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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 18 10:25 pm)



Subject: Procedural Geometry - Some WIPs


bantha ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 1:08 AM

 Yes, POV-Ray is quite strong in procedural geometry. But you can only use it inside POV if I'm not mistaken, there is no way to export stuff.


A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
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bopperthijs ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:37 AM

It also reminded me on POV, but also remembered the tedious work it was, to make scenes for povray with a texteditor. I was glad when programs like moray came, which was a graphic interface to create pov scripts.
I think it's a great idea, to make procedural, geometric library for Poser, which can be the core for a modelling module, but I think next to that you need a graphic interface that can create the scripts for that module. It would be more approachable for the lesser mathematic oriënted users among us. I don't know if it's possible to make such a thing work inside poser, but it can be also be a standalone program, which can export the scriptfile to create the geometry.

best regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?


odf ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:51 AM

Quote - It also reminded me on POV, but also remembered the tedious work it was, to make scenes for povray with a texteditor. I was glad when programs like moray came, which was a graphic interface to create pov scripts.
I think it's a great idea, to make procedural, geometric library for Poser, which can be the core for a modelling module, but I think next to that you need a graphic interface that can create the scripts for that module. It would be more approachable for the lesser mathematic oriënted users among us. I don't know if it's possible to make such a thing work inside poser, but it can be also be a standalone program, which can export the scriptfile to create the geometry.

best regards,

Bopper.

I think you've just described Houdini by Side Effects. Except of course for the "inside Poser" part. 😉

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JOELGLAINE ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:36 AM

 Impressive work!  I'll be watching this intently! VSS changed how I do renders, I'm hoping this might do likewise.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   


JenX ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 12:56 PM

 My jaw is literally on the floor.  BB, you are insane, and I love it :)  I don't think I could learn in my whole life the knowledge that one of your eyelashes contains :)

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JOELGLAINE ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 2:55 PM

Listen to the 'ghost of broccoli' ^ . She's right on target with that comment. I think she meant brain cells, though. My eyelashes don't know anything.:laugh:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   


MikeJ ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:49 PM · edited Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:50 PM

She probably did mean eyelashes. I think being a Renderosity Poser Forum mod requires one to learn how to think with as much biological matter as is available, to get a different perspective on things the brain might not be used to thinking about in more abstract terms.

I mean, the brain is used to functioning on logic and sometimes gets tripped up when confronted with something weird or so ...out there... that it might have trouble properly interpreting what it's hearing, seeing, reading.

So if thinking with one's eyelashes might help a little towards deciphering some of the weirdness around this place.. hey, you use what ya got. ;-)



JenX ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:52 PM

 :lol:  I mean eyelash, because it contains less "knowledge" than a brain cell ;)

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:56 PM

file_441862.jpg

I promised some wireframes. I have some time at the moment, so I'll crank some out. I don't have all the details worked out yet, and some of the welding of points isn't set up right, but I'll try to give you some idea of poly and vertex counts.

I'll be doing these for a while, so feel free to interrupt.

First - a basic wall section with nothing in it.

8 vertices
3 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:56 PM

file_441863.jpg

Rendered wall section.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:58 PM · edited Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:58 PM

file_441864.jpg

Adding baseboard, on this side of the wall only. (The other side is an "external" wall. If this was internal on both sides, there would be baseboard on both sides.)

46 vertices
21 polygons

The baseboard is made from a poly-line object, extruded across the base of the wall. It can be any shape.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:59 PM

file_441865.jpg

Rendered baseboard.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:03 PM

file_441866.jpg

Cutting a doorway changes the wall like this.

42 vertices
11 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:03 PM

file_441867.jpg

Rendered doorway.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:04 PM

file_441868.jpg

When baseboard is present, the doorway cuts it, too. It cuts it farther, because there will be a frame around the door.

152 vertices
47 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:05 PM

file_441870.jpg

Cut baseboard rendered.


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JenX ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:07 PM

amazing.... 

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:07 PM

file_441872.jpg

Adding the door frame.

368 vertices
101 polygons

The doorframe is also made from an arbitrary polyline, extruded three times, and miter cut and joined in the upper corners.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:07 PM

file_441873.jpg

Door frame rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:09 PM

file_441874.jpg

Cutting a window, with frame. Notice this doesn't affect the baseboard, only the wall. But the wall has to have sections above *and* below the window.

696 vertices
183 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:10 PM

file_441875.jpg

Window frame rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:12 PM

file_441876.jpg

Now the doorway with an actual door in it. The door can be lots of different styles. I'm using a type of door I have in my home - 4 panels with a nice contour in each panel.

I haven't studied how this should be welded, so I think there are more vertices here than needed.

1424 vertices
365 polygons
 


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:12 PM

file_441877.jpg

Door rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:15 PM

file_441878.jpg

Adding an actual window now. This is a very complex window, with 24 panes of glass - what I have in my home. I don't know what you call those pieces of wood between the panes, but the shape is configurable, made from a polyline, and extruded and mitered automatically for each pane. This is QuadBuilder at work. Doesn't matter how many panes there are, it's just one call to make them.

1832 vertices
715 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:15 PM

file_441879.jpg

Window rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:18 PM

file_441880.jpg

Here are some other kinds of windows in my house.

3588 vertices
2391 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:18 PM

file_441881.jpg

Bay windows rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:20 PM

file_441882.jpg

These are the French doors I have out to my deck.

2464 vertices
1841 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:20 PM

file_441883.jpg

French doors rendered.


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Khai-J-Bach ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:22 PM

Quote - I don't know what you call those pieces of wood between the panes,

they be Mullions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullion



bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:22 PM

file_441884.jpg

If an arch is needed, I still call the same "CutRectangle" function on the wall, and then I fill in some extra polygons to make the arc.

This is without a frame.

193 vertices
67 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:23 PM

file_441885.jpg

Arch, rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:24 PM

file_441886.jpg

Now with the arch frame.

1139 vertices
949 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:24 PM

file_441887.jpg

Framed arch, rendered.


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Khai-J-Bach ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:24 PM

oops seems Mullion gets confused with Muntin .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntin



bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:27 PM

Thanks Kai - Muntin. I'll be sure to name the function that way.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:28 PM

file_441889.jpg

When walls meet, the script automatically cuts the ends of the walls at a 45 degree angle, so they match up nicely with no overlap. No new polygons are needed - it just automatically changes the end caps of the extrusions for the wall and baseboard units.

2616 vertices
1168 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:29 PM

file_441890.jpg

Corner rendered.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:35 PM

I have a little room-definition language and interpreter to make whole rooms.

Here's a room script.

<
c[----w------w---->
c------d------w-----w-----{m-----w-----w---->
c-------w-------]
cC
M>
{------a------

This is obscure stuff and I'd never give this out for people to deal with, but it is a quick and easy way for me to assemble walls and features, until I can make a GUI for room building.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:35 PM

file_441891.jpg

Here's what that made in wireframe.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:35 PM

file_441892.jpg

And the whole room, rendered.


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FrankT ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:36 PM

Looks very nice.  Some odd looking geometry in the rendered arch without the frame though.  Looks like the outside goes straight up and the inside has the arch.  If it's framed then it doesn't really matter that much though

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:38 PM

Right Frank - I'm still prototyping. I forgot to build the back side of the arched wall.


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FrankT ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:40 PM · edited Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:41 PM

that'd be why then.  I reckon the archvis guys would love something like this.  The mesh looks clean from what I can see of it.

I guess you could add UV co-ords to the obj file as well which would come in handy

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GeneralNutt ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:43 PM

What no crown molding? Amazing Stuff.



bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:50 PM

file_441893.jpg

> Quote - that'd be why then.  I reckon the archvis guys would love something like this.  The mesh looks clean from what I can see of it. > > I guess you could add UV co-ords to the obj file as well which would come in handy

It already is UV'd. That's one of the areas I'm not clear on - how to UV the walls. I have tentatively settled on two things, but I can change my mind about it:

1) Wall UV coordinates are in yards. Which means values go way above 1.

  1. Corners are consistent - if a wall ends at something that isn't a multiple of a yard, the next wall continues where that wall left off.

My goal is to avoid discontinuities in corners like this one (which I made on purpose.) (Notice also that the arch-filler isn't UV'd yet.)

I wonder, though, if the UV > 1 is a problem for some applications. It isn't for Poser.


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Casette ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:54 PM

Simply INCREDIBLE :woot:


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=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"


FrankT ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:54 PM · edited Mon, 26 October 2009 at 4:55 PM

If I was going to do this in Blender I'd probably map each wall section separately.  That way you can adjust the texture when you create the map in photoshop or whatever to line the textures up.
Being as you are the procedural god I dunno if that would be such a huge problem though.

I dunno if Blender would choke on a uv map like that but if you want me to have a go then feel free :)

I suck royally at UV mapping though so bear that in mind :)

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GeneralNutt ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:03 PM

Quote -

  1. Corners are consistent - if a wall ends at something that isn't a multiple of a yard, the next wall continues where that wall left off.

My goal is to avoid discontinuities in corners like this one (which I made on purpose.) (Notice also that the arch-filler isn't UV'd yet.)

  1. is cool for wall papered rooms made easy.
    Will the arch be treated similarly to (2 ?



bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:05 PM

file_441895.jpg

> Quote - What no crown molding? Amazing Stuff.

Now there is.


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