Aw, and I thought we were starting to agree on more topics?  ;)

Girl 4 is a stylized character, and making her not "look ugly" in your opinion would be like trying to make Emotiguy not look like a smiley or the DAZ Troll have a cute round face - she wouldn't look like Girl 4 anymore if we tried it.

I said before that setting the Girl 4 face morph to 30-60% can give nice results if you don't like the full 100% face, and she mixes well with other V4 face morphs. Can someone do that and still win your contest?   >:)

SnowS

Sean, this rant from a guy who used only Ichiro for soooo long??? C'mon. I loved your Ichiro images and thought they were well done, but how can you have a hissy fit over the Girl 4 when you used only Ichiro for most all of your images??? Lots of people thought he was silly and not "real art". (not me by the way) :-)  And what does the Girl 4 and Ichiro for that matter have to do with improving the Poser program's capabilities? One really doesn't have any bearing on the other at this point, I don't believe. You don't like Girl 4? Don't buy her...pretty simple. Many love her look and ability to be combined with the other morphs for totally different looks. It's the old product and demand thing. If you build it they will come. :-)

But Girl 4 is something special and i dont want to miss her anymore in my Runtime . Have a look at what you miss out on ;-) .

Yeah, yeah, yeah... c'mon, this the best you guys got?

You want SilverElf to win by default because the rest of you are too busy bitching and moaning? Sorry, that's MY job around here, not yours. Yours is to prove me wrong, buckos.

And the lady above agrees: Maybe ya just dont have it in ya, huh... :)

I really like the face morph of SilverElf's ginger-nut (no offence meant - my girl is a natural ginger-nut) and Shal's Girl is lovely, I think.

But it's not open for voting. There is nothing objective or democratic about this challenge. You might stand a chance with a paper bag. I don't have one myself, but perhaps a box will do....

Now, is anyone going to help these Moaning Minnies climb out of this here bear trap (wolf trap?) they jumped into?
::

SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

*Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?

Coldrake

              **
**

Each to their own. Me, I think she's great.

Add in the versatility of morph mix'n'matching and being able to use V4 textures out of the box (not to mention magnet-fitting V4's vast wardrobe) and she's a terrific addition to my runtime. And I suggest you check your facts before mouthing off too - Girl4 clothes such as the Casual Outfit, Adventure Girl, Kickin', Pampoen and DreamWeaver are FAR from 'slutwear'.

As I said though. Each to their own.

Want pretty? Here's a straight Girl4 render with no additional morphs (don't want to be accused of cheating!), DAZ Studio render using UberEnvironment, Depth of Field enabled and focused in the eye. The texture is the free Colleen V4 texture by Moonfire from sharecg.com. No INJections were used, just the built-in Laugh expression set to 20%. Total setup time < 3 minutes, render time about 15 mins. She's both fun and simple to work with.

Not that I think I'd convince you for a second.

the OP started the same type of thread over at Daz forums , it was pulled reasonably swiftly.

You know, guys, maybe you could spend more time showing what this mesh can do instead of all the posts of what an awful guy I am? Frankly, that's not news, so it's already old.

Or shall we just forget it?

Truly, your call. I dont care either way. I've already said I can be swayed, but you folks seem rather fixated that I cant be. Pity that you think so little of me, but not surprising either.

So tell me: you want this thing to end right here, right now? I'm happy to do it.

You guys just let me know. After all, your show now. Not mine.*

Oh lookie another pissing contest  my, my...LOL! You folks KILL me!

Anyway, as in other posts I like G4, I like the fact I can use all of the V4 morphs on her, I like that she can take V4 skins, I like that some of the V4 clothing (Please don't get me started on content I am already buying nothing as it is now I have to have some fun) can be worked with to work on G4 even everyday style clothing yeaahhhhh! Ehem I digress pardon but I really like the Mil 4 series of folks.  Boy I can hardly wait until the Freak 4 comes out just to see what the hub bub will be about that.

I have to agree with SM on one point, HOW MANY FREAKING COPY CAT PRODUCTS CAN BE shoved into a store???  Oh well the corporate mantra says "Who cares about creativity this stuff sells!"  Sure worked for Detroit them cookie cutter cars are great!

Damn this is such a senseless thread ain't it? I mean with all the problems in the world, people going homeless, losing jobs, yada, yada, yada it's hard to believe that G4 is such a crisis. But carry on the entertainment value alone makes one forget all about that other real crisis stupid stuff.

man!  I was all set to do a render of "miss thing" for $20, but I see ravyn has already posted the prize-winning entry!

*>>Yeah, yeah, yeah... c'mon, this the best you guys got?

