the problem i have is shooting at night .. wow when you tone map it sure adds tones of noise lol
as you can see with the image of the punk kid thinking hes tough lol

but this is about lighting in the correct way so feed back would be great..

and I get less noise if i shoot in more of a day light or white back drops

all these are just test shots.. cant even think to be creative with it yet. because the lights i think are still kicking my butt lol

I took the liberty to make some adjustments in Photoshop. The thing is, I belive, is to use a warm filter on the lens to dampen the harsh white flash light. Then if necessary, make some color balance adjustment in Photoshop. :) Strata

Except for polarizing and special effect filters (such as star filters), Photoshop can simulate any filter you might place on the lens.

Therefore, you should be able to try that effect in the post processing. 

--Martin

how do you simulate a filter in photoshop? and im not sure im seeing where the filter should be used lol

Miranda,

From what I see here, the 1st shot  of the (punk kid)  there is a yellowish (tungsten?) light on the left  competing with your main (white) light. Its rather harsh on the models head in my opinion.

I  think it would help to show the image BEFORE you tone mapped it.  Also sharing the EXIF data (camera settings) used would give us some additional information to reference and help with feedback. You can view Exif date within Photoshop using the FILE menu then selecting FILE INFO.

Joe

Just look under adjustments- Photofilter. Read the help section about it, most useful reading. :) Strata

About filters in photoshop ...

I asked my Good Buddy Google and got 1,650,000 page hits for photoshop filters. 

Here are the first few ...

Photoshop Filters (freeware);

720 Free Photoshop Plugins And Filters;

Free Photoshop Plugins | Tutorial;

... even some from the source: Adobe Photoshop CS4: Plug-ins. 

That should get you started and/or tie you up this Saturday morning. 

--Martin

lol Thanks MGD for your effort on these :-)

im a little loss on it at the same time lol

ok I looked at the filters and from what I see photoshop will do all that stuff already..
is it like a one click kind of thing? where photoshop I might have to go through 10 steps to get the same look?

also my biggest goal is to get it right in the camera first .. with lights even to the point im using color lights to get the look im after..

my goal is to use as little photoshop as possible.. I want to be able to just tone map the image once I have it..

now what im learning from tone mapping is .. if the image is not correct first from lights to exposure and all that good stuff.. tone mapping just makes it worse tones of noise and hot spots so my goal is to get a great image in the camera

i went through a faze taking any kind of image I shot and doctor it up in photoshop
and the results I have come up with by doing that.. is im trying to add stuff that isnt there already
that could have been if i got a firm understanding of lights first.. and also when i find myself doing heavy edit in photoshop.. it tends to get over processed and no longer feels or looks like a photo...

if you look in my gallery at my older stuff and then compair it to my newer stuff
you will see what i mean.. my older stuff im getting ready to delete because now after seeing that what goes in the camera is more important then all the photoshop tricks in the world.
im finding im getting better results less damage to the image and more depth in doing a simple tone map...

before I would spend 4 hours in photoshop on one image and then ending results is always over processed. for me anyway.. but now that im learning lighting.. im spending 3 hours playing with lights (only because im new at it lol ) and i shoot 50 photos and move the lights 50 times lol to get one good shot ... but each good shot I take I then messure where all the lights are and right it down so next time it wont be 3 hours lol

and due to that i spend max 5 minutes in tone mapping and 15 minutes in photoshop lol

so  thats kind of my goal and im hoping im not on the worng path lol
grabbing all those filters are tempting to me you have no idea lol
but im really trying to do what the film masters had to do.. and that was get it right in the camera first.. at least thats what i think lol because they didint have the luxury of of photoshop and digital. film guys are true masters of a camera.. and that kind of what im chasing

hope your not offended :-)

Quote - I took the liberty to make some adjustments in Photoshop. The thing is, I belive, is to use a warm filter on the lens to dampen the harsh white flash light. Then if necessary, make some color balance adjustment in Photoshop. :) Strata

awesome I like it ;-)

is it possible to correct this in lighting and they way im setting up?

i love how the orange yellow on the side of his face did calm down thst so much better..

but how would i catch this in lighting and make it work ?

Not offended at all. 

You're right about getting the best possible image in the camera. 

OTOH, sometimes it's about knowing the rules ... so that you can break them well -- that is, in the right way.  BTW, that idea of " ... follow the rules ... [but] know when to break them ... " is shown quite well in The Golden Child. 

As to photoshop and filters, and ... my copy of Photoshop is 7.0 not CS 4 (or even CS 3) ... none of the new tools could work for me. 

