Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

Hmm I guess I would say it takes long for products I want to show up in the marketplace between releases. I hunt for certain kinds of items though.

On the contrary, whenever a new product is released, addons and textures are released almost instantly for that product by other vendors.

...and quality is best. Keep going at the pace you do to keep producing quality items.

There's really no such thing as too long, unless someone else gets
to market with the same thing first.... and there's no way to predict that. 

Only a few of the merchants make enough money to count it on the
basis of wages.   The rest of us are working mainly for the love of the craft,
with money as a nice little 'tip'.

Unless you're one of the few high-volume producers, you'll be happier
in the end when you satisfy your sense of artistic integrity.

And your customers will be happier with high quality.

I agree with ockham.  If you feel you make good quality work at the pace you're going, there's no sense in trying to work faster.  It will only make you sacrifice in other areas.

Anything quality takes time. Stonemason takes months to work on one of his releases, and he is considered one of the top vendors anywhere.

Faveral is the same way. He might work on something for 3 months before it's release.

The real question though, is are we underpaid for the amount of work involved, and the answer to that is YES.

Customers expect more features, better rigging, improved textureing, ect because of 3d advancements,  however prices on many things have gone down rather then up.

And as a customer I do expect to see new features and advancements in products I purchase.

If you want to be seen as a quality vendor, you need to invest the time and effort to create high quality content.

Crap vendors are a dimne a dozen, and few make any money at this at all.. the top vendors however do invest the time into thier craftsmanship, and they do make a living doing this, because they have made a name for themselves.

*I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products

• By all means please manufacture inferior  lousy crap I will be sure to buy plenty of it.
  Turn the 3D marketplace into Home Depot.
  Great idea.

Are you actually putting out feelers to see if you will be able to get stupid people to buy bad crap????????

Just have the balls to go ahead and do it.  See how well it sells.

that was...harsh...;)

A lot of the problem is that Poser's builtin tools are terrible.  Moving morphs into Poser for a rigged figure is immensely harder than it ought to be, for example.  There's other fun stuff like the amazing tumbling falloff zones bug in adjusting joint parameters.  Quality of the content takes time, but the quality of the internal tools is terrible and makes it much worse.

I think these types of questions would be much better suited to the Content Creator's forums located here:

http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net/ 

I am happier to buy quality over quantity any day.  There are a handful of vendors that I have no reserves about buying their products at all when I see something I like, because I KNOW without a doubt that they have taken their time and have produced a good product.  Likewise there is another handful of vendors that I have to REALLY think long and hard about whether or not I will buy something because I have been burned in the past with cheap products.

Quote - I am happier to buy quality over quantity any day.  There are a handful of vendors that I have no reserves about buying their products at all when I see something I like, because I KNOW without a doubt that they have taken their time and have produced a good product.  Likewise there is another handful of vendors that I have to REALLY think long and hard about whether or not I will buy something because I have been burned in the past with cheap products.

I agree 100 percent with what you have said, even to the point I have an excel spread sheet that I keep. It lists hair, hair textures, clothes, clothes textures, buildings and props and body poses. I rate vendors just like in the review system in the marketplace or 1 to 5. Plus I make notes off to the side about that vendor if I ask questions and or point out errors and they reply or not. That all said, if I see an item from a vendor I have rated low that is unique, I will wishlist it and then watch the forums and or galleries for comments or images. And yes a vendor who I have rated low to start with can and do improve their craft and I do re-rate. Likewise I have products from vendors whom I rated high who I feel have rushed a product to market with flaws and they can and do get rated lower over time.

Well, I don't get good sales so I may just be deluded into thinking I make good products. Or it could even be that I spend little time marketing my stuff. Things were selling better back when I was in a merchant partnership but only because my merchant partner was heavily into the Poser/Renderosity crowd. But after our partnership broke up and our joint products were removed (as per my request), things slowed down for me alot. My only real successful product was my Custom Staff morphing prop but even that was about a one month sales burst that faded away. 

