I started off using Bryce 5 for about 5 years and migrated over to VUE about 3 years ago.  Since then I have been busy in the gallery and forum for VUE and have been able to know many of the artists in that time.  I have noticed that in the past year new comers to VUE or at least people that are new to me, have been producing extremely great work and I have never heard of them.  Their first works are just incredible and I am curious is it that VUE is just such a wonderful program to use and makes it easy to create great images or are there just a great number of online resources available that aid in using VUE or other programs.  Or are these seasoned artists coming over to VUE from other programs.

I am asking because it took me about six years before things began clicking and I could begin making images that are well composed, have good lighting etc.

So if you have a minute or so, reply to this and let us know how you came to use VUE and maybe your experience with the other programs in your work.

Like you, I started in Bryce (ver. 3) and eventually migrated to Vue.  I haven't done much lately, been having some heating problems with my computer but that will end tomorrow when I install the new heatsink and fan.

I moved from Bryce to Vue because, as my skill progressed, I found out that Bryce, while a good program, was limited in what it could do and couldn't produce what I wanted to produce in the way of images.  I intend to start working in Vue again and will upgrade from Vue 6 Pro Studio to Vue 7 when I get a job and can afford the upgrade.  Until then, my Vue 6 will work just fine because I have all the modules.

I'm guessing if people are putting more money towards buying a quality 3D app, they are more likely to put more quality time into making good use of it.

Me I started off using just Poser, wasn't happy with what it could do for outdoor scenes, discovered Vue 5 Esprit, tried it and hated it because it kept crashing, right bag of spanners!
Made a deal with e-on to get Vue 5 Infinite, that was better, not as crash prone. Then moved to Vue 6 Infinite which is when I really started using it properly, eventually moving over completely to it from Poser for rendering.
I have Vue 7 Infinite now, not that happy with it although in general it's a step up from six.
My art still sucks though so I guess I'm not learning much, but then it's not about that for me, I'm not interested in being top of the tree, I just want to get my ideas and thoughts onto a picture.

I started with Bryce 2 back in 1996 and used it until V6.1.
I spent several years not working on 3d between 2001 and 2006 as I was more interested in photography.
I switched after trying a demo and figuring out my tries to make ground vegetation in Bryce were totally irrelevant, given the fact that it was far easier to make with Vue Ecosystems.

I use Vue as I use Bryce: to design landscape and as a renderer. As many users, I use pre-made assets or make them myself when I cannot find them. I tend to make more large scale scenes as Vue leans towards it.

After all these years, I have found that there were some keys to making successful images, and that many of them are not linked to the program you use:

• Idea: the quality of the original idea is critical. When I have an idea, I do not start straight away. I wait a bit and if I keep thinking of it again, then it is probably good enough to make an image of it.
• Artistic guidance:  I have started to purchase books about fantasy illustrations and look forward to get art books about landscape paintings. I am still light years from my inspiration sources.
• Workflow: starting from a sketch and patiently working towards the final image generally gives better end results than just playing around in the program waiting for something to happen (at least for me). Howto books about illustration can help in that respect. (eg: John Howe Fantasy Art Workshop, but there are many others)
• Composition: I have learned the basics from photography and tend to think of it a lot more than I did before. This is critical in making a good image as in 3D you can theorically make the best composition possible as opposite to photography where you try to give your vision of an existing scene.

I think someone having an artistic background, a good eye and no problems with learning can make wonders with any program accessible enough. Years ago Bryce users like me were in awe before the works of Martin Murphy who started to produce images we would have judged impossible using several different programs with equal ease. I think he is a good example of what you mean.

Started with Bryce 4 back around 2000?
But as bryce got screwed more and more, and got left to rot, I reluctantly turned to Vue...