As to your comment,

grabbing all those filters are tempting to me you have no idea lol 

So?  What's stopping you?  ... Try ... Experiment ... After all, no cost but time. 

--Martin

Oh im so glad your not offended :-)
I did bookmark all the links you sent me
but i know if i go down load them today I will get side tracked on them
and its so tempting you have no idea.. but while I have my sons home today im going to try and duck tape them to a chair so i can try lights today.. and I have a new female model coming over at 1pm and im a bit scared because my light knowledge stinks right now lol

but i will go back to those links and see what i can find :)
thank you so much :-)
Miranda

Hmmmmmmmmmm ...

I have my sons home today im going to try and duck tape them to a chair 

Will you be using Duct Tape or Duck Tape?  [grin]

--Martin

hahahahaha im not a creative writer but i sure am a creative speller lol

and the duck tape is a figure of speech lol they tend to run from me now when they see me touch a camera lol

duck tape is a figure of speech lol they tend to run from me

Up to now, I thought there were only 2 kinds of duct tape. 

So what you mean is the third kind of duct tape -- the duck and run kind. 

... or maybe the Grin, Duck and Run kind ... often seen on the internet while punning.

--Martin

p.s. It's a good thing this place doesn't assess a Pun Tax on some of what I write. 

lol good thing they dont charge me for every miss spell word and bad grammar lol

this is why i say never date your english teacher lol

this is why i say never date your english teacher

Why not?  It might be the best revenge.  LOL

--Martin

Personally I would turn the strobe light power right down and move it to the front a bit.  This would make the yellow light your main light source and the strobe light the fill. 
Try turning down the iso on your camera to get rid of some of the noise 400 iso is unnecessary as is a shutter speed over 1/250.

hth

Thank you i like your tip on the strobe
and I just put the camera back at 100 iso.. i was told at night use 400 iso so that is what I did

so your saying I shouldnt shoot past 1/250?

and another fast question :-)

I love the results of my camera when I shoot in A-dep mode better then manual.. because with A-dep seems if someones hand is pointing at me.. seem its in focus and the face is is focus as well.. but in manual mode.. the hand would be in focus and the face is blured..

I even tried shooting in a-dep mode with my flash.. and they dont work with the flash unit.. the shutter stays open long after the flash went off.. its like the camera dont know there is a flash hooked up when I shoot in a-dep

so how do I get the same detail as a-dep gives me but in manual mode :-)

I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot at higher speeds than 1/250 - but that is the speed your camera syncs at I believe.  

There is no reason to change the iso unless you do not have enough light to get the shot with iso 100.  

Not sure what a-dep is but I think it is some kind of auto focussing thing ? 

yeah A-DEP is on the canon Rebel XT
it dont let me change the shutter speed at all when i use it but lets me change the other one

like if the camera is at 250 and the other thing is at 5.6 it will only let me change the 5.6 one

Its the Automatic Depth of Field  which may explain the Nature of your problem

250 is the shutter and 5.6 is called aperture. Try to set it on manual, and you can change either of them. :) Strata 

well i use it on manual all the time.. just lately I been trying A-Dep and I like the results better on the depth of field.. so how do i get just as good of depth of field as i do in A-Dep but in manual :-)
knowing that will fix my problem im sure lol

my understanding of this is that A-Dep will essentially do a calculation of the hyperfocal distance and select an aperture accordingly so that as much from front to back is in focus as possible provided everything falls under the camera's autofocus points (f/22 or whatever the lens' smallest aperture is might not be necessary)... as you're shooting in manual anyway, seems to me the logical thing to do would be to compose your scene, set everything up, flick it into A-Dep, take a note of the aperture it gives out, then recompose the scene in Manual mode using that aperture.... you should then have the same depth of field as in the other mode, with the bonus of being able to use the flash....
I wasn't quite sure what you meant by 'good' depth of field, could you maybe be a little more specific?

Adam

Take a serie of pictures with 60/5.6, then vary the aperture-shutter up resp. down and see what DOF you get. (125/4.5 250/2.8 500/1.8) :) Strata 

Sure :)
ok for example if I shoot someone setting in front of a door or 3 to 4 feet away from the door
the person will be in focus but the door will be blur like the depth of field is waaaayyy to short..
because I want the doors detail as well... in A-DEP mode it always gets the person and the door and anything around it in focus as well as the person im shooting.. and I would shoot like that.. but A-Dep does not allow me to use flash for some reason :-)

i just want as much detail as possible of the person and the persons surounding as well :-)

if I use A-Dep to choose the depth of field and then jump over to manual and put it in that way.
it dont work to well in low light.. because it tells me shutter speed is like 2'' and apature is like 4.3
because A-Dep has no idea I have a flash hooked up

so when I jump to manual the shutter is set to 250 and the apature will only let me go as low as 5.6

I would say turn off the automatic depth of field; set the focus to a half-way point in the subject -- midpoint (front to back) of the subject.  The smaller the f/ stop, the more the background will be out of focus. 

