E-On annouced version 7.5 today in their newsletter.  $295.00 upgrade from 7 Infinite.  Same cost to upgrade to 8 from either version when it becomes available.  i think I'll pass.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/newsletter/

John
. 

Looks like Terragen2 is the way to go!  E-on has priced themselves out of our market. 

im sorry but e-on really are shooting themselves in the foot

295 dollars to upgrade to something that probably doesnt work either is a waste of money, im out on this one.

RIDICULOUS.

I love vue, but im not being held to ransom to get my copy of vue to work.

For that feature list, assuming those are the best features planned, then $295 is way too much in this financial climate. I'm out.

Quote - E-on has priced themselves out of our market. 

I have to agree. Vue 7 is only about 6 months old  and I purchased Infinite at the beginning of this month. I cannot say I am very happy with this. :(

Ditto all the above......very disappointing :(

Well, there's also this to read before firing all weapons:
Quoting from same newsletter:
"At the time of releasing Vue 7.5, we will also release a free Vue 7.4 service pack for all Vue 7 products (including Esprit, Pro Studio and Complete). This service pack will add new functionality to Vue 7 and will be available at no cost for all Vue 7 users."

Quote - Well, there's also this to read before firing all weapons:
Quoting from same newsletter:
"At the time of releasing Vue 7.5, we will also release a free Vue 7.4 service pack for all Vue 7 products (including Esprit, Pro Studio and Complete). This service pack will add new functionality to Vue 7 and will be available at no cost for all Vue 7 users."

Yes...   but wasn't one (or more) of the features of xStream to be able to paint eco systems within ALL of the applications? Now...   in 7.5 you will be able to do it in XSI. And forget about Lightwave. 7.4 won't have these functionalities since they WILL be in 7.5.

Been a Vue user and upgraded everything since 3. Version 6 is the first I stopped at. Looking at what they've done, I'm glad I didn't upgrade. I WILL spend the money on T2 though.

Terragen2!

*The cost of the upgrade to the next version of Vue will be the same
whether you upgrade from Vue 7 or Vue 7.5

THAT bit proves E-On have lost their %$king minds!! The SAME price to upgrade, even if I spend $295 to get version 7.5?! RETARDS!!! A$$HOLES!!!!
I got free upgrades from lightwave 8.0 to 9.5 by comparison.

:cursing:
Sorry for the language, but E-On have been smoking the corporate bong for sure! Jeesh.

What a wasted opportunity, as the add ons are looking good, it's what they need ot UNDO the problems they've caused:- grotesquely over complex product list (have you seen their price list? that's stupid, a customer wants a SIMPLE choice,compare to Carrara's price/product list)

• Put prices way too high by at least 20%, compare ot Carra and Lightwave and see the point.
• Still too many bugs, probably becuase of their overly complex ystem, when all they should have are 3 products: Studio ($100), Infinite ($400) and Xstream ($750).

Bah, "French Revolution" time for every corporate idiot across the globe, lol!! ;)

Looks to me like most of the new features are really aimed at higher-end studios/users.  The terrain material painting and spherical terrains/planets looks kinda interesting though.  I wonder how much of the new stuff will find its way into 7.4.?

I have to say E-On have really messed this up, the "feature" list isn't that fab, and I dont believe they will add anything that can justify that price.

Bad call E-On

Jon

The comparative chart at e-on says terrain painting will be in 7.4, and looks like many other features will be too. Free. For all. This is no french revolution, this is communism! lol!  Somebody shoot'em!

Yes, looks like they made some neath new functions, but i also gonna skip this one due to the cost and due to currently out of a job.

Think i'm gonna stick with Vue7.21Inf on my computer anyway because i don 't think it can handle any upgrade no more LOL !

But i will follow the developments for shure !

Quote - *The cost of the upgrade to the next version of Vue will be the same
whether you upgrade from Vue 7 or Vue 7.5

THAT bit proves E-On have lost their %$king minds!! The SAME price to upgrade, even if I spend $295 to get version 7.5?! RETARDS!!! A$$HOLES!!!!
I got free upgrades from lightwave 8.0 to 9.5 by comparison.

