken,

You first complained you couldn't import SketchUp models in Vue. So, I helped out and sent you a link where you can download an .obj exporter for SketchUp, to which you complained about as well not working in SU7. So, I provided you information on how to contact the programmer of the plugin (which works) and more complaining. Then e-on responded by providing a fix for SU import, but you complained again that it didn't work with SU7. So another person mentioned 'just export as SU6 instead of SU7 as Google hasn't released an api for SU7 yet, so it's impossible to implement when Google hasn't provided the api.  You replied something about false advertising--which I find funny cause no where do I see where e-on says Vue imports SU7 files.

So, there's just no winning with you. I suppose you can expect others to be of more help than I in the future.

CobraEye, Rutra's right. Been awhile since I've seen a constructive post from you in these forums. How about let's all try and be helpful community members?

No apop is perfect, NONE.
Go check forums for other apps, and problems they have with them and then you might see things are not always greener on the other side of the hill...

MAC users seem to have the worst woes by a mile, with Vue. On a decent built and clean PC, you should have little problem with Vue, bar Murphy's law.
Most apps take 6 months or so get the bugs ironed out. Vue7s been very good for me since release. Vue 5 was a nightmare until about 6 months in. Vue 6 since 2 or 3 months in and was more stbale than Vue 5 was.

Folk who are happy don't complain, folk notice the "squeaky wheel".

Quote -  So, just for the record Ken,

You first complained you couldn't import SketchUp models in Vue. So, I helped out and sent you a link where you can download an .obj exporter for SketchUp, to which you complained about as well not working in SU7. So, I provided you information on how to contact the programmer of the plugin (which works) and more complaining. Then e-on responded by providing a fix for SU import, but you complained again that it didn't work with SU7. So another person mentioned 'just export as SU6 instead of SU7 as Google hasn't released an api for SU7 yet, so it's impossible to implement when Google hasn't provided the api.  You replied something about false advertising--which I find funny cause no where do I see where e-on says Vue imports SU7 files.

So, there's just no winning with you. I suppose you can expect others to be of more help than I in the future.

CobraEye, Rutra's right. Been awhile since I've seen a constructive post from you in these forums. How about let's all try and be helpful community members?

E-on does in fact say Vue imports skp files...

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_pro_studio/index.php?page=14&BaseProduct=Vue%207%20Pro%20Studio

the above is a link to the Comparative Chart....

Now please navigate to the Import/Export section and see under heading
Textured model imports as and skp is listed. No mention by E-on that it is ver 6 only models...

I'm NOT interested in work arounds. I paid for a product that does not do what it promises.  I fulfilled my obligation and paid every penny of the upgrade price. Now e-on must oblige and fulfill their obligation...

If a mechanic offered me a work around for a faulty transmission on a new car would that be acceptable? I think not...

I wonder how e-on would react if I short changed them a few dollars in the upgrade price...???

I truly believe e-on is bordering on misleading advertisement....

the Sketchup import function is only ONE of a few problems I have with the 'new & improved' Vue (Rendercow not working, rendering images to a black image, Vue 7 freezing, e out of memory mesages, etc).

Cheers

Kenmo

Quote - "If a mechanic offered me a work around for a faulty transmission on a new car would that be acceptable? I think not..."

Imagine this situation:

Imagine that you really liked that car, it was the last one on the stand and it was very unlikely that you would get a new one, no matter how loud you'd cry, because the manufacturer would only fabricate a new model in an undetermined time in the future.

Would you accept the workaround or prefer not to have the car you loved and wait for the new model?

If, of course, you don't love the car, that's another story... Personally, I love my "car"... :-)

It would not be acceptable. AND if  you visit my gallery you would see I am very much an auto enthusiast...!!!!

Quote - > Quote - You replied something about false advertising--which I find funny cause no where do I see where e-on says Vue imports SU7 files.

E-on does in fact say Vue imports skp files...

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_pro_studio/index.php?page=14&BaseProduct=Vue%207%20Pro%20Studio

the above is a link to the Comparative Chart....

Quite correct, it says it supports SketchUp 6, nothing about 7 -

Quote - SKP: SketchUp™ 6 object file format (Win32 only).

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_pro_studio/?page=11

If, as said above, Google haven't released the necessary info, then it's not E-ons fault that Vue doesn't support SketchUp 7. More than likely they'll add in support once Google provides that info.

Well..it's not even importing alot of the ver 6 sketchup models....

This is mostly because some Sketchup models are poorly designed.  Same with 3DS models - you import them and they explode parts all over the place.  It depends on how the model was made. 

I know the work around to 3DS (requires you have 3D Studio to fix), but have not really played much with Sketchup to see what would correct them. 

They don't explode...they just don't open.... and Vue displays a message warning me....

I've also had VOB files not opening in Vue... ;-) And OBJs... and 3DS...
Not opening some SKP file doesn't necessarily mean that Vue is the culprit. There could be something wrong in those files, that SU happens to accept well because it's its native format. Did you try to open them somewhere else, other than SU?

