Hi everyone,

it has been a couple of years since I last used Vue. With the current releases it seems I can only install / use it with an account from e-on and, of course, an internet access.
Isn't there a software which can be used just as it is, like in the good old times, with just a serial number but no stupid activation, digital restriction management and such?

I have no problems paying for my software but there is no way I subdue myself to this kind of surveillance.
(Mayby my old Vue is still working ...)

Thanks,

Ernst

You may want to continue using your older software that doesn't require online validation.

Just for my curiosity, what's the problem in activating software online? It's just a step in the installation process, as easy as the input of a serial number. Did you try e-on's activation process? It's very easy and fast.
 

Quote - Just for my curiosity, what's the problem in activating software online? It's just a step in the installation process, as easy as the input of a serial number. Did you try e-on's activation process? It's very easy and fast.
 

Let's say you go to McDonald's and buy yourself a coke but then the waiter says "Hey, you can't drink that coke just like that. You have to activate it first. But its simple. You just have to enter all of your personal data and hand over to McDonalds the full controll about where, when and how you drink it."
Maybe I am just too old to get used to this.

But there is more: what happens if the activation server is switched off permanently? People who own such software normally can continue using it on the computer where it is installed but once they have to change, their well payed software becomes worthless. This has already happened  in the past and it will become a frequent bother in the future. I bet it is just a matter of time when, for example, Microsoft refuses further activation of XP. Or (smaller) companies may just close down. This closes down all of their software, too, if it runs only after activation.

With Vue its kind of amusing. They give it away for free but you can't use it.
And by the way - the documentation on the e-on site about this topic is really poor. In the end I had to downlod all of the trial version just to get the manual and to find out how it is supposed to work. The feature list is endless (and quite impressive) but information about licensing and activation is really hard to get.
Vue used to be a really great piece of software, but activation is a no-go for me.

You can't compare buying a coke (a few cents) with buying Vue (a few hundred dollars). The analogy is not correct.
Normally, the bigger the investment, the bigger the 'paperwork'. For example, the process to buy a car is more complex than to buy Vue. The process of buying a house is more complex than of buying a car. The process of buying a company is more complex than buying a house. Etc, etc. As the complexity increases, the amount of personal data that you have to provide also increases. That's natural, there's no point in fighting it.

Anyway, the only personal data you have to give to e-on to activate Vue is your name and email address (which you can even give fake ones). I would say that is more than reasonable. E-on will know less about you than, say, Google, who has in archive all your searches of the last 18 months. I think you should get things in perspective... ;-)

Furthermore, e-on's site is only necessary for the initial activation (1 or 2 minutes). You can go offline for the rest of your life and Vue will continue working without any problem (my Vue computer is also normally offline, for performance reasons).

Regarding the apparent inconsistency of giving something for free and then having to register it... that's not an inconsistency, it's also natural. If you use a free software, you are a potential customer for the payed versions. It's only natural that they want to know who you are. It's a very low price to pay for such nice software, I would say.

plus having to give some details deters pirates (freetards) - except the ones who just dont care.

If you think about it, if you had spent thousands of hours creating a piece of software, you will do everything can you ensure that johnny freeloader cant hoik it from the internet for free.   I know I would.

You need to be online only for the first activation and whenever Vue eats one activation (it has happened to me when I was so gullible to follow Infinite setup offer to run the program from within the setup).

If you get Infinite you have two attempts and then you are at the mercy of E-On which (read the EULA) grants you ONLY TWO activation attempts. After the second one they could legaly tell you buy another copy of the program.

Bye.

P.S.: I have read that 3D Coat is even worse because from time to time it "phones home" to check the license. From my activation woes I have learned a lesson: I will never again buy programs which either have a limited number of activation attempts or check on a server.

 What about people like myself who never install paid for software in the internet box but in our offline workstations. This is something I have done for years and while I have had to pass on some softwares offers both free and paid for types, my work station stays squeaky clean and although I do periodicaly run paranoia scans to check for piggy backed problems it has stayed that way. This is one of the main reasons I started using terragen free and saving for the full version when they implemented imported objects as opposed to dreaming e-on Vue dreams. It's even worth putting up with bounding box display instead of wire frame to be able to use it on a box that has never known a connection to the internet...that box doesn't have a modem.. ...

