I have a mac g5. and i had a g3 before. i'll be a mac person.

But a mac person can't live in a world like this. NObody makes software for macs, and nobody makes hardware for macs( cameras, microphones, etc). 

As for poser stuf, Many python scripts etc don't work on mac.
You get the point, most people don't have macs and have no interest in developing for the mac.

I"m pretty sure the majority will say "heck no"
but would anyone buy their significant other , or relative or friend a mac?
or recommend them a mac. 

I bought my mom a PC in June, if that helps.

Macs are great. I've worked on many a Mac and I like em. Matter of fact, it's the first computer I ever laid my hands on (graphic artist here). That being said, I find that Macs are most appropriate in the workplace. I prefer to have a PC at home because, as you said, there is limited compatibility for the Mac as far as a lot of popular programs and games and because there is greater hardware compatibility. That is however a personal choice ;o).

Hey, I remember the day when it was the other way around and you could get programs for the Mac that didn't even exist for PC. How times change ;o).

Laurie

I would have to say no to a Mac too, but only because of the lack of software, or at least my view that there is a lack of software. I am prepared to be proved wrong & might consider a Mac as my next machine (if there is going to be one).

Quote - I have a mac g5. and i had a g3 before. i'll be a mac person.
But a mac person can't live in a world like this. NObody makes software for macs, and nobody makes hardware for macs( cameras, microphones, etc).
As for poser stuf, Many python scripts etc don't work on mac.
You get the point, most people don't have macs and have no interest in developing for the mac.

 

Hi are speaking strictly from perspective of someone only planning to install and use poser with python, texture converter2 CR pro. Pboost etc. and other poser specific utilities??
if so Then why "waste" money on an expensive Mac?
just get them a medium powered PC
and they should be fine in the specific area of poser.

Now if they want a computer for "general usage"
a new Mac will do just fine with microphones,cameras,
Ipods,IPhones,third party LCD's( from Dell ,Acer etc,)your PSP Hardware,your blue tooth enabled phone MS office,Blender,Wings 3D,Open office, MODO 401,Pixologic ZBRUSH, Adobe CS,Adobe PS "elements" Adobe After Effects, Autodesk Combustion,  Maxon Cinema4D,Vray Renderer,Maxwell Renderer, LUX Renderer Lightwave3D, Next Limit RealFlow4, DAZ Studio,Final Cut pro,Final Cut Express DVD studio Pro, Anime Studio pro,toon boom studio, Swift3D Gimp,  Paint Shop pro,Comic life etc, etc ,.......etc.

Cheers
 

If he's a computer gamer, not a chance.  You gotta stick to PCs for gaming.

"Friends don't recommend Macs to Friends" 

Never used a MAC, no intention of using a MAC, if anyone asked me I'd tell them to buy a PC. I started on really old DOS systems before windows came out, as soon as windows arrived I was sold and never considered a MAC, I don't see a good enough reason to.
Sorry MAC users, nothing personal!

Its all Moot anyway
the intel macs will install and run Native versions of windows WITHOUT any Emulation.
but it sounds like the OP just Needs  decent modern PC
for  Certain PC only poser tools
that would be the Economical option.
A new Mac just for poser might be $$$over kill$$

Cheers

it's very important for schoolkids to fit in with the herd IMVHO, and that requires a PC, which is also more in line with an office asst.'s salary.  later, when the child grows up and is running some entertainment or graphics business with alotta responsibility, it'll be o.k. to move up to the thing that comes after OS X.

wolf, I don't know about the other programs on your list, but I do know that Lightwave isn't "just fine" on Mac. In fact, the Mac people at the NewTek forum consensus seems to be that the latest LW version on Mac is FUBAR and have been pitching fits for years. Also, there's no 64 bit yet.

But no, I wouldn't recommend a Mac to anyone, certainly wouldn't suggest to a friend or family member to buy one. I'd just do like I have been doing - build them a nice PC for faaaarrrrr less money. ;-)

I've owned both.  If the software which the recipient wants to use is available for the Mac, why not.