Anyway, I think I'll have to be more strategic with my product development so that I can still make quality products but in less time.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Oh, does anyone know how to set the morph dials so they can only be set to 0% and 100%?

How about setting morph dials so if one dial goes up they other dials go down? That might sound like something that requires Python and a knowledge of programming.

It takes a long time to create good products IMO. I do mainly textures and character packs and I can tell you that takes time to do right. Sometimes I see two or three products in a week or two from one vendor but I'm sure they work on several at a time and so release them close together. These products look like good quality. I work on two or three things back and forth sometimes. Right now I am working on three. :) Just work at your own pace and don't worry how long it takes, as long as you're satisified with the outcome, that's what counts.

>> Well, I don't get good sales so I may just be deluded into thinking I make good products.

One reason, I suspect, is because you have a very specific style that's utilized within a very narrow range. I took a look at your store offerings: while they're very well designed, they're also extremely limited in their usage and not exactly the kind of thing that lends itself to impulse buy. Just speaking for myself, I might not consider them until I had a need for that precise look -- and then I'd jump all over them.

I'm sure this is a quandry that affects all merchants, both here and in the Real World. But my recommendation would be to build up a series of WIPs to showcase what you're doing, then start a few threads to see what the public response would be. The top merchants do that, so no reason why you cant as well: Stonemason, for example, is almost unforgiving in tantalizing us for months on end with images of his latest flight of fancy.

But you have to enter into it with a sense of where you want to go. Too many merchants see what they think is a bandwagon and jump on it, while the top ones look longer range. Look at Darie's work, for example: I could buy any of that on the spot at any time (and I have) and know that I have a great product that I can use it for years if I so need to. That, to me, is the hallmark of a merchant that will get my attention: someone whose stuff lasts more than a style cycle at the Gap.

Quote - Oh, does anyone know how to set the morph dials so they can only be set to 0% and 100%?

How about setting morph dials so if one dial goes up they other dials go down? That might sound like something that requires Python and a knowledge of programming.

What is it you're trying to do, exactly? If you want one morph out of a number to be on, and all the others off, that sounds like an application for geometry switching. Let us have more details, anyway, within the bounds of commercial confidentiality. ;)

Maybe I should answer your original question, too. :-)

I make freebies and don't sell stuff, but I believe the principle is the same. I take as long as I think is necessary to make the thing to the best of my abilities, because I get pleasure from the process itself. I'm sure I'd be the same if I was a merchant - I wouldn't expect to sell enough to make a living at it.

(Tongue in cheek) One advantage of making freebies is that if the thing just won't work out perfectly, you can release something with flaws in it as long as people can work around them somehow. Of course, it's in your interests to declare those flaws up front. Nobody will complain if you warn them in advance that post-work might be required, for example. (Well, some might, but you can safely ignore them.) :)

Long story short, if you are doing this to make money...don't (it will never be worth it).
You should be creating because that is what you enjoy...making creations.

Make skimpy outfits for V4, no limits to that genre....though it confounds me as to why?

My personal opinion is this, you have a product you make, take the time to do it right or don't do it at all. As a vendor at another store, I take the time and make sure it is of good quality and works as promised.  Right now one of the products I am working on is taking me longer than I thought it would because I want the details right.

yeah...we're not going to turn this thread into a sitewar. 

I yanked my comment.....
BTW  the same site war exists on another thread right now, J

OK, thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate the feedback and advice. In my products I always try to emphasise customisability mainly in the texture department. If anyone has actually bought any of my recent products they will know I include tutorials on how to customise the textures (or designs as per my 2d products). I think that the problem is that I'm not showing people that things can be customised in my promos. That might increase sales. Sadly, I am doing this for some sort of income so I might need to look for alternatives to my creative skills. Sigh....
I also split my time making some video tutorials and that's a bit tiring, too. You can check them out at http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMashCom if anyone is interested.

Although, I think maybe I'll give a few more products a try first. Skimpy outfits, huh? I think I might give that a go.

Don't worry about the morph question previously. I'll ask that in a new thread maybe. It's not really that important, though.