:cursing:
Sorry for the language, but E-On have been smoking the corporate bong for sure! Jeesh

I think the point that e-on was trying to make is that is may be more cost effective to buy maintenance at $395 which will get you the 7.5 release and Version 8 when it becomes available.  Given that the Vue 6 to Vue 7 updgrade is priced at  $395 and will probably stay the same or go higher for Vue 7 to Vue 8, the $395 maintenance plan may be the way to go to lock in a price for Vue 8 and get access to the 7.5 release.  At a minimum, I do like the fact that e-on is not going penalize me economically if I decide not to get the 7.5 release.  I do wish there were some more details on what's in 7.4 and what they are thinking about with Vue 8.  It would make the buy/no-buy decision easier.

Bruno,
It's not their craniums I'd be lopping off with a guillotine, no, I'm too nice for that...but I'm not above chopping off their favourite manly parts!!! :tt2:

It's that one bit I highlight that's totally out of order, and undoes the good they have done, jeesh.
To you guys, maybe £200 isn't much, to me it's nearly half of what I get each month,.
You do not need ot be ILM to use Infinite or benefit from it, that's a croc.
E-On did themselves out of a sale when they drove Xstream's price through the roof.
Now if they price most folk away from Infinite, as they have been doing...wonderful, all that's gonna do is weaken Vue's user numbers and increase piracy :/

As I've said, Vue needs pruned down to 3 versions: Studio, Infinite; Xstream, and prices reduced, the simplicity will help buyers, reduce bug fixing woes (cause folk ARE having problems with the modular upgrades); and encourage buyers.

I can buy Carrara 7 Pro for about $380 'cause I have platinum club, for a comparison.

As far as pushing the maintenance plan, that only works if Vue 8 were released within a year; as the maintenance plan is a yearly cost as I understand it.  It seems to be much like trueSpace's Proteam approach.

I'll be interested in what 7.4 includes, and I will enjoy what i have.  But I can't justify the upgrade.

John

Wow, glad I'm not around with you being in such a "chopping it all off" mood, lol!
I think the upgarde from 7 to 8 will be the smae , more or less, than from 6 to 7, it won't add the cost from 7 to 7.5+ 7.5 to 8, at least this is how I read it.
Most of the 7.5 features will also make it to the free 7.4, according to the Vue7 feature list available at e-on's, so I don't think many non pro users will upgrade if they don't have a maintenance plan.

"I can buy Carrara 7 Pro for about $380 'cause I have platinum club, for a comparison."
Sure, but what for? -)

Do you remember when I forecast that prices would go up and upgrades would become less significant? I was branded a troll to be insulted and ostracized.

In case you consider creating planets a great step, please check this page on Sourceforge, it will teach you something.

Well, at least you can skip this intermediate version and go straight to 8 (actually I was expecting 7.5 to be a prerequisite for 8).

Just today I checked Terragen2. The version without animation module is currently 199$ though I read in one of the Planetside forum that they will increase soon the price by 100$ (i.e. 299$); there is a free, size/render quality limited version without time limits to try it.

Bye...

P.S.: I am not happy. I would have prefered Vue to continue be the best (and quite affordable) landscaping program and not turn into this thing.

P.P.S.: E-On added support for VRay. Isn't it amusing for a rendering program with ecosystems to download rendering to a program which handles instacing? it is almost a tongue twister.

I dont mean to drone on but really, shouldnt they consider fixing the problems with the current program rather than lumping out extra things we have to pay for?

I personally would like to see the exporter module up and running before ill be paying for anything further from e-on, or the module taken down from sale till it actually works properly. (yes I have reported this (twice) with no success, and shall continue to do so till it is fixed or I have my money back for the module)

I dont want to sound overly negative, but they are just going to drive away customers and end up running themselves into the ground and destroying what should be one of the best 3d packages around.