These hesitations and dislikes in using online activated software remind me a lot to the hesitations and dislikes I had myself when the first cell phones appeared.  :-)

You can't fight cell phones and you won't be able to fight online activated software, it's only a matter of time. Your choice is only when you decide to go aboard the ship, not if you will do it. :-)

 Well I shall never ever have a cell phone...there is no one so important they can't leave a freakin message on my answering machine...When I'm away from the phone I am in fact away from the phone...and like wise there is no soiftware so good or important that I need to be online to freakin install it...it's like buying a car and having to get permission from the builders to turn the freakin key...this stuff just plain offends me and I'll personally have no part of it. IMHO actions like this only make crackers more inventive and aggressive about how they steal software, rather than protecting the resource of the maker.. ...

The slippery-slope of control. The software androids accept (as all good software junkies do) the more complex and onerous controls implemented by software companies. They buy the unproven, and in some cases disproven claims of the impact of piracy on the economic well-being of software companies. One day, the uncritical thinkers will wake up and discover that their software is now only theirs by subscription -- with annual fees for continued use.

The number of users will decline as the 95 percentile of major improvements (essential features -- those features which eliminate great artistic effort and post-work for desired results) is approached, and more and more users refuse to pay the increasing cost of incremental (and often esoteric) feature additions. Eventually, the pros are left as the primary driver of revenue for the companies, the rest are left a half-dozen revisions behind.

Put-up with those onerous activation/registration/rental mentality schemes without protest, and this is what you'll have in a few more years with Eon and Vue -- as well as other niche software, with the more generic software to follow. I work in a pretty technical area (nuclear based power) and many of my geek coworkers are tired of all the activation/upgrade nonsense, and are buying less.

probably becuase its not their product/profit on the line...?

 I think it's a matter of respect for the vendor at the root of this problem/situation. I regularilly go online looking for episodes of TV progs I've missed due to playing a gig or recording and often peruse the app sections of these sites. I have reported to e-on seeing all versions of Vue since Ver2 at various of these places[torrent sites] but never Terragen or Imagine3d...the 2 apps I use most...hmmm...user loyalty seems tied to the way you treat your users from this example...treat them like thieves and you'll get stolen from it seems. I could be wrong but it seems to me like you'd have to have bought it to share the working version on these sites...sounds like ticked of customers to me.. ...

I completely fail to see the logic where the input of a serial number is any different, conceptually speaking, from an online activation. Could you please enlighten me?

If your concern is related with the security of the data that you have to provide when you activate it, this is normally minimal (name and email address). Where's the problem in letting know the manufacturers the name of whoever is using their software? Is it a matter of principle?

Furthermore, if you used a credit card to buy a software (or whatever) than it's already recorded somewhere (and therefore available to someone) that you purchased that product. What's the difference between that database record (i.e, person X bought product Y) from the activation record database (i.e, person X activated product Y)? Unless you don't use credit cards also and buy everything in cash! LOL :-)

The issue raised by LCBoliou is a completely different matter: subscriptions instead of (or in addition to) an initial payment. That was not the original topic. With this, I also don't agree because I may want their product only and not their service. As a consumer, I should not be forced to buy a service I don't want. But, again, this is a completely different matter from online activation.

 Well the basic issue is my workstation is not, and never will, be online...nuff said.. ..

well in that case youll have to live with the consequences of refusing to do what the companies want you to do i.e. not use their product.   They can do what they want to feel like their product is secure just as much as you can not put your workstation is online.

As en example to the "they want too many details etc etc conundrum", you probably entered more details when you joined renderosity than when you registered the software, and its more visible to people.

for instance, the chap at the top, just by looking at your bio,

Hi everyone!

Other than my nickname suggests I am actually male. My real name is Ernst, I am ...let's say more than 40 years old, and I am from Munich (Muenchen), Germany. I have been working with Poser for a very long time. If I remeber this correctly, I started with version 3 which I still own ;-)

I know your name, where you live, your rough age etc.

