That IS what "Scale Head" morphs are for! :laugh:

I have been frustrated with scale morphs with Mil2 figures. Especially the hands. Still using mike2 I hate his tiny little hands and comparatively bigger feets!

Enlarging the size of the hands and fingers doesn't work...to much distortion to the parts of the hand. So I went about it a bit different. I enlarged the overall figure by a certain percentage then reduce the individual body parts except the hands and fingers to the size the figure was originally. I have not tried dressing him after this is done so not sure how this affects the conform functions of clothes but it does give him nicer bigger hands. I do the same thing with the feet!

Likewise I feel the heads of the Mil Figures are smaller than what for some reason I think I see in real life. I notice it when viewing mikki2 for instance which seems shorter and a bit stockier. Her head seems bigger in proportion to her body and her legs and torso also seem shorter and that gives me the illusion of being more "Realistic". So lately I have been changing the proportions of my Mil2 figures to give me the same look and they do seem a bit more realistic. Of course Ethnicity modes here play an important in that perception so I guess it could be relative to that too.

This figure we are discussing in this thread has the same feel to it at first glance as say Miki 2 (shorter and a bit stockier) and that I guess is why she seems so much more desirably realistic...not super model or even model status but your everyday 'Neighbor's Wife"!

got to agree about the bent arms.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2387050&ebot_calc_page#message_2387050

EnglishBob's Morphography Utilities page

edited to add: oh, and always work with a copy of the original.  i'm not suggesting you edit your original file.

Attached Link: Poser Editor 3

Quote - can someone recommend a good hierarchical editor for Poser files? I've been using a normal text editor, but it's always hard to tell where I am. Free or cheap would be good. Something that works with wine or natively on Linux even better.

it might be, but when money's tight....  i didn't have a problem using it at all.  at this point, i can't really imagine a much easier task/workflow than what i did to use it, so i couldn't see paying any money for that, myself.    perhaps if i needed to do more complex work, it would be worth it, but i don't and one doesn't for this one task. 

Quote - In the above example, her arms are not straight out but bent a bit and that makes a wee difference.
If she were posed arms straight her height/wingspan would seem more equal.

That is quite true. Maybe I'll repeat the experiment with her arms and legs stretched straight out and see how that looks.

Quote -
shante - the way you fix  it is actually a cr2 hack.  you change the scale scale in the hands and feet to scale propagatingScale.  don't take my word for the precise change in code, though, search for it in the forums.

That's a good point. Mike (phantom3D) already mentioned the propagatingScale option to me, which I didn't know about. I'll definitely try to make Antonia's parts scale well. It's not too hard, and it can be very useful, so there's really no excuse besides laziness for not setting up the scaling zones properly.

Also thanks for both the editor links. I'll try cr2editor first, and if I end up thinking I need something more sophisticated, I'll buy the other one.

Attached Link: Cr2Builder

Quote -
Also thanks for both the editor links. I'll try cr2editor first, and if I end up thinking I need something more sophisticated, I'll buy the other one.

Thanks, but I don't really read Japanese. How do I get to the download link?

Attached Link: Cr2Builder

Quote - Thanks, but I don't really read Japanese. How do I get to the download link?

Ok, got it now. The problem wasn't the Japanese. It was that the links for the apparently newest version didn't work.

Okay, I had a quick look. Cr2Editor seems solid, but Cr2Builder looks much more powerful, produces smaller files and is a bit faster when saving. So I'll go with that unless I come across any really bad quirks. They both work significantly better on a Windows system running on VirtualBox than under wine, which I can live with. Many thanks again for the links!

So, this is supposed to be a free program, right? I didn't see a license or anything, but the readme is in Japanese, too, so I'm kind of helpless there.

Edit: Hmm, I have to say, though... Poser File Editor 3 looks pretty tempting, too, and it's not that expensive. I might give it a go. I'm sure there'll be much need for down and dirty file editing - if not for the base .cr2, then later for pose files, morphs and whatnot. People tend to rave about the quality of Dimension3D's tools, so I can't imagine I could go wrong with this one.

Looking good! I think this is a good half-way between 'ideal' and 'realistic'. I like that she doesn't have a wasp-waist. That isn't idealized, but more realistic. It gives her an earthiness and sensuality that many figures lack. That is a good thing, in my book.