Well that does it for me. I started with version 4.   I can't afford Vue anymore.  I very reluctantly paid to go from 6inf to 7inf.  This is the last straw.  I'm unregistering all my Vue software and selling it all.  Time to bail out.  Bye E-on.

I know you mean well :)
But what if after paying $395, Vue 8 doesn't come out until more than a year after I buy the maintenance plan, which is then outside the "free upgrade" time?
And do you think I can just pull that kind of money out my ass? :/

E-On's attitude is seemingly saying it doesn't want "scumbag normal Joe Blow users, it only wants business customers who will ALSO pay for maintenance, yes you have to pay TWICE just to keep going with this app!",
that's how folk will see this, think about it a minute...it's going down like a lead balloon, regardless of facts or how E-On may actually mean it.
This is incredibly badly thought out, and alas, typical of "corporate" stupidity.

it also means it will have a LOT more folk demanding direct maintenance help because they have paid for it just to avoid being screwed over...which will tie up more E-On staff...

E-On needs ot pull it's head out of it's cloudy ass and re-think it's attitude and how it presents itself. All of this and the complexity of versions and bugs = E-On doesn't get a good name.
They need to get back in touch with their grass roots customers, pare their products versions and prices down, ask customers questions a LOT more, put feedback questionnaires up or whatever.

Simple fact that corporates simply cannot get their heads around:
digital products, you can potentially sell them to every person Earth with broadband...
never occurs to corporates, always how much they can get per customer is what they think about.

Ah well.

I agree that 7.5 seems overpriced for the hobbyist but there's a very good alternative - get 7.4 for free, which has most of the features of 7.5, and upgrade to 8 when it comes out. This is probably the best route for hobbyists, and it's not bad at all, I would say, because upgrade to 8 will still cost the same.

The professional studios can afford 7.5 and they will get it now, the hobbyists will get 7.4 (almost the same) for free. How can that be bad? Later on, both of us, hobbyists and pros, will upgrade to 8 at the same cost. This whole strategy seems good news to hobbyists, the way I see it, while still allowing e-on to make some extra money from the pros with this interim version. It's not a bad idea, actually... It's a win-win-win situation.

I don't use the latest version of Photoshop. When I compared it's features to my CS3, I couldn't justify the cost. I do fine with CS3..no problems.

Hey, unless you NEED the new features, why upgrade? As Bruno says, 7.4 will also be released when 7.5 is released. Remember 7.5 isn't released YET. It's just announced that there's a pre-release version for all those who currently have the maintenance program-- primarily professionals. And do you guys really want to test the pre-release version of 7.5? .

The Vue 7.5 series is the professional line of Vue product, and their intended market is not hobbyists. Sure, hobbyists use it, but I imagine at some point the hobbyists will either quit upgrading or start using the Vue Artist line as it's just too expensive for them. Furthermore, do we really need the ability to render clouds in their own alpha layer for later compositing with HD captured video on an expensive frame store? Not me, but the pros have been asking for that option for awhile.

There are many professional level products in many different software areas. Pro-Engineer is another one which comes to mind. Hobbyists just cannot afford it. City Engine is another very high priced 3D software which most hobbyists might want, but cannot afford.

Let's see, what do other professional annual maintenance programs cost?

3DS Max: $495
AutoCad: $450
Maya Unlimited: $1295
Revit: $695

So, unless you just can't stand not having the latest version, just keep using 7.0-- there doesn't seem to be THAT much difference. Also, when 8.0 finally does come around, you won't have to complain about it's upgrade path, as you'll have the same upgrade costs as the 7.5 users.

It seems everytime Vue releases a new version there's plenty of hoopla and threats and name-calling, mostly by the usual suspects. No big surprise as this forum is comprised mostly by hobbyists, like myself, who don't typically have a pro 3d budget for purchasing their 3d software.

Quote - Let's see, what do other professional annual maintenance programs cost?