Being Scots, I'm very passionate about anything I care for, and thus, saw Vue as a *"dirty stinkn' rival to Bryce, die die heathen app!" * :tt2:

Then I tried the demo for Vue5 studio, OMG!! Wow!!  Blew Bryce's arse off, lol.
Stuck with Vue ever since :)

I first tired digital art a LONG time aog, hm 1991 or so, on the Amiga, first computer i bought (to play "Eye of the Beholder")
It had Deluxe Paint, which was awesome, but primitive by today's standards, made a fun little animation with it like The Predator's heat vision ;)

Being a huge D&D fan, I'd long wanted to make the "Spelljammer" fantasy space setting come alive with art, and also"Dark Sun", so I learned how ot model to make the ships, and other things to.

Artists who made scifi and fantasy novel covers in 60s to 80s I adore, and try to get a touch of in my work. Finally got it on this pic http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1741715
Guys like Clyde Caldwell, Larry Elmore and Vallejo just blow my socks off! :)

So, here I am :) I don't pretend ot be a good artist, I'm just good at coming up with new tricks  etc.
My art's more about a style I like, than being "good". I dream up "scenes" and mostly just throw stuff I like in and see what mayhem I can create :D

I  started with oils and canvas in my late teens, then my 'progression' was to acrylic paints because they dried faster.....

I didn't get into digital art until almost a couple of decades later.  Like most, Bryce (5) was my first.  I got Poser a little later just so I could put dragons and unicorns into my landscapes. 

But although a good programme, Bryce just didn't do it for me with landscapes.  I felt the trees were really awful no matter how much futzing and changing materials.  And so heavy too.  So I looked at Vue 4 and that became my preferred programme.  Still is though t's 7 now.

I must admit that I nearly always do postwork because I don't always like how renders look.  Could be because I don't use the programme to it's fullest potential - or it could be me wishing I'd still got a real paintbrush in my hand   :lol:  Photoshop and Painter are just as important to me as Vue for my scenes.

A really interesting question.  I started with Vue in mid January this year but had Bryce, Rhino3D and Poser experience from 2001 and 2002.  I am by no means awesome with Vue but found it didn't take long at all to produce what I considered a half-decent image.

Three things I noticed with Vue.  First, it is amazingly intuitive (at least for me) and that made the learning curve much shallower.  Secondly, there is an unusually large volume of really good quality, free training resources around.  I must have watched 40 or 50 Vue tutorial videos in the first 2 weeks after i bought it.  I learnt alot from them.  And, thirdly, the Vue community just seems super helpful and actually wants to assist newcomers.  Questions are answered quickly and thoughtfully on this and other forums and some forum members will go the extra mile, emailing you materials, atmospheres etc and helping you with an image you might be having difficulty with.  A couple of artists in particular have been a huge help to me.

A few years back i became interested in 3D and started also with Bryce 5. After some time i planned to buy a new computer and with it i was checking out Vue Infinite 5 at that time and i totally liked it :-)

It could do ecosystems like i never seen before and it was extremely easy to get to know (the basics that is) plus it was far more responsive in whole than Bryce (which was slooooooow)
Not so long later i bought Poser 6 and Hexagon and i have not regretted any of these programs so far, i have a lot of fun with them and i love the communities here at Rendo and Geek.

True, my bank account went crazy since my hobby became 3D but there 's so much good and fun stuff around :-)

I think the quality renders are due to the excellent tutorials we all can watch now for free on the internet and also there are good video tut 's from Asilefx ...

But for me, i don 't think i make quality work, so thefixer i'm with you on that matter LOL
But i'm learning ... someday ;-)

Where's the poll lol? 

I started off using Cinema4D, then Terragen, a bit of Bryce, some Shade and a load of other apps, most of them were 5 minute wonders except for C4D which I really enjoyed.

Tried Vue from the front of a magazine cover, then I bought Vue 4 Esprit, then up to Vue 5 Inf, 6 Inf and now 7 Complete. 

6 Inf caused me no end of problems, Vue 7 is a lot more stable. As a hobbiest I just cannot afford infinite and I think E-On will need to keep there prices in check for future releases. But Vue is my program of choice currently, you really can create pictures that are out of this world.

I have paid more attention to GeekAtPlay tutorials lately, they are fantastic and well worth anyone looking at.

