I hate to beat a dead horse on the subject , but I don't think I have seen a thread where everyone agrees  on  what a true INJECTION  morph, is / should be.

I have been  creating PMD  files  as a reference for adding saved morph info  to a figure's body part params.

But I don't think this is what is accepted as a clean  version of "injecting" morphs into a figure .

I guess I have to find a way to change the code in the .cr2 directly.

I don't mind manually doing this, for instance if my  morphs are to the head , chest, and hips,   I can  edit the .cr2  in the (2) places  that  "head"  exist,  the (2) places that "chest" exist,  etc.  and replace  "head" "chest" etc with my own file name:"XXXhead" "XXXchest", etc. and those referenced files of mine need to  be located in the geometries folder.

Correct so  far?  I think  so.

But now,  if I want  scale, taper, and translate  to be "burnt in" to the .cr2, I guess I have to find those  command lines  in the .cr2  as well,  and manually change those ?
anybody know  the key words to search for in order to find those params?

Also,  i need to DELETE  a couple of embedded mags  from the base figure. but i  guess that is simple enough to find in the .cr2  and remove ( or is this going to create a problem???).

finally, in order to share these INJ morphs, If I wanted to, I guess I would need to supply only the resulting edited .cr2  file  PLUS  the related  .obj files  for  "xxx"head", "xxxchest", etc.  and have the reciever of the share place these in their geometries folder (and .cr2 in character)

seem right?

First problem I see is copyright infringement.  You are offering a modified file of an original product for free.  I would check for potential violations first before you proceed further with your process.

I certainly don't want to infringe on copyright!
I just want to  make INJ morphs that do not rely on referring to a PMD!

I thought that if i created a .cr2  of a standard Poser or Daz figure in the way that I described,   the  new referenced chest, head, etc  body parts  would show up  as a new morph dial in the body parts parameters palette - that is what it is doing for me locally as I have been  experimenting.

expamle - I replaced SG2's  reference to "chest" in the .cr2  with the name of the file "santicor_chest"  and when  I load that .cr2,   I get standard SG2, but she now has an extra morph dial called  "santicor_chest" in the params dial window.

I guess they key to what I am trying to do , WITHOUT  actually redistributing Poser or Daz code,  is to know how to  write a script that changes  only the necessary lines  of someone's standard Poser or Daz  .cr2 which they already own in their runtime,  ( and of course I must also supply the referenced .objs).....isn't this what a "true" injection morph does??????

http://www.daz3d.com/i/faq/0?id=3&_m=d

If any morph data is contained in the CR2 (and normally there is, the joint-controlled morph data) then DAZ considers it a violation of their copyright to redistribute that CR2.  Joint parameters and the JSM magnets, they allow - else there wouldn't be any conforming clothing market.  I don't know EF's license but I expect it is similar.

If you want to hand around modified CR2s like you're discussing, you need to obtain permission from the licenser (DAZ or EF) or else find a way to strip out the morph data and leave the user with a way to get it back in, if they own a licensed copy of that figure.  One method of doing this is to use RTEencoder, an example of which is here (regarding Apollo Maximus, and with Anton Kisiel's support):
http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4723

If you want to hand around modified CR2s like you're discussing

NO   i don't wanna do  that.
 I have now been enlightened  about what can  be shared and what cannot.

I am looking for the path of least resistance....   in  sharing something  that will   "alter"  adjust"  "add changes to"    a 'cr2  that someone  already owns  in their runtime  

I dont wanna give em a bunch of  .objs  and tell  them  to  go link their body parts to the .objs  as morph targets

I want to give them what people call an  injection morph file - 

what is the path of least  resistance -  i have been  creating  falsley named " injection morph" files  that  are actually a simple few comand lines  that reference a  PMD  file.

I have been  told this is  no  good.

So i thought earlier in this string about hard altering the .cr2 -  but this is no good  because it is copyrite infringement if I were to share it.