3DS Max: $495
AutoCad: $450
Maya Unlimited: $1295
Revit: $695

So, unless you just can't stand not having the latest version, just keep using 7.0-- there doesn't seem to be THAT much difference. Also, when 8.0 finally does come around, you won't have to complain about it's upgrade path, as you'll have the same upgrade costs as the 7.5 users.

But how many of these programs go up SO HIGH in price so quickly? What was the price increase between Vue5I, Vue6I and Vue7I - not even going towards the xStream pricing that still does NOT do what it was advertised?

ALL programs were supposed to be able to do eco-system painting within their respective programs. And now for 7.5 they tout one of the "new" features as eco-system painting within the appllication. What's up with that?

Quote -

ALL programs were supposed to be able to do eco-system painting within their respective programs. And now for 7.5 they tout one of the "new" features as eco-system painting within the appllication. What's up with that?

Not completely true, e-on always said painting in those apps was the ultimate goal, but wasn't possible at the time Vue7 was out, be it because of software architecture, or lack of communication between dev teams. So this time they were able to add XSI, but not Maya nor LW.

Just got my newsletter and I fall in the camp of the "seriously pissed" people!

I upgraded to Vue 7 Infinite from day 1, they still haven't sorted the import of Poser shaders  and a whole host of other issues ongoing in version 7 and now they release this [soon] with a whopping price tag, it should be free to all users of Infinite and above period!

I won't be buying at that price, like Sirenia above I'm currently out of work so haven't got it and even if I did I wouldn't get it, it's a bloody rip off and if they don't price version 8 reasonably I won't get that either.
They should really open their eyes on this one before they lose a good swathe of their "loyal" customer base.
I'd argue with anyone that the majority of e-on's customers are hobby or small scale selling artists and not big Companies like ILM. If they want to alienate all of those, they're going the right way about it.
Rant over, but seriously I feel let down with the cost and the fact that Version 7 still doesn't work as it should.

Quote - But how many of these programs go up SO HIGH in price so quickly? What was the price increase between Vue5I, Vue6I and Vue7I 

Vue 5 Infinite shipped March 14, 2005 and sold for $599.
Vue 6 Infinite shipped in October 2006 and sold for $699
Vue 7 Infinite shipped in October 2009 and sold for $895

People, read the Vue7 feature list at e-on: 90% of the 7.5 features will be released for free as a 7.4 update, is this also bad for their loyal user base?
Don't you want to know what you're talking about, or are you just in the mood for a rant?
And thefixer, those who'll buy 7.5 don't give a damn about Poser. I know it's important for you, but they want cloud masks.

*And thefixer, those who'll buy 7.5 don't give a damn about Poser.

*I know that Bruno and that wasn't the point I was making. Sure I use Poser a lot inside Vue because e-on said that they work together.....in their words "seamlessly".
But to be honest you're making assumptions that I only ever use Poser inside Vue and nothing else because that is all I post here, you couldn't be more wrong.
I do commercial work also that sometimes does, but mostly doesn't have Poser content in so maybe I would like some of these better features also.
I don't consider myself a pro but I do make some money off what I do.

What I'm pissed about is that I spent on 7 Infinite when it came out, what less than 12 Months ago and now they release another version when they haven't even got this current one running properly and at a price to the "loyal despite all the problems" customer base.
Maybe they need to decide once and for all which direction they want to go in.

No, I wasn't assuming anything, I was just saying that some features are important to the hobbyist market, and other features are important to the pro market. And I think e-on made themselves clear with Vue7, clearly separating the 2 markets with Pionneer to Complete on the hobbyist side, and Inf & xSt on the pro side.
Choosing your camp at that time was tough, and implied more that paying more or less for your software, it also implied that you would follow along the pro path if you chose Infinite, that has features clearly implemented for the big studios, and not for those who want to make a pretty picture of a naked V4 (just an example, not aimed at anyone, I do some naked V4 too).

Bruno, I dare say there are many of us that fall between the 2 camps such as myself, mainly a hobbyist but also make some money out of it. It's becoming more difficult to decide which way to go.

