Hello, I currently have poser 6 (skipped P7 as I didnt see enough
changes in it.). I am not decided yet on getting it. The new library
looks interesting as well as the new layout and the rendering speed.
I was wondering what everyone thinks of it so far. I have been
reading some of the comments posted so far. I have seen some
have installation problems, some library problems , some
video card problems (I have a NVIDIA Ge Force FX  5200)
and of course some people have had no problems what so ever.
I have a Gateway and it has adequate speed and memory to
run it  and XP . Thanks for your opinions

Well, if you were excited by "Global Illumination" then I hope you have a PHD in understanding a massive amount of confusing shit.

I, naive, thought it would come with "Turn Global Illumination ON" button and that would be the end of it.  Or, perhaps, a different kind of light.

Nope...it's a labyrinth of nonsense that the "Experts" are bickering about endlessly, tweaking this and adding that and nobody seems to agree on how to make anything look totally good with this "GI" which as far as I can tell, involves making props that emit light, and using no actual lights in the scene.

Is that what GI is supposed to be???

Without this, about the only thing I've noticed is better render speed.  Meanwhile, things are crashy as per normal when something is new, and by the time they fix everything I expect to see a decrease in this speed gain.

It's just how things usually go.

I have the same video card that you have and I haven't had any problems with Poser 8. I'm running at 2.5 GB RAM and 2.8 MHz.  I'm also using XP.  So far I haven't had the same problems that some others are having.  Poser 8 is totally different than Poser 6,7, and Pro.  Unlike before where there wasn't much of a change Poser 8 can be considered a new version and not a 6.5 or 7.5 version.

I didn't have any problems installing it and I've done that 2 or 3 times and each time it was a clean install. I haven't had any library problems either. 

I enjoy Poser 8 and it has helped me to create better renders.  I don't have to use tons of light settings because of the improved lighting.  Would I recommend it? Yes.  I also have Poser 6 and I can tell you that Poser 8 is much better.  Does Poser 6 still have limited undo?  I have a review of Poser 8 on my site Poser By Design if you are interested in seeing some of the other things I've experienced with Poser 8.

When buying software be sure to buy according to your needs. What are the needs that would require you to buy a new Poser software?

Frederick
Poser By Design

Frederick. Your computer speed and memory are very close to mine. I am happy
that you have the same video card as mine . (I updated drivers tonight). Thank you
for your link and info.

.....Ahem...

Poser 8 can handle scenes that are more memory intensive than Poser 7 could. I have seen usage up to 2.5 gigabytes on my 4 core, Vista 64-bit computer. 1.7 gigabytes crashed FireFly under Poser 7.

LMK

I'll be one of the dissenters of the group and say that you should wait until it's finally ready for primetime.  I bought Poser 8 and got about a day or two of use out of it before it decided to stop working- all it would do is give me these protection fault dialog boxes telling me that "something happened" and that  the program needs "to shut down".  I've followed some of the advice some of the other members here have given to try to rectify the situation (upgrading C++ Runtimes, .NET Runtimes, video card and motherboard drivers, etc.), and it still isn't givin' me any luvin'.

I've also sent the error report text files generated by the protection faults to Smith Micro so they can figure out what the deal is, and I've heard nothing as of yet. 

So yeah- I'd wait at least until there's at least one service release out there before I'd go out and get Poser 8. 

Wolf, what program is that? bryce?vue?carrara?

Would be nice if poser had those types of options.... would be nice if the gi renders didn't take 12 hours too.

Just to toss in my 2 cents...

I was gonna buy it but after reading about all the long and failed downloads, decided to wait until after the initial rush. That and I really don't need the distraction right now, figured maybe in a week or so I'd get it.

But then we have all these threads showing the GI problems, the complaints about the library, some display issues, and the knowledge that even as all this is going on a SR is already in the works to take care of the library complaints.

So I decided to wait, see what happens, see what people say later on after using it for a month or more, or until after the first SR.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of positive Poser 8 threads, and I wonder if it wasn't initially hyped to be more than it actually is.

Additionally, the lack of 64 bit render in the Poser 8 release just makes me wonder why even bother. I've been using Poser pro and I doubt I could be happy going back to 32 bit rendering.
Although I understand why there is no 64 bit FF in Poser 8, I'm not understanding why they couldn't have released a 64 bit version at the same time. I would have been far more willing to pay for that, even if it wasn't the "Pro" version, even if it cost more.

Might just wait until Poser Pro 2010 (or whatever the hell they're calling it), which will probably be not only a better Poser 8, with all the Poser 8 issues fixed, but also a better Poser Pro too.

As for needing a "PHD in understanding a massive amount of confusing shit." to get past Poser's GI, I would recommend you never try out Mental Ray. ;-)

My question:

I have a Quad core w/ Vista 64 bit, and 8gb RAM.  With Pro 7, I just easily rendered a scene--8 fully clothed V4's and 6 fully clothed M3's in rather detailed 'ballroom' set'.  The resource monitor showed the background renderer using 6.1 gigs (including OS) with virtually no disk thrashing.

Poser 7 would choke in its own blood on this scene (tried it).  Can Poser 8 handle such a thing?  If not, I think I should wait.  Ideas?

Thanks for any help.

well, anyway, it's not all bad IMVHO.  the last time I checked, the experts had reached somewhat of an entente in which they will be able to tell users what indirect light settings to use.  two reasons to upgrade might be:

• poser 6 renders with no indirect light may look less realistic than poser 8 renders with indirect light
• poser 8 may render a scene faster, with better use of processors

the image above with GI lighting is VUE

I think he was trying to say it would have been better if Poser 8 had included GI presets.

ah...
yes it would :)

Quote - My question:

I have a Quad core w/ Vista 64 bit, and 8gb RAM.  With Pro 7, I just easily rendered a scene--8 fully clothed V4's and 6 fully clothed M3's in rather detailed 'ballroom' set'.  The resource monitor showed the background renderer using 6.1 gigs (including OS) with virtually no disk thrashing.

Poser 7 would choke in its own blood on this scene (tried it).  Can Poser 8 handle such a thing?  If not, I think I should wait.  Ideas?

Thanks for any help.

Your CPU isn't going to make a world of difference, nor will your RAM or Poser 8's better use of CPU.
No 32 bit app is going to be able to render a scene using 6 gigs of RAM, without using your page file on your disk, but I'd venture to say Poser would simply crash.

Quote - I, naive, thought it would come with "Turn Global Illumination ON" button and that would be the end of it.  Or, perhaps, a different kind of light.

I think they would have liked to give you this, and tried to give you this, but in practice it really isn't that simple.  At least not yet.

Animation crashes, doesn't finish. FFRender fails to complete the tasks, shuts down and so on and so on and... WAIT for it to be improved. The amount of problem related posts should make the decision clear. And after reading the posts both here and, well, about everywhere else. I find it VERY hard to believe that anyone has had absolutely no problems with Poser 8. I mean... really? No problems at all?

Quote -
I think they would have liked to give you this, and tried to give you this, but in practice it really isn't that simple.  At least not yet.

Well I know you know this, but it is most definitely not that simple.
If Poser 8's GI has any flaws in the available options it's that there are woefully too FEW options. I've never seen a program with radiosity that has only a few controlling options for it. The rule seems to be the more, the better.
I think the only way it will ever be simplified is if someone builds the telepathic render engine that just knows what you want, without you having to adjust anything at all. ;-)

Well, eventually people get used to working with new apps and find a way to get what they want. Ten they upload a tutorial and then everyone gets a better understanding of how to use the program. I just wish this thing was more stable, that's all I want. The rest is just a matter of study.

Presets would be a good idea.

Saying it requires a PhD is way over the top, though. Why? Because most frankly bad IDL renders are still better than pre-IDL renders. And anybody who wants an out-of-the-box press-a-button solution surely wasn't getting very good results in earlier versions.

Of course, I'm with PJZ all the way: let's get this thing improved.

OTOH, I've bought enough software to know that it's utter crap to tell other people not to buy because you've had a bad experience. With any piece of software, and particularly one that's undergone a major revamp, there are bad experiences. And the bad experiences are always the loudest voices, by the nature of the case. People who are breezing through things are often too busy having fun to waste time at forums. It's the people who are either having relatively unusual difficulties, or who are unusually demanding from either themselves ("help me to learn how to do this better, even though my renders make almost everyone else's look like cartoons") or their software ("I want a talent button"), that will post the most often.

That's not an advisory to buy. Any new version of virtually any software whatsoever goes through kinks. (It's BS to say it wasn't beta-tested enough. It is pretty much impossible to beta test for every possible scenario without involving the entire user base.) Whether the improvements sound significant enough to weigh against the various headaches a new release can bring, only the potential purchaser himself can decide.

Personally, I've had P8 two days and I've had problems. But I don't regret my purchase.

FWIW.

Quote - Animation crashes, doesn't finish. FFRender fails to complete the tasks, shuts down and so on and so on and... WAIT for it to be improved. The amount of problem related posts should make the decision clear. And after reading the posts both here and, well, about everywhere else. I find it VERY hard to believe that anyone has had absolutely no problems with Poser 8. I mean... really? No problems at all?

I really haven't had any problems with Poser 8.  The only 2 crashes that I had were right after installing and once I restarted my computer I didn't have any. I run 3 or 4 programs while it's rendering and it still hasn't given me any trouble. 

I've actually been looking for problems with my Poser 8, because it's only natural that there will be some for the first version 8.0.  So far no problems on my end

Frederick
Poser By Design

Quote - MikeJ........

As for needing a "PHD in understanding a massive amount of confusing shit." to get past Poser's GI, I would recommend you never try out Mental Ray. ;-)

Seriously Mike, Mental ray is fast and easier to understand than this poser renderer..... at least you know how to speed things up, tweek the lighting, control rays, samples and photons.... not much of that going on in firefly. At least I knew that if I was going to wait 10 hours for my render it was going to be sweeeeet. I could do tests to my hearts content then kick out a finished product. Here, I have to wait 45minutes on a 400px render before I can see past the final gather phaze............

You know that every time a  new version of Poser is released the threads fill with people trashing it.  So I'm not surprised that its happening again.

For what it's worth the download was flawless, the install easy after I read through it all and applied the included patch file.

On line registration actually worked this time!

Load time is significantly faster on Vista 64. 

There wlll be endless arguments about this but I like the new interface it's clean, simple and fast.  The new library management system is a dream come true, AFAIC.

I've done a couple of small renders and they've rendered faster than Poser Pro ever did and I swear by Poser Pro.

The program feels and is lighter and faster.  My guess is that a significant portion of the UI was either rewitten or cleaned up to improve execution times because the old UI was starting to suffer from old-patched-code-itis.

I git GI to work, even if not quite how I'd want it to but that's more   I suspect PBAK as much as anything.

Since the release of P5 there's been the feeling on these forums that every new version of Poser will be a mess and after a while it becomes a self fulfulling prophecy.  Are there bugs I haven't tripped on, sure.   But bugs are a reality of software it's what SmithMicro does about them that's important.

The suspicion lingers after the P5 debacle where we were told there weren't serious problems until they finally had to fess up that the publisher, whoever it is, will hide things.

This release just feels better, not perfect by any means but not all that bad either.  And I'm sure I'll run into some serious problems as I get deeper into it.  I'm just taking it easy right now while I get used to the interface and new features.

I certainly have higher hopes for this one than I've had for previous releases.  With luck it will live up to most of them.

ttfn

John

Quote -
Seriously Mike, Mental ray is fast and easier to understand than this poser renderer..... at least you know how to speed things up, tweek the lighting, control rays, samples and photons.... not much of that going on in firefly. .

Well, if you say so I'll have to take your word for it, as I don't have Poser 8, and can only go by what I've seen and read here. I was really only kidding anyway, hence the wink thing I used -> ;-)

I have used Mental Ray, quite a bit actually, and yes, I agree, it's not too hard to get good and quick GI results. Mental Ray materials are another story altogether...

But it goes back to what I wrote a few minutes ago - why are there so very few options in Poser 8 for GI settings? It seems incomplete.

Quote - at least you know how to speed things up, tweek the lighting, control rays, samples and photons.... not much of that going on in firefly.

No, it's going on, just the settings are so streamlined that you aren't actually shown a lot of settings.  There's a python script by Dimension3D included that exposes all the settings in a GUI with sliders and buttons though.  I hope they add these to the built-in GUI, because imo the streamlining is more difficult to work with than a more "busy" interface would have been.  In any case if you like to fiddle with settings, it can still be done with that script pretty easily.

*"OTOH, I've bought enough software to know that it's utter crap to tell other people not to buy because you've had a bad experience."

*My Pinto just exploded in to flames and I was wondering if anyone should be told about this so it might not happen to them?

My version of Poser 8 doesn't function properly. Smith Micro has look at my setting and hardware info and has stated that there are no problems with my computer setting that they could determine. They also said that they are aware of the issue that is causing the FFRender to fail which means a problem already exists with the sofware. This guy wants to know whether he should be buying this program. I CAN'T USE MINE which, according to Smith Micro is of no fault of mine.

I am not some Novice who knows nothing about CG. I too have been buying software for a long time now. When I buy something that doesn't work for me and somebody aks me what I think I tell them so they have a good sense of what they are possibly going to buy. And you think that it is utter crap to do this? My problem isn't a light set glitch or some geometry bug in Vicky 4, my problem is that it won't work!!! I think this guy, the OP deserves to now about it before he shells out his money. But you think it's utter crap?

The problem again is for people who want to click a button without really having to read a lot to figure out what all the varous parameters do.

Personally, I want to get a handle on those parameters, but well-thought-out presets (with some sort of decent explanation available somewhere) would be a very intuitive way to learn the nature of the parameters (assuming the preset showed the parameter values).

Not really an issue for me for long, because I think I'll follow a lot of the discussions (halfwittedly, but I'll pick up what I need to)... but a lot of people just don't have the time/patience to deal with all the technical stuff. And Poser isn't primarily catering to techies, after all.

My .04 cents....

I don't disagree with that statement at all. But your failing to see that some of the problems that are arising aren't being posted by beginners who want to "press the art button". by saying that you marginalize them to the masses that DO rip Poser over silly issues.

TtfnJohn, I am not a person who rips poser for fun like a lot of others. My issue is real and is serious. You said it yourself that you haven't been messing with it much. I have in an attempt to solve this FFRender issue. Meaning I have encountered the problem, reported the problem and now am having to wait for it to be fixed. How is that a rip of Poser, by ripping I would assume you mean unfairly ripping Poser.

I installed from the disc with no problems.  I did a simple (30 frame) cloth and hair simulation and neither crashed.  Both simulations seemed faster than with Poser 7.  The render engine is definitely faster.  I rendered a P7 pz3 file to see the rendering difference.  The only difference was the lighting on the fluid in a transparent glass.  The shadows looked more natural in the P8 render. 

So far, I'm loving the new interface.  I like having a big window to work in and having all the basic tools visible without having to constantly open and close the posing dials to use them and then get them out of the way.

I've added several external libraries and P8 had no trouble finding the items from the P7 pz3 files which were from several different libraries.  I have a zillion V4 character sets and a PowerPoint show with examples.  I'm looking forward to being able to do a search to find the one I want instead of scrolling forever to get to the ones at the end of the alphabet.

I haven't tried adjusting lighting or the material room yet.

So far, so good.  On the other hand, I've had every version of Poser since the upgraded version of P4 (I forget the name) and  never had any major problems with any initial version of any Poser version except, I think, 5 which was great after the first update.

For the price, I can still play with my digital Barbies and can render them faster and, once someone translates the new lights for the rest of us, make them look better.

Quote - [There's a python script by Dimension3D included that exposes all the settings in a GUI with sliders and buttons though.  I hope they add these to the built-in GUI, because imo the streamlining is more difficult to work with than a more "busy" interface would have been.  In any case if you like to fiddle with settings, it can still be done with that script pretty easily.

So, in your opinion, using the D3D python script would be the thing to go than the Poser settings/render settings?  Just asking as I don't have it yet.

JB

I like the layout. I like the search engine the most. I had no download issues other than it took a long time to do, acceptable given the traffic. I love Smith Micro tech support who actually seem to know what they are talking about unlike others. They are professional and were very thorough. Once this program is cleaned up it will be the best damn thing since sliced bread. however, I am not going to jump through hoops yet because I can't use mine. I am not really all that upset about it. What irritates me is that some are suggesting that I am an "art button" noob and my problem is not relevant and therefore is utter crap and shouldn't be posted.

Quote - I don't disagree with that statement at all. But your failing to see that some of the problems that are arising aren't being posted by beginners who want to "press the art button". by saying that you marginalize them to the masses that DO rip Poser over silly issues.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't do that at all. I said that most posts would come into one of three categories. Never claimed yours was the last.

At the same time, it IS utter crap to pretend that just because you're having serious problems, the OP will. You have no way of knowing that, unless EVERYONE is having the sort of problems you are.

Quote - What irritates me is that some are suggesting that I am an "art button" noob and my problem is not relevant and therefore is utter crap and shouldn't be posted.

Don't get irritated by something that wasn't said.

Quote - "[There's a python script by Dimension3D included that exposes all the settings in a GUI with sliders and buttons though.  I hope they add these to the built-in GUI, because imo the streamlining is more difficult to work with than a more "busy" interface would have been.  In any case if you like to fiddle with settings, it can still be done with that script pretty easily."

Where exactly is this script and what is it called. It sounds useful but I haven't been able to locate it yet.

Nobody here has any real experience with this program. It's only been out for a couple of weeks. You are no different then the nay Sayers concerning this fact. Why is it so bad to give advice that says there are problems so why not wait a bit? Wait for a service release. He has just as much of a chance of running in to the same problem as I did when I bought it. It's not crap to warn him. Now you tell me if he won't get this particular bug when He buys Poser 8? If you can do that then my entire rant is invalid. If you can't give me an absolute answer then my experience is just as valid as yours and not an act of pretending. He has every right to know All information he can obtain.

With this statement, I am through arguing the obvious.

Did I say you shouldn't warn the OP? NO. That's all fair game. Yes, give him all the information you can. That is what the thread is for. Heck, I myself said I had had some problems.

But saying everyone has the same amount of chance of running into your problems assumes that your difficulties afflict - what? 50% of users? and how would you know that?

All I said was that it's not up to either of us to say whether or not he/she should buy the program. I gave a balanced statement: any new program or new version of software is bound to have bugs. Whether or not that hassle is worth it to someone is going to vary from user to user. Thus it's pointless to say "buy it" or "don't buy it."

Never gave any numbers, did I? When did I do that?
 

Quote - Well, if you were excited by "Global Illumination" then I hope you have a PHD in understanding a massive amount of confusing shit.

I, naive, thought it would come with "Turn Global Illumination ON" button and that would be the end of it.  Or, perhaps, a different kind of light.

Nope...it's a labyrinth of nonsense that the "Experts" are bickering about endlessly, tweaking this and adding that and nobody seems to agree on how to make anything look totally good with this "GI" which as far as I can tell, involves making props that emit light, and using no actual lights in the scene.

Is that what GI is supposed to be???

Without this, about the only thing I've noticed is better render speed.  Meanwhile, things are crashy as per normal when something is new, and by the time they fix everything I expect to see a decrease in this speed gain.

It's just how things usually go.

you are in a 3D software.

CGI is about tweaking. someone will spend 2 minutes on the render and someone 1 hour.

if GI in poser is confusing to you then google GI and ask questions on this forum and i am 100% sure that in one day you will understand everything you need.
i promise this. if you will not understand it then GI is not for you. and you dont need to use GI . you can still use the default lights or IBL.

thank you

Thus it's pointless to say "buy it" or "don't buy it."