You want SilverElf to win by default because the rest of you are too busy bitching and moaning? >>Sorry, that's MY job around here, not yours. Yours is to prove me wrong, buckos.

And the lady above agrees: Maybe ya just dont have it in ya, huh... :)

I want SilverElf to win because I like her renders. If you actually read my previous post you'd see that I don't use Human-like models and haven't even installed G4 (even though I did get the free PC base model). 

Bonk Bonk - HELLO??? Anybody home??

Having already remapped V4.1, I wouldn't touch any of her mesh clones with a ten foot pole!
DPH

 LOL Sean.. you sure know how to make yourself popular ;)

For what it's worth, I agree some with some 95% of your initial post. I was actually whooping when I read it (quite literally.. scared the sh** out of my cat!)

But I must say that I found something in this thread even uglier than The Girl - namely that so-called "Guy". Sorry, PDXJims.. I usually love your creations, but this Guy is an abomination.

And no, nobody is forcing me to buy him. 

I downloaded Girl4 the first day she was available for the PC members. Not because I plan to ever use her, but simple collectormania. 

I made this pic when GIRL first came out:

I guess I agree with Sean that the only thing either of them are missing is the air vent.

For what it's worth, I think RavynGyrl's second image is a winner! It's very VERY nice!

Quote - man!  I was all set to do a render of "miss thing" for $20, but I see ravyn has already posted the prize-winning entry!

Quote - For what it's worth, I think RavynGyrl's second image is a winner! It's very VERY nice!

Awww, thank you both! :D But don't let my meager offerings stop you from posting a render. :)

Convince you? That's a pissing in the wind assignment I'll pass on. As I said before, this is just another variant on the 'Vicky's boobs are destroying Poser as a serious whatever' - now convince me it isn't :-) Seriously, if you think you are the source of true knowledge on what is ugly or not for anyone besides you own self then you welcome to said opinion. I'd say whatever her looks, she's doing pretty good for a virtual female. Even real women usually elicit such kvetching when they've broken a man's heart or his balls.

You must have missed my post, so here it is again.

**SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?*

Hmmm, maybe you're not up to the challenge. Because if you can't point out  what makes Girl 4 an insult to Gossen's original that would mean your original post was nothing but you trying to blowing smoke up everybody's rear end.

Or maybe it's just another one of your inane posts trying to bash anything and everything "DAZ".

Coldrake

SilverElf, your images rock! And you still create some of the most wonderful outfits ever.

Hey, I will try anything for a chance at more Poser spending money!

Girl4 morph set at 1.000 with a few V4 morphs thrown in.

Quote - You must have missed my post, so here it is again.

**SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?*

Hmmm, maybe you're not up to the challenge. Because if you can't point out  what makes Girl 4 an insult to Gossen's original that would mean your original post was nothing but you trying to blowing smoke up everybody's rear end.

Or maybe it's just another one of your inane posts trying to bash anything and everything "DAZ".

Coldrake

Oh my, so very, very sorry I didnt respond IMMEDIATELY to your post, PLEASE KIND SIR DO NOT BEAT ME TOOOO BADLY.

Let's start with the eyes, shall we? The original Girl's eyes are much smaller, better shaped, better defined. The new Girl's eyes in default? A vague resemblance to a frog's. Certainly too big for the shape of the face. Definitely poorly modeled.

Moving on...

The original proportions of the Girl have a nice sense of style. When I pulled the model out for my own image, I was struck by how few morphs were included, because really none were necessary. Gossens did an excellent job of a figure that, in default, looks good enough to stand on its own. The new one? Sheer height alone makes it difficult to put into a scene with any other characters without serious adjustment somewhere. And the body proportions are way, way off from the originals. The "new and improved" one has about as much structural informance to the original as a Hummer does to a 57 T-bird convertible.

Shall I continue? Look at the hands. In the original, yes, they're large, but in the new one, theyre positively grotesque. Move on to the feet and you'll find the same thing: the scale is completely out of whack for the concept of the overall figure. The original's might have been large as well, but -- again -- you can see a sense of real design at work there. The new one is just V4 put through the mill to make it look sorta/kinda like the original: a third-generation photocopy.

So, there you have it. Feel free to dispute the points all you wish, bubba. But Mariner's image says more than I think you'll be able to tackle. Still, you're welcome to try.

And Vicky's boobs? Another discussion for another time. Please try to stay focused, huh?

For everyone else, on with the renders.

"But carry on the entertainment value alone makes one forget all about that other real crisis stupid stuff."

Exactly. Thank you. LOL

Just a note, I quickly scaled up the V4 hands, feet to get them closer to the original, It was a rush job since I just wanted to have a better comparison than the original pic that was shown. Eyes, feet, hands can all be scaled easily on the new Girl. Just so you know. Later.

I guess I just don't understand the point of the thread at all, since it opens this way:

"I noted the thread on what we all want for Poser 8, and some of the suggestions were pretty good.

But frankly I dont hold a lot of hope when a company like DAZ continually calls the shot on what characters are supported and what are dropped. Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4...."

I fail to see what Poser 8 has to do with Girl 4. Girl 4 is a (one) add-on figure/character/morph by a company that doesn't make Poser. Moreover, DAZ talking about "most-anticipated" figure of the year - that's just hype, and anyway, it's no news. It IS their most-anticipated figure of the year, since they already came out with M4 in 2008, and nobody expects a V5 this year.

Personally, I downloaded G4 because she was free. I doubt I'll use her in an actual render - maybe some expression morphs or something, I dunno. I really only try for realistic characters, to which G4 doesn't pretend.

But let's set all that aside. Let's specifically apply your comments to a situation where those people who are using G4 are also making requests for Poser 8 that would aid realism (I don't even know if that's true, but let's assume). Any animator worth his salt will tell you that even with the most outlandish of characters, you need a certain believability from lighting and shadows etc for the whole thing to work, or it will look ridiculously amateur. Ergo, I don't see any sort of incompatibility if someone who loves G4 also wants global illumination etc etc.

To sum up: Girl 4 is not DAZ, and DAZ by no means is Poser. But even if none of that were true, it wouldn't mean the improvements sought for Poser 8 would be beside the point.

So who cares if DAZ is hyping G4? Who cares if a bunch of other people like a product you don't? It doesn't affect you in any way, and even less does it affect how Poser 8 gets developed.

My .02.

Hey Sean, I think  I see what you're getting at...or maybe not, you know me ~lol~

I agree that there are too few companies dictating what is cool or not cool but also...I've produced shed loads of free stuff.  Some people have downloaded it, some (most) people haven't.  If it floats your boat then by all means use it, if it don't then don't.

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven...blah...blah...blah,

I wouldn't buy The (new) Girl but if there is one worthwhile render produced using "her" then I suppose "her" existence is justified.

N.B. - Neither of us is qualified to judge what is "worthwhile" mate...or we'd be rich. :¬)

As for a "GUY" to go with "The GIRL" pdxjims just created one like he did Vittorio for Vicky 4 so that also is another option as well.

In the end, she is very stylistic but I really like her. I have been working on a pack for her for some time now and combining her with V4 gives some really nice results I think. Attached is something I have been working on that is a character that is a V4/GIRL hybrid. Not sure she's to your taste but figured I would share a render anyway :)

PS This isn't actually for the contest..just for the discussion on her look LOL Heavens knows this isn't a real render...just a test render I had for thumbnails :)

Oh, let's do!

SeanMartin wrote;
*The original Girl's eyes are much smaller, better shaped, better defined. The new Girl's eyes in default? A vague resemblance to a frog's. Certainly too big for the shape of the face. Definitely poorly modeled.

*Did you just make that up off the top of your head? Lol!

As you can obviously see in the attached image, Girl 4's eyes are the same size in proportion to her head as the Girl's. In the small side by side images you can see the top of the eyelid is a little flatter and the lacrimal is larger on the original Girl, but the size, shape and angle of the eyes are almost exactly the same. In the overlay at the bottom, you can see how little difference there is. They are extremely close. Your assertion that the eyes on Girl 4 are too big for the face compared to the original Girl is dead wrong.

Now that I've proven you wrong on the eyes, let's move on.

SeanMartin wrote;
"The new one? Sheer height alone makes it difficult to put into a scene with any other characters without serious adjustment somewhere."

You do know how to turn a scale dial don't you? You just click on the dial and....... turn.

SeanMartin wrote;
*"Look at the hands. In the original, yes, they're large, but in the new one, theyre positively grotesque. Move on to the feet and you'll find the same thing: the scale is completely out of whack for the concept of the overall figure."

Completely out of whack? Only to you. See above.

SeanMartin wrote;
*"The "new and improved" one has about as much structural informance to the original as a Hummer does to a 57 T-bird convertible."

*I can't answer that one for you, since there is no such word as "informance". You seem to be making up a lot of things lately, lol!

Shall I continue? I'll leave it up to you.

By the way, I never mentioned Vicky's boobs, you did, that's your obsession. Sean, try to stay focused here.

Since you can't find the Official Girl 4 Product Preview thread and the The Girl 4 Render Thread here are the links. If you can't find anything you like in the dozens of images in those threads, you're not going to find anything here. Your little "contest" is redundant.

Coldrake

Geez, coldrake, you really think anyone cares about all that "I'm right you're wrong" stuff? This seems to have become your obsession now. I suppose you never got a word wrong... you didn't even use your intelligence to think what SM might have meant by that wrong word!

And who the hell are you to say that a discussion that other people are following with some interest is "redundant". I think you should just move on if you have nothing useful to say here.

Which is what I''m doing now. Checking out. So I won't see your devastating riposte.

Well that was fun! Do I have to pay SeanMartin for the entertainment? Ok, as long it is not abundant just tell me where I shall send the money.

"I fail to see what Poser 8 has to do with Girl 4"

We're talking about the destination, not the voyage. What's the point of having this nifty software if we're all reduced to... well, this?

Let's put it another way, okay? And this is for the benefit of folks like Coldrake, who, yes, is getting obsessive about "proving Sean wrong" -- as if Sean really cares what Coldrake thinks just as he in turrn probably doesnt give much of a gosh darn what Sean thinks. But anyway...

You got people out there who think GM is the cat's PJs. These are the folks who buy into that whole marketing nonsense about how great those vehicles are when really all they are is a bunch of chrome and fibreglas slathered over a pretty lousy product. One of the best cars I ever owned was a 1971 VW. I bought it used. In the fifteen years I owned it, I could do all my own maintenance. I could customize the motor to my heart's content. Heck, as far as that's concerned, I could take the motor apart and rebuild it in a single afternoon. And it got 34 mpg. In 1976. I added a working heater -- all by myself -- and increased the mileage to 36 by doing some custom work on the pistons. Had it not gotten totalled by a semi that decided it needed my lane more than I did, I'd probably still have it.

Now? We have machines that no one dares touch unless it's a professional mechanic with a degree in computer science. If anything breaks down or needs to be repaired, it costs a small fortune. And the cars are no safer and the engines no more efficient than that car I owned now almost thirty years ago. And God knows, they're a lot blander -- if not flat out uglier -- in design.

Tell me, you seeing the parallels yet?

Well, y'know, in a funny way, that's what's happened to our little program, whether we want to accept it or not. The figures from even five years ago were simpler to use and didnt require a whole package of add-ons to work. I mean, it's pretty sad when you have to spend some pretty serious bucks to get all of M4, isnt it? I"m sure there's a really good reason for that little piece of absurdity, and I'm sure it has everything to do with Draper making money off something they give you for "free". But that's another discussion for another time. Let's go back to the issue of design.

Yeah, you can mix-n-match to your heart's content with the Gen4 girls, but to what end, guys? We're still looking at something that's essentially bland and boring. It's all V4, with hardly any variation save in a direction that just seems to emphasize everything wrong with the mesh. People have said for years that V2 and V3 were ugly as sin, but it generally took another generation for them to actually see it. And I'm sure that when the Gen5 figures are released (n about four separate packages, requiring eight texture plates and even more confusing installation processed, we'll say the same thing about V4 and A4 and maybe you'll even say I'm right about G4 (although you wont say it directly -- you'll simply say at some point, "God G4 was ugly!" in the same way you talk now about V2 and V3). The Gen4 figures have distilled the formula down even more -- to something that's so unappealing and unversatile because the original mesh is so specific in design.

And for this, we want all these great advantages in Poser 8? Seems a little silly to even try if this is what we have to work with once it's released, because you know that no matter how great the figures are that come with the package, no one will support them. We're all too locked into the whole DAZ-does-no-wrong mentalitty. Criticize one of their creations? God forbid! You take your virtual life in your hands when you do so, because the DAZ fanboys will not let anyone besmirch the honour of their fair lady.

So that's it, bud. Hope that answers the question, because it's a trend I've watched for years now, and it shows no sign of changing. As someone told me in an IM about this thread, we have a monopolist with a chokehold on this program, and no one seems to care. Well, there you are.

As for me, I'm asking Jen to lock this thread. I've chosen a winner, and she (I'm assuming it's a she) did a bang-up job. To the winner: you'll find a gift certificate in your account once Rosity has processed it, which may be immediately, for all I know. I hope you enjoy it.

Who is it, you guys ask? If she chooses to share her good fortune with you, that's her business.

Closing off the bots,

Sheesh. You ask people to prove you wrong, then when they try you accuse them of being obsessive and that you don't care what they think anyway.

This is a polite forum so words fail me.

Locked by request.