Quote -
But you must remember that most of the third party render engine use their Own shader Language.
try telling poser users they have to Dump ALL of their many texture Sets for V-Chick and redo everything from scratch using Vray or mental ray shaders and watch the reaction.

I don't think that would be any kind of a deterrent.

After all, haven't Poser users been doing that anyway with Poser's marginal shading system since version 5 or 6? I think a whole lot of people would jump at the chance to try Poser out with Mental Ray or Vray materials, not to mention the vastly superior lights types that come with those render engines.

It would work out well for merchants, too, having all kinds of new and improved shaders to sell for V-Chick. Wouldn't have to dump the texture sets as they could stil be used, just wouldn't have that one-click instant gratification...

On second thought, maybe you're right. ;-)

I do agree with Operaguy.

Poser pro always has been advertised as a higher level poser program.

Now at this moment they ( SM ) can not offer  Poser Pro 8 version.

So i think it is very real to give this poser 8 version for free to subscribed Official Poser Pro 7 owners.

Now SM want Poser pro 7 owners to BUY !!!! the lower level software package to get the new program features.

Later on they want Poser pro 7 owners to pay a second upgrade if they want the Poser Pro 2010 version.

That's very strange, and not realistic.

This is for me SM hunting on collecting money, instead off appriciate the Pro 7 owners.

At least they could have given this poser 8 version to the Pro owners for a very little fee, instead of 129 dollar

@ paulifra

Smith Micro are offering the following to people who have Poser Pro and who purchase Poser 8 now:

1. PERMISSION TO JOIN THE POSER PRO 2010 BETA PROGRAM

2. A BIG DISCOUNT OFF THE UPGRADE PRICE FOR POSER PRO 2010

Hopefully... the Big Discount will prove to be justifiable to any Poser Pro owners who wish to purchase Poser 8 now to take advantage of the new features while they wait for Poser Pro 2010 to be beta tested and released.

Quote - At least they could have given this poser 8 version to the Pro owners for a very little fee, instead of 129 dollar

Can you name one major app that distributes new versions that way?  Microsoft doesn't, Maxon doesn't, Autodesk doesn't... Poser 8 isn't exactly a downgrade from Poser Pro, it's a different app that does many things that Poser Pro cannot.

I have to agree with pjz99... I certainly don't consider Poser 8 to be a downgrade from Poser Pro.

So far... I have only scratched the surface of the new features within Poser 8, but I already consider it well worth paying $129 for.

For the increase in render speed over Poser Pro (even though that is 64 bit renderer).

For the better User interface.

Certainly for the new library features.

Hopefully.. if the promise of a Big Discount on the price of Poser Pro 2010 is a fair one, then the eventual cost of purchasing Poser Pro 2010 (with 64 bit renderer and additional features) will be justifiable.

On the topic of the new render features: having trouble getting a clean Indirect Lighting (GI) render with middle quality settings (50% quality, 99% irradiance caching) and two lights.  Naked people render fine, conforming clothing seems to give rise to situations that show artifacts, maybe due to quality settings being too low.  Not all that pleased so far.

Quote -
At least they could have given this poser 8 version to the Pro owners for a very little fee, instead of 129 dollar

129 dollars is well within what I would consider a "a very little fee".
And any actual "pro" work using Poser Pro is going to be able to easily finance the upgrade.
There's a whole lot negative one could say about Poser, but the price has always been very reasonable and well within the affordable range, even for hobbyists. For people using Poser to earn a living, the price is astronomically low, compared to most other 3D packages.

I would be more apt to upgrade again if they would stop throwing bandaids on poser and fix the problems. I've seen this pattern with every updgrade. Folks beta testing are cryptic about the program, I know you have the NDA, but still come in and rave about what it can do and throw renders around. Folks get excited and buy it as soon as they can, then find out there are bugs, which the beta testers should have already found, and yes, I know they don't always listen to you. Sorry, this is what I've seen, been there since version 1, and it's the same old party every upgrade. If I do upgrade it will probably be full price because I'm not jumping just because it's on sale when it first comes out. I have done professional jobs with poser, but it is still mainly a hobby program. The poser world has changed a lot from the way it used to be. Now this company is about money, they have shown us that they don't care enough about their customer base to even make it to this forum, and since they closed their own forums how are they supposed to get any idea of what we want and need in poser? Now, flame on if you feel you must, but that is my opinion.

Quote - On the topic of the new render features: having trouble getting a clean Indirect Lighting (GI) render with middle quality settings (50% quality, 99% irradiance caching) and two lights.  Naked people render fine, conforming clothing seems to give rise to situations that show artifacts, maybe due to quality settings being too low.  Not all that pleased so far.

interesting.
you buyed poser 8 today?

i hope you will show a render with GI. this is really interesting.

Marque, folks from Smith Micro HAVE made it over here, and ARE watching.  Steve Cooper made an announcement about the Poser Pro 2010 immenence and beta.  Ratscloset and starlet are all over these threads answering questions they have answers to.
But, to be honest, it's not their job to come HERE to answer questions.  Why is no one calling or emailing customer service at Smith Micro to get their answers?  When I called customer service yesterday, I waited on hold a grand total of 2 minutes, and that included transfers to different people.  My emails are almost always answered right away, and usually by starlet or Ratscloset.

They're here, it just seems like a lot of folks are choosing not to see them.

Yeah I've purchased and installed a copy, I will kick something off and take a break while it renders (speed of render is not exactly baking my cookies either, but that's not a very big deal to me).

Make sure you change the General Preferences Render Tab Settings to help optimize Render Speeds... that is where the number of threads and Separate Process options are.

You may want to play around with Bucket Size.. I find smaller is sometimes better overall speed. Scenes will have impact.. No Dynamic(Strand)Hair, you can stay with larger Bucket Sizes. I get better results with smaller buckets when using Strand Hair... Before you use IL, you may want to optimize your Render Settings. I noticed that what worked with IL off, worked with IL on, but it is faster with it off when setting things up.

Reading all of you 3D tech geeks bicker about rendering apps is making me want to stick to creative writing...

For a hobbyist like myself, who's still relatively new to 3D modeling, and just wants to bring some ideas I have to life in a virtual environment, how does Poser 8 stack up against Poser 7?

Quote - On the topic of the new render features: having trouble getting a clean Indirect Lighting (GI) render with middle quality settings (50% quality, 99% irradiance caching) and two lights.  Naked people render fine, conforming clothing seems to give rise to situations that show artifacts, maybe due to quality settings being too low.  Not all that pleased so far.

Irradiance Caching at 99 is very high setting and should not be necessary in most cases. Try something in the range of 20-30 for significantly faster renders, and for the time you gained you can turn up the indirect light quality.

Quote -
Reading all of you 3D tech geeks bicker about rendering apps is making me want to stick to creative writing...

For a hobbyist like myself, who's still relatively new to 3D modeling, and just wants to bring some ideas I have to life in a virtual environment, how does Poser 8 stack up against Poser 7?

We 3D geek tech types LIKE to to bicker. Is that ok with you? ;-)

There is at least one very recent thread here that has a huge amount of info regarding Poser 8 improvements over Poser 7, along with a whole slew of Poser 8 renders.
www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

And there are other recent Poser 8 threads too, plus of course what Smith Micro has to say about its new features.
Short answer, Poser 8 appears to have quite a bit of improvements over Poser 7.

Quote - Reading all of you 3D tech geeks bicker about rendering apps is making me want to stick to creative writing...

For a hobbyist like myself, who's still relatively new to 3D modeling, and just wants to bring some ideas I have to life in a virtual environment, how does Poser 8 stack up against Poser 7?

Forum Posting tends to be Creative Writing in action many times!

Poser 8 is a big step forward for all users. From the Lighting, Rendering, etc.. to the Library and Interface, it has been stepped up a notch (or two...)

Quote - > Quote - On the topic of the new render features: having trouble getting a clean Indirect Lighting (GI) render with middle quality settings (50% quality, 99% irradiance caching) and two lights.  Naked people render fine, conforming clothing seems to give rise to situations that show artifacts, maybe due to quality settings being too low.  Not all that pleased so far.

Irradiance Caching at 99 is very high setting and should not be necessary in most cases. Try something in the range of 20-30 for significantly faster renders, and for the time you gained you can turn up the indirect light quality.

Well, never mind I'll just try it that way.

Quote - We 3D geek tech types LIKE to to bicker. Is that ok with you? ;-)

Oh, I SUPPOSE...  hehehe

Quote - There is at least one very recent thread here that has a huge amount of info regarding Poser 8 improvements over Poser 7, along with a whole slew of Poser 8 renders.
www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

Thanks very much.  :)

Having now seen the structure of offer to Pro licensees, it is about the same as I was first suggesting (free upgrade to 8 and no special discount on PP2010 when it comes out). Especially so since Mr. Cooper is saying full deduction of the P8 upgrade. So that is fair as far as it goes. Remember, to "get the advaantage" of the P8 features, Pro people will be without key PPro features for up to a year.

So SM 'has the float' on that. I still would have prefered the other way: let SM ante up the free upgrade to P8 (which costs them nothing on COGS) and trust that the excitement on PP2010 they can generate would retain license renewal/upgrade for Pro people.

It feels like PP2010 is a good 9-12 months away from release.

But no big deal, i am not whining, just pointing out the power positioning.

::::: Opera :::::

** I'll run a few more and see if there is a combination of settings that is clean, yet not terribly slow. 

Stewar in what circumstances would one be "willing to pay the price" for ICache at 99% in order to get advanced quality in certain lighting/surfaces, etc?

In other words, when WOULD it be worth pushing IC to the top?

**Oops, I meant to inset that render in a bit of empty space but rest assured, there's a bunch of artifact garbage all around the border.

Running one now with both options at maximum.

http://mvpny.com/RadTutMV/RadiosityTut3MV.html

can you pinpoint by leaving IC and IL the same, switch off one light and play with the settings on the light?

"raytraced shadows of 5 degree blur, min shadow bias .1"

what are you render settings for pixel samples etc?

That looks terrible, pjz.
Have you tried it wit other figures with the same results?

There are artifacts on the BACKDROP AND THE BORDER, I think it's a no-brainer that it isn't related to the figure (although most obvious there).

Quote - what are you render settings for pixel samples etc?

Pixel samples is 5 or 6 (above default, because 3 was not antialasing all that well)
Min shading rate is set to .1, and the bodyparts of the conformer as well as the backdrop are set to .05

It may not be obvious but the backdrop is a flat white color with no specular.  It is acquiring a blue tint from the environment sphere (bagginsbill's).  It shows GI artifacts in all the pics.

pjz you are of course an advanced user so don't be offended if this seems too challenging, I am just trying to get your basis:

is that normal for you, such a low pixel samples? Except for when I want a quick and dirty trial render, I am usually 18, 24, even over 30 to really push. Especially so when raytrace lights' min shadow bias gets down to .1 as you have it on the lights or lower.

Maybe the GI requires higher settings on pixel samples to blow out the artifacts?

I only raise pixel samples when it's required, and 30 is very very rarely required.  Depending on shaders used in the scene it can push render times up a lot.  In this case, if the user has to raise pixel samples to some arbitrary huge level to just avoid getting artifacts at the border of the image or on the backdrop, something is very wrong with the renderer. 

aside from that, pixel samples "should" not have an impact on this kind of artifact, pixel samples has to do with antialiasing (on paper anyway).

PJZ what is your min shading rate set at? 

I dumbed down the scene a lot.  How about some cylinder primitives.  GI artifacts everywhere in the image and garbage along the border.  Pixel samples is still set to 5 but I have another render of this image coming shortly that is set much higher.

Render with pixel samples = 25 looks exactly the same, no reason to post that.

Those little cylinders represent the money I have left over after blowing it on this upgrade.  In pennies.  I'll sum up with a hearty "WHAT THE FUCK?" and stop now. 

something must be amiss. You are setting such simple common scenes and engaging the GI, there is no way, except for stupendous incompetence, that this could have passed quality control.

I am not saying you are at fault, only that if there is some setting kicking this off the Publisher should have known about it and advised about it.

Perhaps Stewer can chime in on the particular settings for this render engine.maybe some major Oddball parameter is being overlooked.

maybe the problem is the shadow bias from  raytraced shadows? wasnt it said that we should never go lower then 0,3? you have  it at 0,1 right? 

and try it with DM shadows.

Quote - The features and benefits are listed at the link above.  If those are things you want for Poser Pro 2, then I'd start contacting support NOW to see if there's still time to implement them, or whether they're still developing it. 

As for the upgrades...I can't see that happening at all.  Sorry, I doubt they're going to give you a free upgrade just because you own the previous version and the previous Pro package.  A discount, yes.  Free, no.

It says it comes with 8 brand new human figures?

Ok, bit the bullet and am trying it, will run the hell out of it for the next 29 days...heh
Curious about the real skin python scripts, do they still work?
Thanks

RealSkinShader 1.3 is working here and I think it's a pretty old one.  Render Studio, Puppetmaster, just about everything I've tried is good to go.

PRPC is not working for me.  I'm thinking anything that uses ports to communicate might need to be updated.

I have been running Occlusion Master, no problems.

hummm odd.

What is Occlusion Master, if you don't mind?

That is a program by face_off who is also the author of RealSkinShader etc.  I am not sure where he is selling it now; i'lve had it for years.

It is a python script that opens up a pallet listing all the groups in the selected model (such as V4) and set AO parameters for each. You execute and it goes into the procedural nodes and attaches/changes settings for AO nodes on all.

I like it.

::::: Opera :::::

Bounces = 3
boxes with Ambient of 1.0
render time 667 seconds

I have OC as well. Can't do poser 8 lighting until I can download the content. Will have to go to a coffee shop today to do it since I'm on sat and can only so much before I get hit with fap. Tried to get it last night during the 3 hour free period but no luck, only got about 2/3 of it.