SO what is a real   INJ  morph file,   which can  be shared without a problem.
all over the content world  i  see  "INJECTION MORPHS"

what are they  -   how do I make one,    one which DOES  NOT  just tell  an exising  .cr2  to  go  look at a PMD.

For the DAZ figures this is already done, there are channels in all their figures just for this purpose.  You can distribute morphs simply as pose files, see pretty much any original morph for examples (a couple in my freebies e.g.). 

For the EF figures, blank dials are not included in the CR2, so you can do this just fine the way you've already discovered with PMD files.  Who told you this method is no good?  What's wrong with it?

edit: to clarify, the DAZ figures are done completely differently from the EF figures, and the DAZ method of "INJecting" morph data does not apply to the EF figures.

There are tools that make standard INJ morphs that are 'kosher' for distribution if they contain no derivative morph data from other peoples morphs. Some are cheap and some less so... maybe people can voice in here with their opinions on which are best and if any have problems with the Millenium 4 figures.

Some like SyrINJ create the injection pose and data from a modified geometry and some such as by Dimension3D can create them by extracting the morph data from PMD files. There are some freebie scripts such as the one by svdl that can create morph injections from a loaded .cr2.

The thing is all morph INJ of that type must 'plug into' existing morph channels in the non-distributable .cr2 which is the reason for those nasty V4 and M4 installer apps. I have long wished someone would release a royalty free script for creating new injectable channels so people could distribut injection poses for non-injection figures. PMD injections are nice because they create their own channels... is it possible to use a PMD readscript to establish channels to take traditional morph injections I wonder?

You may want to look into programs which will create the INJ/REM files for you.  Injection Magic and Injection Pose Builder are 2 off the top of my head.  Dimension3D has put one out which is excellent but the name escapes me at the moment.  Now this is assuming that the morphs are created within the Poser application with existing morph packages.  Target morphs may be treated the same way but I don't have experience performing this.  Perhaps someone else may elaborate further using this method. 

Distribution of INJ/REM files are the most acceptable method of distributing morph change, provided the user has the necessary models and morp packs installed into Poser.

*Who told you this method is no good?  What's wrong with it?

*I realize  now it may have been  folks  with a strictly  DAZ  viewpoint that steered me away  from it-  not their fault,   but I think  they did not realize that if you are interested only in  EF figures,   the PMD  method  is the really best easy way to go.

I think the problem  some people had with it is the PMD  file you need to create is just so large maybe?  if you create a bunch of different morphs you would be really starting to fill up your runtime  with large files,  I guess.

So getting back  to  "share-ability"  i  can share the PMD  file, plus the .pp2 file?? ( which, as I said, is just a command line refering to the PMD)

yes ???

hborre  -I will look into  your suggestion,  but  you said -  *Now this is assuming that the morphs are created within the Poser application with existing morph packages.Distribution of INJ/REM files are the most acceptable method of distributing morph change, provided the user has the necessary models and morp packs installed into Poser.

*the morphs are done to the base body part by me with magnets and then saved as .objs,  and then loaded  back in as morph targets, magnets then deleted.

kosher for the programs you mention? i just noticed you seemed to  be stressing that the morphs had to be a from commercial package, and had to be employed in the final  result

There is a received wisdom that PMD injections are unreliable, especially in regards to exporting characters to other applications for rendering and perhaps in making reliable .pz3 files. I have not had personal experience confirming this. If it is true... why not save the PMD injected character as a new .cr2 for rendering or 'freeze' the character morphs on the figure by use of some script such as svdl's. Do PMD inections permit a REMpose? LesBently has shown how to make a REMpose for any/all morph channels in a .cr2 regardless of their origin.

*There is a received wisdom that PMD injections are unreliable........perhaps in making reliable .pz3 files.

*I do not doubt in what you  say ....but me personally, on a local level,  i have solved  the corrupting of .pz3  files  by boiling all of the magnetization involved  in the .cr2  down  to a FBM  vis a vi the PMD  method.

