ah I meant if you wanted exposer for studios like Pixar or ILM to see ya stuff you need to rule CGTalk.

If you can rule CGTalk post the badest most killer 3D art of all time you can right your own 3D ticket to any Studio in the world, where talking a lot of beer money  :)

The 3D Artist that created HULK are now 3D Gods. can go to any studio Wright how to manual ,open there own 3D School etc etc.

There set for life un less they do something monumently stupid like rag GL or something really stupid like that.or rag CGTalk like I do ;)

Any ways I do not have a attitude towards Poser.I like Poser it's fun and the forms are cool.

on pro forms Do not post a simple question that is on page 3592 to 3598 in the manual even thou it makes no since it's in the manual on a Max,Lightwave,C4D etc etc form or ya get RTFM or you should have paid $3000 for that 6 week class on learning Max,LW etc there are some cool ones that helps but I'll be damned there is always that one that post RTFM.

you have no idea how bad I want to crucify them make the passion of the Christ look like a Disney movie.

Do not post a OT or your get raged.

there are a lot of do not's

Pro's can be vicious to each other also.

Pro 3D Artist are the next step in the revaluation of sharks,There just fracken mean.

Anyway I like zBrush stuff but I do not consider it as hard as C4D.

but they do not rag zBrush as bad as Poser.

the reason Poser gets so raged is it did not take $5000 for the app, it did not take years to learn Poser.

1,000,000 3D Artist there is just a hand full that could model,map,texture,rig,V4 = in any of the fab 5 app's the very few that can

took them years of a lot of aggravation ,frustration etc etc.

took a few $100 and a week to make a Poser render.

there is a big skill level gap between making your own HULK and rendering premade V4 store got cloths, props in Poser.

they take it that Poser has not bleed enough so there going to make you bleed.

p.s. CGTalk has a add with a girls ass in the banner some of the CGTalk members are complain about,lol.

JenX,
well said :) I disagree with that part of the TOS, and general nudity ones, jeesh, but rules, and individuals are different, you view point is one I wish more folk shared.

Most scuzzballs in this world are made by bad parents and environments...if folk would only love more dominate less, play with, let their kids explore and think etc, well, be a much nicer world IMHO :)

As for the "elitism" on CG TALK etc.
That stuff is pathetic. who cares what someone uses ot make art, in the end, it'sonly the quality and impact of of the art that counts, not WTH they used to make it!
My mum's an amazing landscape and seascape artist, but since she uses acrylics, not oils....rolls eyes
still think Rolf Harris is amazing for the fun stuff he can do with markers or house paint! ;)

Quote - One day we'll grow out of worrying about genitalia...jeesh. Sorry, we're ALL born with 'em and nearly all of us have sex (or used ot...damn it! haha), so...what's the problem?
Bloody Puritans have a lot to answer for :p

And grats on being a grandpa and having your work used publicly!! :)

Used to be this Neo-Puritan Ethic was an American Disease...afterall, what can you expect from the nation responsible for founding Political Correctness and Intolerance for anything. It seems, unfortunately, to be spreading to Europe as well of late. Truly sad. Congrats on the addition to the family dude!

First to the original intent of this thread:  DP I'd love to see the image - please send me a site mail with the link if you could.
I've begun to work on a set of images that could probably use a posette or two in the background for filler.  Also I wonder where I can find and download the base model and morphs.

RE the rest of the thread....I don't want to comment on the "first amendment" part because I don't understand why people - pointedly Americans - don't read and comprehend their own government documents before quoting them in arguments.

But as far as literally being present each and every time your child uses the internet.  Well some people must simply have more time than me.  My fifteen year old and my twelve year old are both required to use the computer and internet for some school classes.  Now seeing how I have a job a house to run as well as three children a husband, ex husband and an ailing mother to take care of it would literally be outside of the realm of realistic for me to watch over their shoulders every time they used the computer.  The idea is actually laughable.  How about just instilling moral fortitude and trusting our children? 