As with many other comments here, I don't say I am a good artist, most of my work is standard at best but I do it because I enjoy it, I like posting images to say,hey I made that. And thats it, if people like it then excellent if not then well no worries either :)

Jon

Well, depending upon whom you ask everything is different because of each situation being unique. I started out liking to do digital painting back in my days with Commodore and used the early paint programs for the Amiga later on. Being a programmer I got into making sprites for computer games, but hated it mainly due to the limitations of the technology back then. I did not even get into 3D art until several years ago.

Now, the difference is, the internet changes everything. People can not only get books to learn from, but advanced video tutorials that are quite detailed and even on-line internet video chat room courses that are certified. You can get Apple, Microsoft, Sun, etc. official certification courses straight from legit universities. I think the key is that learning in general has changed whereas before all this internet explosion you were much more isolated and limited.

Now, it's almost a requirement that companies have some sort of major support plan for their product for users to learn them and keep those sources fresh and current. You have excellent sites like lynda.com that covers many subjects, not just 3D art. As for 3D specific, there is just much more of a user base group out there now more than ever which means more material to learn from combined with a wide variety of ways to do so (Video Tutorials, Books, Official Forums, etc.) Companies like Maxon, Luxology, Autodesk, etc. all have much more documented ways of learning their tools now and the user base expects them too.

So I think you are seeing the results of many years to get us to the point of people being able to learn much better, faster and more efficient just about any software program they choose rather 3D or others.

Well my origins of digital art go back to middle age almost. I started in the early 80s last century as part of my university "career" where I had to do a one year practicum. I did it in an engineering institute (part of university) and I had to make a program working that did a graphical simulation of industrial robots.

Out of that came a career in 3D computer animation that I did for 6 years. I worked first with my own developed software (di animatzion for Enemy Mine at that time), then switched to a system called FGS 4400 and then to TDI that is nowadays part of Maya. A bit of Poser and Bryce surrounded me at that time too, but more for information what else is going on in the digital graphic world. I stopped my professional animator career when times for the first generation companies with heavy investments became difficult and do print design since then.

In 2001 I saw an advert of a new Mac program called Vue 4. Bought it and was hooked. Since then I use Vue as hobbyist only and am happy, sometimes more sometimes less. As it alway is with all sorts of programs that have their good and their bad times.

Wabe,
ah, I knew Enemy Mine was made in Germany, hey well done mate!!!
applauds
I really liked that film it wasn't the usual Hollywood "brain mulch" ;)

Started with Poser but I wanted a better render engine and ended up with Vue 6 Pro Studio.  Upgraded that to Vue 6 Infinite and then to Vue 7 Infinite but I've got sort of side tracked into Blender/Hexagon/Vray/Yafaray at the moment

Wow.  I never realized what I would learn from asking this question.  I feel like I just sat down to lunch and had a long engaging conversation with each person who has responded.  Very interesting replies.

garyandcatherine,

lol that's what happens when you start a debate ;)

My art background starts back a fair bit with a degree in Art Education. Unfortunately I found I loved the art but hated the whole school thing so have had a nifty career in retail management instead. I continued to so some painting, and then digital photography came along. Being terribly cheap I never really explored photography to the fullest before, but with digital I snap away.  At this point I have a few thousand pictures over at Flickr. Through that I've been using Photoshop Elements for a while, and one day looking at a web article about the best free arts software I came across the 3D programs. Played with Daz, Bryce, and Blender and got hooked.
Once I discovered Renderosity and similar sites, I was just floored by the amazing quality of art that's being produced in digital media these days.  I decided I wanted to move up to a more complete program than the free bryce so I took some time and looked through the galleries here just looking at genre and seeing what I really liked and what program it was done in. I found that a lot of the images I really liked were done in Vue, so i saved up and went for that. I've been in 6 Prostudio for a while now and am about to bump up to 7 Complete to get my hands on ecopainting. I've also found I really like modeling and ended up using MoI that I found to be very intuitive for the way my mind works. All this 3D has happened just within the last year. I am still learning every day, and hopefully that will continue for years.

