Have a look at this. It seems as if the hair has gotten WAY better:

[http://www.seventhstreetstudio.com/simplecg/299/blue-eyes-2

](http://www.seventhstreetstudio.com/simplecg/299/blue-eyes-2)

>> "the base mesh has to be fairly neutral (Like V4)."

I would call V4 anything but "neutral". The Showgirl was always intended to be a Hot Babe (TM). As I was told, frequently, that was a key selling point, and the DAZ marketing cookie-cutter renders of the Glamorous This and the Hot-n-Sexy That certainly confirms my position.

But I agree with your point: the best characters are blank canvases, like Posette. Problem, is, most users dont want a blank canvas. They want "pretty" right out of the gate. Starting with a blank canvas and having to work to make the model look good just impered on their "oo! look! pretty!" time.

 
They should sell two the same but one with pretty already built in and one a blank canvas.

Quote -  Have a look at this. It seems as if the hair has gotten WAY better:

http://www.seventhstreetstudio.com/simplecg/299/blue-eyes-2

i dont think this is the poser hair

Quote - > Quote -  Have a look at this. It seems as if the hair has gotten WAY better:

http://www.seventhstreetstudio.com/simplecg/299/blue-eyes-2

i dont think this is the poser hair

On second thought, I don't think that is Alyson. I think it's either JessiG2, Sydney or Jessi P6. The comment  below the render does mention Poser, but refers to an article at the eFrontier website, not SmithMicro.

Still a damn good render though.

Quote - I only started 3D a couple of weeks ago with Poser 7, so I'm not qualified to comment on P8 just in case I post rubbish. But the minor annoyances I have with P7 is all that wasted space to the left of the Trackball & Light Control etc. Moving them further left would allow us to make the Preview/Render screen bigger without it covering up the controls. Also I find the library and parameters/properties pallettes too big and clunky, streamlining them (or making it possible for us to resize them) would make it possible for us to maximize our monitor space.

I just know someone is going to tell me all this is already possible in P7. ;)

You said! Poser 7 is fully customizable, every part of the interface is movable, windows and pallettes are adjustable in size and position.
You can save more interface in that nine little dots (UI) and use them for specific works.

Quote - > Quote - If we like the figure or not, if we will use it or not, fact is we're paying for it. SM had to pay someone to create them. That means they've sacrifised a feature/improvement or two for it.

I'd rather have a new poser with more improvements instead of paying for figures and content I'll never use.

"SM had to pay somone to create them." does not equal "they've sacrifised (sp) a feature/improvement or two for it."

I could be wrong, but I doubt they are building Poser 8 for you.  They are building for the folks that don't have Poser 4,5,6, & 7.

As a new user, if there had been no content in my copy of Poser 5, there would have been no point in me purchasing.  I may not have used very much of it, but it was a start to my content collection

I seriously doubt that.... very seriously. If they're building Poser 8 for new users they may as well stop doing so. Why, as a new user would I want to spent $250 or so for something I initially can get for free and only buy the additions I really need? I do believe that they still depend on at least 75% of sales coming from their user base. If they want to entice new users they have to consider a whole new approach.

Like every other software out there, P8 is going to have to balance between old users and new ones: the old users will be looking for new features, the new ones will want to see a relatively easy learning curve as well as usable content they can implement right out of the box. The new figure looks like a good improvement. I'm curious to know what her male counterpart will be like, because it seemed the men in P6 and P7 were always a bit better designed than the women. It's a pity Smith Micro couldnt show both in their glossy ad, but I guess we have to, as usual, pander to the fan boys who cant get a date. :)

Quote - BB not working on materials and lights?

thats like the worst poser news ................

He's always working on them, and you don't need Poser 8 to use them. :thumbupboth:

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

I seriously doubt that.... very seriously. If they're building Poser 8 for new users they may as well stop doing so. Why, as a new user would I want to spent $250 or so for something I initially can get for free and only buy the additions I really need? I do believe that they still depend on at least 75% of sales coming from their user base. If they want to entice new users they have to consider a whole new approach.

When I started out, I used DS for a month, and then bought Poser 7.  Even with DS Advanced and the add-ons (which even at the current discounted prices still cost far more than I paid for Poser 7)  there are things that Poser does better, and it's a still a lot cheaper than Lightwave or Maya.

I Hope someday Poser will have fully loaded characters be
it Poser 8 or Poser 108 down the line. It would be nice to
see as human as can be characters with all the working
parts like the ones at the R-rotica store!

Quote - I Hope someday Poser will have fully loaded characters be
it Poser 8 or Poser 108 down the line. It would be nice to
see as human as can be characters with all the working
parts like the ones at the R-rotica store!

I doubt whether you'll ever see that much detail coming from either Poser or DAZ.. As you can read, many Poser users apparently don't care that much about the Poser characters enough to ask for better designed ones. DAZ just simply refuses to make them more detailed.

I guess your right but one can hope. When I bought P6
I had to buy a three inch thick book to figure out how to
use it. Didn't buy P7. Gonna wait to see what P8 has to
offer. May need a four inch thick book for this one!

Well until I see a features list I will remain optimistically excited and as far as content  pffffff it truly doesn't concern me. I more interested in performance, no memory leaks and it being a fully 64-bit program. You can wrap P8 in all the pretty paper you want until there are major improvements on performance instead of just adding onto ancient poser code and programing nothing that comes with the program will matter.

Maybe it's like Star Trek,....  even numbers are the good ones.

 :)
 

Oh please god, dont let the Mac version require 10.5!!!

Well my hopes are going into thr render engine , Vue and Carrara are running fine ... so how about an improvement here in Poser 8 ?

Since P7 I like Poser figures more than DAZ figures.Allison looks quite good to me.I am still hoping on rigging improvements, usefull features and a reasonable pricing.

Quote - Bear in mind that as a subscriber copy it comes a week (sometimes more) earlier than when the issue hits shops. Maybe the link is meant to go live when the issue hits the shops.

I can't let this go, even though the SM guys told me to let it go. (In our weekly P8 status phone call. This thread was discussed, just so you know. Hehehe)

The magazine jumped the gun. They told SM no copies would go out before July 1, not even to subscribers.

The Poser guys are not idiots, just so you know.

Quote - > Quote - Bear in mind that as a subscriber copy it comes a week (sometimes more) earlier than when the issue hits shops. Maybe the link is meant to go live when the issue hits the shops.

I can't let this go, even though the SM guys told me to let it go. (In our weekly P8 status phone call. This thread was discussed, just so you know. Hehehe)

The magazine jumped the gun. They told SM no copies would go out before July 1, not even to subscribers.

The Poser guys are not idiots, just so you know.

Sir please let them know , we would like to see an improvment on the Render Engine . Its more then on Time to do a better engine there .
I do love Poser ... looking forward to Poser 8 !

Quote - The magazine jumped the gun. They told SM no copies would go out before July 1, not even to subscribers.

At least they managed to get one up on Amazon.

to BB...
so who are the "Poser guys " now ?
they used to come here nad chat, but not since eFrontiers days ... I guess they started dropping off during Curious times, actually.

As about Poser Pro - SM said (and even stressed the fact that) it would be a completely independent line of licenses, so unless they change their mind, P8 is not P8 Pro, which will be a different app (now obviously the question is, what will P8 Pro have that P8 hasn't, but I guess we're not there yet).

As about the interface change, while I got used to it, I do not worry if it's bagginsbill who worked on the new one, for a very simple reason: He's a Poser user.
He does know Poser users' needs and wishes...

Well, mixed feelings here. Hoping for the best (lots of new features, global illumination, state-of-the-art render times, well, everything DAZ Studio already has...), yet fearing the big disappointment (some minor goodies thrown in just to call it a new version). You need nerves of steel when you're a Poser user...   :-D

Quote - they used to come here nad chat, but not since eFrontiers days ... I guess they started dropping off during Curious times, actually.

I guess that if one of them made the error to show up, he would be instantly buried under flames, bug reports, requests and stuff... :-D

I can understand they only lurk...
I only hope/wish they eventually will be able to come back to the forums to harvest well-deserved praise.

 Hehehehehehehehehehehee.......

I can't wait to see how things are going to be in P8......simply because so much of the fear/grousing/problems can trace back ultimately to the interface design. BB may not be actually -designing- the shaders.....but if the rumor of him working on the UI design is accurate (wink,wink,nudge.nudge), then he has his fingers on the part of the app that allows the user to =apply= those mathematical shaders. Which can always use improvement. Same goes for the library pallettes, the animation tools (multiple graph editor windows, he hopes he hopes), both cloth and hair rooms, rigging tools (this might answer the question of whether the actual rigging tools are imprecise, or if it was the GUI that lacked the needed resolution for the data set),etc.

And if someone, we care not who, can just solve all the issues of Poser import into Vue.......

Quote - It has to do with me being an expert at user interface construction.

...please tell me this means that you (or whoever codes it) will get to drive a garlic-coated stake into Kai Krause's evil, rotten heart once and for all. Please? 

(I've seen what Bryce's UI code looks like, and it still gives me the shivers when I think about it).

Quote -  

And if someone, we care not who, can just solve all the issues of Poser import into Vue.......

That sounds like a problem that needs to be addressed to Vue. Poser can't tell another app how to import it.

Quote - > Quote - they used to come here nad chat, but not since eFrontiers days ... I guess they started dropping off during Curious times, actually.

I guess that if one of them made the error to show up, he would be instantly buried under flames, bug reports, requests and stuff... :-D

Actually, a couple of them came on to snipe, flame, and generate all shades of anger all by themselves. It was pretty good entertainment.

Quote - "The magazine jumped the gun. They told SM no copies would go out before July 1, not even to subscribers."

I guess Future really did fubar then, I got 3DWorld today and that's got an ad for Poser 8 too.

I am surprised (although I shouldn't be) to hear people ready to pre-order the thing before even seeing a feature list.

I know its fun to imagine what's coming. But some of the speculation of what I'm doing is kind of wild. WILD, I tell you!

OK. Really, I like teasing but I'm not allowed to say too much. I just want to put some boundaries on some speculations.

First of all, I am not "designing" the user experience at all. They needed somebody who could implement something fast that was not trivial or straightforward. I was given a specification from the UI design team and I followed it, with very little creativity on my part. And I'm only working on implementing one UI component. I have nothing whatsoever to do with most of the other components, such as the animation controls, the properties/parameters palette, the camera controls, etc. I've given hints already about what "the masses" wanted most, what their biggest problem is by far, and you should be able to figure out which part it is. It is the part that everybody uses, whether they animate or not, whether they make content or just download content, whether they are into realism or toon. There's one piece nobody can avoid. That's the part I'm working on - what every single one of you will be using. Don't think that doesn't give me pause.

Second, a lot of respect was given to the commitment users have made to learning this interface, for good or ill. Completely totally changing it is not in the works. However, I can assure you that something about it has changed drastically, and although it may seem trivial to some, it is exceedingly important. In fact, the true importance of it will not be obvious to anyone on the first day they fire up P8. The real importance will be seen over time, in the weeks and months following the product's release.

Quote - Actually, a couple of them came on to snipe, flame, and generate all shades of anger all by themselves. It was pretty good entertainment.

Really? Heck, I missed all the good fun. Is there anything left, any nice ruins to visit?

So then BB, the interface is the same as it's always been?  Not for me.  Thanks.  I won't bother then....

Have fun!

Quote - I am not...
I was given a specification from the UI design team and I followed it...
I'm only working...

LOL - Okay, okay, we won't blame you, don't worry...

Quote - something about it has changed drastically, and although it may seem trivial to some, it is exceedingly important. In fact, the true importance of it will not be obvious to anyone on the first day they fire up P8

Lemme guess - the splash screen???...

:-p

Nah, there are no winners in this "I want to tell you you but I can't" game. Expectations run high, and are bound to run higher, as people have accumulated months and years of frustration about certain aspects. IMHO better let them (us) wait a month then yank our chain.

The fact you tell us it was made in a hurry isn't really reassuring, too. I really think people in the secret should keep silent lest there are suicides...

"However, I can assure you that something about it has changed drastically, and although it may seem trivial to some, it is exceedingly important. In fact, the true importance of it will not be obvious to anyone on the first day they fire up P8. The real importance will be seen over time, in the weeks and months following the product's release."
Can this mean a complete overhaul or replacement of the render engine??? or the material room????
hmmmmm
cant wait to see what that is....

Theyre dropping Content Paradise as a tab? :)

Poser 6 and 7 were the same. This is not the same. You will recognize pieces and love or hate them as you wish, but when you look at the whole thing, it will instantly be obvious that something is drastically different.

Beyond that, the difference is not so much what is but what can be. And I'm only discussing the user interface here. There are some other very big differences in the program.

Quote - The fact you tell us it was made in a hurry isn't really reassuring, too. I really think people in the secret should keep silent lest there are suicides...

LOL Every word gets twisted. I didn't say something was done in a hurry. I said it needed to be done fast, faster than a normal human can do. They wanted something very new and different, and did not want to compromise on features just because of a business-driven time constraint. That means getting it done faster than normal, so as not to give up the option to do the right thing.

I can code more in a day than most engineers can do in a week or two.

BagginsBill if I were you I'd leave off any talk of Poser 8 however circumspect, you can't say anything due to your NDA anyway.  Leave the marketing to the marketing people ;)

Do you suppose that Alyson, Sydney, Simon, James and Jessi are all related, maybe siblings or cousins ? .... they have that family resemblance about them.

pj

LOL. Let me ask you this. Why are you certain that my leakage is NOT part of the "marketing people's" strategy?

Quote - LOL Every word gets twisted.

Of course. That's the side effect of not being able to say things as they are...
If you don't say enough, everyone is able to project his own wishes/fears into it.

Sure. It's all good.

I'm having fun teasing.

You (collectively) are having fun speculating.

And Steve Cooper is having fun reading this thread. He told me so today.

Quote - Why are you certain that my leakage is NOT part of the "marketing people's" strategy?

bagginsbill, your leakage should be a private matter between you and your doctor cheeky grin :)

Quote - LOL. Let me ask you this. Why are you certain that my leakage is NOT part of the "marketing people's" strategy?

Let's just say (for I respect you personally, as a Poser wizard who has taught me much) that it would be credible, given the lack of social skills Poser creators have displayed till now...  :-p

Marketing strategy for Poser has to be inspired by crowd control, defense against pitchforks, and other jolly sports like that. If I were Poser's marketing boss, I would train walking on raw eggs for a while before daring taking any public decision. Poser users don't love Poser creators; They just stick with them because they hope the next one will be the right one. But they get tired of paying $125 to see, time after time.

(Personal note to said Poser creators: Make DAZ Studio 3 look like MS Paintbrush, and you might gain our respect. Else, just keep a low profile and certainly don't try to show off.)

As much as I love Poser, $125 is the price of a toy and you get what you pay for. You want blazing fast high quality renders? Buy Maya at $4999.  Or even Vue at $895.

Frankly, this is quite a new experience for me working on something this inexpensive. For the last 10 years, every application I've worked on had a minimum price tag of $50,000. Most of the things I've worked on are $250,000 to $1,500,000. Considering that this community whines and complains about 500 times more than my million dollar customers - well that's pretty damn amusing.

Quote - pj

LOL. Let me ask you this. Why are you certain that my leakage is NOT part of the "marketing people's" strategy?

That would be so wonderfully sneaky; I love it.

Okay, when do we get to see something of Allison's male counterpart? C'mon, dont wimp out on that!

Quote - Sure. It's all good.

I'm having fun teasing.

You (collectively) are having fun speculating.

And Steve Cooper is having fun reading this thread. He told me so today.

Well, tell Steve Cooper I said hi. He never calls. He never writes. I dont think he loves me any more. :)

Quote - $125 is the price of a toy and you get what you pay for.

True, but then again, if I buy DAZ Studio 3 (full license) I'll pay only $52.49. So the Poser 8 upgrade (assuming it still costs around $125) is over twice the price - will I get over twice the features for this?

That's why I said what I said about Poser marketing. Poser is late. Much like in the tortoise/hare fable, they have missed the train.
Each sensible user would rather get DAZ Studio, except a handful old dinosaurs who have got too much used to Poser that they are incapable of changing their habits; And that's not a market share.

Then, Poser can't be compared to Maya. Not by any stretch of imagination. Try modeling a simple object in Poser...
Last, corporate entities don't care about money. I know. You really don't mind spending 50 k for a project which will earn you 50 millions, so you can't really compare. The day a Poser render earns me $50 millions I won't mind buying the whole Poser team and sending them for a month's vacation to some tropical paradise. (You can quote me on that)

Quote - pj
LOL. Let me ask you this. Why are you certain that my leakage is NOT part of the "marketing people's" strategy?

You don't really want me to answer that.