Quote - Speaking of magnets for shoes - I always thought Antonia's feet are a little strange. I'd magnet away the flipper-like outside edge, and the bunion, instead of morphing the shoes.

That's what happens when I use myself as the model and try to extrapolate. :laugh:

Besides, if you've always thought so, then why haven't you told me? Do you think we're having this thread here for fun? :mad:

()

You had so much stuff to do, I figured it was very low on the priorities. Like, get those new,smaller eyes not to poke through the eyelids.

You mentioned that they are not spherical. I know real eyes aren't either, but what's the point? You should make them spherical and then they will rotate without problems.

I'm just about done with Poser Pro 2010 development, so maybe I'll have time to re-visit my version of the eye. Remember I was waiting till you made her eye socket smaller, before finishing.

Quote - You mentioned that they are not spherical. I know real eyes aren't either, but what's the point? You should make them spherical and then they will rotate without problems.

Well, as a first approximation, it's usually a good idea to stay as close to reality as is feasible. I thought without the slightly protruding cornea they would look strange when looked at from the side. But you've studied this much more than I have, so if you say spherical eyes are okay, I won't argue against it.

I'm not saying the corea should not bulge. It should. Don't worry about that. If the eyelids have proper up-down morphs, they move out of the way.

I'm referring to the sclera. The poke through demonstrated earlier was the sclera, passing through the outer corner of the eyelids.

Quote - I'm not saying the corea should not bulge. It should. Don't worry about that. If the eyelids have proper up-down morphs, they move out of the way.

That they will (eventually).

Quote - I'm referring to the sclera. The poke through demonstrated earlier was the sclera, passing through the outer corner of the eyelids.

Okay, clearly we are talking about different poke-throughs here. That one was just a fluke in an earlier version of the cr2 that I uploaded, which had the old, larger eyes in the smaller eye-sockets. The sclera is and always has been spherical.

Quote -
Can I ask if you used seperate groups in the mesh for the left and right thighs? I have mine set that way at present, but I am wondering if, since those groups are so small on my shorts, I might be able to make the whole mesh one group, as hip2. I like to keep things simple if they work. Could you point me to the thread of a week ago that you mentioned, it sounds like I should read it.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2793867

Here's the earlier thread.  It was actually about some joint and JCM problems I had with the garment, because of the inset and capped geometries at the legs.  I think the conclusion I reached in the thread isn't quite right.  The inset geometry was presumably affected more by the joint zones, because the vertices were closer to the center of the zones.  The JCM distortion was probably because Morphing Clothes didn't transfer the JCM's as effectively for the inset areas.

My garment doesn't have any thigh geometries, just the hip and hip2.  Which probably made development a bit easier.  My shorts are actually shorter than Antonia's hip2 leg portions.

I've uploaded the shorts for Antonia.  Feel free to alter them in whatever way makes them most useful to you.  I hope someone can find some use from the garment.

She's fun to play with...

I used a V4 dynamic dress scaled down a bit.  The pose is based on one of the universal poses from Poser 8, which worked well except for the wrists, which had very painful looking 'swing' angles.

I'm looking forward to some expression morphs..

That's a nice render, WandW. The only thing I find slightly disturbing is how the feet are oriented in relation to the hip. One could certainly stand like that, but it doesn't seem very natural or comfortable.

I'll have to go and experiment with dynamic clothes some more. It looks like a lot of fun.

Hi odf,

My daughter commented on the feet as well.  It's not obvious from the angle, but she's standing on a slight slope, which accounts for the position of her feet , but you are right; her left knee is probably taking some unnecessary strain...

Strange issue...I see at least wolfie is running DS3, but upon trying to load Antonia myself, she's coming in with the eyes and jaws just in front of the face.  Is this a known issue?

Moving each piece back about one unit seems to put things about where they should be, but I haven't yet zoomed in really close to see the exact position or if the size may be incorrect as well.  Figured I'd check in here first before trying to go into detail.  The positions of the eyes and jaws are listed at 0,0,0 so trying to reset to zero changes nothing.

Hm.  Imported the OBJ and that comes in with correct positions.  I'm stumped.  :huh:

P6 is loading her fine.  Reinstalling Antonia and restarting Studio made no change.  I know Studio isn't officially supported but I'm hoping somebody's got ideas.

Yeah, I see the same thing in DS 3 (3.0.1.135, to be precise), but in DS 2.3 everything is okay. Weird!

Unfortunately I have no clue about Studio. Maybe we need to upgrade? If someone finds a fix, let me know!

Addendum...since I'm no longer allowed to edit?  That's one way to waste server space...

Studio 2.3 is loading the same cr2 perfectly fine.  Must investigate further...

Okay.  Saving from DS2 then opening the DS2 scene in DS3 did wonders.  DS2 Antonia looks fine there, but DS3 Antonia's rig is a mess from the neck up.  Joint to the head is totally out of whack, while the collar down is fine.  Didn't see that until I had the proper rig in the same scene.  It's almost like the bones are too long.  I see now that the materials are failing to read in, too.  DS3 Antonia's surfaces look just like an OBJ import.

Will see next about exporting the figure to a new cr2 from DS3.
_ _ _

Thanks odf.  At least that confirms I'm not doing something wrong.

There's a time limit on edits. I guess whoever wrote the server software must have read 1984.

Quote - The tank-top is superb and I'd love to see more textures for it.

As of last count, there were close to two hundred textures available.  ForbiddenWhispers is responsible for over a hundred of those.

I've also included a unique texture with each release of the tank top.  They all share the same UV-mapping, so textures for one will work on any other.  Even extreme cases like the Lycanthropos and Hatchling Dragon versions.

goes texture-hunting

By the way, can I put a link to your tank top on Antonia's page?

Feel free.

CR2 Exporter seems to produce a cr2 that works in DS3.  Would you like me to upload it so you can check it out?

Quote - CR2 Exporter seems to produce a cr2 that works in DS3.  Would you like me to upload it so you can check it out?

Edit: actually, since I have DS3 myself, I'll just try to reproduce what you did.

No problemo.  :)

I would very much like that refit of the tank top, as well as other available accessories.  Are they only on the dev site or buried somewhere in the thread?

I've got to reiterate what everybody's saying about your joints.  They look splendid so far and you seem to be progressing faster (and with less people!) than either big figure foundry (DAZ / Poser's owner-of-the-week) has to date.  I'm sure it helped that you had their work to compare to, but it's still a fine accomplishment.

I'm way past my bedtime...see everybody later!

ODF,

Are Antonia's actor cuts finalized?  I guess another way of putting it is; does the current version contain all the actors the final version will contain?

• Mike

Quote - > Quote - The tank-top is superb and I'd love to see more textures for it.

As of last count, there were close to two hundred textures available.  ForbiddenWhispers is responsible for over a hundred of those.

I've also included a unique texture with each release of the tank top.  They all share the same UV-mapping, so textures for one will work on any other.  Even extreme cases like the Lycanthropos and Hatchling Dragon versions.

Two hundred textures!? Blimey! If you could provide a link for at least one I could maybe find the others.

CHEERS!

PS (I don't have access to the developer site.)

You guys always get busiest when I'm away!

I couldn't get in here earlier. I'm pleased that at least some shorts are now available for her and they'll look good with diffuse colours alone for now. I hope Ian can release his though. Hopefully once she gets more support then maybe folk like 9MBI will make stuff for her, they do nice dresses and shoes.

Keep the development coming folks, Antonia 121 is amazing enough so the final version will be nothing short of phenomenal. Look out Victoria, your crown isn't as safe as you think!

CHEERS!

Quote - ODF,

Are Antonia's actor cuts finalized?  I guess another way of putting it is; does the current version contain all the actors the final version will contain?

• Mike

Does "almost certainly" work fo you? :laugh:

Quote - Two hundred textures!? Blimey! If you could provide a link for at least one I could maybe find the others.

Here are a few, for starters:

ForbiddenWhispers
Azhrarn
3-DArena
SetoKaiba
DarkAngelGrafics
Inception8
-Silver- and Inception8
EllPro
68fordfalcon

Quote - Yeah, I see the same thing in DS 3 (3.0.1.135, to be precise), but in DS 2.3 everything is okay. Weird!

Unfortunately I have no clue about Studio. Maybe we need to upgrade? If someone finds a fix, let me know!

I am running 3.0.1.144 and the beta version 3.0.1.36 and am not experiencing any problems with Antonia.

Sarge

This is the conforming clothing I'm working on for Antonia.  I'm still working on the JCMs.  Does anyone has any great "easy" idea about making JCM?

Quote - Does anyone has any great "easy" idea about making JCM?

I made mine with the assistance of Poser's cloth room and morph brush.

I wouldn't describe it as an "easy" process, but after doing so repeatedly for several Victoria items (each with dozens of morphs), it becomes "routine", albeit tedious.

You may be able to get a head start on them by transferring Antonia's JCM's using Morphing Clothes.

I'm tinkering with a skin shader and some makeup overlays.  I know it's not VSS, more of a stylized look.  Is it too garish?  I've never been any good at judging the effectiveness of my skin shaders.  :lol:

That's pretty cool Cage, looks like Annette something (Funechello?) from those 60's beach movies.

er what was that actress name from the 60's surfer movies?

I forgot to comment on the foot shapes vs. shoes issue:

Antonia's feet are modeled standing on the floor. Well, not quite, as I didn't make the undersides of the soles as flat as they'd have to be, but the basic shape is for standing, not floating in the air or lying on the couch. Personally, I think they look great when she's standing, but tastes differ.

Obviously, there need to be morphs for a relaxed shape, which will probably also work quite decently for certain kinds of shoes. You may ask why I didn't make the relaxed shape the default, and frankly, I couldn't say. But I guess it seemed more natural to me seeing as I modeled her standing.

bagginsbill, since you don't like the shape of feet standing on the floor, I take it you carry your wife everywhere. But seriously, you were spot on: Antonia's feet need to be adjusted to her shoes, not the other way round.

I made the first tiny step toward the 0.9.122 release today: someone noted that the init values for the leg rotations (thighs, shins and feet, actually) were not at 0 in the cr2s. I suspect this is probably a remnant from the old default pose, which was optimized for IK. I don't know if that was responsible for the problems some people had with conforming clothes, but at any rate, it will be fixed from the next version on.

I'll try to make some donor cr2s as templates for rigging clothes next. At one point I had a link with instructions on what to include, but the site doesn't answer. So anyone with experience in that field, just holler at me and let me know what you need. I'll write a script to generate the donor cr2s automatically, so I can make a whole bunch for all common types of clothing.

LD: Thanks for those links, that'll keep me going for a while!

Amy: Great looking clothing there, very much equivalent to Basicwear for V4.

Cage: They look great, they definitely have that pin-up feel to them.

ODF: Are the Toni Polygon textures the final ones or are you going to do more UV work on later versions?

CHEERS!

The UVs are my final word. Textures are of course never final, though. I vaguely remember how I once planned to create materials completely based on hand-painted texture maps for Antonia.

That's good to know, that at least means that anything Saintfox does will always work.

CHEERS!

Cage,  The one on the right looks like Wendy Padbury  ( Zoe ) to me. Not that I've ever seen her like that, ( sadly  ;-) ), but the face and hairstyle look spot on.

odf, 
I mentioned the joints not being zeroed, but I was able to work around it so please don't change it on my account. It's not a problem at all, unless you try to use Antonia's cr2 as a base for conforming clothes, and even then its easily fixed with a minor text edit. A developers cr2, or even just existing Antonia's cr2 with the joint rotations set to zero would be fine for making conforming clothing from. 

Work on my version of the shorts is progressing. Currently they conform well, but there is poke through when Antonia goes into acrobatics . I think I made them rather tight so there is not much leeway for accomodating any shape difference in the jcm and joint bends between Antonia and the shorts. Currently they work ok up to about a 22 degree kick, and spread seems to be covered. I will work on them a while longer, and post them on Sharecg . Even if they still have some issues at that point, at least others can improve them. I hope to post them within the week.

Cheers

Ian

Just put in the readme and description that there might be issues with certain poses, I'm sure most folks will go away happy. I look forward to them anyway.

CHEERS!

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to Antonia. I really like her.  :)

Antonia doesn't have any of those problems in DS3 for me (3.0.1.142, 3.0.1.144 & the new beta 3.1.0.36 in both 32 & 64 bit versions), she does suffer from the dreaded "black polygon" though, as there are several on her finger tips, in both low poly and the full version.forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php

@ amy, if you have DS3A you can use the "Morph Follower" feature, but it doesn't see the ERC code so that part has to be done by hand.

Quote - That's pretty cool Cage, looks like Annette something (Funechello?) from those 60's beach movies.
er what was that actress name from the 60's surfer movies?

That was the actress, but I'm actually working toward Yvonne Craig.  I've had such struggles, with her face.  I thought I was close now, having used dvd vidcaps rather than promo photos for reference.  Perhaps I should look more closely at whether there really is a resemblance.  :unsure:

Quote - Cage: They look great, they definitely have that pin-up feel to them.

Ooh, thank you.  I do like the effect, but it seems like it could be too loud.  I'll keep tinkering with the shader.

Quote - Cage,  The one on the right looks like Wendy Padbury  ( Zoe ) to me. Not that I've ever seen her like that, ( sadly  ;-) ), but the face and hairstyle look spot on.

Absolutely correct!  :woot:  Thank you.  I'll stop considering any sweeping changes to the composition of the Zoe face and study details.  Something about her eyes still looks funny to me, compared to Wheel in Space vidcaps, although that may not be evident from the small image above.

Quote - I made the first tiny step toward the 0.9.122 release today: someone noted that the init values for the leg rotations (thighs, shins and feet, actually) were not at 0 in the cr2s. I suspect this is probably a remnant from the old default pose, which was optimized for IK. I don't know if that was responsible for the problems some people had with conforming clothes, but at any rate, it will be fixed from the next version on.

I'll try to make some donor cr2s as templates for rigging clothes next. At one point I had a link with instructions on what to include, but the site doesn't answer. So anyone with experience in that field, just holler at me and let me know what you need. I'll write a script to generate the donor cr2s automatically, so I can make a whole bunch for all common types of clothing.

I don't know if scaling issues might be good for an update.  I've noted some joint issues with the neck when it's scaled on Y, which can be corrected with a morph.  (What do you call a morph linked to a scale dial?  SCM?  TCM?  Hmm.)

I was playing with the old Poser 4 Figure Height settings on Antonia the other day, and she handled remarkably well, except for the collar scaling.  When the collars are scaled, the arms go funny.  I'm not sure whether such a concern is of any importance for Antonia, but I mention it just to pass along my observations.  I haven't found it to be a problem, certainly.

Quote -
Work on my version of the shorts is progressing. Currently they conform well, but there is poke through when Antonia goes into acrobatics . I think I made them rather tight so there is not much leeway for accomodating any shape difference in the jcm and joint bends between Antonia and the shorts. Currently they work ok up to about a 22 degree kick, and spread seems to be covered. I will work on them a while longer, and post them on Sharecg . Even if they still have some issues at that point, at least others can improve them. I hope to post them within the week.

Where do they poke through, with the kick?

Are you going to release your characters when they're done? When the final version is out I'll definitely be doing some character morphs for her.

CHEERS!

I'll definitely release them when they're done, yes. 

The Barbara character is probably more recognizable in her mask.  I'll have to look at the source images again.  I think her jawline might need some work.... 

And I'll stop spamming the thread now. 

Great job on the Zoe, the eyes look fine to me but I dont have a picture of Wendy in front of me to compare.  Maybe we could make a silvery catsuit and boots for her;-), but for now I'm starting simple with the shorts.  Yes the poke through I am getting on the shorts is with the 'kick' and I include a picture here, this is at -35 degrees kick now,so things are a little improved from yesterday. The poke through gets worse as the angle increases. It may be that I have the jcm set wrong. This is my first ever try at jcm so I'm learning something. 

I agree with Rogerbee1, I hope you release the character morphs, especially the Wendy one.
If you made a Jacqueline Pearce ( Servalan ) my life would be complete ;-)

Cheers

Ian

Are you making the JCM from scratch, or working from the versions ported over using Morphing Clothes, as you mentioned earlier?  The JCM's for the thigh joints should be set to hit 1.0 when the thigh bends -60 degrees.  The same value is true for the thigh spread, but right is negative and left is positive.  So the sixty degree bend is the critical point.  Then you can just copy over the ERC for the JCM's from Antonia.

@sazzyazzca: Exactly what I need to get started with some MakeUp. I am always suffering a lot when trying to get a nice, clean eyeliner (that is in fact the perfect guide for the rest of the eye MakeUp).

Sounds like you're all making good progress. It's good to know that there will be some characters available for her and some make-up and clothing.

Once the final version is out I will definitely work on some character morphs, though nothing quite so demanding as Summer Glau this time, my versions of her for V4 really took it out of me!

CHEERS!

Cage,

Something appears to be very strange comparing your description of how the jcm would work, compared to my actual settings. I used morphing clothes to transfer the morphs. My shorts include hip2 and lThigh and rThigh, so there are three parts with jcm. They work together and the morphs match between to three parts to create a smooth transition, so the morphs in each part match each other.
The very weird thing is that I have the jcm setting at 1.0, in other words an angle of kick ( xrot ) of 35 degrees produces a morph setting of 35 It is quite possible that I have put a wrong name into the jcm or something, the strange thing is it seems to work, by which I mean it does what I expect, albeit not 100%. I tried disconnecting the jcm and I had to dial in morph values as above to achieve the same result. It is possible the morphing clothes has only copied a tiny percentage of the morph, but I don't know why it would do that.

All very confusing to me, but at least I can post here and I'm sure someone will point out where I've made a basic error or two ;-). Failing that I will post the shorts on Sharecg, and you can all have a good laugh on me ;-)

Cheers

Ian

Keep at it, you'll get there.

Failing that, there's always postwork.

CHEERS!