This is my vent, but if I make a few valid points feel free to chime in - and feel free to chime in anyway. Here is my list of pet peaves about POSER, DAZ SUDIO, and sites like 3dcommune, runtimeDNA, DAZ, etc. Please don't let it offend you, because this is therapy for me - and if I don't share it, I'll drop like a rock from hypertension, lol.

#1, FAIRIES!!! Fairies, or fae, or sprites, or twinkles, or whatever the hell that you want to call them. O-V-E-R-K-I-L-L!!!, I refuse to believe that there are that many combination Disney fans / former Dungeons & Dragon players on the ENTIRE planet. Enough with the fairies already!
If I see one more pair of pointed ears - I'm going to go outside and lay down in the middle of the road.

#2, Why is it that every time somebody comes out with a new figure, or a new version of Poser, SUDDENLY - all that you see is the stuff for the NEW crapola in the market place and in the freebies. Is SMITH MICRO, or DAZ, or any of those other folks giving you independant merchants any income or gratuities for pushing their latest buggy, beta qauIity ugrades?

I just bought Poser 6 like yesterday, and just finally was able to buy the freakin head and body morphs for Victoria 3 and Mike 3, and now BAM! Everythings about POSER 8, ALYSON, VICKY 4.2 AND MIKE 4, MIKI (whoever that is), AND A4, AND A BUNCH OF OTHER HOOKY FIGURES THAT JUST SUDDENLY "HAPPENED"! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!!! 

SLOW DOWN AND TAKE A BREATHER ALREADY!!!! Maybe MYSELF AND OTHERS  may want to still buy stuff for the G3 figures. Think of the revenue your losing!

Vicky3 looks just as good (actually better when you get right down to the details) than Vic4.2.
Victoria 4.2 comes with this creepy head hair texture, a cheezy second skin purple bikini, and no secondary gender characteristics to speak of whatsoever. She's WORSE than a 1950s era department store mannequin. At least THEY had some measure of non-utilitarian symmetry, and a heck of a lot more character!

Hey DAZ - what's wrong with giving her a set of nipples? Not that I'm a perv or anything - but I DO NOT think that seven year olds with impressionable minds are the ONLY one's downloading these figures, so you don't have to sanitize them to Sesame Street grade ultracensored  androgeny!

#3, THE SECONDARY MORPH CHANNEL PACKAGE SCAM!!!  Not ONLY do we have to buy seperate HEAD AND BODY morph packages for V4.2 and Mike4.2, but to make some of the ultra complicated characters that some of you short sighted, business saavy  NIMRODS out there want to sell or give away - we have to buy OTHER morph packs as well to make them work - like the "ELITE" morph packs, or the "Perfection" morph packs, or the "Celebration" morph packs, or the "I Just Burned You For Another Buck You Stupid Sheepish Dufus" morphpack. 

How is this progress? Vicky 2 had intact morph channels - but Vicky 4 doesn't? You have to buy the base AND the morph channels seperately (CIP, for example Aiko 4). That's a beef I have with Daz - BUT - it seems that you guys selling stuff HERE would make a heck of a lot more money if you made characters for sale or as freebies (good PR) that DID NOT require the seperate purchase of someone else's morph package that YOU YOURSELF ARE NOT MAKING ONE RED CENT FROM! Duuuuhhhhh... Your promoting THEIR Morph Packages - but are THEY giving you any kick back for that? Hmmmmmmm? Duuuuuuuuuh.....

Here's an idea, if your gonna do that, make your OWN morph packages that people have to buy to make YOUR OWN characters work. That way - at least your being cruel and not stupid.

#4,  WHORE CLOTHES!!!  ALL I SEE ARE WHORE CLOTHES!!!
Do you know how much I would LOVE to see a regular police officer's uniform for Victoria 4, 3, 0r 2, that did not involve fish neck stockings and anal floss? How about a regular cable tv repair person's outfit - or a construction outfit,  or a military uniform, or a fire fighters outfit, or a sci fi astronaut outfit, or a swords and sorcery type ditty that doesn't look like stripper gear, or a costume for a vintage Linda Lovelace flick? Something that doesn't look like a wet T-shirt party?

I know that sex sells - and yes - you do want a little "sleeze and cheeze" in your work every great now and then, But there ARE limits - and the Valley Of Good Taste DOES have a well posted corporation line. 

Also - underwear. I'll bet that if these figures were REAL people, 99% of their wardrobes would be underwear. Their mothers would be proud because they would always be wearing fresh clean underwear and NEVER have to crank a washing machine. We need more JEANS - and NOT the crotch cutting mini cut off slut pants, I mean everyday slightly baggy, mediocre, straightleg jeans.

#5, More MALE FIGURE STUFF to.  Poor MICHEAL 2,3, and 4 has to get most of his hair from female hair refits - THIS IS SAD! We need eqaulity in the render room please!!!

Now I feel much better having had a good gripe. That is - until some DIM WIT out there does something else DUMB to annoy me. Thank you...
    

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#2, Why is it that every time somebody comes out with a new figure, or a new version of Poser, SUDDENLY - all that you see is the stuff for the NEW crapola in the market place and in the freebies. Is SMITH MICRO, or DAZ, or any of those other folks giving you independant merchants any income or gratuities for pushing their latest buggy, beta qauIity ugrades?

