I have been watching a number of threads this past two weeks here in the forums and find that there has been a lot of complaints leveled against Smith Micro over the Poser 8 release, ranging from everything in the world from lack of printed manuals to the repeated crashing of the program during simple tasks.  I find that I have come down on the side of the complainers with this new release and was mostly disappointed by not only the new Runtime direct presentation format, but also the lack of new and good content.  The new figures are ghastly in appearance and a definite throwback reminiscent of the old P4 Dork character.  The P8 sales notes claimed 1 GB of content, which was slightly misleading since most of the content was in fact "Legacy" material.  Anyway, I did not want to post this just to add more complaints to the pile but instead to provide information regarding a solution on this matter.

As some of you may be aware, the Smith Micro corporation offers a complete refund on purchased software for a period of 30 days [14 on physical shipments], during which time you can request a refund on the product as long as you sign a form called the LOD "Letter of Software Destruction" which deactivates your serial numbers.  There is a $10 fee for processing, but they will return your money within 14 days if the form is filled out and submitted to them within the time frame following purchase.

You must contact them directly [I suggest by phone]...the online site was unhelpful in finding my order much less in getting me a refund.  So call 1-949-362-5800 and ask for SALES in regards to refunds and they will transfer you.  They will then send you a link to download the LOD form and instructions on how to fax it to them for the refund.

I was also informed, while applying for my own refund, that you should be very direct and descriptive on the form as to why you were dissatisfied with the software.  Apparently the sales team is very interested in reviewing these complaints.  I think following this process might be the best and most effective way for we, the dissatisfied, to get Smith Micro to hear us.

Anyway, just food for thought and instructions for help.  As for me...I'm going back to my P7.

Thanks for the info, Sonsie3D!  :-)  Just so everyone knows...there's a service release coming out very soon which is supposed to fix many of the bugs.  Oh, I'm pretty sure there was 1 GB of new content. I checked it when I loaded it.  I think the promos say "over 2 GB" of content in total, which was correct for me.

To be fair, I've seen some nice morphs of Alyson and the new guy (forget his name ;o) ). They are bland out of the box for a reason I guess. Even Vicky needs some work before you can make her look human...lol.

I always wait for one or even two service releases before I buy a program, just so that most of the bugs are worked out before I have to rip my hair out with it ;o).

Laurie

Good point, LaurieA. 

3Dream has some nice morphs for Poser 8 Alyson for free here at Renderosity.  Deecey put three free characters for Alyson (which are cute and of different ethnicities) out at Content Paradise.  Cyllan, lululee and I have characters for sale over at Content Paradise if you want to check those out.  I have a character named Nadia and a 5-face pack.  I think there's a few others over there as well.  Point being, there are other options that Alyson's "default" face (which some people love and others hate).  Cyllan has a character out for Ryan as well.

Yes you can get a refund but does that warrent the few bugs on a new release for the most part? If P8 flat out does not work on your system, then return it.

But, I have been reading many complaints that were user system and not P8. This has been a pretty good initial release compared to anything since P4, which had a few bugs also. Not perfect but not as bad as the complaints seem to make it. Maybe they should have seen what P5 was like on it's release. Though I'll admit I was one of the lucky ones that P5 worked right out of the box.

My biggest complaint was the content which was more than 1.5Gb not counting t6he 1.7Gb of legacy or it was the other way around, what ever. Was the Dumb Fs made the install defaut to some screwy place instead of the proper, normal runtime. That was my fault for not paying attention.

I'll wait for SR1.

Quote - Oh, I'm pretty sure there was 1 GB of new content. I checked it when I loaded it.

By my count, there is over 1.5 GB of new, non-legacy content (including the texture maps).  And even that number is somewhat deceptive, since most of the new stuff is compressed.

