I bought Poser a year ago with very ambitious ideas in mind. I didn't know anyone else who had it, so I based my purchase decision on the publicity material. These are the things I learned during the past year:

1.  It is not easy. No matter how often they say it in the advertisements, it is not easy. With dedicated effort it has taken me a year to acquire a modicum of skill.

2.  The computer specs in the promotional material are not enough to give you a trouble-free Poser experience. You are going to have to upgrade your computer, probably again and again.

3.  It "kind of" works. The pictures you see in promotional renders are not what you will be producing Not for a very long time.. The program falls over a lot, and you won't understand why.. Conforming clothes have poke-throughts and if your computer is not up to it, forget about fixing them with the morphing tool. The morphing tool needs a really fast computer. Dynamic clothes need lots and lots of patience, because finding the right parameters settings for a given simulation is largely a matter of trial and error.

4.  Having bought Poser and committed some time to it, you are going to find that there are a number of other things you desperately want. PhilC's OBJ2CR2 utility saved my relationship with Poser for me. I even use it to fix stuff I bought. I don't even want to think about the money I have spent on clothes, and skins, and objects. Thank heaven for ShareCG and the free stuff section here.

5.  Having acquired the content, you are going to need storage, lots of it. External hard drives to the rescue.

6.  The documentation that came with the program is only starting to make sense now. Written by experts for experts, it went over my head.

So here I am. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for when I bought the program. My ambitious plans have been scaled down, and scaled down again. But I am still at it, and still learning.

Whilst all you said about the programme is true, what Poser opens up as potential for creativity grows exponentially as your skills grow. I've been doing Poser since version 6, but have only really been learning some of the more complex aspects (like the material room) in the last few years. I've found that the more time I spend with it, the more exciting it becomes because as new aspects of Poser become less nebulous, your renders improve and your independence from the MarketPlace increases.
I agree: PhilC's Obj2Cr2 is amazing. So is Dimension3D's Poser File Editor and Morphing Clothes. Those two utilities have done more to make existing clothing that never behaved right suddenly do what you want it to do.
And then, this forum. You could literally spend months on here  - - or longer - - and not even scratch the surface of what all there is to learn about this programme. Just doing materials and lighting and textures and shaders! wow... I come home from work and check my Poser threads first for new gems from the greats.

No, Poser is not easy. Not if you want to do quality artwork. That's just classic marketing: "We have a Make-Art button!" ... however, when you finally render that image that takes your breath away and you think: "wow, I did that!" then you realise the effort and time (and dollars) and snooping around here on the boards has been worth it.

Wow. I've gotten only a modicum of skill since Poser 4. Not sure what that says about me...lol.

And no, it ain't easy, but I do love those small, elusive eureka moments ;o). It's like any other hobby...do it because you like it but not because it's easy. If it were easy, you'd get bored with it in no time. Depending on the skill, I tend to get bored once I think I've mastered it. With Poser, that day will probably never come, therefore I don't get bored...hehe.

Laurie

Oh, believe me, I have been here just about every day. I should have mentioned that. Without this forum I would have turned tail and run, especially since the CP forum closed. The shaders are a mystery still, because the math is so challenging to me.

Yes, the potential for creativity is what keeps me going.
 
It irks me though, when I see the Poser 8 ads: "Easily create 3d ...etc." That is just a lie, classic marketing or not.  If they mentioned realising your creative fantasies, challenging yourself and having a small personal triumph every day, that would be true.

That was very well put, Laurie. Oh, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that I've actually mastered anything, either! Far from it. That's why I started the Nodes for Dummies thread, and whilst I've had a lot of exposure to material room and shaders since then, creating a shader like BagginsBill does, in his head -- because he knows how to say "Physical Property of x" in Poser's language, mathematics -- is still out of my reach. It will come eventually, because I'm like a dog with a bone... which is my point.
With Poser, you really gotta wanna... Poser isn't giving anything away for free.

Remember, though..... those ads are partly aimed at commercial artists who build TV ads for weight loss pills, courtroom simulations, etc.  And Poser has always been comparatively easy to use for those purposes.  It has always included a few pre-dressed models and a set of standard poses, and the more recent versions have included a pretty good set of props.

Quote - Oh, believe me, I have been here just about every day. I should have mentioned that. Without this forum I would have turned tail and run, especially since the CP forum closed. The shaders are a mystery still, because the math is so challenging to me.

Just a heads-up... I'm not going to talk out of school, but there's very interesting stuff being developed for people who would like to take making materials to an art-form. Yes, it will involve maths, but remember, no one gets left behind, here. All questions are valid.

The problem with the manuals is that the authors themselves don't understand the material room or the renderer or any of that part of Poser. That's why they show you quietly how to hook up a ImageMap node to the diffuse_color channel on PoserSurface and load a picture into the Image_Source channel of that node. Voila, a texture. The rest of it is all black magic to those writers and, indeed, to most Poser people. Yet, there are those who do understand how it is meant to work and how to create really awesome shaders using mathematics. And on here, they are happy to share it with you. Isn't that neat???

Here's what you do, Nanette. Have a read of threads that talk about materials (shaders and like that). When you come to a point where you don't understand anymore, do a forum search first, but then if you're still stumped don't hesitate to ask. And if something is still unclear to you, ask until it IS clear to you.

I'm convinced making materials has got to be one of the most exciting aspects of Poser. Like water, for instance. Want real water??
www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php
And that's just a rough idea of what's available.

Playing with the shaders is my favorite only next to morphing ;o). I'll check out that thread RobynsVeil, thanks! :o).

It's about time I played with nodes and actually had a clue as to what I was doing...lol.

Laurie

 Well, I sort of disagree with #1, compared to most 3D software packages, it IS very easy, you can get results within the first minutes you open the program. Sure, you won't be rendering anything to be proud of right away, but that's much more than you can achieve with 3DSMax, Maya or Blender (to name the few I've ever worked with).

One of the very first things I read on these forums when I first picked up Poser about a year and a half ago was someone (might have been Bagginsbill) saying that it takes about two and a half years to be fluent in Poser.  I took that to heart, took things one day at a time, and I know that one day I'll be comfortably competent in the advanced features.

Yup, the year before Poser was the year of Blender for me. Many nights figuring out that interface.  At least I can do some mesh modelling which has been useful for Poser.  Blender, it must be said, has never crashed on me, not once.

I have no intention of giving up on Poser. By now the investment (in time and money) is too great. I never wanted to make high art with it, just some useful pictures. It wasn't intended to be a hobby, I have a work-related use for the images. Nobody is pushing me, I run my own business, but I feel as if I have missed my personal deadline by a long way.

Let me just say it was the kind of experience that "builds character".

yes, it took 6 months to learn poser 4 in 90% detail and it will take 3 years to learn poser 8 ~ 90% IMVHO. especially if they add more features to FFRender, e.g. caustics.  i agree with ock about weight-loss ads (I've seen 'em and I did one (don't ask :lol: )), illustrators and forensics, but main market for poser is hobbyists and vendors who sell poser items to hobbyists for use in gallery renders here and at the other poser sites.

I started with Poser 6, and now have only Poser 7. And, yes, the Poser manual is... junk. It has a few tips a newbie can decipher, but otherwise, only use it if you get stuck with finding a solution. Otherwise, it just gives one a headache.

And, yes, Poser is more difficult than load, point, render. It takes time. The time I've invested in Poser has ruined me for other programs. I own Carrara 6, and would love to use it, but the gui is foreign to this Poser user, and the language/glossary is also weird. I've managed to learn much of Poser Materials, so trying to figure out C6's shader room is daunting, and I loathe their slide tools and posing tools.

As far as the Material Room -- here's what this non-mathmatically inclined person does -- try it out, plug it in and see if it work :)  I've taken away a ton of info from threads here and at RDNA from Bagginsbill and the like, but when the math comes in, my brain goes dark. BUT, I've managed to pick up basic functions, and the rest is trial and error. And most times, it works to my advantage, or I discover something cool and new.

It never hurts to just play around an experiment, and once you learn what to do and what not to do, it's easier. Learn at your own level, basically.

So I'm sticking with Poser, and still enjoy using it and creating images. Yes, there are tools that are mandatory for Poser usage (many of which Smith Micro was smart enough to buy out and include in Poser 8). I love using anything by PhilC or Bagginsbill or Dimension3D and Semideau. There's also ShaderSpider over at DAZ that moves things along in the Material room (and, I think, Dimension3D has a similiar program available).

I'm still no expert after nearly 3 or 4 years, but I can at least fake it :)

-- Jeff

Don't stop with Poser. Move on up to 3dsMax or Maya.

Quote - Don't stop with Poser. Move on up to 3dsMax or Maya.

Sure. I'd love to. I can't afford Maya or 3DSMax. Neither can most hobbyists. I'm saving up for modo atm - that's about the upper limit of what I can afford.

For a hobbyist program, at the price Poser's a pretty awesome deal, particularly when you consider how feature-rich and extensible it really is.

All 3D softwares need a bit of reflexion, "Art" button dont exist ... When i see what P8 can do and when i see what certain person do with it they need to return to P4 ...

D3D's tools are the best.
I think the material needs less math. Set it up like Photoshop nodes and less like a math class, jmo.

*...Blender, it must be said, has never crashed on me, not once.

Could be re-written as "It's amazing how stable most other programs are"

*I have no intention of giving up on Poser. By now the investment (in time and money) is too great... 

Stick with it because I couldn't. Lack of stability, imprecise documentation, a dusty Runtime full of objects that were so "must have" at the time. Over time there were several small steps which started me down the dark path, but I feel that things like material room knowledge does transfer from one program to another, that math is useful (went back to city college and took Algebra, Trig and Calculus just for 3D and everything is a lot clearer) and that I'm constantly analyzing motion arcs, facial features and material properties - now can I say "that's why that looks the way it does".

I didn't have to give up the content. Most of it (except characters) still works, plus I'm a pretty fast modeler so I don't mind. 

Budget doesn't allow me to move on to 3dsMax or Maya. If anything, I might move back to Blender for some purposes.

Other programs that I have purchased that have been most useful:

Gliftex Pro  from Ransen software- for creating tiling fabric designs. A great value, extremely useful and a lot of fun. I don't see people referring to it here, I wonder why.

Genetica Pro from Spiralgraphics, also for tiling textures. This purchase probably arose from my failure to understand the material room, but it has almost immediately increased the scope of what I can do. Poser purists would probably not approve.

Bryce I got as a birthday present and I find it great for making background images.

I am learning through chatting with two of the greatest Poser minds we have in our community that creating realistic-looking (and to some degree, perhaps, realistic-acting) materials is a judicious blend of maths and art. You can do just so much with maths alone, and just so much with textures and effects alone. Like Replicand, I'm learning Algebra with 3D as my primary motivator, but I'm also studying the shaders behind some of the most compelling works I've purchased. Getting a grip on both of these approaches is going to make the difference in my renders.

Above all, let's make sure we have fun doing this. Me, I'm a bit past that: I'm obsessed.

Yeah, so textures are going to play a role, here. Hmmmm, Genetica... I had looked at that, actually, Nanette. I'm learning Kamilche's Stitch Witch (I'm going to need crutches to carry my brain around, soon ... lol) in order to do some re-texturing of some of the clothing I've bought in the past, so Genetica might prove interesting.

I have just been re-texturing clothes with Corel PhotoPaint. The Kamilche product looks interesting, please let us know how you find it. I see it is being hosted by PhilC now, but I can't seem to find out the price.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/stitch-witch-1?item=8201&_m=d

Thanks Raven. Google led me up the garden path. It seems a nice tool, and well priced.

I certainly agree with the general theme about Poser.  One can do quick out-of-the box modeling within a couple of hours without getting discouraged.  Additionally, experiment, experiment, experiment is the key.

The Poser 8 manual and tutorial are quite good, but you got to give them a try.  The more you experiment, the more they make sense.  These manuals cannot be read via the Evelyn Wood speed reading course-if you try it you will have a painful death (every sentence is important and skimming is not recommended).

As for the characters, folks need to give them a try and make up your own mind.  Personally, I like both DAZ and Poser models equally.  Its basically what one prefers eg GM products vs Ford vs foreign imports.

As for upgrading to Maya, etc. they are the industrial standards for graphic arts and professional folks and you talk about manuals and the learning curves for those puppies.  For most of us, its a slow painful death learning it--sort of like learning Calculus and higher math.
Doing well in those programs is a gift like making a billion dollars golfing.  Yeah I'm envious of Maya etc folks.  Jan  

Uhm... I have proof it does exist

:oP

slowly pokes Laurie....

"Easily create 3d ...etc." That is just a lie."

I have an idea...Download Blender its free
http://www.blender.org/
and its just like many Highend 3d apps far more advanced than Poser.

Model a human figure, Texture it in Gimp2 http://www.gimp.org/downloads/
Rigg and pose it in Blender, then render it in Yafaray http://www.yafaray.org/download

Then come back and tell us how easy Poser is to use. It is practically a make art button compared to all other Industry tools. Who ever told you that 3d art is easy?

LOL, I did download Blender, examined it for a week with Excedrin and coffee, and deleted it.  Same with Truespace, deleted it.

Making human models from scratch via Maya, etc, went to Books-a-Million sought out a book on Maya, examined it and quietly placed it back on the shelf.  

ZBrush, haven't seen a book on  that one yet, saw a tut in 3D World Magazine  looks similiar to one of my Calculus courses, also quietly opened another page on something else.

Bottom line, until I can do better, I'm not critizing any model built by the talents at SM or DAZ.
Like I stated before, I can flip dials on both to make my dream girls.

Yep Wespose, it tain't all that easy.  Jan

Good topic. I have also been using Poser 7 for about 13 months for a comic book and in that time I have rendered about 2600 images. So my priority is to be able to crank out lots of decent action and dialog images rather than spending days trying to make that one beautiful image while mastering the mathematical puzzles behind it. While many will disagree with me, this is what I've learned for what I need out of Poser:

1. Pose and Material tab only, everything else is inefficient or too time consuming.

2. Some Python scripts are good like the skin shaders I avoid any of the internal Poser effects like motion blur and dynamic clothing. I find them poor and resource heavy.

3. Lighting is the key - make things bright and the details come alive. Whoever invented the default Poser lighting needs to be reprimanded.

4. I avoid shadows and raytracing. Yes, they do look beautiful but when you need to render a few dozen images over a weekend, I just cannot wait for Firefly to chug along for 10 minutes (I have a quad core). I save these additional effects for special layouts, atmospheric scenes and covers.

5. Don't waste your time posing...buy a lot of pose packs and then tweak to suit you.

6. Don't mess around with pokethroughs. It's often better just to make the offending body part invisible.

7. Overlay, overlay, overlay. Saving poser images as background transparent png files is your friend. 4 figures should be the absolute limit for any Poser render and with textures being 4000x4000 these days, that may even drop to 2 or 3. If you're making busy scenes, you need to overlay composite images...Poser will die otherwise.

8. Postwork is the key. Anything you get out of Poser needs to be reworked to give the "wow" effect. Buy some Photoshop actions or make them yourself. This is the difference to me between an average render and a great one.

9. Best place to buy content is here. Another site beginning with D is generally too expensive for what you get and CP needs to pick up their game in terms of their website and the content they offer.

This thread caught my eye and the opening post applies to other newbies like myself, I've been using Poser about 5 months now;

1.  It is not easy. No matter how often they say it in the advertisements, it is not easy....

Yes but isn't that always the way? These professional programs will take time to learn and I find it is one step of achievement at a time.

2.  The computer specs in the promotional material are not enough to give you a trouble-free Poser experience. You are going to have to upgrade your computer, probably again and again.

Amen to that.
 
3.  It "kind of" works. The pictures you see in promotional renders are not what you will be producing Not for a very long time...

I don't expect to. I work in a totally different trade and can't hope to be able to produce the work that the people here can. Many of them either work in that environment or just dedicate a lot of their time to it, and it shows in their work. Some of just just make do with a couple of hours a week experimenting.

4.  Having bought Poser and committed some time to it, you are going to find that there are a number of other things you desperately want...

Yes and there is so much of it scattered around, it isn't always easy to find but well worth it when you do.

5.  Having acquired the content, you are going to need storage, lots of it. External hard drives to the rescue.

Yes, I learned that a long time ago. Never keep it all on Drive C!

6.  The documentation that came with the program is only starting to make sense now. Written by experts for experts, it went over my head.

After this few months I am finding myself going back to the reference manual frequently and things that didn't make any sense to me months ago are slowly falling into place. So that has to be some progress. The Poser manual actually has most of the answers, it just takes time for them to make sense. The people here who know their stuff fill in the blanks for us when we get stuck on something.

So here I am. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for when I bought the program. My ambitious plans have been scaled down, and scaled down again. But I am still at it, and still learning.

We never stop learning really, and so long as we can learn we are making progress. It might not be rapid progress, but any progress is a good thing. 

Quote - Good topic. ...So my priority is to be able to crank out lots of decent action and dialog images rather than spending days trying to make that one beautiful image while mastering the mathematical puzzles behind it. While many will disagree with me...,

I will cede that comic books and animations have different goals, but "mastering the mathematical puzzles behind it it"? True, I'm a not a comic fan or fanatic, but I have always assumed that they're well suited for visual impact = action poses + great materials = math.

1. ... I avoid any of the internal Poser effects like motion blur and dynamic clothing. I find them poor and resource heavy.

Poor and resource heavy, true. As far as motion blur is concerned, very few action photographers feature perfectly still and sharp figures. I mean shooting with a shutter speed of 1/4000 could have a "look" though probably not the norm.

1. I avoid shadows and raytracing. Yes, they do look beautiful but when you need to render a few dozen images over a weekend, I just cannot wait for Firefly to chug along for 10 minutes (I have a quad core). 

Avoid raytracing, I could see that under certain circumstances. Avoid shadows? Bad juju. (whispers) there are other raytracers which does shadows and motion blur in less time than Poser renders. I'm just saying.

1. Don't waste your time posing...buy a lot of pose packs and then tweak to suit you.

One good animation book and a mirror = 1,000,000 purchased poses, though that's a personal opinion.

1. Overlay, overlay, overlay.

Compositing, compositing, compositing. ToMAto, toMaHto.
 
Saving poser images as background transparent png files is your friend. 4 figures should be the absolute limit for any Poser render and with textures being 4000x4000 these days, that may even drop to 2 or 3. If you're making busy scenes, you need to overlay composite images...Poser will die otherwise.

Since nature is inifinitely complex, I don't thing I could ever settle for using 2 - 4 figures per scene, even with compositing / overlays. Clearly there is a better solution, somewhere.

1. Postwork is the key. Anything you get out of Poser needs to be reworked to give the "wow" effect. Buy some Photoshop actions or make them yourself. This is the difference to me between an average render and a great one.

I agree, a little sweeting never hurts. G.I.G.O. Lights and composition go a loooooooong way.

1. Best place to buy content is here. Another site beginning with D is generally too expensive for what you get and CP needs to pick up their game in terms of their website and the content they offer.

Of course, you can't buy from here without visiting the D from time to time. Not good, not bad; just the reality.

Yes, the overlaying part is true. I need to make scenes with several characters, and they need to be dressed. So overlaying is the answer.

@wespose: Who told me Poser would be easy? Smith Micro did. My fault for believing them.
Blender is my modelling program and I actually use it a lot. I may go back to it eventually for rendering and such, but not now.  I never had any intention of building a figure from scratch. Clothes and props yes, not figures. That would be insane.

Quote -
It irks me though, when I see the Poser 8 ads: "Easily create 3d ...etc." That is just a lie, classic marketing or not.  If they mentioned realising your creative fantasies, challenging yourself and having a small personal triumph every day, that would be true.

Amen ROFL
I have been attempting to learn since the release of Poser 6.
I'm still on Poser 6 and whilst it has been a struggle it has also been fun most of the time :)

Has stitch witch been updated since it moved to Daz?

Still learning - and there's lots more to master.
But it keeps me happy and, I think, creative.

Whoops sorry, that highlight wasn't the best of ideas. Here is the post again;

1. It is not easy. No matter how often they say it in the advertisements, it is not easy....

Yes but isn't that always the way? These professional programs will take time to learn and I find it is one step of achievement at a time.

2.  The computer specs in the promotional material are not enough to give you a trouble-free Poser experience. You are going to have to upgrade your computer, probably again and again.

*Amen to that.
* 
3.  It "kind of" works. The pictures you see in promotional renders are not what you will be producing Not for a very long time...

I don't expect to. I work in a totally different trade and can't hope to be able to produce the work that the people here can. Many of them either work in that environment or just dedicate a lot of their time to it, and it shows in their work. Some of us just make do with a couple of hours a week experimenting.

4.  Having bought Poser and committed some time to it, you are going to find that there are a number of other things you desperately want...

Yes and there is so much of it scattered around, it isn't always easy to find but well worth it when you do.

5.  Having acquired the content, you are going to need storage, lots of it. External hard drives to the rescue.

Yes, I learned that a long time ago. Never keep it all on Drive C!

6.  The documentation that came with the program is only starting to make sense now. Written by experts for experts, it went over my head.

After this few months I am finding myself going back to the reference manual frequently and things that didn't make any sense to me months ago are slowly falling into place. So that has to be some progress. The Poser manual actually has most of the answers, it just takes time for them to make sense. The people here who know their stuff fill in the blanks for us when we get stuck on something.

So here I am. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for when I bought the program. My ambitious plans have been scaled down, and scaled down again. But I am still at it, and still learning.

*We never stop learning really, and so long as we can learn we are making progress. It might not be rapid progress, but any progress is a good thing.

 The documentation that came with the program is only starting to make sense now. Written by experts for experts, it went over my head.

*After this few months I am finding myself going back to the reference manual frequently and things that didn't make any sense to me months ago are slowly falling into place. So that has to be some progress. The Poser manual actually has most of the answers, it just takes time for them to make sense. The people here who know their stuff fill in the blanks for us when we get stuck on something. <<<<

*Thanks for that!  During the last year I've been helping with the Poser documentaiton. Granted, we can't all be experts at everything but after going over the Reference Manual with a fine-toothed comb, most everything is in there. Yes, some of it needs to be fleshed out more, but it's slowly getting better and better.

The Tutorial Manual still needs some work getting it up to the current century (LOL), but it's getting some love too.

I agree with Nannette, they do tend to lead you on. I think it's bad that they have the pic of the gal in the magazine, yet no way would a new user be able to do that when they first get Poser 8. Let's face it, they are all about getting into your wallet, and once they have your money they really have no further use for you until the next version.
Flame on, doesn't change my day in the least.

 I haven´t check, but is Poser 8´s tutorial still that of clown? That would be really funny.

Quote - I agree with Nannette, they do tend to lead you on. I think it's bad that they have the pic of the gal in the magazine, yet no way would a new user be able to do that when they first get Poser 8. Let's face it, they are all about getting into your wallet, and once they have your money they really have no further use for you until the next version.
Flame on, doesn't change my day in the least.

I can't think of any graphics software that shows art by new users in their advertisements.

Quote -  I haven´t check, but is Poser 8´s tutorial still that of clown? That would be really funny.

At this point yes ... needs a bit of rework, yes? 8-)

Quote - So here I am. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for when I bought the program. My ambitious plans have been scaled down, and scaled down again. But I am still at it, and still learning.

I started with Poser 4 and some high lofty ambitions to make a CGI Lost In Space movie. To date I have maybe 60 seconds worth of animation for it! I'm up to Poser 8!

Quote - @wespose: Who told me Poser would be easy? Smith Micro did. My fault for believing them.
Blender is my modelling program and I actually use it a lot. I may go back to it eventually for rendering and such, but not now.  I never had any intention of building a figure from scratch. Clothes and props yes, not figures. That would be insane.

Hi Nanette... I actually found this post a bit amusing... please don't take offence, because it certainly isn't meant that way. SM advertised Poser would be easy, and you found the contrary to be true. However, NO one told you Blender was going to be easy, and you seem to find it quite usable. I'm contrasting that with the usual bleats and groans about Blender's "impossible" interface.

I found Blender a bit daunting at first. I found Poser a bit daunting at first. I use both of them a lot. I'm just glad no one told me Blender was a walk in the park... I would have chalked up my struggles to me being too dumb and would have stopped using it. People did say Blender was a bit different but to stick with it and it would grow on me. Perhaps SM might use the same strategy with Poser.

But then, how many copies would they sell?

 It's a strange argument, really. As I see it, most people don't know what Poser does when they first learn about it. Since most of Poser's users aren't familiar with modelling, it's hard for them to understand a significant number of its functions, even after spending a decent amount of time learning it.
If I was to compare this program to another, I wouldn't compare it to Max, or Blender, or Wings3D. It's much more similar to a game editor. Anyone who has played around with such an editor recognizes the similarities; the main one being that you don't actually construct anything, you just put some things together and voila, instant 3D!
From this perspective, MicroSmith and E Frontier are correct. Poser is indeed the application for the person who wants to create someting during his spare time and doesn't have the urge to get into the whole 3D chapter.
Still, that same person has to face the sort of terminology and technical issues that 3D artists encounter, and the only helping hand is that of the community. From this point of view, Poser is not easy. Still though, it's miles away from having to learn how to model, texture, animate, light, render, etc.

That said, Smith Micro did a good job, I wouldn't say they fooled -or attempted to fool- anyone. So the only actual concern of a Poser user is the ease and speed of learning what needs to be learned. My opinion is that, instead of searching throughout the net, almost randomly, for tutorials that aren't guaranteed to exist, the user can pay a few extra bucks and get a full tutorial series from a professional site. I'd consider this to be a standard procedure for any new program that one wants to be serious about.

The only part of Poser's promotion that may be misguiding, is the one about animation. No, you cannot animate within Poser. Lacking the proper tools, it is neither fast, nor efficient in that aspect, although it does provide a very good starting point, with the figures already rigged and the facial morphs made easy. I believe they could and should have done a better job with this part. Still, with enough practice, something decent may come out of it (like Monty Oum's Dead Fantasy, do check it out in Youtube, it's a great job).

In the end, Poser is exactly what its name suggests, a tool that provides easy posing for figures and the extra option to add more assets to a scene. Nothing more, nothing less.

My only question is, will a decent version of Poserfusion come out for Poser8? Because the one that came with Pro (and it's 1.2 upgrade as well) are extremely troublesome and limited.

Just my 2 cents on the matter :)

Quote - > Quote - I agree with Nannette, they do tend to lead you on. I think it's bad that they have the pic of the gal in the magazine, yet no way would a new user be able to do that when they first get Poser 8...

I can't think of any graphics software that shows art by new users in their advertisements.

It would probably be commercial suicide if they did. ;)

I think if Poser would get any easier it would become boring. I mean, all we do now is load figures, conform, pose, play with lights and render, there is no modeling, rigging, texturing. I know there's a great deal of information to digest, but that only determines how good is your outcome, not if you can or can not get results fast.

So I don't think no one is lying when saying Poser IS very easy. Not easy as open the program and make art, but certainly easier than attempting a Victoria 4 clone from scratch and get to the render part in a week or two.

Attached Link: Poser Open Feedback Form

Thank you all for contributing.  This entire thread was filled with great feedback about the learning curve of the app, the awesome long term relationships users create with the application, and the tools and resources that are needed to support that relationship. 

Rather than have us here in the graphics group continue to craft survey questions that may not address all the things someone may want to communicate about their experience with the product, (and in order to carry some of the really valuable feedback from these forums to the internal teams in a compiled place,) I would like to invite anyone who has ANY feedback, suggestions, comments or concerns about the product, their experience with it, or whatever the 2 cents about Poser may be that needs to be heard by the teams....to go ahead and use this form to submit your feedback using this link over the next 3 weeks:  https://retro.contentparadise.com/phpQ/fillsurvey.php?sid=72

Feedback is anonymous, and very appreciated.  Please don't think someone else will speak for you, or assume someone else will share your same 2 cents...this is really your chance to let us know what's in your head and heart regarding the product that we all feel so passionately about! 

Thank you bunches!

Tori Porter
Smith Micro Productivity & Graphics

Nice to see you here! When will the pro beta version be ready?

Thanks Tori, it is nice to see someone from SM taking an interest here.

Thanks Tori and the rest of you folks at SM for taking a strong interest and being active members in our forums-- we really appreciate it.  Jan  

Thanks to all of you for being active users.  ;-)   I just turned 9 years with Poser in September, and I can honestly say, I've never been more excited for a year than I am about 2010, and the team we have behind this product right now!  AND I'm really excited about recently being given some opportunities to have and facilitate more conversations with the communities about the next steps for the graphics division, and Poser is always going to be dearest to my heart, so I'm starting here, and this was the best way I could think to start...but I'm open to suggestions (hey, via the form!) on ways we can more engage those conversations.  

I'm really enjoying the responses, and hope that people continue to use the form to share all the things that get lost in the threads here, but never really get communicated directly to the more internal teams who are busy building like bees.  We'll be posting the link to the form around where we can to hopefully get as many responses as we can.  It's really important (to me) that people step up and say what they want to say here, because people are listening, and I want to take this very golden chance to get your feedback passed on.

Now, I know there are more opinions about Poser than we've gotten responses so...go...go...think of it as your Poser confessional, your personal wish box, tell us the one thing you want that you feel like no one else does, what do need want or not care about, let it be your soap box, your chance to sound off about your history, your disappointments, your giant wins and your silent defeats...what can you be patient with in Poser, and what drives you nuts?  What's the one thing you wish you could really ask the developers and know from them?  What are the answers and solutions you aren't getting from the application or the company?  What do you want from us, the teams, the product...get where I'm going here?  ;-)

Thank you.  And thank you again!