You'll get more control of DoF by manually choosing the f/stop and letting the camera choose the shutter speed.  

--Martin

What camera model do you have? :) Strata

I have a canon rebel xt :-)

depending on your distance from the subject I'd say f/11 would be a pretty good base point for portraits which include a bit of the surroundings.... I understand what you're saying about manual setting the shutter/aperture - could it maybe be that you've set one of the custom functions or menu settings such that the flash sync speed is at 1/250 sec? ... I use a 40d so I imagine many of the menus would be similar... there's an option to set flash sync speed in Av (maybe spills over into M?) mode at 1/250 sec, perhaps this is why it won't let you change the settings? that's my best guess as at 1/250 it would limit the amount the aperture could close down while still maintaining a correct exposure.

the alternative I would say, would be to set manual settings as you wish, force the flash up, and just play about with the flash exposure compensation, until it gives out strong enough light to compensate for underexposure created by shooting at, say, f/11, iso 100 and 1/250 sec... you should be able to push it up a bit but it may run the risk of the 'deer in headlights' look...

are you using the onboard flash? if so I'm in the same boat and trying to make the most of it until I can afford an off-board one..... so sometimes you might catch me playing about with coloured cards and old CDs poking out of blobs of blutac near the flash mount =D

hope it all goes well for you!
Adam

ummm I never use the onboard flash lol
only because the first time I tried it wow it made everyones face glow lol
I have a canon speedlight now and 4 stobe flash with soft boxes and umbrellas .. and then i have 4 lights that all have soft boxes and they dont flash they stay on all the time.. not nuts about them they turn all my images yellow lol

hehe cool ok the pics did indeed look as if the lighting was a bit more sophisticated than an onboard flash... so that should give you a good bit more play.. I've no experience using strobes hands-on but have a pretty solid grasp of the theory.. I'd say this might just be a good old fashioned case of trial and error playing between shutter/ aperture/ flash strength, as it seems A-dep and M are kicking out different numbers from the metering..

I agree onboard flash kinda sucks, always diffuse/bounce it if I can, or just bumb the iso up and screw the flash. I'm confident you'll find a way to get the results you're after, you have a real good style with your postwork, and a good eye for portraits.. can't see a little thing like lighting flummoxing (that must be the first time I've ever typed that word!) you..

all the best
Adam

4 lights that all have soft boxes and they dont flash they stay on
 all the time.. not nuts about them they turn all my images yellow lol

What kind of bulbs are installed? 

You need to consider Color Temperature.  Check this Color Temperature Chart
and this page on Correlated Color Temperature (CCT). 

Your bulbs might be Tungsten at 3400 Kelvin
... but you might want Daylight or Flash at 5500 to 5600 Kelvin. 

BTW, Tungsten at 3400 Kelvin isn't necessarily wrong ... in fact, it would
be the best lighting for film that is balanced for that kind of light source. 

Aaaaaahhhhhh ... but then again, you aren't shooting film. 

--Martin

very nice work on that one, the lighting and process are great.

I'm curious, is it because you intend to tonemap you would like a sharp scene from front to back? I ask because on this one, I personally would have used a larger aperture and blurred a bit of the background fence, as the patterns catch the eye and lead it away from the subject a little... I've had bad experiences trying to tonemap images with short depth of field, was wondering if you'd had the same and this why you're drawn to a-dep?

by the way I forgot to mention earlier I think you're dead on about film photographers being the true masters.. the advances in digital have made creating a 'correct' exposure pretty much automatic, but to shoot with everything in manual obviously gives much greater creative control/freedom... these days I too find myself metering then shooting in manual most of the time... I do have it in my mind to check the exposure on the screen, one of the true gifts of digital, as I also know what I will be capable of doing with the image in post.... but instead of just thinking "that'll do, I'll correct it later" I'm consciously trying to get the exposures right in the camera first time, perhaps for the same reason - wanna spend less time postworking! .. but prolly the best thing I can do to help that is to change to a computer which doesn't crash when it senses it might be an inopportune moment! =D

Adam

Here is something to read, in fact, what everyone should have read: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/zone_system.shtml  :) Strata 

Yes the reason I need depth of field and need to shoot with great lights is... in depth of field tone map will do noting but add a tone of noise in blured areas.. and also shooting stuff with tons of black in it turns into tons of noise as well...'

so the light and depth of field really needs to be perfect to get a good strong image out of it.
trust me I have spent hours trying all kind of images and writing down the problem areas in a photo.. and they all boil down to depth of field and bad lighting...

im almost at the point i dont even have to mess with photo shop much at all if the tone mapping comes out right...

I can show some examples of what i mean if you like :)

I have another question I have to do a shoot in a salon this week and there is zero room to bring strobe lights and all... is there a way to use my speedlight. without it acting like an on board flash..
i dont want to fire direct on the people with a flash right at them . I only want to use it to where it gives enough light in a room to get the shots :-)

Does the flash head on the speedlight tilt/pivot? 

Sometimes you can bounce the flash off the ceiling or a wall ... disadvantages are reduced light intensity due to longer distance from flash to subject; some ceilings (light fixtures, etc.) might cause uneven lighting. 

You could use a flash umbrella to bounce the light. 

--Martin

Thank you Martin :-)
yes it does tilt and pivot :)
I ran around doing some test shots and doing the bounce the light.. seems to work very well that way.. thank you very much :-)

That's good. 

Earlier you mentioned that your non-flash light source was too yellow. 

I asked what kind of bulbs you were using, but you haven't responded yet. 

Today, I went on to the Adorama site and found this seties of links ... 
Adorama -> Photo Essentials -> Lamps ... which lists 190 lamps ... most show the color temperature as a Kelvin number. 

You might also want to check  Adorama -> Flash/Lighting ... there you will see 11 categories of lighting equipment ... and you might find something ... aaaaahhhhhh ... interesting. 

--Martin

I was afraid to answer because i have no idea about the bulbs or the kind of watt they are..
the thing I hate about the lights is ..one you already know they turn everything yellow and 2 if i have on all 4 of the lights I have to move them so close to the subject that im for sure to end up with part of the soft box in the shot from at least one of them lol

and even with them that close I have to change the camera to ISO 200 to get a halfway decent exposure.. so i feel kind of ripped off on the lights after buying them... they sure look impressive with the giant soft boxes and stands but are worthless lol

the back of the light says they are Britek halo flood 1000
max 1000w code #H8047

anything I can do to make them worth anything?

also this is the flash I have and I have 3 of these. and one back light that sucks lol
but the problem is I blew a bulb in one of the flash. and i cant figure out where to buy bulbs
i cant even find the compnay online anymore that I bought the set from

http://www.amazon.com/Delicacy-Flash-Strobe-Light-Head/dp/B000EB5P50

and this is the stay on lights I bought 4 of these and 1 of them is on a big boom stand

http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/the-495/BRITEK-1000-WATT-D-fdsh-V/Detail

also im getting ready to buy these because im not happy with the stay on lights and i cant find a bulb for my other flash

can you tell me if this is a good kit or not? and if i will be able to buy bulbs for them later.. because I dont want to keep buying kits everytime a bulb burns out lol

http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/the-731/900-W-fdsh-S-FN-dsh-300-LIGHTING/Detail

i was going to order this kit today.. but i will wait and see what you say first :-)

I followed the skaeser link and read, "Color Temperature 3200K"

That's your problem with those softboxes.  WOW!

Earlier in the thread, I wrote,

Your bulbs might be Tungsten at 3400 Kelvin
... but you might want Daylight or Flash at 5500 to 5600 Kelvin. 

You should contact them and have them GIVE you bulbs that are balanced for DAYLIGHT. ...

At the very least, they should explain why they are selling those softboxes with those bulbs ... what application do they expect you to be using? 

BTW, you would almost be better off with a Northern Industrial 500 Watt Portable Halogen Worklight or 2 for only $6.29 each plus shipping.  Please be aware that I have no idea what color temperature you would get with those $6.29 units.  OTOH, you might be able to get replacement bulbs with a known Color Temperature. 

Actually, I 'cheated' and searched Adorama for 'halogen 500 watt' ... the ones they sell are 3200K.  Therefore, all halogen bulbs will probably be 3200K. 

Since 5500K to 5600k is the color temperature for flash, I searched Adorama for '5600K' and found this nice toy fo under $40 ...
Bescor LED-14, Sub-Miniature 14 watt 5600k Light, Runs 40-45 Minutes with 2 NiMH "AAA" Rechargeable Batteries, with 4-Hour Charger.

You see, you don't have to settle for yellow lights when you want to match the color of your flash. 

--Martin

Martin
I am so confused on all this im sorry lol

I know you are trying to help but i wouldnt know the difference in one bulb from another if i tripped over it lol

let me ask you this can i replace the bulbs in the lights i have and if so what one would you buy and replace them with.. and i will buy them today lol