Thanks again to everyone for their feedback .

Cheers,
Paul

For what it's worth, since someone found my comment and link to be rude. It wasn't meant to be. I was merely pointing out that vendors at Content Creators would probably be more helpful to the original poster.

Yes, please move this thread if necessary but ONLY to the correct Renderosity related forum and not some forum on a different site.

dont know what you are referring to LostinSpaceman, but my comment that I yanked was bustin on CP. Hope you arent refering to me  ;-)

It's fine where it is, guys.  No worries.  Sheesh.

Quote - dont know what you are referring to LostinSpaceman, but my comment that I yanked was bustin on CP. Hope you arent refering to me  ;-)

It wasn't in reference to anything posted here. I got PM stating my orginal comment might be coming across as rude to some people so I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't meant to be rude.

I think the very first post that started this thread may have been misinterpreted. I don't think simpler and less expensive means crappy. I think if you focus on what you are good at and what you like to do you can make a simple but high quality and useful item.

about the crappy thing -  that is my reaction to somebody saying, basically : aw gee whiz  this Poser thing takes too long....maybe i should put less care and effort in, so I can $tart $elling more stuff, quicker.

where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

Luke do you want to wade through a bunch of garbage from people who didn't really want to spend a lot of time on thier work?

Quote - where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

The nuance is here, as I read it:

Quote - I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

(My emphasis.) A "simpler" product can be easy to make, but if it fills a previously unidentified need it can still be worth buying. Since it's simple, high quality is more readily achieved in a short timescale.

Maybe the word cheaper can be taken as a negative, but in the context of the whole post I think reflects on price only as the next words are "but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department"

Santicor, of course I don't want to wade through crap, that's why they have some degree of testing here. I was not addressing you rather the whole thread and really throwing my support behind the original poster. (And no worries, I often make posts like yours and need to edit and apologize for days on the forums :)

mix_mash I checked out your store and your stuff looks really nice.

What takes you so long to complete a product? This might be an interesting topic for a thread, but I fear it would turn into a trashing of Poser.

I am new to Poser, and I love so many aspects of it, but I am absolutely stunned at the difficulty in getting content sale ready. Maybe I am spoiled by refined development tools and in the Poserverse you are still hand editing text files and back tracking numerous times in the creation process. I can model, uv map, and texture in no time but the whole process of getting my work ready for sale is an absolute time sucker. 

Thanks Luke I appreciate your viewpoint on this.
Maybe the original post struck me the wrong way

that being said - I certainly would quit doing Poser if I thought it was a hardship that the work process sometimes  slow  and required a lot of effort.

this isn't like walking into a fast food joint and ordering fries, is it?

Are we truly an instant success and gratification society now? even as artitsts? at the cost of lowering the detail of the work?

I have posted too much here. Yes I was a little too harsh....It is my own fault for speaking my mind and I sorta wish I never said anything.

I am going to go back to work on learning how to do good renders now. I have nothing in the gallery yet because I am not happy that my renders still look amatueristic. The process of learning about the nodes in the material room is a slow process, but it does not bother me. I will post an image after I have worked hard and made something good.

Quote - mix_mash I checked out your store and your stuff looks really nice.

What takes you so long to complete a product? This might be an interesting topic for a thread, but I fear it would turn into a trashing of Poser.

It can vary from product to product but here's a small list of things that are regarded in the creation process:

Ideas and concepting
3d construction (also need to ensure that the polycount is fair and not too high)
Creating morphs
UV mapping
Importing and setting up in Poser
Creating textures
Setting up materials
Fixing errors in modelling, texturing and material creation
Rendering
Preparing custom tutorials
Promos
Setting up the zip (making sure the folders are all correct, doing the readme file, etc...)

Sometimes just coming up with ideas can take a while. Sometimes ideas can be too elaborate on paper so I need to compromise in the 3d design.

3d products take at least a minimum of 60 hours to make. 2d products usually take a minimum of 40 hours. But other things such as my personal life and the weather (I can't stand working in hot weather and neither can my computer!) keep me from working at a steady pace.
 
Right now I'm working on a simple Venetian mask with 50 custom designs. I'm also including all the basic alphas used to create the designs and a tutorial of sorts to help out with that so that people can create their own variations of my designs. All that for the minimum product price.

PS: Thanks for the compliment!

I hate working in hot weather too!

Saticor, I am glad you posted. Poser is particularly nasty to me because I am spoiled by game development tools where the time to create is maximized and the time to mess with tools and process is minimized. In that industry there are teams of programmers to make the content creation and integration as easy as possible for the artist, not so in this world :) Of course the investment seams more worthwhile on the surface, but I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser they would see huge growth in the sale of Poser as people can more easly create stuff for it.

*"......I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser...... "

The damn morphing tool crashes me CONSTANTLY- and I have to start over

I am going insane

Maybe that's why my posts are sometimes  a bit too nasty.

The morphing tool has me wound up like a spring.

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

It takes as long as it takes....

People work at different speeds and have different priorities.  As some have noted, very few people actually sell products for Poser as their primary source of income.  For the ones that do, they generally have built up a very good stable of products with decent residual sales and can afford the time it takes to create new and excellent products using their longtime experience as a Poser crafter.

I muck around with creating lots of things that work in Poser.  I can create a decent piece of clothing, mapped, grouped, rigged and tweaked a bit in fairly short order.  As a matter of fact, the quickest and least troublesome part of the entire process is creating the mesh and everything up until the point where it's time for fine tuning, morphs, testing and packaging (If I was going to distributed it.)  Those latter stages take many times longer than just getting the mesh into Poser, rigged and working, for me.  And texturing?  Meh.. I can dump a texture onto something like anyone but.. for it to be "good" takes a bit of work.  All in all, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the knowledge necessary to fine-tune .cr2s, pz files and materials/nodes after having started mucking around with creating things for Poser.  There's much more than meets the eye, that's for sure.  To do it "right" takes a great deal of experience and intimate knowledge of Poser.

IMO, and I hope everyone understands where I'm coming from, I wouldn't be upset if some producers took a bit more time on their products.  I do understand the need for cold, hard, cash.. everyone needs it.  So, desperate times call for desperate measures and sometimes, it just has to go out the door to the marketplace.  But, if any producer can spend that extra few hours or days tweaking their product, they should.  There is a cornucopia of mediocre items out there in Poserland and they far outnumber the ones of higher quality.  If there was less of a desparity of quality between the two, customers would be a lot more comfortable with making impulse purchases and trying new producer's wares.

Quote - *"......I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser...... "

The damn morphing tool crashes me CONSTANTLY- and I have to start over

I am going insane

Maybe that's why my posts are sometimes  a bit too nasty.

The morphing tool has me wound up like a spring.

The Morphing Tool is evil...  Really.  It is.  It say's so in the manual in the Addendum under  "Evil Things We Thought It'd Be A Good Idea Not To Avoid Including In Poser"  It definitely has its uses but, IMO, they should be limited to very, very minor pose adjustments and quick fixes for poke-through issues.

Use a free 3D package like Blender, Wings3D or Anim8tor.  You can learn enough in any of these in a short amount of time to be able to produce your own morphs.  Hexagon, my favorite atm, costs money but, it's very, very easy to use.  With Hex, you could produce morphs "on the fly" in a matter of minutes with far more accuracy and control than the Morphing Tool and with a lot less headaches.  There's even a bridge for D/S if you use that package.

Morkonan  is there a problem transitioning Poser files to the free modeling programs like Blender -   and likewise, Blender files to Poser.....
I heard it was tricky  including the fact that Poser is scaled smaller  and this down the road causes problems. 
In other words,  would I need to worry   if my goal is  to  bring Poser or Daz figures into , particularly, Blender- do some major morphing, and then  bring these morphed figues  back to Poser7  to pose and render.

Blender is fine for creating morphs. Here is a quick run-through of my workflow.

1.       Load figure .obj from the geometries folder into Compose.

2.       Create  then save a joined and vertex mapped copy of the parts involved in the morph.

3.       Import that obj into Blender.

4.       Press the NumPad 1 key with the cursor in the 3d window.

5.       Press the s key and enter 4 or 5 as your scaling value.

6.       RMB click the figure to select it then press the NumPad . to frame the selection in the viewport.

7.       Enter sculpt mode and begin sculpting the morph or use proportional editing to move vertices into rough proximity for large changes then sculpt detail.

8.       When finished press the s key again and enter .25 if you scaled by 4 or .2 if you scaled by 5.

9.       Export the .obj.

10.   Open Compose and morph the parent figure.

11.   Use Poser’s Little Helper, Morph Loader in DAZ Studio, or the native Poser morph loading to add the morphs as included or INJ/REM files.

I use Compose in the workflow because it solves the nasty issues of exploding vertices of the imported morph data and separation at the edges between groups when using the smooth brush in sculpt mode.  Also you can save your joined and mapped meshes in a work folder and re-use them to make later morphs without having to repeat the entire setup process.

The downsides to Compose are that it only works properly under Java 1.1, 1.2 or the current 1.6 version and that it can’t handle the vertex count of a full G2 or Mill3/4 figure so you have to create separate groups for the body and head if you are making FBMs. (It was written in 1999 when meshes were a bit less poly heavy.)

If you want to use INJ/REM to load your morphs Poser’s Little Helper is easy to use and it’s free.

I have a tutorial available for download that more fully describes the process.

great tip lisa, I will look for your tut thanks

Attached Link: http://home.tir.com/~johnwind/Compose11.zip

You can get it from the link...

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

I most definately feel like that!!!

Quote - about the crappy thing -  that is my reaction to somebody saying, basically : aw gee whiz  this Poser thing takes too long....maybe i should put less care and effort in, so I can $tart $elling more stuff, quicker.

where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

Prehaps when you crate your own content, and experience the pains of making it, the nuance becomes more visible. Much more visible.  When you make stuff, there's a constant consideration about ... am I providing quality, or getting into little bitty details that noone will care about (an overkill).  At least that's how the initial post comes across to me.

Quote -
I hate working in hot weather too!

Saticor, I am glad you posted. Poser is particularly nasty to me because I am spoiled by game development tools where the time to create is maximized and the time to mess with tools and process is minimized. In that industry there are teams of programmers to make the content creation and integration as easy as possible for the artist, not so in this world :) Of course the investment seams more worthwhile on the surface, but I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser they would see huge growth in the sale of Poser as people can more easly create stuff for it.

Better tools would be huge help!
While it's they're not perfect, I've been very impressed with DAZ's recently released Content creation tool add-on for D|S

Quote - Morkonan  is there a problem transitioning Poser files to the free modeling programs like Blender -   and likewise, Blender files to Poser.....
I heard it was tricky  including the fact that Poser is scaled smaller  and this down the road causes problems. 
In other words,  would I need to worry   if my goal is  to  bring Poser or Daz figures into , particularly, Blender- do some major morphing, and then  bring these morphed figues  back to Poser7  to pose and render.

No, there is nothing terribly tricky about doing that.

They're based on wavefront .obj files.  If you can import those, you can import Poser meshes.  Scaling is not an issue if you have a program that can scale import/export.  Even then, using something like "Objaction Scaler" ( a third-party, free application, just do a google on it, I think it's at Morphography) you won't even need to worry about that.

The only "tricky" part is that "Grouping" breaks wavefront.obj meshes into separate, independent bunches of mesh within the same object.  So, for instance:

Let's say you want to turn V4 into an Ogre.  That can be done!  In fact, you can grab her mesh and import it into a 3D app using any number of tutorials.  It's easy.  The tricky part comes when you end up not having one contiguous object to deal with but a number of smaller, independent meshes called "head", "neck", "chest", "hip" etc...  They are all "V4" but they are no longer contiguous - Grouping has split the mesh.