I just bought Poser 6 like yesterday, and just finally was able to buy the freakin head and body morphs for Victoria 3 and Mike 3, and now BAM! Everythings about POSER 8, ALYSON, VICKY 4.2 AND MIKE 4, MIKI (whoever that is), AND A4, AND A BUNCH OF OTHER HOOKY FIGURES THAT JUST SUDDENLY "HAPPENED"! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!!! 

Poser 6 came out four and a half years ago.  If that was just like "yesterday", you have either an incredibly slow metabolic rate or are accelerating at near light speed in a moving frame.  V4 came out three years ago.

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SLOW DOWN AND TAKE A BREATHER ALREADY!!!! Maybe MYSELF AND OTHERS  may want to still buy stuff for the G3 figures. Think of the revenue your losing!

Last time I checked, you could still buy the vast majority of the G3 stuff.  And some of it is now free.

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#3, THE SECONDARY MORPH CHANNEL PACKAGE SCAM!!!  Not ONLY do we have to buy seperate HEAD AND BODY morph packages for V4.2 and Mike4.2, but to make some of the ultra complicated characters that some of you short sighted, business saavy  NIMRODS out there want to sell or give away - we have to buy OTHER morph packs as well to make them work - like the "ELITE" morph packs, or the "Perfection" morph packs, or the "Celebration" morph packs, or the "I Just Burned You For Another Buck You Stupid Sheepish Dufus" morphpack. 

How is this progress? Vicky 2 had intact morph channels - but Vicky 4 doesn't? You have to buy the base AND the morph channels seperately (CIP, for example Aiko 4). That's a beef I have with Daz - BUT - it seems that you guys selling stuff HERE would make a heck of a lot more money if you made characters for sale or as freebies (good PR) that DID NOT require the seperate purchase of someone else's morph package that YOU YOURSELF ARE NOT MAKING ONE RED CENT FROM! Duuuuhhhhh... Your promoting THEIR Morph Packages - but are THEY giving you any kick back for that? Hmmmmmmm? Duuuuuuuuuh.....

I'm sorry, but didn't you just say something about finally buying the morph packages for V3 and M3?  The separate packages have been part of DAZ's selling since V3 was released 6 years ago.

If you have to gripe, you might want to consider doing so involving things that don't make you look like someone who has missed the better part of the last decade.

Thanks Kieth - let's cover the last first. I had to buy the morph packages to make the characters that I wanted to work - WORK!  Why do you think I'm complaining - IT'S BECAUSE I HAD TO BUY THE MORPHS!!! Not so with Vicky two. By the way there "Dustin Hoffman", do you like paying someone every time you take a dump? I SURE DON'T! BUY A CLUE!!!

Also Kieth, I am limited income - that's explains a lot about the belated purchases. But four years is actually NOT that long -  unless your young, dumb, and mentally numb. I realize that to, that to trend sucking bandwagon riders and chronic change fanatics, four years is undoubtably an eternity. Sounds to me like your the kinda guy that can't tolerate the same color of paint being on your living room wall for longer than a month.

Besides - who wants to spend $400.00 on something that you have to update to a new version every 24 months to keep up with tools and content.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/tos.php

I see a render of Poser 5 Don Quixote tilting at a nice big windmill somewhere in my future. :tt2:

I think I may just frame the OP's post.  I love it.

However, consider that "market forces" are what drive the industry.  Most of the new content is created to cash in on the wave.  I'm not against that at all - being a merchant meself - and the old content is out there if you care to look.  

DAZ et al have to drive new sales in order to survive.  Merchants tend to see their products disappear quickly after an initial flurry, so they generally rely on volume of product.  You can always take the route Blackhearted takes, though.  Create a unique and very desirable product, charge accordingly and see it stick around for a long time.  That takes skill and determination.  Several other merchants do that, too.  Billy-T springs to mind.

As for the "whore clothes"... well, obviously, that's what sells.

OK-OK-OK, allow me to re-iterate. I just got a fresh pack of smokes (I'm one of those low life, nicotine addicted chimney heads that is now as hated and despised as a bad case of mumps) - and I'm feeling much better. Sorry to dump on you like that Kieth. I'm just grumpy and muddling through the final stages of "Man'epause".

Anyway - yes your making valid points, but some of us do use figures for actual graphics work, and not for "SIMPORN", which is my beef with the "WHORE CLOTHES" concept. Mind you I fully support the further developement of "FAKE PORN" , because if it nudged out "real porn", it would actually decrease gross human exploitation. Cartoons don't have souls or an id to scar.
Still - I would like to see a lot more universally usable clothing products and freebies. I'm not saying don't deprive Melvin the geek who lives in his mom's basement of a non-damaging,
victimless outlet. I just want to see stuff that people can actually use more universally.

FYI - I'm planning on being a merchant here as soon as I build a product base. I am, however, going to make the packages as runtime simplified and backwards compatible as possible.

Linda Lovelace? I was more of a Christy Canyon fan but I seem to recall that they all wore the basic 70's era disco garb that was generally  in style at the time, before doffing them for the dénouement. 

Poserworld has lots of non-whorish clothing. Daz has a police uniform, albeit for V4, but she could be wearing fishnets and a garterbelt underneath so you get the best of both worlds.

Good points Imckenzie. However, as far as the Linda Lovelace thing. If I recall correctly there were a few interesting wardrobe choices in both "Deep Throat", and "Beyond The Green Door", so the seventies skin schlock did have it's more cheezy side - lol. Could be just a matter of perception and personal taste though. What's funky to one person is mundane to another.
I think 1980s mainstream films are better examples of the much wider use of "WHORE CLOTHES", lol.

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Anyway - yes your making valid points, but some of us do use figures for actual graphics work, and not for "SIMPORN", which is my beef with the "WHORE CLOTHES" concept. Mind you I fully support the further developement of "FAKE PORN" , because if it nudged out "real porn", it would actually decrease gross human exploitation. Cartoons don't have souls or an id to scar.
Still - I would like to see a lot more universally usable clothing products and freebies. I'm not saying don't deprive Melvin the geek who lives in his mom's basement of a non-damaging,
victimless outlet. I just want to see stuff that people can actually use more universally.

Let's wander off the reservation a bit, shall we?

Speaking as someone who hung out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much at Renderotica awhile back, I have to say that the best pr0n (at least IMHO) usually didn't involve "sexy" clothing.

Seriously - ordinary clothing works just fine, and adds a touch of reality to the image. Besides, the ultimate driver of good vs. bad pr0n isn't the clothing anyway - it's all the little details that come together.

I've lost track (and count) of the number of renders that, like the ones here, are pure crap. The 'artist' barely gets the mechanics together, and forgets about all those10^5 little details that together destroy whatever it was the 'artist' was trying to convey. Things like overly-exaggerated facial expressions, joints bent beyond the point of tearing and sloppily post-worked (if they bothered to), lighting that was flat (if you were lucky), the eyes pointed off into space somewhere, the facial expressions consisted of just the mouth (sloppily done), and the body's positioning often defied physics.

Oh, and the joints... holy sh!t. Most of the joints are not even close to being paid attention to (hint: every joint on the figure should be used if you're posing a humanoid figure - not just the big/obvious ones). Most times, a canned pose is plopped in, then a couple of joints are (maybe) tweaked --and often wrongly-- to fix the obvious collisions and hose-ups. Here's a few hints, kids:

• Hands do not rotate/twist on their own - they take the forearms along for the ride.
• Feet can and do roll from one side to another, or point outwards, inwards, etc (and they even do it when standing to help the body keep balance). Note that feet can twist, but they take the shins along for a good part of the ride, just like hands do.
• Yes the thumb joints are awkward and do weird things - but please, at least try to make them fit in! And while we're on this point, STOP with making the (finger)2 and (finger)3 joints move side to side unless you're breaking the finger! It's too painful to watch.
• female reproductive organs are analog, not binary. What I mean is, there's more than just the "shut tight as a drum" state and the "...holy crap I think the Exxon Valdez could fit in there!" state.
• same with the male organ - as the owner of a real one, I can tell you that there is no instant-on switch for the things (at least not after 30...)

...anyway, I'm meandering a bit too much here.

Back to the subject - pr0n or not, there's usually a huge diff between good and bad. Good does not require window dressing - as long as the subjects are seen to be doing something (and the whole body is geared towards expressing it), the clothes are superfluous.

Personally, when it comes to pr0n, give me conforming clothing to work with that actually moves, and I'm a happy camper. It's infinitely more sensuous to have a figure with an open collared button-down shirt, than it is to have a figure with a top designed explicitly to let the 'girls' flop around in the breeze, yanno? A pushed-up/down/sideways sweater is a hell of a lot more useful in this endeavor than a "camisole" that has two 'strategically' placed holes carved in the mesh. Ugly work jeans that open and fall are way the hell more useful in expressing the subject than even the tightest cameltoe-displaying "hot pants". Hell, 'granny panties' that actually have some movement to them are more useful than even the sexiest thong.

Anyrate, them's my 2 rubles on the subject...

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I think I may just frame the OP's post.  I love it.

I agree.
I got into an argument with this dude recently, about what I can't even remember now, but I never forget an avatar. ;-)
But that's one of the best and funniest Poser-related rants I think I've ever read here. If anything it's too tame. ;-)

Yes Mike - it was about a little quipe that you made that ticked me off. I'm over it now brother, thanks for the plus man. As I said before I'm a grumpy gus that's standing on the declining side of lifes rollercoaster ride, and the transition wasn't too long ago, lol.

Good points penguinisto...

LOL!!  it just temporarily Deactivated my Adblock Plus
to see all images
I vote Musgeys Avatar to be the funniest in the history of the internet .

Quote - I refuse to believe that there are that many combination Disney fans / former Dungeons & Dragon players on the ENTIRE planet. Enough with the fairies already!
If I see one more pair of pointed ears - I'm going to go outside and lay down in the middle of the road.

I'd just like to point out (as a former D&D player, current Pathfinder RPG GM) that fairies are nowhere near being something we find interesting enough to even think about often, let alone render.

Dragons, OTOH...

amen...I think we're suffering from 'give 'em the Razor (V3/M4/V3...etc), sell 'em the blades (Morphs, morphs plus, morphs ++, morps #...wait, that's C....never mind...;). I am truly grateful to Daz for offering the base characters free, but I do miss the 'fine tuning' I could do with earlier characters.

Throwing fuel on the fire - I think Apollo Max got a lot of it right; that's him in my avatar...;) if only the other vendors could do that....;)

Whore clothes - seconded. While I'm not averse to scantily-clad women, this isn't the 'Last Action Hero' world...;) Period clothing is nice to 'shake things up' every now and again. I gather normal clothing is a lot easier to model (heck, I'm still doing hats..;), but I still notice the more cleavage, the higher the ti..er, hits...;)

lol- Great rant :P

*"...sanitize them to Sesame Street grade ultracensored  androgeny"

*It's been a bitch of mine for years that way to many of these sites are 'Disneyfied' not for the sake of the arts (or business) but to passify that loudest of the 'new age puritians' (R).

*"I am, however, going to make the packages as runtime simplified and backwards compatible as possible"

*I applaud that big time. Basic props for the most part should be usable on versions all the way back to P4pro!!!!!!! Even clothing that dosen't have sub surface scattering should be made backwards compatible!!!!!

All of my props are useable in all versions of Poser and DS-- and I do this on purpose.

First of all - pakled made an excellent point and may have hit on a real "EUREKA" principle here. Take APOLLO MAXIMUS, I have that figure. You can make this figure male, female, hermaphroditic, nueterian, black, white, yellow, brown, red, and green. He can be from Arkansas, or Arabia - China or Charleston South Carolina - Maryland or Mars. He can be made into a wafey little asian chic JUST LIKE AIKO OR MAYA DOLL, a buxom beauty JUST LIKE VICTORIA, a dude JUST LIKE MIKE, HIRO, DAVID, G2JAMES, and the VICTORIA MALE FIGURES, or he can be a muscular giant JUST LIKE THE FREAK OR EVEN SIXUS 1's BEHEMOTH. He can be ANYONE! A SUPER POLYMORPHIC PRO GRADE MASTERPIECE!!!

 APOLLO MAXIMUS also renders superbly, realisticly, and beautifully. APOLLO MAXIMUS is like getting 3000 figures in one package. If you had enough supporting clothing, props, and materials for this figure (which is ironically the problem) - IT WOULD BE THE ONLY FIGURE THAT YOU WOULD EVER NEED - PERIOD! The clincher about this perfect all purpose actor? THE COMPLETE APOLLO MAXIMUS FIGURE IS TOTALLY FREE - NO STRINGS - THANK GOD!!!

Now herein is the puzzle of the ages. EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT APOLLO MAXIMUS. My question is - why isn't the freebie sections of these sites dedicated to almost exclusively APOLLO MAXIMUS clothing, morphs, accessories, and textures? WHY???!!!! It's a mystery like Bigfoot, UFOs, The Loch Ness Monster, and why women hate you enough to kill you just because you left the toilet seat up. WHY??!!!

Almost EVERY freebie offering that I've ever seen deals with something that you have to have already paid a fortune for. NOBODY that I know of is getting any deals under the table or off to the side from Smith Micro or DAZ for making freebies that hinge upon ownership of these pricey figures. If they WERE getting at least a discount coupon or two from these guys for doing this - then I'de say "SURE - MAKES SENSE!" - But they ARE NOT!!!

APOLLO MAXIMUS is like clay. If you want a goofy cartoony character - HE CAN BE THAT!
If you want a sexy rail thin supermodel, HE CAN BE THAT!
If you want a voluptious fat woman - HE CAN BE THAT!   If you want a terrifieing alien or monster - HE CAN BE THAT! HE CAN BE TWEAKED TO BE ANYTHING! Short, fat , thin , human, mutant, alien, male, female, inbetween, neither, any nationality, any race, any age.

So WHY don't I only use him and noone else? Simple - hardly anyone bothers to create that much supportive material for him at all! He is NOT as well supported as Victoria or the other figures - if he were, I would be willing to PAY FOR HIM, simply because he is such a versatile figure that I could tell DAZ and SMITH MICRO to go take a shower on the whole damn deal.

Ponder that one for a while!  I'm also concerned that AM might disappear all together because he's not getting the P.R. he needs to stay existant. Almost seems like an orchestrated conspiracy. This is strange in the main because APOLLO MAXIMUS technically renders EVERY OTHER FIGURE MADE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!!!!!!

Also - yes - my projects will be as backwards compatible as possible, because I'm tired of days of work being reduced to obsolete garbage overnight.

Quote - Take APOLLO MAXIMUS, I have that figure. You can make this figure male, female, hermaphroditic, nueterian, black, white, yellow, brown, red, and green. He can be from Arkansas, or Arabia - China or Charleston South Carolina - Maryland or Mars. He can be made into a wafey little asian chic JUST LIKE AIKO OR MAYA DOLL, a buxom beauty JUST LIKE VICTORIA, a dude JUST LIKE MIKE, HIRO, DAVID, G2JAMES, and the VICTORIA MALE FIGURES, or he can be a muscular giant JUST LIKE THE FREAK OR EVEN SIXUS 1's BEHEMOTH. He can be ANYONE! A SUPER POLYMORPHIC PRO GRADE MASTERPIECE!!!

 APOLLO MAXIMUS also renders superbly, realisticly, and beautifully. APOLLO MAXIMUS is like getting 3000 figures in one package. If you had enough supporting clothing, props, and materials for this figure (which is ironically the problem) - IT WOULD BE THE ONLY FIGURE THAT YOU WOULD EVER NEED - PERIOD! The clincher about this perfect all purpose actor? THE COMPLETE APOLLO MAXIMUS FIGURE IS TOTALLY FREE - NO STRINGS - THANK GOD!!!

Now herein is the puzzle of the ages. EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT APOLLO MAXIMUS. My question is - why isn't the freebie sections of these sites dedicated to almost exclusively APOLLO MAXIMUS clothing, morphs, accessories, and textures? WHY???!!!! I.

Because no one buys Real estate in Afghanistan.

Cheers

Huh?...No-one buys real estate in AFGANISTAN?...SEE - THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN PROBLEMS - TOO MANY GLUE SNIFFERS!!! Lmao :lol:

Quote - Thanks Kieth - let's cover the last first. I had to buy the morph packages to make the characters that I wanted to work - WORK!  Why do you think I'm complaining - IT'S BECAUSE I HAD TO BUY THE MORPHS!!! Not so with Vicky two. By the way there "Dustin Hoffman", do you like paying someone every time you take a dump? I SURE DON'T! BUY A CLUE!!!

Sorry but you are completely forgetting the Vicky  2 in her day was ~$60 while Vicky 3 with head and body morphs and texture was about ~$39 or maybe ~$49 (I payed less due to Platinum club discounts and there may have been a discount for upgrading).  Vicky 3 actually cost less and you had to option to only get what you wanted.

I share your disappointment about all of the new marginal quality BS fairy characters that are coming out, and all of the time and effort the merchants are expending on something I guarantee I'll never buy. But that's their choice and business decissions, and it's none of my business.

As to clothing for V4 that's not slutty, try 9MBi.com. The best clothing out there for a non-slutty Vicky.

There's quite a bit of M4 clothing over at Poserworld.com with more coming all the time. 

The reason no one supports Apollo has to do both with the figure being flakey and with politics directed toward the creator (who pissed a lot of people off a few years back.) Don't look for much more to come that not from Anton's site.

Good Luck!

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This is strange in the main because APOLLO MAXIMUS technically renders EVERY OTHER FIGURE MADE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!!!!!!

Not true, not when you look at it from a technical standpoint. All that supermorph/cross-character stuff, such as turning V3/4 into a dude or a superfreak, the whole Unimesh idea, morphing any figure too much beyond what it was designed as creates serious problems with textures and even rigging. Problems that can be somewhat fixed by the developer, but not really by the end user, particularly not the typical point'n'click Poserite.

The best figures are the ones  that were completely designed to be one thing, and developed as such.

That's just my opinion on the whole deal and definitely not an anti-Apollo or anti-Anton statement.

DAZ has gone quite a ways towards helping to spread this myth that all characters should be able to be created equal, with their uni-mesh snowjob, and the Poserverse gets less and less original with each year,largely due to DAZ' efforts to pwn it with their overly complex, yet overly simplified figures that they try to pass off as universally interchangeable.

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Not true, not when you look at it from a technical standpoint. All that supermorph/cross-character stuff, such as turning V3/4 into a dude or a superfreak, the whole Unimesh idea, morphing any figure too much beyond what it was designed as creates serious problems with textures and even rigging. Problems that can be somewhat fixed by the developer, but not really by the end user, particularly not the typical point'n'click Poserite.

The best figures are the ones  that were completely designed to be one thing, and developed as such.

DAZ has gone quite a ways towards helping to spread this myth that all characters should be able to be created equal, with their uni-mesh snowjob, and the Poserverse gets less and less original with each year,largely due to DAZ' efforts to pwn it with their overly complex, yet overly simplified figures that they try to pass off as universally interchangeable.

Quoted for Absolute Agreement!!
to me every Vicky "male morph" has always looked like some bizarre sex change operation gone horribly wrong.
I am still amazed that some people actually  try to $sell$  a V4 "male morph"
when there is a completely Viable  FREE male in the form of the M4 Base.

Cheers

To the OP, I'd like to echo the idea of PoserWorld.  There's a TON of good Generation 3 (and Gen 1 and 2...as well as Poser 4 Female and Male) stuff over there.  If you haven't already checked it out, I'd dare say you'd be in hog-heaven when you did!  Plus, that's where a lot of the "normal clothing" for Poser figures lives.  I think PoserWorld is one of the best deals out there.  That plus a few figure licenses Crossdresser and you've got a treasure-trove of stuff.

Rant On! I learn much more about software from a a good rant and the resulting thread. I learn the good, bad and workarounds that you cant find in the manual or book at any price. a good rant......priceless. the more emotional the better!
Thanks for sharing.
Steven

Not ONLY do we have to buy seperate HEAD AND BODY morph packages for V4.2 and Mike4.2
@Mugsey: I am still poser newbie. Could we create head morph for V4.2 with poser morph tool or magnet and then sell them?

imagination304: Actually dude I would create a seperate FREE version of a deluxe morph pak for the GEN4 figures that effectively replaces DAZ's commercial offering if I could, but I don't want to get the crap sued out of me. It's a tantalizing notion though.

Creatingimages: I had to rant tonight because it was just building up too much. Thank you for understanding.

To those who echoed that I should check out POSER WORLD - I am indeed going to see about a subscription - seems like just the ticket for now.

To MIKEJ and WOLF359: The Apollo Maximus figure is not what you describe - as a static figure that get's warped unnaturally beyond it's design limitations - it's DESIGNED to be a polymorphic seed figure for multiple forms. It cannot be compared to the Victoria male figures in that regard.

To chriscox: Vicky2 and V3 were about the same price when they first came out straight forward with no discounts. Sorry...

Mikej: No Mike - the BEST figures are the ones that come complete - where you don't have to buy four different accessory packages to create halfway believeable characters. You know - the one's that ALREADY have morph channels. Apollo 1 - Vicky 0...

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To MIKEJ and WOLF359: The Apollo Maximus figure is not what you describe - as a static figure that get's warped unnaturally beyond it's design limitations - it's DESIGNED to be a polymorphic seed figure for multiple forms. It cannot be compared to the Victoria male figures in that regard.

Well I'm not going to argue with you on the technicalities of the Apollo Maximus mesh, since I don't think I have it, but I was speaking in more general terms. It may very well be that it was designed to be many different figures, but I don't care what the mesh is like, if you deform it too much in any direction you will have texture stretching/pinching/warping and you will change the poly flow in ways that could negatively affect its joints.

Nothing that can't be fixed mostly by someone who knows wshat he's doing, but I did also mention the "average point'n'click" Poser user. Most have no idea how to deal with the myriad of problems that can result from over morphing, and don't even notice there's a problem. One quick look through the Poser gallery on any given day will prove that. ;-)

Quote - imagination304: Actually dude I would create a seperate FREE version of a deluxe morph pak for the GEN4 figures that effectively replaces DAZ's commercial offering if I could, but I don't want to get the crap sued out of me. It's a tantalizing notion though.

From what I understand...as long as you don't use any of DAZ's morphs in any way (including those in the base) and you don't name your morphs the same as any of theirs (to be confusing), I think you can create your own custom morph pack (using Zbrush or the Poser morph tool or modo or whatever) and redistribute it.  You can check with DAZ but I'd be shocked if you can't.  RNDA has their own Ultimate Morphs. 

But, I'm not sure if the V4 or M4 BASE come with the FBM PBM empty channels or not, though.  If not, it would have to be supplied as something like Poser PMDs.

andolaurina. I wouldn't risk it anyway - to many "ifs, ands, and buts", but the suggestion is appreciated.

Qoute: "I'm not sure if the V4 or M4 BASE come with the FBM PBM empty channels or not, though.  If not, it would have to be supplied as something like Poser PMDs."

See - that's why I'm SOooooo p!ssed about this whole thing with the DAZ characters.
I'm glad that quite a few people had the foresight to create character morphs for the G4 unimesh figures that DO NOT require the special "++morph packs". I'm going to create figures myself, probably using the "MAKEHUMAN" free figure building app, that has dimensions that will accomodate the clothing and accessories made for the Victoria and Mike figures, or, I'll make clothes for them myself. I don't HATE DAZ, I don't want anybody to think that because they do offer people breaks and good stuff every great now and then - but the seperate morph pack requirement thing, and selling base figures with no channels (primarily Aiko4 right now) has me greatly disillusioned with them at this point.

 Just a reminder folks, please use the language flags if you're going to swear AT ALL. 

Thanks,

Jeni

 Of course, this discounts how OOOOGLY the G4 characters truly are IMHO.

Mugsey, I think you really need to take a deep breath and understand that this is, and has always been, a VERY expensive hobby. As with most other things in this world, you get, pretty much, what you pay for. Free is free for a good reason. Investment in something you truly think is useful is worth the asking price.

Take it from one who's spent over $7000 on Poser related materials. People at my site ask me how I get the results I get when their's look poor by comparison. It's not that I'm a great artist... it's gigo. They use garbage and I don't.

This is not to say that all freebees are garbage. There are many quality artists like trekkiegirl who offer freebees that are well worth having, but my point is, you have to have some quality major items to start with if you want quality outcomes from your renders.

My $.02

I can't look at any more Halloween related content LOL!!

As far as the other content you ranted about I gave up long ago saying anything about it or making suggestions. It seems the more people rant about it the more that type of stuff ends up in the marketplaces. I figured it is easier to be happy when you find something not related to your rant about ho clothing as such.

There are many ho clothes and fairy outfits that with some other textures will look like everyday clothing. The best thing to do is buy stuff you know you're going to use over and over becoming a content ho will really break your wallet and fill up your hard drive. There are a lot of great freebie items that are very high in quality and very nice to use. Just because you may buy content from the market places doesn't always mean it's of good quality not all of it is.

I don't know if you are just starting out with the hobby but understand it takes time and practice to make pretty pictures, getting to know the programs in and our and what they can do and I don't care who says different. Above all take it slow don't try to keep up with the Jone's it took me years to amass the library of content and figures I have. Buy what you can afford and just save for what you want believe it ain't going no where especially in the case of Daz content.

Nothing is free in this low world ... If you buy a car and want the clim you paid more ... You want a phone you need a contrat ... You want cook you need a kitchen ... etc etc etc

Quote - Huh?...No-one buys real estate in AFGANISTAN?...SEE - THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN PROBLEMS - TOO MANY GLUE SNIFFERS!!! Lmao :lol:

Actually, his point was pretty simple: You don't buy stuff that you can't really use. You mentioned it yourself - AM doesn't have much in the way of clothing. It's a damned solid mesh, but w/o accessories (or a shitload of time in Wardrobe Wizard), it's not all that useful by itself.

Sorta like buying an airplane, then discovering that you have to build your own wings and engine for it.

 Yes, the learning curve on Poser is steep enough without having to learn modeling as well to make your own content. I, for one, am grateful that the modelers are out there doing something I'm not capable of doing myself, and I'm more than willing to pay them to do it so I can get on with creating my images!!!!!

"...it would actually decrease gross human exploitation."

Well, your knowledge of genre fashion seems to suggest that you've watched enough - over two decades no less - which begs the question: Was the exploitation that well disguised or were your higher cerebral functions dulled by the 'er lower ones? At any rate it would make an alternative to the classic Playboy gambit, to wit, 'I only watch for the clothes.' :-) 

Apollo languishes because, well, because he is a he, his mutability notwithstanding. I can (almost) guarantee that his rumored female counterpart (Venus, Diana, whatever) would be much more popular. Aphrodite - good, Hermaphrodite  - bad. The fact that female figures are much more popular, even though Poser probably has more female users than many 3D applications, underlines a basic fact IMO, Barbie = more popular than Ken. Assuming those female users purchase a not insignificant amount of clothing, I suspect that a number of them are buying 'whore' clothes as well. Given the growth of the MILF/Cougar phenomenon, I'd bet that even a lot of grannies have ditched their eponymous panties in favor of thongs. 

Quote - Vicky  2 in her day was ~$60 while Vicky 3 with head and body morphs...

Thing is, you only paid once - there was a metric ton of free clothing, textures, and etc - and you could build your own back then, no sweat. Also, Vicky 2 hung around and had widespread support for what, 2-3 years or more? Nowadays, building one's own accessories requires a lot more work, time, patience, and effort... and there's likely a new figure coming down the pike within the next few months nowadays.

==

Quote - The reason no one supports Apollo has to do both with the figure being flakey and with politics directed toward the creator (who pissed a lot of people off a few years back.) Don't look for much more to come that not from Anton's site.

Seriously? Most of that should've been dead and buried by now. If Anton wants to reform himself, nobody's stopping him.

...and honestly, the mesh is still rock-solid, no matter what you may or may not think of the maker.

==

Quote - All that supermorph/cross-character stuff, such as turning V3/4 into a dude or a superfreak, the whole Unimesh idea, morphing any figure too much beyond what it was designed as creates serious problems with textures and even rigging. Problems that can be somewhat fixed by the developer, but not really by the end user, particularly not the typical point'n'click Poserite.

Agreed, perfectly... OTOH, some of them managed to do okay in spite of it (A3 as a ferinstance - though the leg bends could use a lot of help...)

FWIW, the V3 Male morph was pretty cool, and very useful. Pity there was pretty much no clothing for it.

Quote -
The best figures are the ones  that were completely designed to be one thing, and developed as such.

See also Terai Yuki. Best damned figure I've ever seen come down the pike, IMHO.

There is a danger that the figure becomes too limited, or "typecast" for lack of a better term. But that can be overcome with the right morphs.

"Seriously? Most of that should've been dead and buried by now. If Anton wants to reform himself, nobody's stopping him." 

Try posing the hands. The rigging still sucks.

I see...I should have seen the 'don't go there' signs for AM, and left it at that...;)

I guess the point was, that AM is (still) as versatile being free as all the bells and whistles in M/A/V/H 1-4. I don't pose hands often, perhaps that's why I haven't noticed...;)

still, bein' the po' boy I am, it's either free, or I make it for the pic...;)

 (sorry couldn't be helped)

AAAaaaahhhh - now AKURA that was just mean, lmao:lol:

lmckenzie: I have long been a fan of "B MOVIES" - cinematic cultural darkhorses. "Deep Throat" and "Beyond The Green Door" were in their time merely 2nd grade skin schlock, but they are now considered cult classics. I also know about Citizen Kain, Spider Babies, Plan 9 From Outer Space, Night Of The Living Dead, Swamp Girl, The Tingler, and I'm real big on Hammer Films. Just because I'm aware of a few adult titles, and have SEEN them, doesn't make me a member of the sticky trench coat crowd.

Also - I'm in my forties, and am all for grannies in thongs, provided that they aren't in their nineties and look like the anorexic versions of one of the dancing California raisins - but I'm not into using the MILF term to describe ladies. Must be the redundant scrapings of trace puritanism still left in the cake batter bowl of my superego, lol.

To PENGUINISTO: about AM - I agree completely brother, but don't you find it strange that nobody has exploited this figure any more than they have?  I think it's probably because they really don't know it's capabilities - because if they did, and if they weren't too lazy to play with the dials, they'd find out that AM isn't just one cookie cutter character, but an entire cast!
If there were more materials for it - like I said before - then personal preferences aside and from a purely practical standpoint - why would you need any other character figures with the exception of animals or non-human figures?
Heck maybe you know - but it sure puzzles the crapola outta me. An earlier poster called it (AM) "flaky", but it seems pretty kosher to me. How can it be flaky when it can be made to be anything you want to?

Also - I must not have been frequenting the site all that much when the dreaded "Anton Incident" - whatever that was - took place, so that's a mystery to me. Unless they found out that the guy was the Antichrist or something, I couldn't imagine how that would affect EVERYONE who visits Rendo for Poser content. Seems like that (whatever it was) would involve only a select circle of individuals, and couldn't possible kill appeal for the AM figure net wide.

don't worry about it, muggs.  some of these guys didn't like anton.  nobody even remembers that anymore.  very minor contretemps IMVHO.  they're alot nicer and laid-back nowadays. :lol:

p.s. ye forgot one gripe - my theory that texture makers buy the cute girl fotos (aneta) from 3d.sk or wherever they sell those, then resell her again and again with various alterations.  I can't prove it cuz I ain't bought all known textures, but it would be an interesting experiment to line 'em all up in photoshop.

RORRLOL*, Mugsy, you are pretty good at this.  --reminds me of some standup routines, only more humor in yours.  You really got us.

*Roll'ng on rug really laughing out loud. 

Quote - ...but don't you find it strange that nobody has exploited this figure any more than they have?

Not really - merchies tend to latch onto what they think is the best bang-for-buck figures and concentrate on them.

It's like software. OSX is technically superior to Windows, and Linux is technically superior to both (at least in my opinion). OTOH, Windows is the most widely used, so a small software shop usually starts writing for it first. shrug

AH HAAAAAAA!  TO PENGUINISTO:   (in the voice of a meak chinese lad) "Thank you master, grasshoppa learn much at temple today asai asai". Lol.  SOOoooooo...It's all abou P.R.? Hmmmmmmmm...interesting...

Miss Nancy:  Yeah - I know about the "clique" mentality well Miss Nancy, I myself sat at the "geeks" table in high school while the football team sat together in the middle of the cafeteria and got served by the cheerleaders as if these girls were Tavern Wenches or something.
I don't know Anton, I don't really know the people who seem to despise his very aroma either, and seeing as how this petty little despute doesn't involve me in any qauntumly infitesimal way - I really could not give a flying Hoo Hah either way period. All I know is that the AM figure is a good figure.

OH - Noooooo - I hope that I haven't misled a lot of people into thinking that I worship the darn thing like bowing to a buhdda or anything - It, like every other figure - has it's faults for sure, but it is - to a certain extent - a revolutionary thing as far as figures go. If it were developed a little further, and supported a tad bit better, then hey - GUESS WHAT - no more Vicky, Mike, Stephanie "petite", Miki, Miko, David, Hiro, Maya, Dolly, "Teri Yaki - or whatever", Minnie, Mil Kids, Mil Girls, Mil Teens, Mil Pre Teens, Aiko, G2 / G3 James or Jessie, Larry, Curley, or Moe - THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE!!! (Cue the theme song from "The Highlander").

Oh and Miss Nancy - I have also seen a lot of "incidental identicalities" in the texture packages (mostly from just the posted ad images) - so I get your point.

"scrapings of trace puritanism still left in the cake batter bowl of my superego, lol." 

Too much Freudian symbolism for me :-)  BTW trench coats went out with the VCR.

lmckenzie: Meeeeeoooowwwwww, Phst Phst, Meeeeeeeeeooooowwwwwww, lmao.

Just for the hell of it.

#1 rabid Faerie fans have been around for a lot longer than D&D or Disney, and there have always seemed to be people fascinated with them, and wanting to do pictures of them en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_fairies why? IDK

#2 the market hates a vacuum, new figure means new opportunity to create new products for the figure that people will want because they have the figure but have no content for the figure yet. the creator of the figure doesn't have to pay merchants to support their figure because the merchants know that fact. and on your second point in that question the time frame, its pretty spread out as others have alluded there have been two versions of poser since P6 (3 if you count Poser Pro)

#3 The secondary morph package thing? Well that started out based in part on people's desire to have more and more morphs in a figure, but complaining that the figures have gotten too bloated, you yourself champion the one figure fits all concept well that means more morphs generally. and with V2 there was no way to expand the figure beyond it's base morphs easily. Yes there were aftermarket morphs and they could be loaded with Morph Manager and by other means but it wasnt a simple one click solution (Don't get me stared on people's dependence on one click solutions). as far as why people sell characters based on those prepackaged morph channels rather than create their own. the answer is simple, conforming clothing support, if you use stock morphs than more clothing will fit your character and more people will buy the character, yes there are a number of merchants like Blackhearted who create their own character morphs from scratch, but try to find clothing that will fit those characters and you will see why everyone isn't doing it. That's not to say this will always be true, Morph transfer to clothing has come a long way since the Tailor. Dimension3Ds Morphing Clothes is a perfect example of how far its come. also we have dynamic clothing which doesn't have to be concerned with morphs.

#4 if you are on the internet and don't realize that sex sells now than I don't know what to tell you. and btw yes there is a realistic Police Uniform for V4, I created it. www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/real-world-heroes I like doing realistic clothing, but I can tell you that it's not as lucrative as the "Whore Clothes" which is why you see so many of them and less of the realistic stuff.

#5 I'm working on it. (;  But I also like to do the female stuff. and again, the female stuff sells better so guess what most merchants focus on?