Okay... applied Poser 8 SR 1 and as promised it has cured a lot of the earlier problems... but....

1. I am pleased that the library thumbnails can now be re-sized, details switched on/off etc., but why oh why am I being forced to have a maximum of 8-10 thumbnails (91x91) visible at any one time..?

Okay I can scroll through them with the mouse wheel now that that feature has been fixed, but why cant we have a library view like we had in previous versions.?

I use dual monitors at 1929x1200 resolution and with previous versions of Poser... I could have my library view on my non-primary screen... expand it horizontally and have as many thumbnails visible as I wanted... up to 20-50 or more at a time if there where that many within a folder.

With Poser 8 no matter how much I expand the library view horizontally... I can still only have 8-10 thumbnails visible (in a vertical column) at a time.

1. I still can't scroll through many of the drop down item lists with the mouse wheel.... lists such as the Props item selector, Material Room item material lists, etc.

The SR 1 readme said that this ability had been improved... I haven't found any improvement.

1. The oh so tiny buttons for selecting panel docking options, etc., are still very difficult to select and open.

Are these things common to everyone using Poser 8 SR 1... or am I missing something... some new option that I may have missed..??

It MUST be possible to have a Library view similar to previous versions in Poser 8... because...

Since using Poser 8 (day of release) I was unhappy with the Library features and started using Dimension3D's excellent XL Extended Library program.

I may be wrong, but I think that Dimension3D has worked on some of the features or content of Poser 8.

If we could have the best features of BB's Poser 8 Library features combined with the best of Dimension3D's XL Library features... THEN... we would have the ideal Poser 8 Library..!

I agree.

That's indeed disturbing news because I happen to expand my library to look similar t o your first picture quite often when browsing for content. I wish there was an option inthe SR1 to NOT include the new library updates because I liked Poser 8's original views and the ability to view as many files as the expanded window would allow.

Couldn't have said it better, Ziggie !

I will re-install Dimension3D's script and just turn that resource hog OFF again.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?user_id=288865

On the same subject... personally... I don't like the new icons that are used in the Poser 8 Library.

Personally... my mind reacts to printed words before interpreting images... I find that in Poser 8 I am often having to think which icon I need to select and... often select the wrong one.

In previous versions of Poser... I never had that problem as I could read the options before selecting the one I wanted.

 I liked that way of stacking libraries too rather than in one long vertical list.  Add my name to the petition.

you can nto make everyone happy.

Quote - you can nto make everyone happy.

You can if you try and it is possible to do...

 well in poser pro you could have one long vertical  list OR stacked in poser pro - thus making everyone happy with respect to this particular point.
Love esther

Well I finally got SR1 patched on my laptop and since I still prefer the small icons, I think this is a non-issue for me. I'm certainly still seeing more than 10 thumbnails since I kept them small anyway.

Attached Link: http://www.senosoft.com/

Although I appreciate the changes made to Poser 8's library after people's feedback, I'm much more comfortable with P3do :)

In the new SR1 where do I find the new library options?

Quote - In the new SR1 where do I find the new library options?

Took me a while to find them, too. 

Under the library there's a little handle now, like on the other palettes. Click that and it will extend the options :)

Thank you TrekkieGrrrl, It's almost like an Easter egg to find.

The P8 GUI, all of it, not just the library, is completely new code. So the answer to why you can't just choose the old interface is because it is gone.

So, why wasn't the new interface built with the old tiled listing, you ask? Simple - not enough manpower/time to do all the variations. The new library style solves many problems and creates new ones. That is the nature of GUI design.

There are only so many ways to present a hierarchical file/folder data structure. There are trees and lists. Lists can be vertical, horizontal, or tiling in 2D. Trees are intrinsically vertical only, but have many benefits over lists. The chief benefit is that you don't have to go up up up over down down down to get to something, especially just to switch from one runtime to another. You can see all levels of the hierarchy at once, and you can choose which to reveal and which to hide. The downside is that if you have a lot of horizontal real estate, the tree fails to use it. We know that - it's not news.

We (SM and I) plan to do additional view options. Among them will be a hybrid tree + tiled list, much like you see in the other library add-ons above. This should satisfy those who have an extra monitor and wish to efficiently devote a good chunk of 2D space to the item list.

Quote -
I may be wrong, but I think that Dimension3D has worked on some of the features or content of Poser 8.

If we could have the best features of BB's Poser 8 Library features combined with the best of Dimension3D's XL Library features... THEN... we would have the ideal Poser 8 Library..!

I'm going to tell you something and you may believe it or not, but I swear it is true.

On the very first day I spoke at length to SM about the P8 GUI, before they had actually hired me to do it, I made this suggestion:

Incorporate D3D's XL Library, or one of the other excellent add-ons into Poser as the new library GUI.

I swear, I did. Building a new GUI from scratch is a big effort and I didn't want to work on that. I wanted to work with SM on rendering/lighting/shaders.

They had good reasons for rejecting each of the add-on libraries. Some don't run on Mac, some don't work without a database, some are unable to do Japanese, German, some were written in VB which was not acceptable, etc.

In other words, none of these met the requirements of the customer base as a whole. For most individuals, one of these add-ons is acceptable. For the user community as a whole, not a single one fits.

So, now you have the whole answer, and you have our promise that we understand the shortcomings but these will be remedied in the near future.

 that's interesting and very good news, especially as I have a mac so can't use that D3D thingy I think.
Love esther

Quote - We (SM and I) plan to do additional view options. Among them will be a hybrid tree + tiled list, much like you see in the other library add-ons above. This should satisfy those who have an extra monitor and wish to efficiently devote a good chunk of 2D space to the item list.

and

So, now you have the whole answer, and you have our promise that we understand the shortcomings but these will be remedied in the near future

BB the basic problem with your two posts is Poser people don't understand the words "in the near future". That is a phrase beyond our comprehension as it is too complex of a statement. We only understand the simple easy to understand word "Soon" spelled correctly, and or with a varying number of "o"'s. The side benefit of using the word soon, is these forums are filled with thousands and thousands of posts that either try to describe, debate (argue) and guess the meaning of the word "soon". I couldn't  find more then your one post above that uses the words "in the near futrue" in one continuous string of text.

So I have to ask, since there is no reference in these forums, just how "soon" does "in the near future" occur?

Thanks

Ok, I have it installed. I read the readme. I still crash when I refresh menus and my icons still need to be clicked on to get larger, which I hate. Am I missing something?

-Sarah

 can't help you with crashes, but the icon thingy is right at the bottom of your libraries menus.  it appears when you click on that funny little horizontal bar.

Quote - We (SM and I) plan to do additional view options. Among them will be a hybrid tree + tiled list, much like you see in the other library add-ons above. This should satisfy those who have an extra monitor and wish to efficiently devote a good chunk of 2D space to the item list.

question: Is it currently the plan to develop this option for an SR or is it more likely to be in Poser 9 or beyond?

I know setting a schedule for programing is a practice in futility so I'm not asking if as "set in stone" answer, just what is the current objective.

"In the near future" here means SR2.

When is SR2? Soooooon.

Thumbnail Size ------------

Sets the size in pixels of thumbnail images associated with content items (not folders). The chosen size is used to scale the image such that the aspect ratio is preserved and the longer side is the chosen number of pixels. The value can be 27 to 203, in increments of 16. The default value is 27.

(Note: The "traditional" Poser thumbnail size is 91 pixels.)

Other values are possible and can be set by directly editing the file LibraryViews.xml, but the slider in the UI only snaps to increments of 16.

Selected Thumbnail Size ---------

Sets the size in pixels of a thumbnail image assocated with a content item when it is the currently selected item. The rules for this size are the same as for "Thumbnail Size", with the addition that it only applies if "Thumbnail Size" is smaller. Leave this setting at 27 to have all thumbnails the same size, regardless of what that size is. The default value is 123.

Show Item Details ---------

Enables the display of additional information about the selected content item. The information displayed includes the modification date and time of the file, the creation date and time of the file (displayed as the "Installed" date), and the approximate size of the file.

Show Path Tool Tip --------

Enables the display of a tool tip showing the full path of a folder or content item. The tool tip is displayed when you hover the mouse over the name of an item. The default value is on.

Tool Tip Delay (ms) --------

Controls the delay before showing any tool tip in the library UI. Tool tips are shown when you move the mouse over a tool-tip capable UI component and don't move the mouse for a certain amount of time. This setting controls that time. The value is in milliseconds (thousandths of a second) and can be from 100 ms to 1000 ms (which is one second). The default value is 500 ms, or 1/2 second.

Tree Indentation --------

This setting controls the amount of indentation used to reflect the nesting of folders and content items in the folder tree displays. Nested folders and items are displayed away from the left edge based on this setting. The value is in pixels, and can be from 1 to 40. The default value is 8 pixels.

Show Folder Thumbnails --------

This setting controls whether or not folders show a folder icon in the tree display. Hiding the folder thumbnails makes folders take up less vertical space. The default is on.

Show Folder Counts --------

This setting controls whether or not a folder shows a count of how many things are in it. The default is on.

Quote - See the red arrow pointing to what SM calls the "Klingon Toothpick"? Click there.

ROTFLMAO. I love it.

Welcome to nerd central :D

Every new program has bugs, just a matter of waiting for  bugs to be fixed, But I think good customer service is to release a bug free program.

 just wish they would not rush to market bugged material when they got plenty of time to work the bugs out before release.

There's not reason to assume they had plenty of time. How long since Poser 7 was released? A long time.

They have to have revenue, or they run into negative cashflow and close up shop. In my work, we always calculate, for every project we undertake, a cost of being late. Usually the cost of being late on a major release is that the revenue bump doesn't happen, the credit line runs out, and the company closes its doors.

With SM being a much bigger company, it wouldn't close its doors but it could shut the Poser group down any time they want.

Consider what, say, 30 people costs to run a group. At an average fully burdened compensation of $130K (including benefits and retirement matching and so on) plus the costs of keeping a building operating, travel, etc. you're looking at $500K per month.

A two month delay (say, for example instead of releasing in August when they did, they released at beginning of October) they have $1M costs without any new revenue. That puts the quarter behind schedule, and requires that they dip into cash reserves, or if none are left, they borrow and pay interest.

There's more. From a marketing standpoint, it was very important to ship on a specific day - the day that SIGGRAPH began. Without the extra press interest associated with that particular day, there would have been less press coverage. Less press means less revenue.

There's more, but you should get the point by now that running  a software company is a lot more complicated than "let's just wait until it is perfect."

You're late DR - I already posted that - look on page 1.

And it isn't a "scroll wheel". It is a "Klingon Toothpick".

Quote - Well I finally got SR1 patched on my laptop and since I still prefer the small icons, I think this is a non-issue for me. I'm certainly still seeing more than 10 thumbnails since I kept them small anyway.

I with you on this issue.
That is not to say that it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the horizontal multi diplay for those who like that style.

Quote - You're late DR - I already posted that - look on page 1.

And it isn't a "scroll wheel". It is a "Klingon Toothpick".

Hmm, I thought that I started on page 1 at post 1. sorry I didn't see it. Was it a link?

@ **bagginsbill

**Thank you,  for your explanations regarding the Poser 8 Library and it's functions, the way it was designed, the logic behind the design, etc.

Thank you also for the time that you take to post within this Forum... not just within this thread, but the countless other threads that you respond to.

I don't know where you find the time, or.... the patience.

It is nice to know that we may be getting a tiled view sometime in the future.

As always... my original post was not a complaint about Poser... just my personal point of view as a user.

Quote - > Quote - You're late DR - I already posted that - look on page 1.

And it isn't a "scroll wheel". It is a "Klingon Toothpick".

Hmm, I thought that I started on page 1 at post 1. sorry I didn't see it. Was it a link?

Last post on the previous page.

@Ziggie - you're welcome.

I'll be out of town this weekend, though, so nobody expect answers from me.

Quote - > Quote - Well I finally got SR1 patched on my laptop and since I still prefer the small icons, I think this is a non-issue for me. I'm certainly still seeing more than 10 thumbnails since I kept them small anyway.

I with you on this issue.
That is not to say that it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the horizontal multi diplay for those who like that style.

Yeah not a bad idea, but BB has already explained why it wasn't done for this release and it makes sense. I certainly won't gripe if it shows up eventually though.

Doesn't look like you upgraded to SR1.  Click menu Help/About. Does it say 8.0.1.10434 on the bottom center?

It may just be coincidental, and I do not know or understand the hows and whys but,

When I changed the "Tool Tip Delay (ms)" to 100 or the lowest possible setting, slider all the way to the left,

My Library freeze-up problems almost stopped. Almost stopped is good. :)

LMK

 I have upgraded but actually I had problems installing and got 5 error messages along the way. SmithMicro tells me I have to boot into diagnostic mode and reinstall the update, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

Quote -
@ **bagginsbill

**Thank you,  for your explanations regarding the Poser 8 Library and it's functions, the way it was designed, the logic behind the design, etc.

Thank you also for the time that you take to post within this Forum... not just within this thread, but the countless other threads that you respond to.

I don't know where you find the time, or.... the patience.

It is nice to know that we may be getting a tiled view sometime in the future.

...ditto :biggrin:

My response: Then it needs to be put back. This new GUI is an absolute monstrosity, lacking both the grace, and sophistication of the GUI it's supposedly an "improvement" on. It's not only cumbersome, and badly implemented, but it also makes the program look about fifteen years out of date.

What was wrong with the previous look, that it had to be thrown completely away? What was served by locking everything on the screen into a dreary gray cubicle farm? Was this a deliberate move to dumb the program down for tiny-minded businessmen, who can tolerate neither beauty nor pleasure?

The new interface is stifling and crowded. It is as enjoyable as the inside of a submarine. Using it brings to mind to environment of Terry Gilliam's movie Brazil.

If this is the future of Poser, then there is no future. I'll be sticking to Poser 7 Pro, until such time as someone comes to their senses and realizes what a massive error this redesign was, and if that means that I never dish out for another upgrade, then so be it. My money will be better spent elsewhere.

What is that figure in the screenshot Cobalt just posted?

I must have it.

Edited because the post was totally OT. I actually like the new UI for the most part. It allows for more customization and there's less wasted space. But of course it's ultimately a matter of taste. For me the most important thing is usability, I don't like it when UI designers abandon conventions and convenience for the sake of glitz.

The figure in that screenshot is my own custom figure. It's not available anywhere, as it's control structure is somewhat limited, and it's sitting atop a borrowed skeleton. (almost no facial morphs, leftover parameter dials from the ichiro skeleton I borrowed, etc..)
I use it primarily as a posing guide for my hand-drawn cartoon work, so I was more interested in getting the body to work, than the face.

It caught my eye because it's pretty much exactly the kind of toon figure I've been looking for. Nice work :)

1. It only shows as many items as will fit in the "library" area, so long lists are cut off with no way to scroll down. Thus the "V4" folder in the screenshot above can't be accessed.

2. Lists of subfolders often appear BEHIND their folders (also shown in the screenshot), so you can't read them and drill down to the subfolder you want.

3. If you change your mind or move your mouse over the wrong thing, you can't easily back out.

I much prefer P7's arrangement with the library and parameters next to each other. When I undock P8's parameters so my library can run the full length of my screen, I'm in danger of accidentally redocking it in weird places (like across the top) whenever I need to move it slightly. 

When not using the library tree in P8, you have to click on that teeny tiny arrow on the left to open a folder. That requires far too much precision. Clicking on the name itself only opens up the folder some of the time - usually not.

Once inside the folder and viewing the icons, cursor-down only works some of the time to scroll down through the icons. Every few icons it will get stuck and I have to mouse-click on an icon to get it going again. 

Accidentally clicking the refresh button twice in a row (or twice at all) causes Poser to instantly crash - yet the refresh button doesn't always work, which means some folders are permanently inaccessible without restarting (and sometimes even then). Poser 7's instant updating of folders was much better.

However, the folder icons on every P7 top-level folder within each library were meaningless and created a huge amount of wasted space - this was never fixed.

@ cobalt

Did you have to say those things in your post..!

I have just spent the past ten minutes recovering my breath and cleaning coffee from my monitor and keyboard.

I particularly liked the reference to.... the inside of a submarine.

ROFLMAO

Quote - I have just spent the past ten minutes recovering my breath and cleaning coffee from my monitor and keyboard.

I apologize to you, your equipment, and your barista. Such a waste of perfectly good caffeine.

I do hope none came out of your nose.