Looking at the figure in relation to the grid she looks proportionate. But looking at just the figure to me she looks like her left arm is actually shorter than her right. I know it isn't but goes to show how our eyes don't always relate the "Truth"of what they see.
Yes maybe the legs are a tad too long compared to the rest. She is sort of the proportions I would morph V2 down to bu the legs would be a bit shorter in my V2 morph to comply with that "stocky" look. But it isn't objectionable in any way. If you are going to set it up so she can be proportioned w/o adversely affecting the figure GREAT. No matter what she looks like coming out of the box we can make her what we each feel she should be. The problem is ALWAYs the darn clothes.

So, after my P6 re-parented the feet to the body for no apparent reason, I decided to go with Poser File Editor for all the renaming, repairing and reorganizing things. I bought it today and am really happy with it so far.

Got to minimize Poser's opportunities for messing things up. I might even go as far as exporting my future joint zone edits as pose files and merging them into the main cr2 externally.

Yeppers! Poser has some twitchy crap, alright. It come partly from the microscopic scale poser figures are at for one thing.  I still have trouble waiting for her release.  LOLOLOLOL SOunds like waiting for  an old girl-friend in prison to get out! :laugh:

She's certainly looking very nice.

It look like the outer extremities will require some additional JCMs to scale smoothly. So I will probably do the smooth scale setup for all the easy parts and then upload the first fully rigged preview.

ODF– Just wondering, why didn't you build the geometry/pose her so her ankles were together in the default mode? It is a more standard human pose…

She's Looking Great,Excellent Work

That would make it very difficult to model pants.

No, you just hide one leg…

I meant a more natural stance without the heels actually touching. As in, "Who stands like that (legs spread shoulder width apart or heels together), anyway?!"

Who stands like this?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man

I'm sure both odf and Leonardo have their reasons...

 Ya, but the Vitruvian man has two legs closer together, too. Da Vinci was showing at least partially that the length of one's legs don't change as you rotate them outwards. Notice also that the wide stance is standing on the bottom of a circle. (Should we do people with two left and right arms and legs too? :rolleyes:)

I'm guessing odf did his wide so it would be easier to make clothes for… but it is a pretty wide stance for that even.

Actually, I think he tipped his hand when he created the pear shape at long last... turns out Antonia is a left tackle. :)

A Valkyrie!        *   *

First of all, my apologies for posting so many renders in the default pose. There's no real excuse since phantom3d made such a great rig. It's just that I haven't saved any nice poses yet, and I usually post these progress renders late at night when I'm kind of exhausted and can't be bothered to make one.

As for the stance: yes, I modeled her that way. I used to have the legs closer together, but that made it really hard to work on the crotch area. She needs quite a bit of geometry there so that the mesh doesn't break when she does splits, and the closer the legs are together, the harder it is to fit all those polygons in.

I'm actually a bit surprised I'm not hearing more complaints about the arm pose.

Quote - A Valkyrie!        *   *

Quick! Someone make her pale, freckled skin and a set of thick, blond braids.

It's also horendously difficult to get any decent rigging at all for the legs when they are close together, unless of course if you don't mind pulling the crotch up into the belly button. The extra room is needed for accurate settings for the falloff zones. Also there is no reason you cannot apply any type of default pose to the model you wish, if you want the standing default pose with the feet closer together just move them to where you want them and save it out that way.  You will find that all models are done this way just take M4 and turn off the IK and zero the model with the joint editor and you'll see what I mean, his zero pose have the feet farther apart.  For rigging it's a must, and there is no changing that, it's physics. If you want a decent rigg you need some room to work.

Phantom3D,
What program did you make the rig in?

I've seen how complex it is making a rig in Maya, so I just wondered.

Actually I was wondering if there's a simpler program to make rigs in?

Love the idea you are making her look more "Realistic" by way of normalized body shapers. But, of course don't forget young and beautiful and perhaps a child or teen. If that is done with the mesh the way you are making it, will clothes made for one body type also work with the other body type?

**FranOnTheEdge:

Since the figure is for Poser and D/S I made the rig in Poser and D/S. There is a way to make the rig in 3dsMax and then translate it to poser, but it never translates accurately. So you're better off just rigging the model in Poser or D/S. I really like the new Daz rigging tools and they make much of the work easier.  3dsMax has better rigging options but they cannot be used in Poser or D/S. For instance weight mapping, i sure hope Poser will get some proper weight mapping someday soon. :)**

Oh, can it be done all in DazStudio?  Or do you need to buy a Plug-In for it?

I only have Poser5 you see, and I hope to one day get the creature I'm modeling rigged, but I can't afford to buy any new programs.

shante: I 'd expect clothes that inherit her rig and joint setups to just follow the scaling without problems. But I have no experience in making clothes, and, knowing Poser, I imagine there'll be some extra difficulties I'm not aware of.