There are ways to get around some of the problems that causes.  Saving the original UV coordinates from V4 then assigning everything to the same group, exporting a new model, working on it in the application and then reassigning the old UVs to it will allow you to use tools like "soft selection" across groups and you'll easily be able to get vertices to align with each other using specific tools.  You can use UVMapper Classic (it's free) to accomplish that.  BUT, that method won't give you one, contiguous mesh like some applications can - ZBrush, Mudbox ( I think) etc..   Those are "expensive" bits of software.

Can you import, work with and export useable morphs fairly easily?  Sure you can!  It's very, very easy to do.  However, it DOES take practice to get really, really good results.  But, anyone dedicated enough to start trying to do that can easily get "good" results in their first session with a 3D application and an imported Poser figure mesh.  No foolin'.. .it's easy.  Doing it "well" is what is difficult. :)

Quote - ...I have a tutorial available for download that more fully describes the process.

Blender can soft-select and sculpt across mesh groups in an obj without edge distortion where groups meet? ie: One contiguous mesh?  Or, do you still have to pay attention to mesh edges when sculpting/moving vertices?  (V4, not Milfigures)

I'd like to see your tutorial, if you would be so kind!

Quote - Since we're way off topic anyhow... :-) Compose works fine for me under Java 1.5.0_07, and opens V4 without complaint. So I guess your mileage may vary, as always.

You can get it from the link...

Same here.  I haven't had it give me any problems with meshes (V4) due to polycount that I can recall.  But, I have not used it in many months so, I could have forgotten something.

GAAH! Did I have the only version of Java 1.5 that Compose wouldn't play well with?!?:laugh:

No problems with group edges distorting if Compose is used  to create the vertex mapped contiguous mesh, regardless of modeling app.

Blender sculpt brushes - adjustable fall-off and limited use of textures as brushes. (Don't forget proportional editing is another option in Blender)

Turning back onto the thread topic now after the detour.

IMO....don't worry so much about the time to output ratio, if you're not generating a significant amount of your revenue from your efforts then concentrate on the quality/detail, relax and enjoy your hobby.

Simplification is fine so long as you maintain your quality standards considering the different requirements for stills vs. animations. Good quality simple meshes definitely have a place and use alongside the more complex detailed meshes.

just to say, there's a big difference between quality and complexity.  just as a for instance, that 50 texture thing would actually turn me off. why do you need to bloat my runtime?  is you model so complex to texture, 10 designs wouldn't do?  and 50 designs communicates mediocre to low quality compared to just 10.   personally, i consider simplicity a sign of good quality.  tired of products stuffed with lots of things i'd never use. 

so if you're asking whether you need to make your products total swiss army knives that do everything while not going below that level of quality, i personally feel and have observed that it's not tons of options that mark popularity or people's perception of quality.  it's how good your stuff looks and does it work easily.  just as an example, the Glamorous Collection was hugely popular when it first came out.  from everything i've heard, it works very, very well as dynamic cloth.  thing is, the dresses aren't UV mapped, don't have an edge, and the 30 different materials are five different types of material in 6 different colors.  it didn't, for instance, come with tons of different props, have UV maps and lots of different complex textures, there's no mention of morphs for fitting (larger sims well, but smaller really needs fitting just like real clothes) or versatile usage (it really matters how you start when you run a  cloth sim).  certainly no mention of different cloth room settings to go with each material type.

his newer products are more complex.  but the Glamorous Collection is the only one i remember seeing in multiple newsletters and stuff.

Quote - just to say, there's a big difference between quality and complexity.  just as a for instance, that 50 texture thing would actually turn me off. why do you need to bloat my runtime?  is you model so complex to texture, 10 designs wouldn't do?  and 50 designs communicates mediocre to low quality compared to just 10.   personally, i consider simplicity a sign of good quality.  tired of products stuffed with lots of things i'd never use. 

Absolutely true!  There is a Law of Diminishing Returns concerning included texture sets with products.  Why include 20 different texture sets in a product when the user will, most likely, stick with two or three for their entire experience of use with the product?  Give 'em the best three you can make instead.