Hi,
This is an interesting point, and I think (my opinion, for what it's worth...)  that several factors are invololved. Programs improve, the default ("make art") settings improve, there are more tutorials out there, the standard and expectations are different, etc.  On the other hand, there were a lot of very talented artists who posted here previously, who we haven't seen for a looooooong time. Why did they stop posting? Well there are several possible reasons, they are not necessarily part of this thread.
I am also not totally convinced that the standard is increasing more than what the standard default settings allow.... this is not a problem, just "I'm not totally convinced" - on the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all. We have a lot more postings than even a couple of years ago - this is very good. On the other hand, should we compare the postings to the quality to the software advances? - dunno, don't care.

Happy Easter
Rob

timspfd
Moment of Inspiration is pretty cool, and I agree , it and Rhino work like how I "build / design" things, from blue prints and curves etc ;)

Also I'd laike to add that I have seen images from "Noobs" that have clearly been made with some of the premade scenes now available at C3D such as the ones by Luigi Marini for example, but not saying so in the credits.
I'm not saying that's wrong because we've prolly all done it at some point, I know I have when using Poser, using D&M premade scene for example.
It's just maybe another reason why you can now get instant results, these things weren't available until recently in Vue terms.

Well, the reason is... you, and all the people at GeekAtPlay.

A person buys Vue. He looks around for tutorials and forums. He immediately reaches this forum and the first google hit for "vue tutorials" is GeekAtPlay.com. All the tutorials there are free, so he starts working thru them. In weeks (or at most months) he has a roughly complete knowledge of everything related to Vue, with added a lot of practical information and tips.

At this point, just add some investments in Cornucopia plants and objects and the only limit is the artistic talent of our hero.

The difference with other programs? (1) many (2) free (3) video tutorials.

A different program that is in the same condition of Vue is Hexagon: you start with E-Z basic tutorials on DAZ, then go to G@P intermediate ones and then go back to the quite advanced tutorials E-Z is developing currently.

Again, many/free/video tutorials.

Bye!!!

P.S.: I consider this advantage so significant that I have the sneaky feeling that G@P people will be "advised" not to go further with the project I saw mentioned in that G@P forum: a whole set of tutorials also for Carrara 7...

Like Walther, I started using 3D apps back when there weren't any: circa 1980's. The first application which one could actually model in and render reasonable images on the PC was called Cubicomp.

At that time, I was a Mac user and the Mac offererings were slim to none: Easy3Da nd Pro3D were very primitive solid modelers and rendered only B&W on Macs 512 x 384 screen. Soon Super 3D from Silicon Beach came to the Mac and the programmer and I became good friends. This was important as I had a direct conduit to answering questions and even adding the occasional feature I needed. Shortly thereafter I developed a 3D mockup of our implementation of the Initial Lunar Habitat for NASA using the very first version of Electric Image (called "Spotlight") to render. Some renderings done way back then (~1988):

I learned a lot about modeling and mapping during that time. Later, Kai Krause asked me if I'd test a beta version of his soon to be released program, Bryce and I said 'sure!' We both had known each other for awhile and he knew I had a lot of experience with 3D and Macs and wanted to see what I thought. I instantly fell in love with the program and started modeling directly in it with terrains, which is probably why to this day I enjoy modeling directly in Vue.

A couple early Bryce renders using terrains as models:

I then did a startup company, and started using Newtek's Lightwave-- always has been a favorite. We used 3D a lot at Human Code. I created a skunkworks division and we created the first 3D cell-shaded animated TV show pilot and marketed it to Hollywood. It was called "Avalon" and was focused on kids and ecology in a huge torus sized spaceship. We finally found a publisher for 26 episodes but was derrailed when the financier was critically injured in a car wreck. So, Avalon was never made :-(

Kinda quit 3d for quite awhile after the disappointment. Then one day many years, surfing the web came across some incredible Vue images at http://www.shiftedreality.com/ and ordered Vue 5 Infinite right then. It had the ease of use and instant gratification of Bryce, but could do oh so much more. Plus it didn't have Bryce's crazy material editor (though Bryce still has a better brush terrain editor).