I actually think for what I am doing  ( tons  of magnetizing all over the place)  that the PMD  method  adds stability

but there is something I am missing , and you are touching on it in your comment -  there is something I am missing about PMD  being unstable.

All Daz figures have a set of morph channels like PBMCCxxx or PBMDCxxx which are blank. These can be used by Daz or nyone else to add custom morphs . I believe the DC are DAZ channels and CC are Community chaanlls in the dial structuure.   There is also a script available that will add a custom morph channel to use for inj morphs. Search the Python forum for it . 

Yes you can distribute a PMD of your morphs. 

Quote - I think the problem  some people had with it is the PMD  file you need to create is just so large maybe? 

They're actually smaller than plaintext "INJ" morph data and load quite a bit faster.  It's good technology, but a real problem is that Poser has very little sanity checking going on when working with binary morphs, and if any of the data is numerically flawed (chronic problem with DAZ morph data) then the setting "Use External Binary Morphs" causes Poser to crash.  The problem isn't with PMD files per se, but rather with Poser's lack of exception handling when dealing with them.  In any case, distributing PMDs doesn't really require the user have that setting enabled and if your data loads correctly then you don't really need to worry about it.

If you're working with DAZ figures though, plaintext INJ/REM poses are the common standard.  For EF figures, I don't think there is any standard, but I would look at how things are done for various morph sets distributed for those figures and see how they're done, and try to follow the common denominator.

For people taking these morphs to other applications for rendering, they can just re-save the figure within Poser and a plaintext version SHOULD be written out, as momodot is saying.

"If you're working with DAZ figures though, plaintext INJ/REM poses are the common standard.  For EF figures, I don't think there is any standard......"

Yep, and just another reason  why   it's an M4/ V4  world......

call me crazy, I just like the Poser figures 

Thanks, everyone !

Quote - There is also a script available that will add a custom morph channel to use for inj morphs. Search the Python forum for it .

I did not find it :( If you have the time at some point could you find me a link?

@santicor... if you are using non-DAZ figures then those users won't bawk at using a PMDinjection. It is only DAZ figure users who take issue from what I can see. I have released PMD injection sets for non-DAZ figures with no complaints from anyone.

I think I found that scrip included in this clothes morph set?
http://www.sharecg.com/v/28350/poser/AS-Black-Lotus-Fit-to-GND4

QUOTE:Thanks to Alizea for permission to use her Python script! You will find inj/rem poses here to fit AS Black Lotus for V4 to Blackhearted's GND4 morph for V4. These are custom morphs I did in Zbrush. To use these files, you must own V4 from Daz, Blackhearted's GND4 morph from Renderosity and AS Black Lotus, also available at Renderosity. You must also run a python script (included with Alizea's permission) to create injection channels prior to applying the poses (instructions included in the Read Me).

* I have released PMD injection sets for non-DAZ figures with no complaints from anyone.

*momodot - link (s)?
so I can see how you put the packages together?

edit:  and maybe a link  for this? i cannot seem to  find it:
"There are some freebie scripts such as the one by svdl that can create morph injections from a loaded .cr2."

actually  yeah,   I just checked out about 6 or  7 Poser figure morphs that are offered out there,  all of em are a PMD and PZ2  for the runtime's pose library.

cool.

I just gotta figure out how to include  scaling and how to delete a particular "factory"embedded magnet from the figure   as part of this morph. 

Netherworks has a PoseWriter tool that saves scaling info. Sorry, no link. The Character maker script is here if you search freestuf for things by svdl.

You can find some info on injecting morphs in standard pz2 format in the thread "A Compendium of PZ2 Techniques.". Look for the posts titled "Delta Injection (Part 1)" through "Delta Injection (Part 7)".

For information on PMD morph injection see "Poser 6 PMD Injection" at Nerd 3D.