As far as 7.5 goes, and this is obviously only my view, I won't be paying for an upgrade this time out, especially as they've apparently said that the upgrade price from 7 and 7.5 to 8 will be the same!
That makes no sense and doesn't encourage me to buy 7.5 when I can wait for version 8 and get it at the same price as someone who does upgrade to 7.5!!??? It's nuts, essentially they are saying that if you buy 7.5 at $300 you have to pay to get 8 at say another $400, making $700, whereas if I don't buy 7.5, I can still upgrade from 7 for $400 thereby saving myself $300, bloody crazy!!
Someone whoever thought of this pricing scheme over there needs a good kick up the arse, Alan Sugar would have fired him ages ago!!

I think the "same upgrade price to 8 from 7 or 7.5" seals it for me ... it's a no brainer to wait until 8 comes out. Still learning the new v7 features and enjoying those for now.

Will the 7.5 features be included in the v8 release? If so, it's a COMPLETE no brainer to wait, unless you're a pro studio who needs the new stuff yesterday.

Exactly, Richard, I think too that this upgrade is for those who have a mantenance plan, it gives them new features, and important ones like cloud masks, and works also as an incentive to buy those plans. For this reason, I don't think the pricing is stupid. Only the big studios who need the new features will buy 7.5, and the others will get it for free if they have a plan.
The rest will get most of the new features for free with 7.4, and can wait for Vue8 knowing the upgrade path will be standard.
Thefixer, I agree the line can be very thin between artist/studio products. Choosing sides was a tough desicion e-on forced us to make.

I can't find the comparison chart at e-on, can someone point me in the right direction please.
From what I've seen, probably the only feature I would want is the planet stuff, if that's part of 7.4, great, if not I'll wait for 8.
I've calmed down a bit now after the initial shock!! [LOL].

Just my thoughts:

As I read the news about 7.5 the first time at E-on's site I was confused about the pricing like many others.

Pay 295,00 for the upgrade and when Vue8 will come out pay again the full update price...

The more I think about it,  I did not fand that too bad.

With the 7.4 update we will receive a lot of features of the 7.5 update  for free.

The features not included in the free update are probably requested by some "pro users".

Those "pro users" usually have a "pro budget" for software updates, and for them $ 295,00 isn't that much.

For me - using Vue as a hobby - the missing features are not very interesting and I am glad to

get some new features for free.

And I do not have to pay twice for the 7.5 update and the 8 release.

Cheers

Ralf

   Quote - "Someone whoever thought of this pricing scheme over there needs a good kick up the arse"

thefixer, read my previous post in this thread. If you think about it, you'll see that this pricing scheme is very intelligent.

People are now ranting about 7.5 being too expensive when in fact you should be happy that 7.4 has a lot of the same features and it's free!!! And furthermore, whoever doesn't buy 7.5 will not pay more for the upgrade to 8. This is excellent, what else could you ask??

I really don't understand the reason of all these complaints. Concentrate on the positive things!

Thefixer, it's in the Vue7 infinite feature list. Check the features marked as NEW, and it's wrtitten when the new feature is with 7.4

Quote - People, read the Vue7 feature list at e-on: 90% of the 7.5 features will be released for free as a 7.4 update, is this also bad for their loyal user base?
Don't you want to know what you're talking about, or are you just in the mood for a rant?
And thefixer, those who'll buy 7.5 don't give a damn about Poser. I know it's important for you, but they want cloud masks.

I will have to look more closely then.  i did not see anything about 7.4 other than it saying it would have new features.  I didn't see where it said what those features were, or that it would have 90% of the 7.5 features.  I could be blind. 

OK, I am blind.   I looked again and now see that the designation of what is in the 7.4 update is at the end of the line.  Maybe they should have posted it at the beginning to make it easier for dolts like me to see.  :-)

John

I didn't see anything worth 50% of the cost of V7I  in the 7.5 upgrade, so like everyone else here, I'll just wait for the 8.0 version as well, and evaluate the costs then.