It's fun reminiscing. Took me awhile to dig up some of the old images-- I hope they were as fun to view now as they were to make then.

:-)

Extremely kewl, chipp!

Chipp, you never cease to amaze us with your background, talent and vision in 3d. 

Hmmm as i can see many people started using Bryce before started using Vue. Im one of them. Bryce is a great 3d app but havent been updated for awhile and that leeds to some limitations comparing to other 3d programs. I used to post my art here on renderocity and while i was browsing to other apps i found Vue. Long story sort by seeing what it can do from other artists and checking the official site - e-onsoftware i decited to get it.
I havent regretted it at all.. well up to this time im writing these lines :)

Chipp,
we are not worthy! we are not worthy!! :p
damn nice terrian modelling, and yup Vue's terrain interface needs a big overhaul!

Pity the fella got hurt, would have been quite a mislestone, and Kai Kraus is a genius...but the DTE in Bryce does suck monkey's nuts!! ;)

Chipp - how very interesting and sooo impressive! Thanks for sharing with us.

Being that  it took me months to get to grips with vue, I hate to admit I actually also started on 'computer graphics' in 1979 :)  My filed of work was molecular graphics but the concepts were the same.
We did movies of 'dancing' molecules too. To start with we only had a black&white display, but we did color  movies on 35mm film, using mechanical color filters: for each frame we displayed all the parts that should be green, the computer triggered the green filter and the film was exposed, than all the reds were displayed and the red filter came down in front of the lens, same frame exposed, etc till all colors were done, then move to next frame...
I wonder if I can dig out some images/movies...

I must be one of the few that didnt use bryce. I got the program but didnt have a clue what to do with it. I started with poser 6 in order to use the characters as virtual models for my paintings, and then got vue 6 inf to have some descent context to pose them in. Poser isnt much fun to use, but I like vue a lot.
With all the available tuts, it is not hard to produce something that looks reasonable, but producing something that says something, that has a 'reason for being', and represents the creator uniquely- that's much harder.

I've already told a bit of my story here, but a brief summary with 3D:

1. TrueSpace 3.2 off a magazine got me started a few years back, maybe around 2000 or so.
2. Cinema 4D 6 giveaway on 3D World took me a stage further
3. Carrara 5 on a magazine came next (with Carrara 6 Pro added recently)
4. I then bought Vue Esprit 5 and began playing with it, but I really wanted EcoSystem technology, so
5. ,,, I sidegraded to Vue 5 Infinite, which came with a free upgrade to Vue 6 Infinite (them were the days!)
6. In the last two weeks I have upgraded to Vue 7 Infinite.

My main interests in 3D turned out to be in visualisation and illustration, rather than "art" as such, though I do a wide range of things, and I hope to set up business as a freelance illustrator at some point soon.

Another major component for me is Google Sketchup. It took me a bit of time to get used to Vue but I feel very at home in it now, and I love the function editor for material editing particularly.

So that's a bit about me!

Thanks
Richard

ArtPearl, thanks for the remembering. I almost completely forgot about this method to do color images output. The method we used in these early days was even more basic - for Enemy Mine as well btw. We positioned a 35 mm camera in front of the camera and either filmed it in real time (Enemy Mine) or triggered the camera picture by picture by the keyboard signal (with a manual added relay for the camera) relay that we were able to trigger from the software. This we used for some trailers for the German television channels.

I'm a newbie. In September 2006 e-frontier was giving away Poser 5, I think so that there would be more people eligible to upgrade to the upcoming Poser 7. I got my serial number but the download servers were overloaded. So I downloaded DAZ |Studio in the meantime. (I still prefer its interface to that of Poser.) I did the little tutorial where you pose a fairy in the woods. Then I started moving things around, trying this and that, and next thing you know I was hooked. Two months later I ordered Poser 7. Then I bought Bryce but could not wrap my brain around the interface. Then there was a sale on Carrara.