Mac has better security than PC and is more user-friendly.  PC offers more performance for a given price, and a greater selection of software.

Nothing wrong with a Mac, except the price.

I put Mepis Linux on my Kid's machines, and openSUSE on the laptop I gave to my Mom.  For what they use it for the software included with a Linux distribution works well, and it's a lot less headache for me to administer.  I do have one machine set up to dual-boot XP, but the kids usually boot it to Linux.

Note that I do most of my Poser work on an XP machine, but I do have Poser 7 running well on my Linux box, and Poser 8 runs perfectly except for the Library, which I have to run in Firefox.

Macs being more expensive compared to PCs is a myth. Sure, you can get cheaper PCs - and you get just what you pay for. The build quality, reliability and performance of any Mac is at least what you would expect from a well-built PC using high-performance, high-quality components, plus a purpose-built, secure, easy-to-maintain OS and a range of excellent applications that all work together out of the box, pre-installed. Photos, movies, music, websites, video chat, email, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations... it's all there and they all work together seamlessly. You also get better support from Apple than I have seen from any PC supplier.

Macs having limited software available for them is also a myth. A smaller range of options for any particular purpose, agreed. But for the use we are talking about there is software available for Macs to do anything that you can do on a PC.

I use Macs at home and support PCs at work. I have also helped my directors' families (wives and children) all switch to Macs for their own use, and not one of them has ever looked back to a PC for what they need to do.

So for the individual user I would generally always recommend a Mac... and even if they want to use a specific software program that is only available for Windows. I do application development work for Windows on my Mac at home, using Parallels. (I avoid emulation software, as I've found that Windows runs better as a virtual machine).

Quote - wolf, I don't know about the other programs on your list, but I do know that Lightwave isn't "just fine" on Mac. In fact, the Mac people at the NewTek forum consensus seems to be that the latest LW version on Mac is FUBAR and have been pitching fits for years. Also, there's no 64 bit yet.

Wel lets be honest Lightwave is a vestigial DEAD END on any platform.
Time will tell if "core" can Save Newtek

But in the end the OP.s little cousin will be fine with an off the shelf PC to run poser and some poser related utilities.
No need to buy some expensive Mac hardware IMHO.

Quote -
Wel lets be honest Lightwave is a vestigial DEAD END on any platform.
Time will tell if "core" can Save Newtek

Yeah, I agree. Actually, if you look at NewTek's entire history you see an excellent example of a company that had so many opportunities to lead the pack, yet screwed up in every possible way.
Core will be an excellent product when it's finished, but that's not going to be for probably two or more years (in spite of the optimism the company tries to portray...), and by then they will have lost many new and even longtime customers.

I would say I doubt they'll ever recover, but I think they will. After all, getting back to fourth or fifth place isn't too difficult, when there are only 4 or 5 competitors. ;-)

 I've used both.

All things considered... price, performance, compatibility, value, et al... Go with a PC.

Quote - Macs being more expensive compared to PCs is a myth.

Spoken like a true believer. Sorry but it's no myth. Anyone who's ever shopped around price for price has seen Mac's cost more. I like Mac's but I'd never own one. They're great if you have more money than sense.

I would ask a couple of questions.....

How much tech support do you plan on providing to your cousin?  If you don't want to be stuck with that, get them a MAC.

Does your cousin value their time?  If so, get your cousin a MAC.

Have you compared total cost of ownership?,  If you have, you will see why you should get a MAC.

Based on what I saw when we moved from 16bit programs to 32bit programs, it will take a number of years to make that move.  Most of the folks on this thread will have to dump their current computer to take advantage of this.  I won't.

My Mac is over 3 years old.  It can take up to 32Gigs of ram (currently at 15Gig, what swap file?) & with a couple of aftermarket products, I can internally install up to 10 2TB hard drives. I am fully ready for a 64 bit future.

Initial cost was a bit more than a Dell box or a homebrew, but total cost of ownership is much lower that a windows box.  Even moreso when I take into account that my time is valuable.

Quote - > Quote - I have a mac g5. and i had a g3 before. i'll be a mac person.

But a mac person can't live in a world like this. NObody makes software for macs, and nobody makes hardware for macs( cameras, microphones, etc).
As for poser stuf, Many python scripts etc don't work on mac.
You get the point, most people don't have macs and have no interest in developing for the mac.

 

Hi are speaking strictly from perspective of someone only planning to install and use poser with python, texture converter2 CR pro. Pboost etc. and other poser specific utilities??
if so Then why "waste" money on an expensive Mac?
just get them a medium powered PC
and they should be fine in the specific area of poser.

Now if they want a computer for "general usage"
a new Mac will do just fine with microphones,cameras,
Ipods,IPhones,third party LCD's( from Dell ,Acer etc,)your PSP Hardware,your blue tooth enabled phone MS office,Blender,Wings 3D,Open office, MODO 401,Pixologic ZBRUSH, Adobe CS,Adobe PS "elements" Adobe After Effects, Autodesk Combustion,  Maxon Cinema4D,Vray Renderer,Maxwell Renderer, LUX Renderer Lightwave3D, Next Limit RealFlow4, DAZ Studio,Final Cut pro,Final Cut Express DVD studio Pro, Anime Studio pro,toon boom studio, Swift3D Gimp,  Paint Shop pro,Comic life etc, etc ,.......etc.

Cheers
 

Yup.

well i didn't mean the "you buy your little cousin" literally. 
I'm just asking if you think macs are good enough and would  you recommend them to someone or use them yourself.

thanks all for your responses. 

What i find interesting is that people who don't realy do programming, or gaming or whatever, still insist PC's are better. They just go with what they hear. I'm not a gamer, and don't care about gaming. But everything else I"ve done everything on my mac with no problems. 

Both my teenagers have mac books... they love them.
Games, iTunes, ArtRage, Photoshop, MSN Messenger, e-mails, ToonBoom basic, iMovie,Text Edit and Word for writing homework, Googling stuff... thats the sort of things they use them for.

I have only ever had Macs in the past and use an iMac now.
Poser8 runs a treat and ZBrush 3. Vue Complete plays nice now and all the various Adobe apps I use are fine .
At my kids school they use Windows based PCs and so have on occasion brought school work home in weird formats.
But since we found a great online conversion site even that isn't a problem anymore.

The biggest thing for me is I rarely have to spend time providing 'tech support' for them and for the brief 6 months my son had a Dell/Windows laptop it seemed thats all I did.
The entire family ended up hating that machine for all the headaches it caused.
But I have friends who use both Windows and Macs for work, generally they have a Mac at home.

Of course hard wear can screw up and users can themselves cause all kinds of messes on a computer regardless of platform ... but everyone knows that.

So I'd say Yes, recommend a Mac toyour cousin .
And 'Lalala' earplugs so that the snide things some WindowsPC users feel they need to say about Mac users goes unnoticed ; )
If he/she needs to adapt to a Windows PC later  then they can do that.

Quote -
What i find interesting is that people who don't realy do programming, or gaming or whatever, still insist PC's are better. They just go with what they hear. I'm not a gamer, and don't care about gaming. But everything else I"ve done everything on my mac with no problems. 

Well I'm not a programmer, though I am a gamer, and I don't " just go with what [I] hear".
I'm a computer builder, and that alone will prevent me from ever even considering a Mac, even if there were no other reason.
And it's a very valid reason, too. You can't just build your own Mac, and you certainly can't do it for a third of the cost of buying one.

Snow Leopard Eats All your User Data!!

Mike, I used to be a computer builder, but as I have said before, my time is valuable. 

When people ask me why I have a MAC instead of a PC, I give a very, very simple demonstration that doesn't even need a computer.

I bought a bluetooth adapter for my backup G5 Powermac.  The adapter works with both MACs and PCs.  The instructions for the PC go over three pages (how to install drivers reboot, etc.)  The MAC instructions:

Plug the adapter into a USB port.

And that is why I use a MAC.

Of course, if someone comes up with something better, I'll drop OS X in a heartbeat.  I am loyal to my workflow process, not Steve Jobs and his "Reality Distortion Field".

Based on what I have seen over the past 20+ years, "better" will never come from MicroSoft.

I work in the reproduction sector.
10-15 years ago, MAC - MAC -MAC.

Now, you will have to look deep and hard to find a MAC.
So, question answered.
If I liked the person, NO.
If I really like the person, certainly NO.
If I loved the person? NO WAY.

*Well I'm not a programmer, *

c and java compliers come standard. There may be others but these are the only ones I've used. And let us not forget Unix running under the hood, an OS with over 40 years of development and security (yawn)
 
*though I am a gamer, and I don't " just go with what [I] hear".
I'm a computer builder, and that alone will prevent me from ever even considering a Mac, even if there were no other reason.

I like to tinker as much as anyone else, but having hardware and software that are designed to work together - let's just say that I've come to appreciate not spending days on system maintenance and configuration. I can actually spend my time -gasp - working.

*And it's a very valid reason, too. You can't just build your own Mac, and you certainly can't do it for a third of the cost of buying one.

Not entirely true.

When I switched, there were several support programs that I missed. I found that several support programs were no longer necessary. The only program I truly miss is HDR Shop, but as mentioned, a dual boot or emulation can easily fix that.

I've tried a release candidate of Windows 7. Definitely an improvement over Vista, but reminded me of several things Windows that have always annoyed me. So I would recommend a Mac for anyone that does not want to use Windows but needs more programs than what's offered for the Linux platform.

 The no software argument is bogus. Unless your cousin is doing something pretty specific, The mac has software for pretty much everything  the average user needs to use it for.

I will give PCs the gamer share of the market, but that's only because most gamers don't program for the Mac market. Frankly though if games were all they really planned to use it for, I wouldn't give them a PC either. I'd get them an Xbox, Playstation or a Wii.

To answer your question: Yes, I'd get my little cousin a Mac in a new York minute, unless he requested a PC. In which case, I'd happily buy him a PC.

Quote -
I'm just asking if you think macs are good enough and would  you recommend them to someone or use them yourself.

I do.

Ever since I began recommending them to family and close friends, the time I've spent having to do tech support for them has dropped from damned near constantly, to almost nothing (it's down to one sister now, and my missus who insists on using XP in her laptop).

My relatively ancient dual G5 PowerMac can run whatever the hell I want it to, applications-wise. Being five years old, maybe it's time to move to something else (I already have a Hackintosh running on a Core Duo, but I was thinking something a bit more portable this time, and a MacBookPro would fill that bill nicely).

You can build your own PC-based computer for cheaper - but you get to eat the tech support for it, and don't scrimp on the quality when you do.

You can get a Dell or HP with the same specs as a Mac - for about the same prices, and with a lot of cheap plastic holding it together.

As for the OS? Well, Windows will require you to run an A/V or two (preferably two, because one never really catches everything), it will require (even with 7) a decent cleaner utility, and a decent defrag utility, which contribute to slowdowns and time spent maintaining them.

Linux would be my best OS choice, but apparently few people in the CG realm want to build apps for it without charging a ton of money (e.g. Shake, Maya, etc), or requiring an emulation layer.

Note that I have no particular hatred for any OS... just that there are better ones out there. At work, Windows is just fine with me - I make a very decent living off of keeping it running on both client and server. OTOH, at home, I prefer machines that just run, with little intervention on my part (unless I feel like tinkering).

Wait-a-gosh-darn-minute!! Me? Buy for someone else? Hell no! I'd tell him to buy his own damn computer! Damn kids these days! Grumble....

I don't really care one way or the other as long as I have a computer to do what I want to do. I do lean towards PCs though because I am one of those that says that macs are too damned expensive. (they are)What gets me are the mac nutcases that are WAY too enthusiastic about them. We have one here at my college in the IT dept. and the bastard keeps going around to all the macs on campus and disabling right click on them because "no one should need it" frigging asshole not everyone likes those damned one button mouse pieces of shit that older macs came with. besides what about the handicapped that don't have the second hand needed to push the button that lets you do right click functions?

When it comes down to it I suppose that the main factors are money and what you learn on.

Oh the smugness and arrogance of some MAC users can be unbearable! 
In my old workplace, my little graphics dept. was promoted to a design dept. and we hired a Graphics artist. When it came buying computers of course we had to buy MACs because as you all know "you can´t do graphics on anything but MAC".  When the tech guy, who setup the macs, heard I had been working on PC for years he almost fainted and told me that "I'd be born again to MAC".  I decided to keep an open mind and after using MAC for a year I concluded that it was, after all, just a computer.  I found the MAC OS much worse, probably because I was so used to Windows and I didn't find the MAC system more stable then that of a Workstation PC.

One thing I think MAC users should worry about is the progression of Adobe Suite.  If you look at the feature list of CS4 you'll find some "Windows only" features but no "MAC only" features.  If this progression continues, I'd think in the future we can safely say that "you can't do graphics on anything but a PC" ;)

...yeah, I'd never want a Ferarri because of all the middle-aged arrogant bastiches who drive one. Nothing to do with the car's looks, performance, or styling - just can't stand the folks who own one.

(no, that wasn't supposed to make sense on the face of it ;) ).

As I said before, I come from a graphics world too.

In the 80-90's, it was a MAC's world, as all high quality press "had" to be done on a MAC!
But Windows, video cards, software, cought up. And the market is expanded, every home has some sort of digital office with a color printer... Huge change.

Before everybody used to have a secretary with a tik-tak-tok  typewriter.
Now everybody has Office (or equivalent) who needs the secretary,
Oeps! !  That could go the wrong way!!!!  Euh, to write a letter huh! OK?

All I´m saying is that if you own a PC and are used to it, there is absolutely no benefit in buying a MAC.

Quote - All I´m saying is that if you own a PC and are used to it, there is absolutely no benefit in buying a MAC.

Well, No, I read your screed and that's not all you were saying.
:b_funny:

Quote -
Now everybody has Office (or equivalent) who needs the secretary,

I could use a secretary. Preferably a topless one who knows how to make a Long Island Iced Tea. :-D

Quote - > Quote - All I´m saying is that if you own a PC and are used to it, there is absolutely no benefit in buying a MAC.

Well, No, I read your screed and that's not all you were saying.
:b_funny:

hehehe  okay, maybe not but who can blame an old PC user to shoot some bullets at the MAC elite ;)

Quote - > Quote -

Now everybody has Office (or equivalent) who needs the secretary,

I could use a secretary. Preferably a topless one who knows how to make a Long Island Iced Tea. :-D

LMAO!

Good luck with that Mike ;o).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - All I´m saying is that if you own a PC and are used to it, there is absolutely no benefit in buying a MAC.

Well, No, I read your screed and that's not all you were saying.
:b_funny:

hehehe  okay, maybe not but who can blame an old PC user to shoot some bullets at the MAC elite ;)

I was once a Mac person all the way. That might have had something to do with the fact that at the time, all there was for a PC OS was Windows 3.1 (which drove me nuts no end). As a Mac user then, I just could not for the life of me understand WHY I couldn't drag something from one window to another in 3.1. You could with the Mac OS at the time (OS 7 IIRC). Anyway, as the years went by, and especially since Windows XP, I haven't seen the need to stick strictly to a Mac, especially when there are cheaper alternatives (PCs). However, it all boils down to personal preference. I'm sure not gonna be a total Mac snob and I won't be a PC snob either. Both have their pros and cons. It's up to the buyer to weigh according to their own personal tastes and needs. In the end, one can ask for all the opinions they can find, but in the end, will end up doing what they want anyway, no matter what anyone else says ;o).