Quote - I just gotta figure out how to include  scaling and how to delete a particular "factory"embedded magnet from the figure as part of this morph.

To get the scaling data you could use "SCALEExport.py.txt". This will produce a pz2 (pose) file that only contains settings for the scale channels. The scale pose could be integrated with a standard INJ pz2, or if you are using a PMD injection, the command to load the PMD into the figure could be inserted into the scale pose.

Thanks for the tips  Les -  yes  Nerd  is where I learned the PMD  "injection"  in the first place

could you show me specifically,  where i would insert the few command lines..... normally saved as its own .pz2....... if I am going to  do  this:

*"......or if you are using a PMD injection, the command to load the PMD into the figure could be inserted into the scale pose."

* 

As to the magnet. If it was applied at the time the morph was made, it could be very hard to get rid of its influence from the morph. Let's assume you want to get rid of the influence of the magnet before you make the morph. To get rid of the influence of the magnet, you can either delete the magnet, or make a pose file to turn off its influence. To delete a magnet that is not visible in the Props dropdown menu; in Poser, open Hierarchy Editor. You will be able to see any magnets attached to the figure, they will have a little magnet icon next to them, click on the icon, then hit the Delete key on your keyboard. Each magnet will have three parts, a Base, a Mag, and a Zone, you will need to delete all three parts. On the other hand, if you are worried about the same magnet on the end users copy of the figure affecting the figure, you will have to make a pose file to turn off the influence of the magnet. Open the cr2 in a text editor and use the editors Search (or Find) function to find the string "deformerPropChan" (without the quote marks). After the "deformerPropChan" on the same line you will see more text, this is the internal name of the magnet. Using this information construct a pose file of the following format:

{

version
    {
    number 3
    }
 
actor [name of the actor the channel is in]
    {
    channels
        {
        deformerPropChan [name of magnet]
            {
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min 0
            keys
                {
                k  0  0
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

Applying this pose to the figure will turn off the influence of the magnet. Note that a magnet can affect more than one body part, and you need to turn it off in all affected pats. Once you have your pose to turn of the magnet, you can integrated it with the pose to load your morphs. Copy the parts of the file that are in red, and paste them into the pose to load your morph, just below the version block.

First off, I don't know who's told you that INJecting PMD files wasn't the way to go. It's quick, easy and interferes with absolutely NO copyright issues. Also they can be injected using both Poser and DS now with DS's plugin for reading PMD files.

Quote - Thanks for the tips Les - yes Nerd is where I learned the PMD "injection" in the first place could you show me specifically, where i would insert the few command lines..... normally saved as its own .pz2....... if I am going to do this:

"......or if you are using a PMD injection, the command to load the PMD into the figure could be inserted into the scale pose."

Doing it Nerd's way, insert the command to load the PMD directly under the version block like this:

{

version
    {
    number 6
    }

injectPMDFileMorphs MyFigure.pmd

[the rest of the pose file goes here]

To take another example from Nerd: {

     version
     {
          number 6
     }
     injectPMDFileMorphs MyFigure.pmd
     createFullBodyMorph MyBodyMorph
     attachFBMdial MyBodyMorph WeirdExtraMorph
     attachFBMdial MyBodyMorph WeirdSecondMorph
[all of the above stuff would go directly below the version block]
[the rest of the pose file goes here]

Quote - First off, I don't know who's told you that INJecting PMD files wasn't the way to go. It's quick, easy and interferes with absolutely NO copyright issues.

"absolutely NO copyright issues" I'm sorry, but that statement is not true! Exactly the same copyright issues apply to injections in PMD format as in standard delta injection!

Les said: *On the other hand, if you are worried about the same magnet on the end users copy of the figure affecting the figure, you will have to make a pose file to turn off the influence of the magnet.

*EXACTLY- i have gotten rid of this set of mags on MY figure, but if I was to share this morph  the reciever would have to shut off this set of mags in their own version of the figure -  thank you - you have cleared it up!

so could i  set it up the whole thing: inject PMD,  and inject scale params pose, and set unwanted mags to  zero by using the one following file: (I am asking because i do not see what you put in  red ink)  :

{

     version
     {
          number 7
     }
     injectPMDFileMorphs MyFigure.pmd
     createFullBodyMorph MyBodyMorph
     attachFBMdial MyBodyMorph WeirdExtraMorph
     attachFBMdial MyBodyMorph WeirdSecondMorph

[ and here i would put command from the scale changing pose.....followed by:]

actor [name of the actor the channel is in]
    {
    channels
        {
        deformerPropChan [name of magnet]
            {
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min 0
            keys
                {
                k  0  0
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

[..........Yes I am  a bit new to this.
sorry! ]

*I don't know who's told you that INJecting PMD files wasn't the way to go.

*L.I.S.man -  I didn't make clear, the last time I discussed this with some folks, that I was not using DAZ figures- I use Poser figures  almost exclusively - and therefore I can understand that DAZ figure users guided me away from the PMD injection format, as Daz allows for customization of available blank morph channels. For folks who thought I am head over heels for Vicky or Aiko, they were probably right, PMD would not be the best way to  go- especially cuz in Poser you can have problems  with binary morph channels.

But at the end of the day, I have found  it's quite clear that for non-Daz figures, PMD INJ  is the best bet.
The copyrite thingy -  well, people have difering takes on this- and I will try not to upset  EF or SM or whoever it is now ....I will  ask knowledgeable people there about it. I do know that nothing in life is a total  rock solid guarantee about what is and isn't - no matter who ya ask.

@ santicor. I'm sorry, I meant to include colour coding in the example, but forgot to do it.

Yes the way you have it should work fine.

I'll amend my oversight, and post that code snippet again - with the colour coding - this time.

{

version
    {
    number 3
    }
 
<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">actor [name of the actor the channel is in]<br></br>    {<br></br>    channels<br></br>        {<br></br>        deformerPropChan [name of magnet]<br></br>            {<br></br>            initValue 0<br></br>            hidden 0<br></br>            forceLimits 0<br></br>            min 0<br></br>            keys<br></br>                {<br></br>                k  0  0<br></br>                }<br></br>            }<br></br>        }<br></br>    }</span>
}

Thank you, Sir

Quote - > Quote - First off, I don't know who's told you that INJecting PMD files wasn't the way to go. It's quick, easy and interferes with absolutely NO copyright issues.

"absolutely NO copyright issues" I'm sorry, but that statement is not true! Exactly the same copyright issues apply to injections in PMD format as in standard delta injection!

No Les, they don't. If the PMD file only contains the morphs you created there is no problem in distributing them. Period. As long as the PMD is entirely your morph data it doesn't contain anything of the original whatsoever.

I created all my Morphs for the Poser figures as well as some DAZ figures in Zbrush and distributed the morphs as PMD INJections. Just check all my freebies. The PMD files don't contain any copyrighted DAZ morphs or Poser figure morphs and are still available.

Quote - No Les, they don't. If the PMD file only contains the morphs you created  there is no problem in distributing them. Period. As long as the PMD is entirely your morph data it doesn't contain anything of the original whatsoever.

"If the PMD file only contains the morphs you created [and if that morphs have  not been contaminated] there is no problem in distributing them. Period." Yes LostinSpaceman that statement is exactly right. And it is also exactly the point!  The key word is "IF" the PMD file only contains the morphs you created you can distribute it, but there is nothing inherent to the PMD format to insure that, or even help you be sure, that the morphs in the file are yours and are not contaminated with proprietary data.

It's exactly the same as saying "if you carry a red bag and don't put any stolen goods in it you can't be convicted of theft". Very true, but if you carry a blue bag and don't put any stolen goods in it, you can't be convicted of theft either. The colour of the bag has absolutely nothing to do with it, the bag is just a container!