Post a link to a model that doesn't import.  I'll try it out and see what happens.

Until Vue 7 came out, I used to have a hell of a time with some VOB files - I could not get them to load no matter what I did - they all work like a charm now though 

 [OT]
I just want to thank all of you for chiming in, and in a helpful tone. It wasn't so long ago when Renderosity was filled with members looking to only harp on this or that problem with Vue-- and attack any who defended it. Things have certainly changed.

I know there are places where e-on and Vue can improve. A community like this, where constructive and helpful posts for those who have problems is sure a nice place to stop and visit now and then.

-C

I would suggest sending the offending model/models to EON.  I have done this in the past with 3ds etc.  They were able to nail down the problem & fix it up in a an update.

For example, when 7 & 6 came out various(not all) 3ds models were causing Vue to crash or hang up so I sent them a sampling of offending models...In the next update this was all fixed up.  Typically if you get the model in when EON issues a fix you can see the irregularities in the geometry ie odd verticies/odd welding/bad uvmaps/bad normals etc etc. 

IMO - send them the model/models you are having issues with.

Quote - Post a link to a model that doesn't import.  I'll try it out and see what happens.

Thanks...that is most kind... However I don't have a place to host them... I do have the FREE version of Google Sketchup ver 6 and the models open fine there. Even if I resave them Vue still chokes on them...

Even IF it's is a problem with the model I still have other issues with Vue ver 7 that has resulted in me e-mailing to e-on asking for a complete refund... Sorry but I've had it with this Vue & version 7. I'll stick to version 6.5.I t may not be able to import native skp files but it is stable and doesn't render a black square image....Down the road  I may even jump ship to  Bryce or Carrara... I'd love to purchase Cinema4D but that is beyond my fiscal means...I've been checking for an older version but no luck.... I do have ver 6 but it's a tad old...

Cheers & many thanks

Kenmo

PS: If you are really interested I did a search thru Sketchup ver 6 for free models and found DeuceChassis7.skp. It doesn't open in Vue but is fine in Sketchup....

Here's a few more I just tried...

Dodge charger srt8.skp
Burton.skp (Burton Castle, Vizcaya, Spain) by JIHS
Cottage by Freedom Artist

Cheers

Kenmo

you could always stick them up on shareCG - doesn't cost anything to host files there

But I would be posting models I am not the author of which would be in violation of  the agreement not to redistribute.....

I've posted models which are free from within the GoogleSketchup app... If anyone wants to try them, please feel free....

 Well, I downloaded the latest patch and sat down to try and import some skp files and see  if I couldn't create a recipe which could work for Ken. Something like 'make sure all groups and components are exploded BEFORE saving as .skp.

Sadly, as I'm on a Vista 64 machine, I can't do that. It turns out Google has only created a SketchUp importer for 32 OS'es and doesn't support 64-bit OS'es. 

Ken, here's how it works. SketchUp (and Poser and other apps) provide a software 'module' for importing geometry. Thinks of it as a black box, which only Google has the key to, and when you point this box at a .skp file, it will convert it to a format which can be understood by other apps. The converted format is something easy to import directly into Vue and other programs.

e-on licenses from Google this SketchUp black box. There are three ways which a .skp file import can go wrong:

1. The black box doesn't exist (as in Vista 64, Google's fault);
2. The black box can't convert a file (Google's fault);
3. The black box converts a file, but Vue can't read it; (This could be either Google's or Vue's fault)

In anycase, sending a link to one of the files you mention above should provide e-on with enough information to determine where the fault lies.

Even though I posted it on another forum, I'll post my current workaround to this dilema here for others to see:

Quote - I typically have not had much luck with the SU imports in any version of Vue. Instead, I export from SU as OBJ, then import into Vue: 

To convert from SU to Vue: 
Export from SU as OBJ (in SU 6!) with the following settings: 
(x) means check the checkbox 

X Export only current selection (optional) 
X Triangulate all faces 

X Swap YZ coordinates (Y is up) 
Units = inches 

Import into Vue the OBJ with the following settings. 

X Center object (leave off if you want to maintain center) 
X Resize object 
x Manual resizing = 0.254 

If you don't have a Pro version of SU, then it won't export to OBJ, so you'll need a free plugin-- which can be found at: 

http://sketchuptips.blogspot.com/2007/01/wavefront-obj-exporter.html 

HTH, 
Chipp

Thanks  Chip... This is the route I'll have to go as Vue 7.0 renders to a black square... So I;m using Vue Pro 6.5... Also I downloaded an eval copy of Sketchup Pro as the obj exporter doesn't work properly with the free version....

Can I ask why you don't mention checking off  "Export texture maps" ? By not checking off are the textures somehow "baked" onto the model?

Thanks kindly...

Ken

 Ken,

I don't export texture maps as typically the texture maps on SU models are really bad. I prefer to texture in either UVMapper Pro or directly in Vue.