Also, I don't think we can achieve every body shape we might be interested in by just scaling parts. So clothes makers will still have to duplicate and fine-tune a bunch of morphs if they want to support them.

For D/S you need to buy the rigging tools.  I dont have Poser 5 but I'm quite sure you can do all the rigging in Poser 5 in the setup room. A very good book to learn rigging and all other aspects of figure creation is "Secrets of Figure Creation with Poser 5" It's an older book but very comprehensive and well written. You may even find some good deals on it at Amazon or Ebay. I got my copy at Amazon at a reduced price.

 Well it's not like every person fits into Leonardo's square anyway. Some have longer legs, some have longer torsoes. Mostly, taller people have longer femurs from what I can tell. Then again, I'm short myself but actually my arms are "too long" (by some 6 cm) compared to my height - my "wingspan" is roughtly 166 cm whereas I'm 160 cm tall (I had to slightly guesstimate the "wingspan" since my measuring tape was only 150 cm...)

So in short, I wouldn't worry that her height/width doens't match up. That's one of the things that makes her realistic!

 Ok, odf. I understand the reasons. Just don't pass her out with that goofy pose! Arms, too. 

Valkyrie idea. Hmmm. The Valkyries were the Norse goddesses of war… I don't know that Antonia looks particularly Norse or warlike. Latin is more like it. But hey— if you think she would be a good Valkyrie, go ahead.

I'll download Antonia ASAP when she's done, although she would find limited use unless there were clothes (pronounce the "e") as well… 

Ideal was Da Vinci's goal. In his case, it was really "good enough"— he didn't want to measure every single model to make sure he drew them exactly perfect! :laugh: Was he lazy? lol.

I think I'd probably describe her as middle-of-the-road Caucasian. Anyway, I'm hoping one day I can make some morphs based on real people. Who would you cast as a Valkyrie? :biggrin:

I just think she looks so much nicer than the Daz females.

Quote - I just think she looks so much nicer than the Daz females.

At least with V4 they finally managed to give her a decent mesh. V4 could be very pretty if someone spent some effort on making her human-shaped.

I don't mind V4's prettiness. It's the fact that most people make her look to be the same woman over and over that gets a little old.

But I like to sculpt rather than playing with distributed morphs, especially when it comes to the head. I'm looking forward to seeing how Antonia functions as clay. :)

 odf— Like the default pose very much.

On Valkyries. Not all Caucasians are Nordic, ya know.

"Who would you cast as a Valkyrie?" Don't know of anyone in particular, but they (plural) would be tall, blond, and fierce, at least for the production. After all, the job of the Valkyries was to swoop down on Viking battlefields and snatch up the dying heroes before their last breath and then fly with all their might with them in their arms to Valhalla. And the Vikings weren't too keen on anyone snatching anything from them, especially if it was their foe whom they were just to deal a brain-splitting blow! Something like the Greek's Amazons in a few ways.

So. Not to be rude or anything, and it's not like I'm impatient, but when are you going to get her ready to go? (Ok, so the part about not being impatient isn't quite like it. Take out the "not.")

Good work. Hope she gets chosen as a figure for Poser 8. :thumbupboth:

And as soon as she's ready, we all need to swoop down on this link:

www.textureconvertor.com/PluginRank.asp

... and ask for an Antonia plugin.

More importantly: license keys for X-Dresser etc.

(Yeah, I know, we're going to have five hundred original textures and two thousand original clothing items for Antonia in the first month, so there's no need to worry about stuff like this....:)  :D

Quote - On Valkyries. Not all Caucasians are Nordic, ya know.

Yep, being a rather un-Nordic Caucasion myself, I realize that. :tongue1:

 Good I-D-a Believable3D! And no, we probably won't have 500 original textures etc……… we could wish, though.

odf— I have a little reason to say that. I am 1/8th Norwegian after all…

jumps up and down is she done yet? is she done yet?

Nope! She's not ready yet.

I'm currently trying to figure out why the "repair joint names" function of Poser File Editor breaks the rig.

Quote - Nope! She's not ready yet.

I'm currently trying to figure out why the "repair joint names" function of Poser File Editor breaks the rig.

Oh-kay! So apparently the joint channels that link an actor to its parent must have fixed names - in my P6, anyway.

I found another little glitch in the rig tonight, but haven't made more progress with the scaling stuff. Well, the night is young, and I've only edited half a million channel names by hand so far. :biggrin: