Quote - Dale B,

Another reason I like working with Vue is that is has the ability to specifically control lighting influence for each light. You want just someone's face lit, and no other characters, you can add a point light, and set it's influence just for that character's face. With Poser, I must use multiple renders and compositing in post to get this level of precision. I will not ask Bagginsbill to breach confidentiality by commenting on this feature. But I will simply state that I will be examining P8's documentation carefully to see if this feature is enabled in the new program. If not, I confess I will be disappointed. No demands for a pony. No tantrums. Probably will still get 8 (I have 7 Pro now) but will simply know that Poser will still have to be used more as part of a compositing system, rather than a standalone program - which is what Vue is for me now.

I disagree, you can make a light in poser just point at a characters face and ther is amazing control over lights in poser, use point at and set depth on the light and the lights also have the whole material room for its usage, way more than Vue and yes I have both Vue and poser. And trying to pose characters in vue is a nusance these two programs were made to work together as a natureal part of work flow,

Quote - > Quote -

I think it's harder for a Poser user to migrate to D|S way of doing things, BECAUSE we are so used to it's interface, not because the interface is so great....LOL. Because it's not.

Laurie

I totally agree with you. While there has been the odd occasion when I have wished that Poser's way of inputting and positioning lights objects etc was the same as other programs (mainly for matching for compositing etc), I've always found it fairly easy to use. DS on the other hand, I've tried to get along with it, but my mind must be locked into the way that Poser works. I've said that the first version of Poser I had was version 3, but thinking back I'm sure I had a copy of Poser 1 or 2 that came free on a magazine disk. I wasn't really into 3d art back then, and from what I can remember the figures were almost like a "stuffed cushion toys" or "Thumb-Thumbs (1) with faces". Not that human looking at all. It took quite a while to get used to the interface then, but I must have. Now I find it quite intuative.

(1) Watch "Spy Kids"

I agree, and I started in Studio like.5 or something quite a while back, when I first got poser 6 I was irritated at first then as I leared, I find that I just cannot function in studio at all now, the interface is a confusing jumble for me.

@ BB thanks for the V4 renders! I am looking forward to p8!

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the D/S base the only thing that is free? It was my understanding that one needed to purchase many other modules to get the quality of the many of the renders I see in the promos.

My hopes, since we are past the wishing stage, is that P8 is a total 64-bit app as many others here also hope for. That was one of the selling points for me with PoserPro and its 64-bit firefly.
My second hope is being a major Vue Infinite user is that poser figures and scenes will continue to be exported with ease into Vue as in past poser versions. One thing that has been so nice about poser and Vue is the happy marriage of Poser content exported into vue.

I guess I too am one of those dinos with very lean external Runtime folders. If it's something I haven't used in months or see I will not use it in the near future it is removed from my runtimes and backed up to dvd or external HD I can always load it back if I need to.  I guess I don't understand the need for huge runtimes. You save yourself so many headaches by keeping organized lean runtimes. Anyway, I am not interested in content library handling as there are third party programs that will do this. I am intersted in performance, render quality and memory management that will be the seller for me not how the program will handle all the crap I don't use or rarely use in my Libraries.

Did they make a G3 version of James?

I'm hoping for back muscles that look real when you pose him. 
Cut muscles are hot, but it doesn't look natural when you pose em.

Quote - > Quote - Dale B,

Another reason I like working with Vue is that is has the ability to specifically control lighting influence for each light. You want just someone's face lit, and no other characters, you can add a point light, and set it's influence just for that character's face. With Poser, I must use multiple renders and compositing in post to get this level of precision. I will not ask Bagginsbill to breach confidentiality by commenting on this feature. But I will simply state that I will be examining P8's documentation carefully to see if this feature is enabled in the new program. If not, I confess I will be disappointed. No demands for a pony. No tantrums. Probably will still get 8 (I have 7 Pro now) but will simply know that Poser will still have to be used more as part of a compositing system, rather than a standalone program - which is what Vue is for me now.

I disagree, you can make a light in poser just point at a characters face and ther is amazing control over lights in poser, use point at and set depth on the light and the lights also have the whole material room for its usage, way more than Vue and yes I have both Vue and poser. And trying to pose characters in vue is a nusance these two programs were made to work together as a natureal part of work flow,

You can get lights in Poser to just point at someones face but if something is behind and to the side of them, they are likely to get some spill.  With light linking in Vue, the only thing the light will illuminate is what it's linked to, no spill, no spread and no fiddling around with settings once the link is set.

You really don't want to try reposing Poser figures in Vue, it's an exercise in frustration.  The best way to do it is to modify the scene in Poser and resave.  Vue will recognise what you've done and ask if you want to reload it

BB, I have a little question.
Just a little one. :)

You know when you hit delete in P7, and it asks if you're sure you want to delete the figure?

Did this get changed to actually tell you what it is Poser has targeted for deletion from the scene?
It's one of my bugbears, and I'm sure it's not a huge problem to change that to pick up what you got targetted.
If it hasn't been changed, could you sorta mention it would be nice to have? I'm sure I'm not the only one frustrated over deleting M4, instead of his jacket, and having to undo the deletion and go through the whole thing again -- just because you have no idea what Poser has targetted from the dialog box, and it's not always obvious when you try to say... delete an earring.... that you have the head targetted... :)

:biggrin:  DEFINITE improvement :)

 Sold it to me already. Where can I order?

Interesting, BB.

Now.... is there any chance that Poser has STOPPED asking you if you want to save the scene.... even when you've done nothing but touch a camera?

That would be one PITA less.

mac

Quote - Interesting, BB.

Now.... is there any chance that Poser has STOPPED asking you if you want to save the scene.... even when you've done nothing but touch a camera?

That would be one PITA less.

mac

Do you really mean "touch", with the mouse, or do you mean moving a camera? I want it to consider a change of viewpoint as a change that needs saving. I'm very particular about composition, and when I get my composition just so, I want it to remind me to save, even if that is the only change I've made.

Even changing current selection ("touching the camera") justifies being prompted to save a file.  That's pretty standard in all apps that have this kind of feature.

Talking about touching, just wondering if something was changed when it comes to select a figure or body part by clicking with the mouse, currently there is no "SELECT" tool, just the standard move, rotate, twist etc, to select I use the MOVE tool, but a slight move of the mouse while doing so results in moving the figure. I know you can right click, but every other app I've tried has a select tool, I dont see why poser wouldn't.

Also would be nice if it actually selected what the mouse was hovering directly over instead of anything but.

Thank GOD for that!

And pjz99, yes, I agree.
And another btw... that tongue is horrible lol. It creeps me out. LOL

*Also would be nice if it actually selected what the mouse was hovering directly over instead of anything but.

*Perhaps this is a "duh" answer but you can already select anything in poser 7 whats under the pointer by rightclicking the mouse.

regards,

Bopper.

But that involves Right-click->Select->Object from List,
Instead of a single click, those are little details that can slow your workflow specially when posing a single figure, a lot of unecesary right clicks or unintentional moving.

Beware the prehensile tongue!  Gonna get you!  mwaahhhghlghlghlghl

I agree it slows down the workflow, but it was a big approvement compaired to Poser 6 which didn't had that feature AFAIK.  I hardly use the move or rotate tools, because I hate the sluggishness and unpredictability of it. I use always the dials to set the pose and the moprhs and if I want to to have more precision I just type the values.
As an professional autocad user I know the value of a single mouseclick, but I use Poser as a hobby so I don't have deathlines. But I hope there will some improvement with the interface in Poser 8.
Anyhow, the improved light features have me already convinced to upgrade (if I have the money)
I'm eager to see more of it.

regards,

Bopper

Sorry if this has been asked before..

 But are there any changes/improvements/additions on the animation side of things?

 How about the way Inverse Kinematics works?

Thanks!

Quote - Sorry if this has been asked before..

 But are there any changes/improvements/additions on the animation side of things?

 How about the way Inverse Kinematics works?

I honestly have no idea. I don't have the patience to animate so I hardly even know how any of those timeline things work. I know nothing about rigging and IK either, so I wouldn't recognize a new feature if I saw it, which I assure you I haven't looked. :)

Wow, Bill.

Just that little bit is impressive. Nice work! 

Well, I'm to the point that I just want to know two things. When is the ETA for P8? And, will BB do us some tuts here in the forums for some of the things he's been so nice to give us screen shots of?

ETA is not for me to say, for sure.

Of course, I'll be posting threads about using the new lighting features. I'm still learning myself, but as I discover stuff, I'll post.

Thanks, BB, your support is SO much appreciated!

so there are even more new lighting features?

No there are three just the three I've talked about or hinted about. I mean I'm discovering what are the right and wrong settings, how to use bounce light effectively, how will shaders behave differently, what to do about it, etc. A lot of people, on their own, will not get results I'm getting. When I post the how-to's, you'll skip a lot of failure.

Quote - Also would be nice if it actually selected what the mouse was hovering directly over instead of anything but.

Pjz99, that area is much better.
One of my personal peeves was what you stated and if you did happen to actually select what you wanted it ofen got moved as well...and that isn't happening.

Quote - No there are three just the three I've talked about or hinted about. I mean I'm discovering what are the right and wrong settings, how to use bounce light effectively, how will shaders behave differently, what to do about it, etc. A lot of people, on their own, will not get results I'm getting. When I post the how-to's, you'll skip a lot of failure.

inverse law,GI

whats the third?

I've been talking about it for months, as simper alternative to GC.

Heheh.

GC? but GC was already in poser pro

This is not Poser Pro. It does not have GC. Only Pro has and will have GC.

This has something easier to use and understand.

Given how confused people are about GC, you must agree that it is a Pro feature. Many people (especially at the Daz forums) still argue with me, insisting that GC is not needed, or that Poser 7 has always done GC, or that GC is something you do with your monitor. Clearly, it is too hard for ordinary users to understand.

That's the new definition of Pro - you understand GC and you always use it. :-)

Hey BB, you said it, " has something easier to use and understand." Good ! I'm all for that !                                                                         Mike

When I said 'touch a camera', I meant in an empty scene.

Daz Studio is intelligent about asking you if you want to save or not. For example, if you open a figure, play with it, then delete it from the scene, it won't ask you if you want to save, because there's nothing in the scene to save.

In a blank scene in Poser, move the camera, then hit CTRL+N and you're asked if you want to save. Save a .cr2 to the library and you're still asked if you want to save.

I realise Poser is asking the user about a .pz3 save, not .cr2, but it's still annoying (to me anyway).

mac

Quote - This is not Poser Pro. It does not have GC. Only Pro has and will have GC.

This has something easier to use and understand.

Given how confused people are about GC, you must agree that it is a Pro feature. Many people (especially at the Daz forums) still argue with me, insisting that GC is not needed, or that Poser 7 has always done GC, or that GC is something you do with your monitor. Clearly, it is too hard for ordinary users to understand.

That's the new definition of Pro - you understand GC and you always use it. :-)

GC in poser pro was pretty simple. it was an extra option in the render settings. when you used like a transparency map you made the texture 1.

i dont want to insult noone but this is as simple as you get. and i am no smart person. so are they slow or what? 
of course i understand that they changed it since people didnt undertand it .

they really told you that at teh Daz forums? that monitor should GC? so i need to F... gamma correct my google page or what? are they crazy or something. and someoen said that poser 7 did GC?

i mean where are those people comning from? the moon? because they can nto be from earth.

If P8 doesn't have GC, how will the Pro users feel about that, if P8 Pro isn't coming out at the same time?

i feel i need to pop in here.
GC is a great tool, DS3 has it now as part of the advanced render settings, unfortunately most textures( skin especially ) have already been Gamma Corrected  in a paint program by the developer, so the added GC in the render has a tendency to screw up all the subtle tones and shadows, making them far too light. this is really noticeable if you are using a dark skin tone and can spoil the image considerably.
when content developers start producing textures that are not already GC, it will be a very useful addition.
has it stands now i have to turn GC down to 0.75 if i want to render a dark skin tone, and it can still be too light.

3anson,

Poser Pro GC already does that correctly. It anti-GC's the incoming material. DS3 got it wrong and so the feature is useless.

But it is the anti-GC'ing of incoming colors that confused people. Unless you do something about it, Poser will also anti-GC your bump maps and transparency maps, which causes mis-interpretation of the "data" that is encoded in those maps. A 50% gray in a transmap means literally 50% transparency and should not be interpreted as a luminance. User's have to tell Poser NOT to anti-GC those incoming files.

Since most users have little or no knowledge of GC, anti-GC, why color maps are different than transparency maps, etc., then these users have issues. There were a lot of threads in the beginning complaining that Poser Pro with GC messed up people's scenes that used to render "fine" before GC. It was this sort of stuff that is trying to be avoided.

The new feature in Poser 8 does not do ANYTHING to incoming material. While it is not quite as accurate as full two-stage GC, it is much more intuitive and requires little to no adjusting of shader nodes.

Quote - If P8 doesn't have GC, how will the Pro users feel about that, if P8 Pro isn't coming out at the same time?

I think that if you must have GC and GI and 64 bit rendering and render queues, you should get the product that has all those bells and whistles. Poser Pro 2.

And I'm going to say it again. Poser Pro is not Poser 7 Pro. It is Poser Pro, the first. The next version will not be Poser 8 Pro, it will be Poser Pro 2.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Dale B,

Another reason I like working with Vue is that is has the ability to specifically control lighting influence for each light. You want just someone's face lit, and no other characters, you can add a point light, and set it's influence just for that character's face. With Poser, I must use multiple renders and compositing in post to get this level of precision. I will not ask Bagginsbill to breach confidentiality by commenting on this feature. But I will simply state that I will be examining P8's documentation carefully to see if this feature is enabled in the new program. If not, I confess I will be disappointed. No demands for a pony. No tantrums. Probably will still get 8 (I have 7 Pro now) but will simply know that Poser will still have to be used more as part of a compositing system, rather than a standalone program - which is what Vue is for me now.

I disagree, you can make a light in poser just point at a characters face and ther is amazing control over lights in poser, use point at and set depth on the light and the lights also have the whole material room for its usage, way more than Vue and yes I have both Vue and poser. And trying to pose characters in vue is a nusance these two programs were made to work together as a natureal part of work flow,

You can get lights in Poser to just point at someones face but if something is behind and to the side of them, they are likely to get some spill.  With light linking in Vue, the only thing the light will illuminate is what it's linked to, no spill, no spread and no fiddling around with settings once the link is set.

You really don't want to try reposing Poser figures in Vue, it's an exercise in frustration.  The best way to do it is to modify the scene in Poser and resave.  Vue will recognise what you've done and ask if you want to reload it

I agree!
With depth you can adjust just how far the light goes in Poser, Vue has better lighting in some areas I am just not very good with them, put too much time into learing Poser lighting....

bagginsbill, i agree that the feature in DS3 is useless as it is. it is a pain having to adjust it all the time, especially when using AO as in the Uberlight sets.
if it will fit here , this is a comparison of the same skin texture at various settings.
no gamma was rendered in DS2, everything else at the same settings, shade rate, ray trace etc.lighting identical.
s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq36/3anson/

The question I have is about multi core support. In P7 Pro the render is tiled in four equal pieces. That is not very effective use of the cpu cores. Did Poser 8 handle this different?

Mazak

Quote - The question I have is about multi core support. In P7 Pro the render is tiled in four equal pieces. That is not very effective use of the cpu cores. Did Poser 8 handle this different?

Mazak

Totally differently. Works the way you want it to.

Excellent :biggrin:

Mazak

Any ideas on the average render speed improvements with the new multi core approach (10%, 20%, etc..) ? Is it significantly faster or more efficient ?

This will depend greatly on how the scene is arranged, but it can't help being faster in almost all cases, because the Poser 7 method of division of labor is just very bad.  There isn't any way to guess a flat +X% increase to speed, because (for example) if you render a flat square of one polygon and no textures/transparency/whatever, there will be no room to improve on the old version - however if you have a scene in which all the "difficult" stuff is in one quadrant of the camera frame, it would be many times faster.

It's good news to hear this will be improved, although it's a bit tragic it wasn't implemented that way in the first place.

Yes, that makes sense.  There will be a great deal of variance from scene to scene and probably from one PC to another depending on hardware.  I was thinking more along the lines about test render times between the two 64 bit versions (pro 1 and 2) with an identical scene (one or two figures or props with hires texs).  Just curious.

Quote - Yes, that makes sense.  There will be a great deal of variance from scene to scene and probably from one PC to another depending on hardware.  I was thinking more along the lines about test render times between the two 64 bit versions (pro 1 and 2) with an identical scene (one or two figures or props with hires texs).  Just curious.

I second that, it would be an interesting comparison. Choose a render with some dificult rendering items in it.  Please. :)