As rutra said,

Furthermore, if you used a credit card to buy a software (or whatever) than it's already recorded somewhere (and therefore available to someone) that you purchased that product. What's the difference between that database record (i.e, person X bought product Y) from the activation record database (i.e, person X activated product Y)? Unless you don't use credit cards also and buy everything in cash! LOL :-)

My Vue computer is also offline. That didn't prevent me from activating the software. I connected it for 2 minutes and that was it. Two minutes online in 3 or 4 years of life in a computer is something reasonable, I would say. That's 0.0001% of the time online... :-) So, Bobbystahr, I find it hard to believe that this is your "basic issue". I'm not provoking you or anything, I would really like to understand and it would be great if you could answer my questions in the previous post. If you don't want to, it's ok too, of course... :-)

Quote -- "what happens if the activation server is switched off permanently? People who own such software normally can continue using it on the computer where it is installed but once they have to change, their well payed software becomes worthless."

This is the classic mistake a lot of users make.   They think they own the software they buy, when they are actually only issued a user license.  Reading the EULA before clicking "Next" explains what your bought software license grants you.

Quote -
I have no problems paying for my software but there is no way I subdue myself to this kind of surveillance.
(Mayby my old Vue is still working ...)

Thanks,

Ernst

I don't have any worries about surveillance by software companies; I just restrict access via my firewall.

But I'm really annoyed with the sale of content from within Vue and all those dummy files I got when I installed Vue. I painstakingly deleted them all.

My biggest concern is, not being able to use the software, if for instance e-on were to go broke or something and I'm left with software I can't activate. This would literally cost me thousands of dollars, if I include copy protected content.

The actual question is whether or not e-on has a patch for that eventuality. Remember the fiasco with P5 and the Really Bad Activation scheme they used? Curious Labs went tango-uniform, and they had a patch that bypassed the activation nonsense, so that those who had bought their P5's could use it, reinstall it, etc. If they have such a thing in case the worst happens, then its all cool. If not.....what recourse would we have? 

You don't need to delete them, just click on the little ghost icon on the object browser and all the dummy files become completely invisible.

Quote -
This is the classic mistake a lot of users make.   They think they own the software they buy, when they are actually only issued a user license.  Reading the EULA before clicking "Next" explains what your bought software license grants you.

With network activation schemes or worse program phoning home you are at the mercy of the developer servers being available. If the company shuts down, you cannot keep using your program in case of troubles or hardware upgrades/new computers because you cannot activate it anymore. The user licenses have no clause "as long as we are in business, then you are screwed" clause, so you are entitled to keep using the program as long as YOU want, not as long as the servers are available.

Now, the phoning home scheme is just a sneaky way of enforcing a software renting arrangement, in which you pay a rent (monthly/yearly/whatever) to use the program. Maintenance programs are a step in that direction, putting in place half of the equation (you pay for updates but have free usage).

Recently I read about users of DRM protected music having their collections wiped out by the closing down of their security providers.

Needless to say that this way of conducting business is totally demented (and I am not thinking only of E-On). Things can even get worse, like in the case of 3D Coat, where users are potentially hostage of god instant messages to the developer

Bye... and now start insulting me for having written a non E-On praising post.

Actually 3D Coat lost me as a new customer -- literally, due to their really obnoxious protection scheme. The software companies have every right to impose any protection scheme, and as long as I have the right to refuse purchase, my argument is part of that democratic marketplace - not one of principle.

About 3 - 4 years from now (with present usage/activation trends), about half the present Vue users on this forum will probably no longer be involved with the leading-edge versions of this software, and they will mostly be using earlier versions. My earlier point was: the more controlled activation process is likely a prelude to subscription software. One may not own the software code, but one does own the use of that code.

I would certainly hate to see the same attitude of software protection applied to, let's say, the automotive industry; "...well sir, you need to buy 2 versions of this car if transporting more than one person at a time." Or, "...our warranty lasts until you start the car -- and by the way, we have several known bugs that will keep you in a state of random frustration, but we will try and fix those bugs -- or at least make sure those bugs are fixed for the next model year"...not forgetting the "warranty period" -- of course!

Eon hasn't really been that bad, but I am concerned about the future of this pretty fine, and unique software.

Questioning attitude is a virtue, and the smallest and greatest bad events in human history could have been mostly mitigated if independent, critical thinking was one of humanities most widespread attributes.

The EULA is terminated at any time by either party for any reason.

In a pefect world though, E-On would supply one last patch before going under that disables phoning home for any future installs and the Vue software would be a download freebie from the current Vue owner's site.

Good morning everyone!

Here in Munich (Germany) its now Tuesday morning and over night this discussion evolved much more interesting than I thought.

Quote -
You can't fight cell phones and you won't be able to fight online activated software, it's only a matter of time. Your choice is only when you decide to go aboard the ship, not if you will do it. :-)

Well, that's not sure.

There are two possibilities:

1. Software activation is a fad, a temporary fashion. Like "they do it so let's do it, too, because the zeitgeist says it must be a great idea". After a while they realise the idea was not so good after all and stop doing it. Like it happened with Poser 5, or with music on CD. I don't know the situation in the US but at least here in Germany they used to put so much copy protection stuff on their CDs that they vrtually became unusable. The sales declined dramatically, so they stopped it and now CDs are "clean" again.
   Its the same with Vue: e-on has lost me (and probably many more poeple) as a customer for new products. But if its a matter of the zeitgeist than nothing you say and nothing that happens can change their minds. But it will happen eventually of its own volition because the zeitgeist changes from time to time. So we just have to wait a bit.

2. Software activation is a matter of business, of cash and calculations.
   In this case the question for the software company is, whether the costs or the benefits are higher.
   The costs: you lose some customers.
   The benefit: you lose some thieves, too.
   There have been endless debates about how much software thieves harm software porducers. Some say they the benefit might be even higher than the harm, but in the end its a matter each company has to decide for itself.
   DAZ3D sells it's content plain without activation and even without serial numbers. You can freely export and modify their stuff. Its really a pleasure using it and I have bought a lot.
   With e-on its the contrary and besides from older versions of Vue I never purchased any content from them.

And there is also the freeware and open source realm, beginning with all the free stuff here on Renderosity. Let's see how things turn out in the future.

alexcoppo, you raised an interesting point there but your point has an almost exact analogy in something as prosaic as an electrical appliance or a car, for example. If you buy, say, a washing machine, it can happen that its manufacturer goes bankrupt and shuts down or, less radically, stops doing that specific piece of equipment. With both events, you may run out of spare parts and if you need to repair it, even if a minor repair, you may discover that you can no longer do it and your expensive equipment is now a piece of useless trash. 

Is this really a decision argument when you go buy an electrical appliance? Do you seriously think, before buying "hmmm, let's see, what's more likely to shutdown, Samsung or Sony?".

If the manufacturer shuts down (whether one of an electrical appliance or software), you just turn to their competitors. In case of Vue, you can turn to Carrara, for example (have you seen some of the latest landscapes in the Carrara gallery? they're gorgeous). Vue has some unique points but, let's face it, there are lots of people doing landscape images in CG without Vue. I've seen some great work with 3DS Max, for example.

kyraia and LCBoliou, you also have some good points and, of course, the industry will avoid the extremes because these bring problems. That's always the same, whatever the business. Extreme strategies are not good and the market will decide which are reasonable and which are not. People may complain about it in forums but in the end it will be the power of money that will make the manufacturers decide...

In my opinion, the current strategy of e-on is not an extreme one, far from it, and I can't understand the position of kyraia and bobbystahr when you say that you don't buy Vue because you have to activate it online. It's something I just can't understand.

having just got lightwave and had to try to activate that, I can confirm that vue is not extreme at all..

Hardware locks  + online registration + activation = somewhat more complicated than vues single step registration.

Quote - having just got lightwave and had to try to activate that, I can confirm that vue is not extreme at all..

Hardware locks  + online registration + activation = somewhat more complicated than vues single step registration.