My fatal step was trying the PLE of Vue 6 Infinite. A week later I'd bought the real thing. Ecosystems are really really addictive, plus I personally find the Vue interface to be intuitive. (Although they say that the only really intuitive interface is the nipple. Beyond that it's all learned behavior :) )

I do have  some background in hobby photography. I found that getting an SLR back in the 1980's changed the way I saw the world.

But yes, I'd have to agree with alexcoppo that the resources available on the Internet really make the difference between then and now.

I guess most people here are just traditional artists. Afterall the render business has begun some 10 years ago or so.

I've been able to produce decent images after a quarter of year because for the regular family man it would mean 2+ years. Some people like me just have too much time on their hands.

I came to Vue if i remember correctly, because when I got Crysis I read that it was the first game to use real-time ambient occlusion SSAO. This got me interested in fullscale rendering and so I must've ended up with Vue.

Let me tell you though, the 8 months I played around with Vue in 32bit was NOT much fun, even though I had 4 gigabyte in the machine. Do yourself the favour, you deserve Win XP64!

I originally came here years ago when I was playing around with Bryce. I had many issues with the program. Hard learning curve and my inexperiance. I pretty much gave up on it. As the years went by I tried Mojoworld and a few others. Dabbling here and there for a week or two with pretty much horrid results.

Durring the last 10 years or so my main artistic focus was landscape photography and photoshop. I'm not an artist so I took pictures. During that time I guess a few things changed. I know how light works now. I know photoshop.

A year ago some health issues cropped up that put a damper on my photography pretty much permanantly.About a month ago I picked up Vue 7 and started putting some serious effort into learning it. A month later and its coming along fairly well. I'm having fun and again have an outlet for whats in my mind.

During the last month a few things about Vue have become very clear. Its only a part of what makes a good picture. I use Geocontrol for my terrains and photoshop all my renders. Without the other 2 programs I doubt I would be using vue.

As a beginning vue artist I don't know how good my work is but I do know that without the backround in photography I would have been lost.

BBRichter

I started with Bryce in 2001.  Loved it and really enjoyed 3D.  Found Poser next and started playing around with a bunch of other programs like Rhino, Cinema4D, and MojoWorld.  Once I found Vue, it was my all time favorite program.  I started with Vue 4 and have moved up to Vue 7 Infinite. 

I started with Bryce 3(whatever) and graduated up to Bryce 5.  Then one day I got Vue4 off a magazine offer and the first scene I put together without any tutorials blew anything that Bryce could do away.    The skys in Vue were way beyond what I could get out of Bryce.   I have seen lately some excellent Bryce renders so there is (are) more and better support out there than in the past.  Probably Bryce got a hand up when DAZ offered Bryce 5.5 for free.  I agree that Bryce suffered from lack of parental support and advancement for quite some time.   Poser has great potential but it takes a lot of work to get the atmosphere that Vue does naturally.

Well, I'm not completely in the Vue camp yet (I'm mostly a Carrara guy) but this thread caught my eye so I thought I'd contribute.

I started with Infini-D 3.4 in about 1996 (after dabbling with Bryce 1 & 2)
Switched to Carrara 3.5 in 2003 (followed by 4, 5, 6 & 7)
Added Vue 7 Pro Studio late last year to my toolbox

So I'm in the currently frustrating position (hopefully temporary) of knowing what I want Vue to do, knowing that it can do it, but not quite sure how to do it - or the most efficient way to do it etc. I just need more time with it, and most of the tutorials I've found are videos - which I personally don't prefer. But Vue sure does have a lot of power and nice features. I'm most impressed with the atmospheres and ecosystems of course.

Howie,
well I do written tutorials :) Partially cause my Glaswegian accent is indecipherable to most folk, lol, and it's easier t do web page text etc than video.

Like many I used Poser and Bryce back at the MetaCreations days. I moved to vresion 4 of Vue and On to Vue 5 infinite. I'm now going back to Bryce (bought version 6.1 at Daz for $36) The reason for this is that E-on has been very unfair to Vue 5 Infinite users. They offered a deal to upgrade to 6 for everyone but 5 infinite, and now offer nothing at all. No upgrade from 5. E-on is the worst money grubbing software I have experienced to this day...