OK, upon further thought i am not as bothered by this as I was at first.

I think E-On is conciously trying to ween hobbyist users off of the Infinite line; and towards the Complete line.  It would not surprise me if Vue 8 Xstream rises to 1995.00 and Infinite to 1295.00.

They could then offer us Complete for around 500.00 - 700.00. 

Just my 2 1/2 cents.

John

Well, I guess I'm glad I waited to upgrade 6...

I just don't see what was so urgent about new features that it couldn't wait for a full 8 release. Why bother release a half-way product when you could just take the time and do it right? While some of the features in the list are nice, there is no drop-down must have feature unless you're using a program like XSI. E-on should have just released the .4 update and waited until 8 was ready to release the rest. It doesn't benefit anyone to rush these things out the door and try to nickel and dime your loyal customers.

so this is the email of HTML I got this morning......

The problem is that e-on customers are beta testers. All releases are beta since e-on don't know how to test them.
People hope the bugs will be fixed in next version, pay for but next version comes with new bugs. It's no ending.

They don't even know how to make a software, algorithm maybe, not software.
I have waste too much time to fill bug reports without any fix, so I'm tired of installation, upgrade, downgrade this piece of sh.
So I'm staying at Vue 6.
If I find an alternate, I will throw Vue to the trash with no regrets. Too many hope. Too bad implementation. Too much frustrating.
Really there is a market for Vue frustated customers , sort of Open Vue that could imports Vue files like OpenOffice import MSWord ;)

Quote - The comparative chart at e-on says terrain painting will be in 7.4, and looks like many other features will be too.

Where is this comparative chart, please? I can not find it.

Bruno,
yer way too positive about this ;)

The vast majority of Vue users are not studios,  and as I noted, what damn near killed a lot of the big apps was them getting too arrogant and greedy so they priced themselves out of  the reach of anything but studios and pirates...which wrecked their legit user base.

Vue is an art app, not an ICBM launch control software! :D
ANYONE can now use any version of Vue, except Xstream plugins (as that requires another app), on their home PCs, right?
What I'm saying about 3 versions of Vue, is to fit Vue to the 3 types of real user there are:

-Beginners/happy to be amateurs who don't need more expense/hassles
-dedicated amateurs/semi-pro (which many here are)
-Pro and/orstudio (who only need Vue for landscape/plant combined with their main feature app such as 3DMAX)

Vue is merely an ADD ON app to the "Big boys" and here E-On better get it's act together, for it's real support is the amateurs, not the pros, who may drop it in an instant if a new, better solution comes aorund. Then where will E-On be if they piss off their real dedicated customers?

Wise man never ever angers his core user base, I've seen it happen so often to smart arse corporates who end up wrecking it all or leaving simmering resentment etc.

You do not need ot be, nor should ever encourage Vue to be an arrogant, "studio pro only" app. There is a hell of a lot of snobbery and short sightedness like that out there. Guy on CG talk got lots of compliments, until he said he'd used Poser...

Again, the reality of what E-On has done doesn't matter...they have done it in a way that looks very bad. I love Vue, I want it to continue, E-On is making this less likely by being nitwits in certian areas:
over complexity, over priced (that graph proves it obviously); not being saavy in how they do things with customers.
If they had any sense they'd make 7.5 free or have done things a LOT better, jeesh.

Oh, and Bruno, I've always liked Nixon's statement: "When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will surely follow!"
Works for me, especially with a good old fashioned mole grip! :D

Quote - > Quote - The comparative chart at e-on says terrain painting will be in 7.4, and looks like many other features will be too.

Where is this comparative chart, please? I can not find it.

Look at the feature list for Vue 7 at E-on's site.  There are several of the listings that say new in 7.4.

Quote - The vast majority of Vue users are not studios, and as I noted, what damn near killed a lot of the big apps was them getting too arrogant and greedy so they priced themselves out of the reach of anything but studios and pirates...which wrecked their legit user base.