Anyway just pointing out that, that particular shoe isn't a perfect fit for everyone.  Obviously you implement safeguards and check browsing histories periodically but to insinuate that a parent who is not eagle eying every move their children makes = slacking somehow struck me as slightly aggrivating

Quote -

But as far as literally being present each and every time your child uses the internet.  Well some people must simply have more time than me.  My fifteen year old and my twelve year old are both required to use the computer and internet for some school classes.  Now seeing how I have a job a house to run as well as three children a husband, ex husband and an ailing mother to take care of it would literally be outside of the realm of realistic for me to watch over their shoulders every time they used the computer.  The idea is actually laughable.  How about just instilling moral fortitude and trusting our children? 

I should have been more clear when I posted previously, but my post was more aimed at the people who actually troll for things like an errant link to what turns out to be an age-restricted site (again age restricted doesnt = porn!).  Your 12 and 15 year old, by now, SHOULD BE old enough to know what they can and can't visit, and they're probably smart enough to know how to get around safeguards if you have any.  But, just like in every aspect of life (which is sadly going down the toilet in our society sigh), it's up to them to make the right decision, and, no matter how much you teach your kids what the right thing is.  In today's (especially American) society, it's much easier to regulate what everyone else does in their own home than it is to regulate ones own home, apparently.  Otheriwise, common sense would be used, and not laws regulating what everyone does in their own home. 
So, while you're more than welcome to be offended at my post previously, it wasn't aimed at you.  I empathise with parents that don't have the time to spend with their kids that I have.  Sure, there are days that I'm jealous that the meat of my 'adult conversation' goes on at Renderosity and not face-to-face with anyone (gah, especially in the winter!), what I have is a luxury, and I do my best not to take what I have for granted.

*"Well some people must simply have more time than me" 

• Does this philosophy apply to children playing in the street? Or to what books you allow them to read?

Of course simply as a human being you have to prioritize any risk-benifit potential.
But this idea that OTHERS have to comply to any of  "your" ethical or moral or safety standards is both impractical and unethical. Time management is not anyone elses problem but yours!
YOU've made the decision that semi-unrestricted parential control is fine for your children. What you have then said is you want ALL OTHERS to comply with your household rules.

By your logic extended the entire internet should be restricted to ONLY educationally-religiously  approved content.

(now he sits back awaiting the flood why I'm wrong, evil and fat  :)

geogress, that's not what she said AT ALL.  Way to take one quote out of a larger paragraph and take it out of context.

I worry a little (very little) about the people who get their kicks from PoserPorn (tm)  considering how technically bad some of it is .

Here is an important LINK that will lead you to a great site :)  click it and see :scared:

I want to thank everyone who has used this thread. It's
one of the best I've read in a while.

Quote -*"Well some people must simply have more time than me" 

Does this philosophy apply to children playing in the street? Or to what books you allow them to read?

Of course simply as a human being you have to prioritize any risk-benifit potential.
But this idea that OTHERS have to comply to any of  "your" ethical or moral or safety standards is both impractical and unethical. Time management is not anyone elses problem but yours!
YOU've made the decision that semi-unrestricted parential control is fine for your children. What you have then said is you want ALL OTHERS to comply with your household rules.

By your logic extended the entire internet should be restricted to ONLY educationally-religiously  approved content.

(now he sits back awaiting the flood why I'm wrong, evil and fat  :)*

Wow......  I sure do hope you are still sitting there "awaiting"  so you can see how very wrong you were.
Do you know what happens when you "assume"?  Just curious.  I don't have any notion whatsoever that someone else has to comply to my moral or ethic standards.  My children are my responsibility and mine alone.  If they do happen upon a link during unsupervised time that is my own fault - NOBODY elses.

If you are correct and the entire internet should be restricted to ONLY educational-religiously approved content - than I sure do hope it's a Pagan type of religious education since that is the one I would affiliate with.

I was simply stating that not all parents can watch kids at all times.  I wasn't giving my opinion on whether the link was acceptable or not.  I could care less.  My fifteen year old is an art student and photographer - I bought her the Beatles Illustrated Lyrics for the holiday.  If she saw Posette in Porn should would laugh at it, not be shaped by it.   My kids read whatever books they want - hence their love for reading now - and no I don't allow playing in the street.... regardless I don't expect anyone to even give two craps about my household rules.

o.0

Whether or not you are evil and fat is another topic, but as far as wrong, you most certainly were
= D

""But, just like in every aspect of life (which is sadly going down the toilet in our society sigh), it's up to them to make the right decision, and, no matter how much you teach your kids what the right thing is.  In today's (especially American) society, it's much easier to regulate what everyone else does in their own home than it is to regulate ones own home, apparently.  Otheriwise, common sense would be used, and not laws regulating what everyone does in their own home. ""

Amen.  I see that alot where people put the blame for what their kids do on other people, movies, video games, what the kids see on the internet.   Not enough is put into actually implementing some character in these children to start with.  Or taking responsibility for the people they become based on how WE the parents raised them.  Whether or not the child could find a porn link by accident should come second in importance to whether or not they would peruse it if they did find it.  Too many people way too busy passing the buck.

Whatever monitoring system you're comfortable with for home computer use, don't forget that it doesn't cover what they're doing at Johnny's house where the rules may be less strict. Also, today you can access the internet from your XBox, cellphone, etc. And now we have "sexting"
abcnews.go.com/Technology/WorldNews/story
Short of extending the human gestation period to 18 years, there is no easy answer.

Markschum,
oddly, I'd disagree in that I've seen some amazing erotica done with Poser (but yeah fair bit seems silly :p).
I w as looking for drow (dark elf) art, and found...anyway, one artist's work was both superb and highly erotic. I was very impressed! :)

Quote - silverblade33

As for the "elitism" on CG TALK etc.
That stuff is pathetic. who cares what someone uses ot make art, in the end, it'sonly the quality and impact of of the art that counts, not WTH they used to make it!

Uneducated comments like this really aggravates 3D artist that makes there own original content.

"Yes,  but in the beginning, we started with such pretty water colors ... and then it rained.." ___:sad:

Quote - > Quote - silverblade33

As for the "elitism" on CG TALK etc.
That stuff is pathetic. who cares what someone uses ot make art, in the end, it'sonly the quality and impact of of the art that counts, not WTH they used to make it!

Uneducated comments like this really aggravates 3D artist that makes there own original content.

Really?  That's not really an uneducated comment.  If you look at the graphics business, 90% of it is compositing.  One guy didn't make Wall-E.  It took a HUGE freakin' team of people who specialize in one thing.  It's rare, in any sort of imaging business, where you find a person who does everything WELL.  Usually, if someone does everything, they're not all that awesome (Yeah, I know there are exceptions, that's why I used usually).  The folks at CG Talk aren't the norm, they're the exception.  While there are some of them who can really do awesome work, most of the rest of the folk (they're usually the elitists) could barely model and texture a basketball properly.   Some of the best artists I've seen in the Poser community are some of the best at CG Talk.  Stonemason.  Cris Palomino.  Kromekat.  And that's just a small bunch.  

Wall-E & D /S & Poser Renders took a lot of talented 3D Artist to make the original content for D/S, Poser Renders.

If it was not for these 3D Artist making original content we would all be rendering spheres and cubes in Poser, D/S.

Which would be rather boring and plain.

Takes a real dedication to just learn one aspect of 3D. " Modeling ,texturing ,Rigging.ect "

To just master one takes a monumental commitment.Is why only a few have mastered them all.

I just would not call them pathetic knowing what it took for them to get there.

Only some one that was uneducated in making 3D content would.

Just because one uses Poser does not make them uneducated in 3D content knowledge.  Some people model.  Some people create textures.  Some people create lighting.  Others environments.  Some composite.  Some are shader gurus.  All create something.

"...who cares what someone uses to make art..."

In this case, they do and it's their turf. While I wouldn't necessarily say that art is unimportant to the CGTalk folks, it's certainly only one consideration, along with the tools and techniques used in creating the final product. A group of chefs or chef wannabes might rave over your chicken soup. If they found out (to their embarassment) that you used Campbell's stock, frozen chicken and canned veggies, most would probably turn on you. The same things happens in programming - C++ vs. Visual Basic - and other areas as well. People who have invested a lot of time and effort in learning to produce something tend to dis those who use what they perceive as shortcuts, even if the end results are equally effective or pleasing. There are always a few people who can rise above this but they tend not to be in the most vocal majority. You have to know what each community's values are and expect them to behave accordingly.
 

Quote - "...who cares what someone uses to make art..."

In this case, they do and it's their turf. While I wouldn't necessarily say that art is unimportant to the CGTalk folks, it's certainly only one consideration, along with the tools and techniques used in creating the final product. A group of chefs or chef wannabes might rave over your chicken soup. If they found out (to their embarassment) that you used Campbell's stock, frozen chicken and canned veggies, most would probably turn on you. The same things happens in programming - C++ vs. Visual Basic - and other areas as well. People who have invested a lot of time and effort in learning to produce something tend to dis those who use what they perceive as shortcuts, even if the end results are equally effective or pleasing. There are always a few people who can rise above this but they tend not to be in the most vocal majority. You have to know what each community's values are and expect them to behave accordingly.

I think it has something to do with originality of effort ans content, as opposed to shopping lists.
DPH

Quote - Just because one uses Poser does not make them uneducated in 3D content knowledge.  Some people model.  Some people create textures.  Some people create lighting.  Others environments.  Some composite.  Some are shader gurus.  All create something.

I never said Poser users where uneducated in making 3D content.

Quote -  

I just would not call them pathetic knowing what it took for them to get there.

Only some one that was uneducated in making 3D content would.

This is your quote.  What were you inferring?

"Uneducated comments like this really aggravates 3D artist that makes there own original content."

And ungrammatical statements like this really aggravates the 3D artist who relishes the artfulness of the English language. We all have our priorities, I suppose. :)

@DP: Congrats on the use of your work, feels good that others find your work of value.

@the rest: A true story perhaps of relavence.  As a child I was raised in the most puritanical repressed environment you could imagine. Allowed only to have friends of the same religious and moral veiws subject to approval of my parents, which means none. For years I thought myself to be the devils own and possesed by demons because of my secret masturbation. Extra carricular school activities, forgett it "bad associations spoil usefull habits" Sex was a hidden subject and a dirty nasty thing only approved for procreation, not to be enjoyed. All this indeed kept me walking a very narrow and fine line, the perfect child, polite and well mannered, spoke only when spoken to. I learned almost nothing about the world around me, what was actually normal, or how to relate to it.

By the time I finally rebelled my graduating year, ( and beleive me all children will eventually find their own way) I was wound so tight all into this compressed little ball of nitro. I totally exploded, was into everything under the sun and had no concept of how to deal with it or how to relate to others around me. I became the most debauched, jaded, horror you might imagine. Sex, drugs all of it. Well this period of my life which lasted for some time, was painfull and harmfull. Now I am not blaming my parents, they were good people who only wanted the best for me and did what they knew themselves.

But my deepest regrett was not being prepared for the world, or having any balanced understanding of of whats out there, or how to deal with it. I have slowly over the years come to my own understanding, but I have to say ignorance of the world is never usefull.

Just my opinion of course. But I have since raised a child of my own and never hid anything from him, only discussed all the various aspects of life, logically and seriously. He has made his own life and his own dicisions (with some guidance when young), and has a realistic veiw of his world. He has turned out well adjusted and successfull.

@DP:

I have to agree with that one.  About originality of effort and content rather than shopping lists.  Some of the elitism is reasonable.  I don't think I've ever seen one single image made in poser and poser alone that made me go wow.  Those that include poser in their set of tools - ok...   But those that use it solely with content made by others are probably just playing babies and it seems it could be offensive to those with real skills if the Barbie players are considered on the same level.

@Phantom:

Your opinion on raising a child is mine too.  I'm probably elitist in that way LOL.  I believe it to be the very best approach to raising a child.  So far mine have been brought up that way - I guess I'll have to update in a few years but so far so good =D

dphoadley, I googled what you said, but did not find your linkee!
If it's not against the TOS, could you kindly PM with a little more direction about finding the images with your remapped Posette? I wanna see it! :P And congratulations, you!

Now, Adding my 1¢, and in a kind, helpful spirit. :)

Quote - As for the "elitism" on CG TALK etc. ...

Quote - I just would not call them pathetic knowing what it took for them to get there.

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding here. Just to say, it sounded to me that silverblade33 was calling the elitism itself pathetic; not the people. : )

Quote - I never said Poser users where uneducated in making 3D content.

No... I didn't think so either; you were clearly addressing something far more specific.
And I hope I don't sound preachy; but I think it may have been your phrasing that made your comment sound more harsh than you intended. : )

Methinks it will shed a little light on your overall perception if people look at a comment you wrote in response to some Poser-bashing (6 comments down on the page). I particularly appreciated what you said about Poser content, renders, and the merits thereof. ;)

Bravo dph, Bravo !!!

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Quote - > Quote -  

I just would not call them pathetic knowing what it took for them to get there.

Only some one that was uneducated in making 3D content would.

This is your quote.  What were you inferring?

I was responding to

*silverblade33 Quote - "
*As for the "elitism" on CG TALK etc.
That stuff is pathetic. who cares what someone uses ot make art, in the end, it'sonly the quality and impact of of the art that counts, not WTH they used to make it! "

Kool stuff dphoadley

One man's art is another man's waste.  Is the media the art, or is the art of a particular media? 

and right before dinner, too.
pooh! pretty artsy fartsy for sure

I probably agree if by "shopping lists" you mean a particular set of software, procedures or practices. My point is that people sometimes tend to develop a rather parochial view that their path is the right one and that therefore the product of any other method is somehow inferior. Throw in the fact that the value of the product itself is as subjective as art (not to mention the rather "sensitive" nature of some of the practitioners) and you get some really insane conflicts. IMO, you can take the stock Poser content and make art - certainly as much art as a crucifix immersed in urine. Admittedly, the artist did produce the urine himself so I suppose that may count as much as making your own mesh for those working in the bodily fluids genre :-) 

I probably agree if by "shopping lists" you mean a particular set of software, procedures or practices. My point is that people sometimes tend to develop a rather parochial view that their path is the right one and that therefore the product of any other method is somehow inferior. Throw in the fact that the value of the product itself is as subjective as art (not to mention the rather "sensitive" nature of some of the practitioners) and you get some really insane conflicts. IMO, you can take the stock Poser content and make art - certainly as much art as a crucifix immersed in urine. Admittedly, the artist did produce the urine himself so I suppose that may count as much as making your own mesh for those working in the bodily fluids genre :-) 

geep

If your going to paint in the rain,might be helpful to use water proof paint.

lmckenzie

Humans will always find a reason to war, won't they.

dphoadley
The one thing I would like to do is make 3D videos on a Micky D's budget, there not erotic.

But man it takes a lot to make 3D Video's.

I am still trying to work out a doable work flow.

I was thinking going Poser , Mimmic , Lightwave , sound software , editing software.

What is your work flow ?

SeanMartin

I type all my responses in email and spell check when I remember so all the words are spelled correctly.

Decade+ of being on 3D Forms at lest a 100+ comments about my English,if not a 1000.

Spell checker reads all words are spelled correctly

" Uneducated comments like this really aggravates 3D artist that makes there own original content "

So I do not get what your raging me about ?

jjroland

At CGTalk very few use Poser in there pipe line.

some of the reasons are.

1. when you send your demo to Pixar ,ILM etc they would recognize Poser right a way.

and they do not need you if there going to use Poser.they would just use Poser theme self's.

so we do not want them thinking Poser or we would be out of a job.

1. Poser meshes have a real high polycount 60,000

app's like C4D,Max etc characters have a polycount of 4000 give or take a 1000.

I could re model the meshes a little on are meshes not Posers.

I could morphs,map,texture,rig ect 10 of are meshes buy the time I could do one of Posers characters.

C4D & Poser & zBrush would all be called 3D App's

But they work nothing a like.

I can make characters for C4D all day long, easy.

Can not make one for Poser just don't have the patience.

JenX
really could care less about andy warhol or wim delvoye want to be.

I do not consider either of them Artist, much less 3D Artist.

I will give them credit for being monumentally pathetic a long with jerry springer, nothing more.

Angelsinger

Kool :)

My point was, RorrKonn, that the medium something was created in doesn't make it art.  Or, just because someone is doing something new and different doesn't mean it's art, either.  Art is subjective, and to say that because someone purchased a part of what's in their artwork it's not art is ridiculous.  Painters purchase both paint and canvas.  Photographers purchase their cameras, lenses, film, chemicals, and paper.  3D artists buy their applications, and some purchase content for said applications.  So there are people out there who do the point and click renders.  Big deal.  Look in the "high end" galleries and see how many of them are basically a reflective ball over a surface, especially the newbies with the program.  When you start out, it's the "oh, cool, I can do that!!" feeling.  Some people don't grow with that, but whatever, it's not up to us to judge them for it.  We don't have to like it, but, really, if you want to make art, make art.  If you're worried that other people using the same app as you aren't making art, well, really, there are people using every media known to man that aren't making "art" in my eyes, and getting acolades.  So, you can fret about it, even the tiniest bit, or you can just get over it and do what you do.  In the end, you can't change what other people do, only the way you look at it.

JenX

Apparently your under the impression that I would rag some one for using store got content, I would not.

Heck I even buy and sail 3D Content.

High end apps have Turbo Squid.

I would not rag some one for there point and click renders.heck I even have some of my own.there fun.

I like Poser and the people here.Even defend them.

I will defend Lightwaver's from Max'ers also.

I will defend Artist at CGTalk from Poser Artist that rags the Artist at CGTalk, feel free to rag CGTalk thou ;)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1743380

RorrKonn Quote

*Well since we want to get all serious about stuff.

The Venders that rule the market place,could not find better artist in Hollywood or any where.
You could hate Vicky all you wanted but she is the undisputed Queen of the 3D realms, all the 3D realms.
V3 was modeled in Lightwave.V4 Modo.
Always struck me as funny that LW,Modo are consider the smallest of the Fab 5 app's but they have the Queen.

Maybe you don't like Poser but they only use quality stuff in there renders.
No they did not spend 10 years to create every thing in there render.
But it is there production that they directed,lit & produced.
There's a lot of kool Poser renders.
Do you hate starwars,warcraft took a lot of artist working together to make them.
If all the movies, games where only made buy one person,how good would they be ?
Quit ya job and only depend on the market place for your sores of income.
There will not be a 3D Artist better then you.Quote*

love the cowboy dph

Finally got back to this as I couldn't be bothered with an arguement at the time and I was looking up "drow" today :p

RorrKonn,

Uneducated comments like this really aggravates 3D artist that makes there own original content.

It does not and ever does matter, in reality, what the heck someone uses to make art (short of theft of someone else's work).
I've seen wonderful work made with SAND, never mind house paint or a welding rod and bit of steel, or cheap gemstones, or..well, nearly anthying. That was my point, ok? :)
Am I picking you up wrongly perhaps?

The folk on CG talk are usually amazing, but anyone, anywhere who gets snobby because someone "dared" to use the "wrong thing", lol, they are the one with the problem.

nearly 10 years ago, Martin Murphy used Bryce and Painter to create amazing art which still stands out to this day as amazing work. Anyone who'd "dis" that for having been made with Bryce or a 486 PC  needs a kick up the backside! :D

I'm interested in making scenes to tell a story, and to learn new tips/tricks with each item I create, to help make the next better. I have no desire to spend 6 months building one scene. Life is too short.  Enjoy it, make and appreciate good art while ye can :)

Yes I can make models, but there's no need to when it's too much time  and effort lost when I can get content that lets me create what I wish to show.
Much respect to the folk who made the stuff I buy on DAZ etc, but hey, as folk above noted...the complexity is too much.

Model I made year or two ago, prior to UVmapping and texturing it:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/rhino/2008/hammership44.jpg
Render: note I go for a sort of "Non-realism" style of look by the way.
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/hammership/hammership.jpg
 

Quote - Model I made year or two ago, prior to UVmapping and texturing it:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/rhino/2008/hammership44.jpg
Render: note I go for a sort of "Non-realism" style of look by the way.
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/hammership/hammership.jpg
 

Very nice!

Acadia,
thank you! :)

I've been filleting everything nowadays, makes a huge improvement in realism.
But, poly counts suck, lol, especially as I work with Rhino. Hope they improve the meshing in Rhino v5!
That ship is 1,200,000 polys...eeek!
but I can do close ups of any part, near enough, and not get any unrealistc "impossibly sharp" edges.
I'd rather too many polys, because you cannot "add" more detail later, well, except by painting in Photoshop etc!
As I build my ships in parts, I can delete unecessary bits in a scene ;)

So for this pic, I deleted much of the ship as it's out of shot. And that scene, omg...very "heavy" hehe
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1755936