In exactly the same way, whether your morphs are in a PMD, or a traditional delta injection PZ2, has absolutely nothing to do with the legality of the contents. The same morph in a PMD will be exactly as legal or illegal as it would be in a traditional INJ. There is nothing about a PMD that helps to assure you that the morphs you put in it are legal, and exactly the same goes for a traditional INJ.  In this respect they are the same!

Dude, I don't know what you're trying to pull here with this straw man argument stuff about what's in the bag. If I create morphs in Zbrush. They're mine. Anyone with half a brain cell would know that they did the work themselves. It sounds to me like you're trying to scare someone off from being a content creator of morphs as their own stuff with boogy men. What exactly is your point?

Nevermind. I get it. Buyer's don't have the assurance of knowing how the morphs were made, but as far as that goes. Nobody can really tell how the morphs were created in PMD or Delta or any other method. It's up to the creators to be honest with their work. I get it. I'm just a little dense after spending the past 5 days scanning a lifetime's worth of photos into the computer and my brain is fried.

Quote - Dude, I don't know what you're trying to pull here with this straw man argument stuff about what's in the bag. If I create morphs in Zbrush. They're mine. Anyone with half a brain cell would know that they did the work themselves. It sounds to me like you're trying to scare someone off from being a content creator of morphs as their own stuff with boogy men. What exactly is your point?

I resent what you have said above, and feel you have absolutely no grounds for saying it.

In your original statement you said about PMD that "It's quick, easy and interferes with absolutely NO copyright issues."

Well NO, that's not true, I could send you dozens of PMD files that do infringe copyright. If did that I'd prove my point, but probably get sued. And what is the point?

There is nothing inherently safe about PMD. And form your quote above you seem to be claiming that there is. Nonsense! Neither is there anything inherently dangerous about them. The point is NOT that PMD is safe, or dangerous, the point IS that it is totally irrelevant. And to claim that if you package morphs in a PMD you will have "absolutely NO copyright issues", as if the mere act of  placing morphs in a PMD somehow magically removed any copyright restrictions, is dangerous garbage.

Whether your package is PMD or some other format is not relevant, it's what you put into the package that determines whether it will be in breach of copy right. NOT the format of the package!

P.S. As to your post above, I don't get the relevance of that either.

Quote - Dude, I don't know what you're trying to pull here with this straw man argument stuff about what's in the bag. If I create morphs in Zbrush. They're mine. Anyone with half a brain cell would know that they did the work themselves. It sounds to me like you're trying to scare someone off from being a content creator of morphs as their own stuff with boogy men. What exactly is your point?

I think what Les is trying to point out that even wioth just deltas (be it with INJ or PMD's) one can get themselves in trouble.
One example is, you can't create a character from dials alone, and distribute it as deltas, because it would circumvent people having to have specific morph packages to use the character. Character created from morph dials alone can only be distributed as Morph Poses, and not as injectable deltas or PMD's

Characters made in Zbrush or other modeling programs are not likely to infringe on any morph dial character copyright territory...

The 'safe' part of doing deltas or PMD's is that you are not in a position where you may inadvertantly distribute a copyrighted part of a cr2. But, that's not the only way one can get themselves in hot water copyright wise when making a character.

Yes Conniekat8, that's along the lines I thinking about. But it's more that just deliberately using DAZ (or someone else) dials. There are other pitfalls out there.

Whether it is for an INJ or PMD, the morph will usually have been in figure in Poser before the deltas are exported from that (there are exceptions, as in morphs created in PLH). I hold that the best way to be confident that there in no proprietary morph data in the deltas you export and package, is th start with a cr2 that has had all the targetGeom (morph) channels stripped out of it. If you start this way, then only add morphs that you have made your self in a modelling application, by morphing the original base mesh, or mad directly on the figure in Poser, then there is virtually no chance that your morphs are contaminated with proprietary morph data.