I think a lot of the complaints, such as mine, center around the fact that the new version of this program  really isn't worth messing with.  Aside from the new light capabilities offered [IBL], the software has actually had more taken away than it has had put in it.  In a nutshell, for me anyway, I probably should have just waited for P9 or something.  I also applied for a refund and found the process pretty simple and straight forward.  Y'know I actually skipped P5 myself...went from 4 to 6 and never really missed much except the bugs apparently.  So I think maybe I should have done the same here.  Honestly, unless you're a Firefly lover in dyer need of the new lighting addon, then P7 is still doing plenty and actually more than the new P8.  When I talked with the sales rep with SM today, he actually told me that they should have a fix coming out shortly and mentioned that the software team was a bit disturbed by the amount of complaints over the software, mostly the lack of the P4 engine and the Runtime layout.  He said the bug complaints they expected as with all new releases and they do plan to address them as soon as possible.  So those of you in love with P8 but hating the crashes, hang in there, evidently they're working on it.

For those of you who can't work without the P4 like me...well...I guess you tighten your grip on your P7 and call SM up for your money back on P8.  At least they're not being rude about refunds.  I was actually pleasantly surprised I got through on the phone without even being put on hold.  So I gotta give SM kudos for being tight on the customer support end of things.

Well that's my ten cents...

I've had a ton of crashing myself, but I'm hanging on for the service pack.  (Yes, I've done all the updated drivers and every other suggestion.) 

IDL is cool.  The library is nice. Some of the new content is fun to have. But, cross-bodypart morphing is "da bomb"!!!   That's worth it for me because I love to sculpt.

Right now, I'm bouncing between Poser Pro and Poser 8 based on what task I'm doing.  Once Poser 8 is more stable, I'll use that exclusively.  If the service release doesn't fix my crashing, I'll be knocking SM's door--not for refund but resolution.

(Oh, I do sorely miss the P4 render engine like you, JAG. Sniff.)

OK.. while there certainly ARE issues with Poser 8... am I the only one who smells a Sock Puppet here? I always find it interesting when apparently old and seasoned Poser users sign up the very same day as they make one very harsh post.. often never to be seen again...

just seems funny to me...

(smells a sock puppet -- hee, hee) :-)

Quote - OK.. while there certainly ARE issues with Poser 8... am I the only one who smells a Sock Puppet here? I always find it interesting when apparently old and seasoned Poser users sign up the very same day as they make one very harsh post.. often never to be seen again...

just seems funny to me...

Good catch. I never noticed till your post.

I'm just waiting for the first SR, and I think anybody reading this thread who is planning on buying it ought to do that too.
Although I have to admit, being a Poser Pro user, I'm really not big on the idea of "reverting" to a mere 32 bit render engine.

But my curiosity is going to get the better of me eventually. ;-)

Quote - Although I have to admit, being a Poser Pro user, I'm really not big on the idea of "reverting" to a mere 32 bit render engine.

I too am a Poser pro user but I bought P8 so Now I only have to pay the difference when Pro2010 comes out. Makes it a bit easier to spread the cost out in two payments. Plus the chance to beta P8 and the pro when they finally let us.

Quote -

I too am a Poser pro user but I bought P8 so Now I only have to pay the difference when Pro2010 comes out. Makes it a bit easier to spread the cost out in two payments. Plus the chance to beta P8 and the pro when they finally let us.

Yeah, there is that. So it's more or less an investment in the future, so to speak.

Quote - I have been watching a number of threads this past two weeks here in the forums

How???  You need to be logged in to read the threads and you just signed up.

If you can't stand by your convictions and need another alias to tell us something we are well aware of , namely about the refund, well . . .

I don't think it would be Poser if it were bug free. I think all Poser users are used to the new editions having issues in the beginning and problems showing up every so often later on. In all honesty, I think the Poser community beta tests the program for SM...So the reports of people saying P8 crashes...tech that's old news. Poser has been crashing on take off since at least P5 and as usual, after a few patches...it's working. 

It wouldn't be software if it were bug free, you mean. It is impossible to beta every conceivable user setup, or even catch every single potential issue that the beta testers could have given the right circumstances. I've yet to see software that doesn't have bugs on first release. (Heck, few are bug-free at the end of life-cycle.)

I have been lucky and not had too many problems. I am fascinated with the new DP. That alone is worht the upgrade price to me. And while I'm waiting for SR1 I can learn my way around all the new stuff COOL!  :biggrin:

I too have noticed an awful lot of suspicious posting going on, not only sock puppets but some posters that seem to have an agenda..................Yup.

Return it? No, I only paid $1.99 for it, that's not even worth the hassle.

If I had to pay the full upgrade price for it, I wouldn't even consider buying it. There's hardly anything new in it. The new UI isn't that new at all, same old with a few minor changes. The new library is causing quite some problems. IDL is way to slow to even consider using on a serious production. As long as you do small renders it's fine, but once you go print production forget it, it takes ages to render. The new content is a joke, pure waste of hard drive space. Improved rigging system is worthless if you never use any SM characters. Wardrobe Wizard is much better when used stand-alone. The only thing worth it is the render speed improvements, but even that seems to be very relative to a system.

I still don't see how any self respecting company could release this as a new version. They did some minor improvements, added a lot of gimmicks and call it a new version, hardly worth the price asked for. Even DAZ offers you more for free in one of their inbetween updates.

Name a piece of software that doesn't have even a single bug hiding somewhere in it's code.

In these touch economic times it seems most software companies are going this route.  BS upgrades not worth the price, bugs, or time. 

E-on's Vue incremental upgrade price is a complete scam. 

This attitude is making things worse because less people are upgrading their apps.

Poser has always been a love/hate relationship to me .But I was quite calm with P7,hated Poser Pro for its tiny Pro features with its pro pricing and I am quite happy with Poser 8 because of features like dependant parameters , cross bodypart morphs and no more of th sh** "meta creation-Kai Krause UI" .After the fight is won to get the librarie to work ,Poser 8 runs stable and this happens not very oftly on my Vista Ultimate 64.P8 figures are somehow messed up, but hey I think Poser 8 is on the right way .

Hmmm. Clearly there are a reasonable number of people who are entirely dissatisfied with Poser 8. They should, of course, 'take it back to the store' and get their money back.

I briefly provided support for a very specific software product years ago and was appalled by the volume of calls we got which had nothing to do with that product. Most callers were simply too ignorant, stupid or lazy to figure out what their actual problem was... our software happened to be running at the time, or was the most recent they'd installed, so it must be our fault.

Others hadn't read the requirements to run our software properly, e.g. Quicktime was needed for specific features to work and this was clearly stated on all marketing materials, came up during install, and on the first run would inform the user that QT wasn't found and that certain features required it.

We got a lot of - often very angry - calls about the 'broken software' - fixed by installing QuickTime.

A sizeable proportion of the posts about Poser 8 / SMithMicro over the last two or three weeks remind me very strongly of those days.

I think I'll wait for the service pack releases.
Nothing's perfect the first time out ...

Anyone that contacts Support that is seeking a refund, can get a Refund by email as well, you do not need to call. The date of the email is the is the date of contact. The same people that man the phones are the same ones that also respond to the email requests, so unless you send the email to the wrong email address, there should be no issues.

If you are having issues with Poser I recommend you also contact support for other options... or if you have already contacted Support check with them first.

 I actually have a complaint about a few of the complainers. Seems like for some of them they just seem hostile to both Poser and Smith Micro. I happened to notice this phenomenon when CP renovated it's store site and closed down their forum.  Now a lot of people got mad at CP, particularly about there download histories and closing the forums.  But there were several complainers who for some reason  just really got all bent out of shape about it, like CP had targeted them personally to annoy.

A number of the people who were complaining  about  the forums never even seemed to post there. Just before the forum closed, I happened to notice that a number of people who were posting to protest the forum closing were literally first time posters.

And then there are the ones who have practically sworn a blood oath to never shop at CP again.

So I take threads like this with a grain of salt. The refund info is always helpful, but I can't help but feel that it's a disguised "Poser is crap" post designed to make people who are confused by the bugs into thinking they've been scammed, and scared them into asking for a refund.

I have no intention of asking for a refund, but I have set Poser 8 aside for the time being.  I found that I was spending more time trying to get the library to work than I was actually doing anything with the program.

I've read all the threads concerning what to do if you can't see the library in Poser 8 and have tried all of the suggestions that worked for "everyone else".  The latest attempt was when it was suggested that my Macafee was the culprit...followed by my needing to update my NVidia driver (did and didn't make any difference).

Now I've re-read some of the posts and am convinced that what we need are step-by-step for dummies (like me).  Suggestions like make certain that your security is allowing Poser is OK, but it would be nicer to hear "go here...you'll see this...if you don't see this, go here...if you see this...press this button", etc.

Since I've started making the suggested changes to my system, my system has started acting up.  It's taking longer to load pages in Firefox (I don't use Internet Explorer because it was always unstable); I get twice as many screen freezes and, when I use Poser 7, I can load figures in, but as soon as I try to click on the body instead of the hip, Poser just shuts down in a blink.

I've recently used a registry cleaner (and spyware detector) and have cleared some dangerous things off my system.  I now intend to take it in for a checkup at Staples (where my hubby is a manager) to see if there's anything that I missed (like why my speakers no longer work).

Once I get the laptop acting "normal", I'll revisit the Poser 8 specifics.

Try these RobbyBobby...

http://support.smithmicro.com/cs/smkb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2211

There is no chance to release a complex software bug free. Modern software is build in hundreds and thousands of modules. If you test a module until it is 99.9 % bug free and you put all the modules together so the likelyhood of a bug free software is with only 1.000 modules 0.999^1.000 = 0.367695

So we have to be lucky with only a few bugs in a new release :woot:

You all just have to excuse the old folks with all their wailing, Their bones ache from arthritis, they dont sleep well, they have to go to the john every 5 minutes, and they just want to biyatch. And being women they just cant shut up after they get started.  :lol:

red headed stepson, makes a mad dash for the door

Quote - You all just have to excuse the old folks with all their wailing, Their bones ache from arthritis, they dont sleep well, they have to go to the john every 5 minutes, and they just want to biyatch. And being women they just cant shut up after they get started.  :lol:

red headed stepson, makes a mad dash for the door

:lol:

Ooooh I'd run and HIDE if I were you!

Now.. Has anyone seen a dead horse around here? I feel like beating one...

Allow me.

Quote - Allow me.

I missed that one. Oh dear gawd...my sides hurt ;o).

Laurie

Quote - You all just have to excuse the old folks with all their wailing, Their bones ache from arthritis, they dont sleep well, they have to go to the john every 5 minutes, and they just want to biyatch. And being women they just cant shut up after they get started.  :lol:

red headed stepson, makes a mad dash for the door

Why, you little whipper snapper!....

How did you know? ;o)

LMAO!        Ow, my arthritis....

Laurie

• I'm hiding, you cant see me, can you?*   * there's a bunch of harpies after me, with sticks *  :scared:

Harpies have claws. We don't need no sticks! >:o) 

Quote -  I actually have a complaint about a few of the complainers. Seems like for some of them they just seem hostile to both Poser and Smith Micro.

This would have been better as a sockpuppet post.

Quote -
 I actually have a complaint about a few of the complainers.

I generally have complaints about those who complain about the complainers

Quote -
Seems like for some of them they just seem hostile to both Poser and Smith Micro. I happened to notice this phenomenon when CP renovated it's store site and closed down their forum

This is by no means a Poser phenomenon. Try reading the Autodesk forums once a year when the new versions of Max and Maya are released. It has nothing to do with any kind of intentional and/or misplaced hostility towards Smith Micro, and everything to do with the fact that people who join software forums tend to get vocal when a new release doesn't work for them or if they're dissatisfied with the new features.

FWIW, the number of returns has been extremely small. Well below the typical percentage that SMSI refunds for our other products. To use a cliched metaphor, I can count all the Poser 8 returns on both hands and one foot.

We're serious about standing behind the product with our 30 day return policy. And we're committed to improving Poser 8. Our Poser 8 Service Release is very close to complete, and we look forward to its upcoming release.

Thanks for your patience. And for the link pjz99. :-)

Steve Cooper
Poser Product Manager

Quote - FWIW, the number of returns has been extremely small. Well below the typical percentage that SMSI refunds for our other products. To use a cliched metaphor, I can count all the Poser 8 returns on both hands and one foot.

We're serious about standing behind the product with our 30 day return policy. And we're committed to improving Poser 8. Our Poser 8 Service Release is very close to complete, and we look forward to its upcoming release.

Thanks for your patience. And for the link pjz99. :-)

Steve Cooper
Poser Product Manager

Funny..... I've counted more people in this forum stating they would ask for a refund, perhaps they've changed their minds. What's more interesting is the number of people that buy/upgrade. Will that be enough the secure the development of the next version......

Quote - Funny..... I've counted more people in this forum stating they would ask for a refund, perhaps they've changed their minds. What's more interesting is the number of people that buy/upgrade. Will that be enough the secure the development of the next version......

I've noticed that lots of things get "stated" in forums. :-)

And in spite of a challenging economy, sales are doing fine. Thank you for the concern on that; Poser is near and dear to our hearts!

Quote - And in spite of a challenging economy, sales are doing fine. Thank you for the concern on that; Poser is near and dear to our hearts!

And most of ours, even with the problems...lol.

Laurie

I have a poser 8 complaint!

I'm broke and I don't have it.

Sh..., I missed that thread but thanks now I know it and, pjz99, I need a new keyboard with all that coffee in it.

Quote - I have a poser 8 complaint!

I'm broke and I don't have it.

You and me both!

Laurie

One thing people should keep in mind is that it IS the vocal few that are ..well.. vocal in forums.

If you're busy having fun and playing with a new program, chances are you won't have TIME to bitch about it in a forum.

I am having loads of fun with Poser 8. I spend time in forums either (as right now) while Poser is rendering, or from work where I can occasionally be online, but not play with Poser while doing my train conductor duties ;)  (I can imagine it.. "When is train WHERE? Can't you see I'm busy morphing this virtual girl.. now be a good passenger and leave me alone!"..er.. better not!)

Thing is.. there's a select "vocal minority" who is always making a lot of noise and it can trick people into believing they're actually the majority. Works in politics and it sure woris in Poser, too.

But most people are NOT having problems here. People leave feedback when they have anything to complain about (well generally speaking, of course there are exceptions) - as long as things work, why should they make a fuss of themselves?

*And it still amuses me that someone has to use a sock puppet account to bitch about Poser.

Unless it's Coopa trying to get us all riled up ;)

(oh and yea.. the OTHER sock puppet was me, just in case someone didn't know. ernyoka1 is my old handle here.) 

Well, I thought the sock puppet account was deleted some time ago :tt2:

Quote - (oh and yea.. the OTHER sock puppet was me, just in case someone didn't know. ernyoka1 is my old handle here.) 

I caught that ;o)....lol.

Laurie

Wel I've noticed that if you put a W in front of Aeilkema you get....................Oooh  Ok I'm running again.   :tt2:

Damn, gotta hide again

Quote - One thing people should keep in mind is that it IS the vocal few that are ..well.. vocal in forums.

If you're busy having fun and playing with a new program, chances are you won't have TIME to bitch about it in a forum.

I am having loads of fun with Poser 8. I spend time in forums either (as right now) while Poser is rendering, or from work where I can occasionally be online, but not play with Poser while doing my train conductor duties ;)  (I can imagine it.. "When is train WHERE? Can't you see I'm busy morphing this virtual girl.. now be a good passenger and leave me alone!"..er.. better not!)

Thing is.. there's a select "vocal minority" who is always making a lot of noise and it can trick people into believing they're actually the majority. Works in politics and it sure woris in Poser, too.

But most people are NOT having problems here. People leave feedback when they have anything to complain about (well generally speaking, of course there are exceptions) - as long as things work, why should they make a fuss of themselves?

*And it still amuses me that someone has to use a sock puppet account to bitch about Poser.

Unless it's Coopa trying to get us all riled up ;)

(oh and yea.. the OTHER sock puppet was me, just in case someone didn't know. ernyoka1 is my old handle here.) 

For someone who's busy having fun and playing with a new program you seems to post a lot..... sorry, just couldn't resist posting that ;-)