A couple of years ago I saw an almost interesting offer for Lightwave. I investigated it and, as soon as I saw the dreaded d-word (dongle), I uttered the f-word, erased Lightwave from my mental checklist and never looked back (when was last time anybody read me praising Lightwave?).

Bye!!!

P.S.: should I have a look at Carrara? the most recent render by HowieFarkes does look like a Vue one? thanks a lot, doing that

HowieFarkes' work with Carrara is really amazing, not only the latest image but lots of them. I wonder how much of that 'splendour' is due to Carrara itself and how much is due to the fact that he's really good at it. I wonder because I don't see many other Carrara renders at the same level, and most are not even close. On the other hand, maybe the user base is still too small to have a fair impression.

I also don't like dongles. That's where I draw the line, no dongles for me. I had a fair amount of troubles with dongles at work (stolen, damaged, etc) and I think that's just too abusive that I'm in the hands of a fragile stupid piece of hardware to have my user license.

it also steals a usb port...

Quote - alexcoppo, you raised an interesting point there but your point has an almost exact analogy in something as prosaic as an electrical appliance or a car, for example. If you buy, say, a washing machine, it can happen that its manufacturer goes bankrupt and shuts down or, less radically, stops doing that specific piece of equipment. With both events, you may run out of spare parts and if you need to repair it, even if a minor repair, you may discover that you can no longer do it and your expensive equipment is now a piece of useless trash. 

Is this really a decision argument when you go buy an electrical appliance? Do you seriously think, before buying "hmmm, let's see, what's more likely to shutdown, Samsung or Sony?".

If the manufacturer shuts down (whether one of an electrical appliance or software), you just turn to their competitors. In case of Vue, you can turn to Carrara, for example (have you seen some of the latest landscapes in the Carrara gallery? they're gorgeous). Vue has some unique points but, let's face it, there are lots of people doing landscape images in CG without Vue. I've seen some great work with 3DS Max, for example.

kyraia and LCBoliou, you also have some good points and, of course, the industry will avoid the extremes because these bring problems. That's always the same, whatever the business. Extreme strategies are not good and the market will decide which are reasonable and which are not. People may complain about it in forums but in the end it will be the power of money that will make the manufacturers decide...

In my opinion, the current strategy of e-on is not an extreme one, far from it, and I can't understand the position of kyraia and bobbystahr when you say that you don't buy Vue because you have to activate it online. It's something I just can't understand.

I wouldn't be happy if I couldn't use Vue.    It is MY choice of software.

I bought Cararra years ago from DAZ, installed it, tried it, hated it. Never used it since. 

I still have my older Vue disks going back to 4.  I think up to 4 Pro it wouldn't require an activation but I just couldn't imagine trying to work in 4 pro now

I'm against the whole damn lot of it.
If I buy it LET ME USE IT IN PEACE!! Grrr!

sorry, I despise corporations with a passion as I consider them the "Big Evil" of this century, banking crisis should have shown us this, and the lunacy of EULAs, copy protection etc are all part of it.
All their carry on doesn't stop pirates one whit.

A much better system is to encourage honesty and reward it.
The BBC has realized it's constant threats and warnings about dodging the licence fee here in the UK, was counter productive, it put folks' back sup, which cost it more in the long run.
So instead they now put on encouraging adverts showing you easier ways to pay etc.

Therefor, what artists who make Vue and other content are better doing, is putting notes like this in their products (very effective in Vue and Bryce's content library's which have notes)
"This was made by Joe, I hope you enjoy using this, please remember, this puts bread on my table, don't steal from me please!"
It won't stop a lot of the idiot or commercial pirates but it might disuade some, it may make some buy your stuff in shame, that's about all you can ask for in this life.

Better that than the way copyright has become a serious damn threat to civil liberties, because:

a) Corporations are immortal, think about the threat Disney for example poses, holding copyrights forever. That is actually a threat to nations' security in the end, oh not for "Snow White" lol, but blackmail of holding vital tech patents etc. Corporations want copyrights and patents extended...and extended...
b) Civil court requires far less evidence to convict you than criminal court.
c) Corporations have enough money to warp law maker's better judgement
d) Look at how corporations have tried to copyright human GENES for pity's sake, what does that tell you about the ammorality of many such entities? Pharma corps are notorious for their foul deeds.

I've bought an awful lot of software, as art and Dungeons & Dragons are about all I've got left in life, so hey, why not! :thumbupboth:
I'm comparatively  not well off at all (I'm better off in past 2 years than I have EVER been, actually, lol, and I had to get even sicker to get that),
no holidays, no car, no job, no SO, no kids and I dine on simple fair. That's life. So almost literally every spare penny I have goes into art or books .
I do nto call myself "poor" except by refference to some, as I know what real poverty is like.

The RIAA and others whine about thieves..yet one example shows the reality:
a top selling singer and her band  earned a record company $4 million, she got paid in the end, $40,000.
pray tell me, who are the real thieves?

E-On is making a dreadful mistake in pushing towards studios for Vue. Why?
There's maybe what, 10,000 arts studios in the world?
There are iirc 200 MILLION broadband users at least now, all potential buyers of Vue and other apps.
It's a company's fault if it fails to get users.

See DAZ3D and why their way is better and more successful. He who has the most users, is king, NOT he who has the fewest users whom he screws the most ;)

We really need to grow the hell up as a species, this is the 21st century, 19th century short-sighted Capitalist ideas should have died a death because they've been a bloody disaster. (Adam Smith warned about the dangers inherent in this, actually, folk forget this, Capitalism, like any system, requires wisdom to work correctly....all systems made by Man have shown themselves to fall victim to Human fraility. I have no answer for this or any system that coudl work, all I can say is that folk need to stop bloody thinking with thier  reptile brain, and use wisdom a lot more than short sighted self interest. Long term, sustainable, survivable profit is where it's at.)

We're not allowed ot talk about such stuff because of the corporate thought-police, lol seriously, where do you see such stuff debated in an adult, calm manner? Isn't that proof there's a seriosu danger ot civil liberties? 
Rarely in the media because they are either too chicken or part of the problem.
See drugs, crime and terrorism as areas where the blinkered bull crap has made things worse, NOT better.

This doens't mean I support terrorism, robbery, drug abuse or other such crap, no, as a matter of fact. I've got a lot of very unpleasant experience with such things (not as a do-er, but the do-ee or such). But I'm not going to freak out over these horrible things, either.
It means I realize we need to stop acting like headless chickens, following whoever promises ot *"PUNISH THE SINNER! WAR WITHOUT END! I AM STRONG, HEED ME! FEAR ME!"
*ya know? Sigh. They keep leading us in ever decreasing circles.
Terrorism and drug abuse are absolutely atrocious things, but deaths by road accidents, smoking and alcohol vastly out weigh them, but you don't see anyhting like the bruhaha over them!! Hypocrits!!!

9/11 = 3000 deaths.
Drugs = 14,000
Homicides: 20,000
Road accidents = 40,000
Alcohol = 81,000
Smoking = 400,000
Any honest, sane person should accept from that, that the Department of Homeland Security should be goign ape on booze, cigarettes and cars!!!

We're starting to see folk at the top quietly admitting the War on Drugs and War on Terror have indeed been disasters , have indeed made bad situtations much much worse than they should have been.
So why in the bloody hell are we now wanting a "War on Piracy" and "Piracy Czars" when that idiocy has already been proven to make matters worse, hm?

To show the madness, the UK Prime Minster noted that 17 MILLION Uk citizens had illegally downloaded stuff, yet still stridently called for more work against them.
Oh wow, bloody brilliant that is, sunshine, make criminals of one THIRD of our population, so where we buidling the gulags and concentration camps then for that many?  lol
barking bloody mad!

Real pirates KILL people, fyi. Big bloody difference between that and unauthorized copying, which is what we're talking about. Blurring that boundary is obscene.

REAL theft is about taking a real object, real lobjects cannot be copied indefintely, it's a hell of a different thing for some scumbag to break into yer home and rob you, or someone take a pciture of your artwork and distribute it.
Commercial piracy needs stamped on, yes, that's usually involved with organized crime, which is a serious threat.
But P2P is not Satan Incarnate!!
It's potentially the greatest advertizing tool in history, hint: viral videos, why do they work so well? ;)
Also, it iwll have to become the depository for our knowledge and art, because of the sheer volume of it all it's impossible for any one group to keep it and it's immoral as hell for them to do so.
We just need to figure out better ways of ensuring artists get money from their work, and are always acredited as the creators.
I'd suggest a system like the UK uses for venues playing music, a licence fee that's paid then to the artists from a non-profit organization.

Sorry, I just don't have time for Human bull crap anymore. Nor does our world.

Apologies for the rant, and I'll understand if the mods delete this, no hard feelings, but trust they too see what I'm warning about :)
I'm an artist, I support art, I've had a very "Interesting" life, so I'm not talking completely out of my backside :p

So how many Carrara artists have done landscape galleries?  Vue and even Bryce have lots.

Quote - having just got lightwave and had to try to activate that, I can confirm that vue is not extreme at all..

Hardware locks  + online registration + activation = somewhat more complicated than vues single step registration.

Couldn't agree with you more. While I have Lightwave, I don't use it because of the hardware lock. Think about it, you lose the lock, you lose the software investment. The president of Lightwave used to be the president of Electric Image. He told me then if I lost a hardware dongle, they would only consider replacing it if I showed them a police report along with an insurance claim. Even so, the process would take weeks. I ended up having to purchase a second copy of EI (over $4K!) as a backup, as my business required I not be without a working copy for any extended period of time. Talk about un-user friendly!

That, my Vue friends, is oppressive. E-on regularly resets my activation licenses without any questions and typically within 24 hours. Choosing one over the other is a no-brainer.

Dongles are a pain, however my love for lightwave is greater than my hate of dongles :P

I run vue on 2 computers, have re-installed windows a number of times, and have never had any problems with this activation business.   As I understand, the registration attempt business is only to get your installation number, which you keep in your e-on account.

Back to online activations, even if you put the computer on the internet for a short while anyway, the chap who said he didnt go on the internet, but did paranoia sweeps anyway, surely that defeats the argument for not putting it on the internet, why not just put it on the net briefly then do a sweep afterwards? - Not saying you have to, just strikes me as odd.

Paranoia sweeps?

I thought a Cisco, Netgear, or LinkSys firewall would put a mind at ease.

Quote -  , my work station stays squeaky clean and although I do periodicaly run paranoia scans to check for piggy backed problems it has stayed that way. [...quote]

Quote - Paranoia sweeps?

I thought a Cisco, Netgear, or LinkSys firewall would put a mind at ease.

Do you know why the world is full of paranoids? because people who trust other people die young.

Bye!!!

P.S.: a lesson learned in the year I had the most obscene task of administering a network of PCs: when you put on trousers, do not trust the buttons, add a belt; then, do not trust the belt and add the suspenders and, when you go out, do not trust buttons, belts and the suspenders and use a hand to make sure the trousers stay up and even then, be prepared to the moment they will fall down.

P.P..S.: a signature I once read: The fact that YOU are a paranoid doesn't mean that THEY are not out to get YOU...

Quote - I had the most obscene task of administering a network of PCs.

It depends on what sites the users keep visiting to download more harm to their computers.  Just make their drives read only.

I wonder how much the people @ EON monitor these posts, if I was them I would be really worried. I worked as tech support engineer and had to perform like a clown at the circus. The boss would never be happy until the whole audience was laughing. So far the pitiful response from them has been deplorable. I stopped at VUE 6 which is a shame because what I see from VUE 7 is quite amazing.

Quote - "I stopped at VUE 6 which is a shame because what I see from VUE 7 is quite amazing."

Why did you stop?

Simple the Price, I have spent way to much money on upgrades so far, the house needs painting, teeth need repair that upgrade price is so unfair

Quote - , the house needs painting, teeth need repair that upgrade price is so unfair

Im not sure it it was intented but I could only read this in song format...