Now some people might think that starting with a morph stripped cr2 in not necessary, but if you don't it is very easy to end up with contaminated morphs.

Now just to take one example, say you spawn a head morph in V4. You made sure that all FBM dials in the Body were set at zero, and dito with the morph dials in the head. You spawn the morph, but if the eyes were not pointing straight forwards, you morph is contaminated. This is because morphs in the head are slaved to rotation dials in the eyes. Even if you load a figure and don't touch it there is a possibility that some morphs are not set at zero. I remember that V2 loaded with one of the head morphs expressed. And there is even the possibility that the figure may contain some hidden morph that loads expressed. So it is not hard to get contamination.

I don't want to scare anybody. But if you want to be sure that your morphs are not contaminated. Then either start with a morph stripped figure. Or make your morphs from the base mesh in a modelling app, and create the deltas directly from that in PLH or similar, without even touching Poser.

As to whether we should be scared of distributing contaminated morphs, that's another question entirely. It must have happened many times, but personally I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted. I'm not making a moral case here, or scare people, I'm just trying to tell people what will and what won't safeguard there morphs from contamination. A morph stripped cr2 will help a PMD won't. I'm not saying a PMD will hurt, just that it won't help.

Thank you for that info,  Les.
What you just spoke about is one of the reasons, aside from looking horrible, that I needed to  strip embedded shaping mags from some body parts on G2  before saving my morphs

As far as the comments between LISman  and you - I think I understood where LISman  was coming from in context -  He meant,  ASSUMING  I have not recycled other existing work in a PMD,  that a PMD  is a way diferent situation than redistributing a CR2 that is not my own ( which is  most definitely a problem). And you are just being semantically precise in pointing out that the file extension  PMD  does not really in and of itself  absolve anyone  from anything.

Quote - P.S. As to your post above, I don't get the relevance of that either.

The relevance of the second post was me appologizing for not understanding your point because I wasn't thinking straight. It had been a very long and tiring day and I wasn't making sense of what you were trying to say. Yes, I know very well that people can package up dial spin morphs as PMD's and Delta's and infringe upon copyrights.

It seemed, in my mind at the time I was reading your posts though, that you were trying to say that nobody should release anything in PMD because it would infringe on copyright. After rereading your posts several times I finally figured out what you were saying but it was too late to edit my previous post so I added the "nevermind I understand your point" post. Sorry for my confusion, it happens sometimes.

Stress has very unhappy side effects on the minds of those of us who are living with HIV & diabetes and all I can say is I'm sorry I didn't try re-reading several times before I posted. I just wasn't thinking clearly.

Quote - Thank you for that info,  Les.
What you just spoke about is one of the reasons, aside from looking horrible, that I needed to  strip embedded shaping mags from some body parts on G2  before saving my morphs

As far as the comments between LISman  and you - I think I understood where LISman  was coming from in context -  He meant,  ASSUMING  I have not recycled other existing work in a PMD,  that a PMD  is a way diferent situation than redistributing a CR2 that is not my own ( which is  most definitely a problem). And you are just being semantically precise in pointing out that the file extension  PMD  does not really in and of itself  absolve anyone  from anything.

That was precisely what I was trying to say Santicor and thanks for understanding. I tend to assume the best intentions in content creators unless proven otherwise. Yeah, I know that's a pie in the sky assumption, but I don't like being synical about people. Life's too short.

No worries LostinSpaceman.

I guess I owe an apology too. In my mind I had moved on from the original posts, that referred to distributing cr2 files, and thinking that the issue had been settled, had almost forgotten about them. I was concentrating on the difference (or lack of it) between traditional delta injection where the deltas are uncompressed, and PMD injection where the deltas are compressed. I guess I failed to make that sufficiently clear.

Any way "All well that ends well".  HANDSHAKE

Yes. Shake's Hands as well. I should know better than to post when overly tired. Unfortunately that's when I'm usually not thinking straight.