Here's my main gripe with a PC (and don't get me wrong, I have a PC and I like it): Before Mac OS 10 came along, the earlier versions of Mac OS (bless em) installed a program to (imagine this), one folder on the hard drive. The folder containing the actual program. Windows on the other hand, splatters every program I install in little bits and pieces all over my hard drive and most installers are not nice enough to completely clean up after themselves. I wish I could say that was due to gremlins, but alas, it's a nasty function of the OS. That being said, now that Mac OS is based on FreeBSD, it's not as friendly with it's installation files, and while not being nearly as unmannerly as Windows, is not quite as polite as the old Mac OS versions.

Other than that, I have no problems either with the operation of my PC or the maintenance thereof. But then again, I didn't have a problem with my Mac at work either. I actually like being able to use and troubleshoot both because I know them both well. Makes me more well-rounded ;o).

Laurie

 The thing that gets me about PC snobs is  that basically after Windows 3.1 PCs actually became more like Macs.  Before Windows 95, I wouldn't so much as sit down at a PC.

I'm still a Mac lover, but now at least I can tolerate a PC if need be.

 I think people who own PCs (I have used both mac and PC) assume all the problems they have with PCs that people have same with macs which just isn't true. If you want a simple easy to use computer, go mac. If you want to fit in with crowd, go PC.
for example:-
gosh I was cloning my mac for years onto an external firewire drive which I could boot from to restart my puter if something happened to my main drive,  whereas with PCs there are problems with the HD serial number being different and not being able to boot from an external C-drive etc.  although they say vista (the expensive version of such maybe fixes this problem????)
On a mac I never had to reinstall all my software.  cloned discs work so well on macs for backup.
Love esther

ok lets get a little more serious and drop the mac vs pc bullshit.

ask the question instead, what machine will suit the person better? what is their temperament like? what do they want to get from it?

then you can decide if they want a Mac, a PC running Windows, a PC running Linux or something totally different like a new mountain bike.

asking us ain't gonna help. we've all got these prejudices in the eternal holy war of 'what I like is better than what they like' and you won't get the answer of what is best for the person.

Nice post there, Kaibach. :thumbup

It is kind of ridiculous, after all, arguing over what OS is better.
Hardware is a different story, since physical mechanical or electronic components do come in terms of "junk", "so-so", and "excellent", and is worth arguing over, but arguing over an OS is just silly, except where people are just flat-out wrong.

Mac vs. PeeCee vs. Linux vs. Amiga vs. WhateverElse arguments are some of the dumbest on the whole 'net and tend to really bring out the worst in people, almost as much as religious or political arguments.

Of course it doesn't help when Apple itself is feeding the war with their own slanderous propaganda, with those ridiculous commercials of theirs. ;-)

 i disagree - the hardware has same components - it's the software and OS that gives the user experience.  i've used both mac and pc.
love esther

I wasn't talking about comparing Mac hardware to PC hardware, I was talking about comparing hardware in general.
I really hope you don't think all motherboards, processors, video cards, hard drives and so on are created equal.

 no but processor speeds on mac and pc eg 300mhz aren't equal, so you need to be careful.
Love esther

I don't need to be careful about anything. I don't care about Mac processor speeds and it influences my life to exactly zero extent. :biggrin:

" no but processor speeds on mac and pc eg 300mhz aren't equal, so you need to be careful."

that's back to PC vs Mac instead of considering the user and what their way of doing things is....sigh

for some people processor speed may be important. 

and a Atom powered netbook at 1.6ghz could be the perfect machine. or a Turon 64 at 2ghz running windows. or a TEGRA CPU running Android. or a Macbook Pro. or and Ahtlon or a I5....

sorry but the processor speed don't mean that much when you consider what the user wants.... a 1.6mhz Atom can run a wordprocessor just fine. or an Intel / Amd for games and so on.

better to concentrate on the user not the hardware or the OS. perfect example : My wife is dumping our Turon 64 laptop in favour of a atom based netbook.

why? the Turon is far more powerful and capable... but the laptop weighs over 7lbs. with her workbag (she's a teacher) it's to much for her to carry round.

so, we're getting her a 2lb netbook. it suits her better.

same idea with any user. they should get what suits them