While I don't know if the vast majority of Vue users are not studios, an even more important question is where does the vast majority of the sales revenue come from? I doubt either you or I know the answer to that one.

Steven, you've always been such a great supporter of this community. It's clear you're upset. But, I'm not sure you won't calm down once you realize there's no penalty for not upgrading now, and you can get Vue 8 for the same price. 

As Bruno said, this is an upgrade for the studios-- the professionals. It's not meant to be something for the hobbyists, and that's one reason it's marked 7.5 and not 8-- so as to not make you feel like you need to have it. That should be clear not only with it's focus on maintenance agreements, but also with e-on's generous consideration that if you don't upgrade now, no worries, you can upgrade to 8.0 for the same fee.

I think I'm probably going to go the 7.4 - 8 route myself.  I don't lose much (if anything) doing that and it means I get to let the real big boys iron out the kinks :biggrin:

E-On managed to shoot themselves in their feet egregiously.

Had they waited the eve of SIGGRAPH 09 and announced something more of the current feature list, it would have been a reasonable .5 upgrade; if you add the assurance that people could go from 7 to 8 with one upgrade step, it would have been reasonably good news.

Instead, done has it has been done, it is a blantant reaction to the release of Terragen 2, with just enough features to match it. It gives exactly the fealing that E-On wants to deliver as little as possible to be just above the competition. Add that a firm like E-On looks afraid of a 2-man operation like Planetside... anything to add?

Bye!!!

P.S.: ..then two journalists took Tricky Dick by HIS balls and threw him out of the White House.

Chipp
I don't trust E-On anymore. They are bungling this badly, please go look at forums from here, to DAZ, to CG talk and other places...it's got  a big thumbs down how they have handled this.
As said, it's not always the reality that is important, but how things are seen to be done, like in politics, ya know?
I don''t mean "lies and spin" those are exactly what get folk angry and are most unforgivable.

I may support things, but when they are doing something seriously wrong,  I'll jump on them like anything or anyone else that's messed up.
It is stupid, dishonourable and against the long term surviviability of Vue, for E-On to have done this.

In a time of economic fear and trouble, when other apps give free upgrades...and then to have an upgrade that if you decide ot pay extra for it...you get no re-imbursment of vue8 purchase, AND Vue7 has been only out for 5 months or so and this paid for update comes out, and we've never had "Pay for" updates before...it leaves a very bad taste.

It seems the industry now regards us as peons to rent their product by the year, and then one day, by the month, the week, the day if they so decide. (See how Newtek and Autodesk seem to be shifting their outlooks...)
Corporate greed & stupidity destroyed our economies, the lesson has obviously not been learned in this arena, or that we shouldn't tolerate it at all, anywhere, ever again.

Rome did not fall because of one specific act, but a serious of stupid crap and external events.
I do not want to find Vue dead in the water one day like I had to go through with Bryce, because corporate suits have lost the plot, again....
Go look ou there, folk are pissed about this, they are fed up with bugs, they are fed up with a Byzantine stupid price/product list for Vue.

Vue is a good app, it's designers come up with amazing things, that is not the issue. The issue is that Vue is being badly handled. E-On needs to get it's finger out, and TALK to us customers and treat us as valued customers, not peons.
It's obvious what needs to be done, but corporates often, like politics, back themselves into a corner they refuse to get out of before the walls fall on top of 'em. I've seen it recently in another arena I care about.
Arrogance and failing to listen cost a company a HUGE amount of respect and tolerance from customers, and a lot of money. It was their attitude and how things were done that caused this, not that their product was bad.

Alex,
lol, true, but, off topic, that almost couldn't happen nowadays, look at how gutless and vapid the media have become :(

as an owner of TG2, I don't think it's too much of a threat to Vue at the moment.  The render engine is still painfully slow and there's no ecosystems.

If you think this is bad, what about when XSI put $1000 onto the price of Essentials - now that's a price hike :biggrin: