Cheers

Attached Link: http://images.google.com/images?q=logo

See also -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution

 I still think this goes to the very heart of why poser users use poser.
you make a picture and unless you have a freebie with rendering restrictions, your render is yours and you should be able to do what you like with it.  If a merchant wants to put restrictions, sure he can (but if people realize this it will probably reduce his sales), but when you buy stuff from daz and renderosity you expect to be able to use your render for anything.  well I always thought so.  Is this not true then?
love esther

Quote - ... but when you buy stuff from daz and renderosity you expect to be able to use your render for anything.  well I always thought so.  Is this not true then?

There's a difference between between "forbidden by the license" and "not suitable".

Quote -     Edit: to add language filter. ( I did say fuck after all)

Isn't that Brit slang for "Hello, weather's great, how are you, the kids are doing well in school, how's the Mum, want to get together for dinner this weekend"?:biggrin:

 quote
There's a difference between between "forbidden by the license" and "not suitable".

You mean like if I wanted to make V3 do naughty things with M4?

interesting discussion. On a side note, some of you may "own" a Sanctum Arts' model and not even know it. Iirc Poser 6 included the "Robot Cat" as a "stock model".

Quote - interesting discussion. On a side note, some of you may "own" a Sanctum Arts model and not even know it. Iirc Poser 6 included the "Robot Cat" as a "stock model".

That's different besides SA has no say on how things can be used that are included in poser.

 I want to be able to use my renders for anything.  I actually don't really want to put V3 and M4 together like that, but I wan the freedom to do any sort of render for any purpose. 
Otherwise we are saying "you can draw a logo yourself and use it for a logo, but don't render one from premade meshes, as this isn't really your art at all you know."
Love esther

Quote -
Otherwise we are saying "you can draw a logo yourself and use it for a logo, but don't render one from premade meshes, as this isn't really your art at all you know."

So what's wrong with that? It isn't "your art at all", you know. That's the bottom line, isn't it? Why should one expect to be able to use someone else's creation as a straight-up logo design?

Quote -
I want to be able to use my renders for anything.  I actually don't really want to put V3 and M4 together like that, but I wan the freedom to do any sort of render for any purpose.

Well I want to win the lottery, become World Dictator and have a harem, but that's not likely to happen, and just wanting something doesn't make it so...

And if anyone wants to do logos or anything else in that sort of copyright zone, probably they should learn how to make all their own original content, or just do something else.

I guess the bottom line is you just have to read the EULA and choose to either go along with it or don't buy the product in question. Caveat emptor and all that.

Quote -  I want to be able to use my renders for anything.  I actually don't really want to put V3 and M4 together like that, but I wan the freedom to do any sort of render for any purpose. 
Otherwise we are saying "you can draw a logo yourself and use it for a logo, but don't render one from premade meshes, as this isn't really your art at all you know."
Love esther

esther "I wan the freedom to do any sort of render for any purpose."

well - you can't.  It depends.  When doing commercial work it depends on the EULA of the product and what the client needs and demands.  If the client wants you to give them all working files, photoshop, lightwave, meshes, textures etc. when done with the project then your out of luck cause almost all poser products EULA is no redistribution of the mesh.

Now a client can buy the same products you are using, I've done this in the past for clients, I made a list of all products and the client bought them and I gave them all my working files but did not redistribute anything as the client had the poser products used.

book covers or CD covers usually are just renders and you can do commercial renders and distribute the images but again it depends on the clients specs when doing the job.

I did a CD cover for a band and in my contract I put that they were only allowed to use the images I provided for CD productions.  When the band went to make t-shirts and put the images of the CD cover as their logo then we had big problems.  Both with my contract useage and with poser EULA agreements for the products that I used.  Band ended up going in another direction due to the hassle of rights and I didn't get any more work from them.

When you do commercial works of art there are all kinds of sticky situations you end up in.  Do you own the rights to the image or does the client of the book cover?  Can you make posters after the client has paid for the cover etc.  All that comes under your contract with the clients.

the majority of poser users do not do commercial works and those that do read all the fine print of EULA and agreements of products to make sure they are covered when using poser products.

for commercial renders being sold or doing work for a client almost all poser products allow some form of this as long as you don't sell exclusive rights as you aren't the copyright holder.

that's why the Sanctum Art's EULA topic as well as the ApolloMax EULA come up from time to time.  But most don't read the Daz3D EULA and it covers similar topics in that agreement for every Daz3D product sold.

this is why I don't do much commercial work anymore, I hate clients and their demands!!!  it always sounds great to make $800 on a job until all my time gets exhausted making sure all the legal stuff is done properly and in the end with time of producing the job I end up at the end of the day with $50 in my pocket for 2 weeks of work.  Rarely worth it to me.

This ENTIRE THREAD can be summed up with one simple statement.....

Qoute "DON'T DOWNLOAD OR BUY ANYTHING FROM PRICKS (as in "Oh-I pricked my finger!" Lol. :lol: )!" Unqoute.

Notice that it was a generalized warning - and I never mentioned any names (wink wink).

If your renders aren't yours - why do them?

#1, READ LICENSES! If your unsure about what the license is saying - then delete and swear off the product, ask for a refund if they offer them, or email the product author and ask questions.

#2, Word of mouth advertising (or word of "text" advertising) is everything. Draw your own conclusions.

#3, Not only steer clear of the tyrannically capitolist licenses that tell you that you can't use a product commercially even if you bought it, but also the COPY LEFT junk to!
If you create something with a copyleft product, then your work is instantly a "no rights work".
You can never sell or profit from anything that you make with a copyleft license because the derivatives clause is universal! Also watch out for the "GNU / GPL" crapola - I HATE that ughly OX head! Lol :lol:. Examine CC (Creative Commons) and GNU licenses CAREFULLY!

#4, LOOK UP COPYRIGHT LAW!  A lot of people either claim copyright to things that under the law they have no right to period (non - derivative raw public domain works / images of government officials, etc., Or they ILLEGALLY deny users "fair use" exceptions (which denieing someone fair use exceptions to use of your product is actually a FEDERAL CRIME under U.S. statutes - TITLES 13 to 17, UNITED STATES COPYRIGHT LAW - COPYRIGHT FRAUD!!!.)).
Companies have gotten into a lot of trouble, and have had to pay federal fines over copyright fraud.

OH - and by the way, if you proclaim a work that you've created as PUBLIC DOMAIN - but still attatch a NON-COMMERCIAL USE clause to it -

THEN YOU ARE COMMITTING COPYRIGHT FRAUD!!!!

Because once you proclaim a work as "PUBLIC DOMAIN", you have in essence abandoned any and all rights that you have to that work PERIOD - and you have declared it as PUBLIC PROPERTY! ...YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TO!!!

Under U.S. LAW, Just as a work is automatically copyrighted to it's creator once it's created, it's also automatically and irrevocably public domain once the creator declares it so, and any "non-commercial use" clause that you might stick on the end of that declaration doesn't mean diddly sqaut and will not hold up in court unless your Microsoft, Sony, Time Warner, Disneyco, or somebody else who can grease a politicians palm or dish out shady payola or scary poverty threats. Lol.

My only gripe with the VAP armour is the damn reflection maps - takes forever to get rid of 'em (an the specular settings) in Vue.
Other than that I've never had any problems with SA

SOME POPULAR LICENSES THAT YOU SHOULD READ CAREFULLY AND BE VERY WARY OF:

#1, M.I.T.

#2, GNU / GPL

#3, CREATIVE COMMONS COPY LEFT, SHARE ALIKE, AND SHARE ALIKE / ATTRIBUTION.

#4, THE "SOME RIGHTS RESERVED" LICENSES (They often have some funky fine print snags that'll get you!)

#5, OSL / OPEN SOURCE:  Contrary to popular belief - these are NOT public domain grants.
 Often OSL licenses will contain VERY sticky clauses that could end up costing you dearly. Don't avoid them - BUT READ THEM CAREFULLY!

#6, "Academic / Educational Use Only:
Occasionally you will find products or "freeware" that is labelled "PUBLIC DOMAIN" - but erroniously also carry a "FOR EDUCATIONAL - NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY" clause - which is of course copyright fraud, and thus illegal. HOWEVER - if you choose to use them (even though they have been PUBLICLY PROCLAIMED / DECLARED AS PUBLIC DOMAIN), then be prepared to possibly defend your position legally (You would of course more than likely win your argument - but it's a hassle best avoided anyway!).

ALSO - if you email a product author / creator about the use of his or her product - and they give you permission to use the product commercially - then SAVE YOUR EMAIL CORRESPONDENCES BOTH DIGITALLY, AND ON PAPER PRINT OUTS!!! - Burn the email resonses onto a disk because they are THE SAME AS A LICENSE AND LEGALLY BINDING!!!

An author - if they are unscrupulous - which is not at all rare - may give you permission in private emails, but then attempt to sue your butt off when you follow through and start marketing your derivative work. And also - don't be afraid to clarify the royalty free staus of the product also. 

I don't see this thread going in any productive direction any more. 
Locking this, before it becomes even worse.