Good enough for me but some are still trying to discuss something in a civil tone and I am feeling that this is going on too long. We are in agreement with the above statement. lets just leave it at that.

Quote - Never gave any numbers, did I? When did I do that?

Okay, then let's parse this quote differently:

Quote -
He has just as much of a chance of running in to the same problem as I did when I bought it.

So your chance was what? Relatively small? Fair enough - but then it would have nothing to do with your advice not to buy, would it it? So clearly, you thought there is some relationship to the quote above and the advice not to buy, yes? Then there has to be a high likelihood in your mind, and it's a likelihood that neither of us have any clue about.

But I have no quarrel with you. There's no point to these kinds of arguments.

Quote - "[There's a python script by Dimension3D included that exposes all the settings in a GUI with sliders and buttons though.  I hope they add these to the built-in GUI, because imo the streamlining is more difficult to work with than a more "busy" interface would have been.  In any case if you like to fiddle with settings, it can still be done with that script pretty easily."

Where exactly is this script and what is it called. It sounds useful but I haven't been able to locate it yet.

With one exception. Our argument is different than that of the Nay Sayers or the fan boys in that we are willing to confront based on our experiences. That other guy is correct. there are a lot of Poser haters out there and the App does get trashed a lot by people who don't understand how to use it. My point was that a crap shoot shouldn't be worth $130 and he should just wait. Can you imagine what Poser 8 can do once this program is cleaned up? It will fly. We both like this thing I just have to wait as where you don't. I think that a persons Reponses say a lot about them and I like you because you cared enough to care what I thought. try finding that at the Xbox forums. So, no problems here :)

89% of all people know that 68% of all the statments can be proven true 72% of the time...everyone knows that!

pj, gonna go looks for the script, I know nothing of python, but i think it's as easy as find the script in the python folder and click, right?

edit: I'm not seeing a dimension3d folder in here.......

Top horizontal menu:

Scripts > Partners > Dimension 3D > Render Firefly

Quote - I think that a persons Reponses say a lot about them and I like you because you cared enough to care what I thought. try finding that at the Xbox forums. So, no problems here :)

LOL. I'll keep in mind not to visit the Xbox forums. :biggrin:

no, no, no! it's "if 89% of people fall in the forrest 69% of the time, 72% can be heard saying "damn it" at least some of the time" :)

that sucker is buried deep in folders.....python/poserscripts/scriptsmenu/partners/dimention3d................ something like this shouldnt be so hard to find

Well I had a few problems getting the library to show up, the included patch didn't work for me had to go to the flash player site and get it, that solved it. Had a problem getting wardrobe wizard going and the hot fix solved that. But other than that I have had no problems, and am very happy I have Poser 8. Render times for the same stuff I have rendered in P7 are close to three times faster. I dont know much about the GI or IL, but I will learn eventually.

When I purchased P8 I fully expected to have many little problems, it comes with the territory of a truly new app. Considering all the various different computer setups out there, it's unavoidable. Remember when Vista first came out? On my machine it was god awful.

Regardless of the glitches and things that need to be "fixed" Poser 8 is a true new version, with so much more potential to do many things we could not do with prior versions. By the time the first SR comes out I will have learned enough about all the new stuff to really use P8. Me personally I would rather have P8 the way it is  than P7. So I am happy with it and I have faith that the little problems will get worked out.

And its not like I have to give up my other versions of Poser.

Is there a place in the manual that lists all the python scripts (coming IN poser) and what they do??

Quote - > Quote - I think that a persons Reponses say a lot about them and I like you because you cared enough to care what I thought. try finding that at the Xbox forums. So, no problems here :)

LOL. I'll keep in mind not to visit the Xbox forums. :biggrin:

It's scary sometimes what those people say to each other there.

For those looking for the Dimension3d script, check out the Scripts menu at the top of the screen, it's under PartnersDimension3d & called Render Firefly. it's easier than wandering through the folders. ;)